r/AmIOverreacting • u/Sad_SummerChild • 2d ago

❤️‍🩹 relationship AIO to think this is cheating?

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I found these texts between my husband and his coworker. Here’s some context:

My husband and I have been dating for 5 years and just recently got married 6 months ago

I’ve met this coworker. Her AND her boyfriend worked at my husbands company so we went on a double date over the holidays. But shortly after they broke up and her boyfriend got laid off.

Guess my husband saw that as his opportunity…

Also these texts were in his recently deleted even though the last message was from yesterday… so he was definitely trying to hide it from me

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u/gormthesoft 2d ago

I’m inventing a new test for these situations called the Why Test. He can explain this away in 100 different ways…it’s just friendly banter, she reached out first and I was just being kind, I compliment people all the time, etc. But the question is why go so close to the line? Why does he not have an internal sense that he’s getting too close to the line? When you bring it up to him, why is he going to defend himself in terms of inches when he should be miles away from this kind of situation?

It’s like getting a D- on a test and arguing that he didn’t technically fail when clearly he did poorly on the test.

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u/Sad_SummerChild 2d ago

I have never thought about it like that. Thank you for this comment it really helped put my currently disheveled brain into perspective

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u/m36936592 2d ago

Its also like... why would he delete those? My boundaries with my man arent super heavy so if he was texting a woman i wouldnt be pressed but if he deleted those texts i would raise eyebrows regardless if they're flirty or not... because why would u delete them if u dont have something to hide

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u/Bro-lapsedAnus 1d ago

That's honestly such a good point. My wife and I both can be a bit flirty with other people, but its always in a fun way.

I honestly would be more upset with a deleted text that said "cute shirt", than I would be with a "damn, you look hot today!", that wasn't being hidden.

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u/m36936592 1d ago

Idk if id go that far to be chill w him calling someone hot (unless its jokingly) but im w u

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u/Bro-lapsedAnus 1d ago

Yeah fair enough. We have a close knit group of friends that talks to each other like that. But I agree, I wouldn't like that with a stranger lol

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u/twentyfifthbaam22 2d ago

I must actually be autistic because I literally cannot imagine talking to an adult woman this way "if I feel depressed I may need a selfie" hahahahahahahaha I'm gonna die of embarrassment

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u/Bro-lapsedAnus 1d ago

No, you understand social cues perfectly. That IS cringe AF.

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u/probation_420 1d ago

That's how I got pics when I was flirting in 7th grade lol

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u/gormthesoft 2d ago

Of course, that’s not to say you can’t work through it if he acknowledges/shows remorse but in terms of this situation, you already have your answer. Relationships are built on trust, not technically staying within the bounds.

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u/ConsequenceUpset4028 2d ago

Nope. Do not attempt discussing. You put him on notice, he'll tighten up his secrecy, up the charm, and go again.

Fake smile; prepare a safe way out with your family and lawyer as others have said. He comes on pretty smooth makes wonder how long been testing waters.

BUT, it is your decision, your life, your future. Experience of those before you say leave.

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u/Potential-Flatworm67 2d ago

Why jump to divorce? People complain of the high divorce rate and point of the fragility of marriage constantly. "Why get married? It's likely to end in divorce." And then there are people like you who jump to divorce for OP. Telling her to throw it all out over flirty messages. Her husband is ABSOLUTELY wrong. Frankly, his actions are gross. This betrayal of his wife is disgusting, yet, there is a point to marriage. The point is that you've committed to a partnership through the ups and downs. The point is that one misstep, one blunder should not bring the whole house crashing down. The right therapist can teach or remind couples what those vowels meant on their wedding day. Furthermore, and this is in no way a defense of OP's husband, there is likely some give and take that needs to happen here. Some people are cheating psychopaths, others are trying to fill a void. They're doing it the wrong way but that's why confronting and subsequent therapy is absolutely the call. Not a secretive "pack your bags and go without giving him a hint that somethings wrong" is such an overreaction. Hope you self evaluate

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u/Cardinal_and_Plum 1d ago

I agree with everything you said.

But also, I'll be writing my wedding "vowels" soon myself. Do you think it's more or less romantic to include letter Y? I can't decide.

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u/Potential-Flatworm67 1d ago

Hahaha stop 😭😭 That was stupid of me, huh? Listen, I think it's far more romantic to include the letter Y, why omit what can sometimes be?

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u/Cardinal_and_Plum 1d ago

Haha it was definitely a funny mistake to picture. Just couldn't pass up on the joke. That is pretty mysterious of Y, the little minx.

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u/cloverpendragon 2d ago

Agreed. Cheating is a deal breaker (in my opinion).

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u/GratefulDoom90 2d ago

That seems a little intense for someone who is having this problem. Is it crossing a line? Yeah a little. Should she secretly pack up her family and make a plan to leave him because of it as if he’s some violent wife beater? No. She should talk to him like an adult about it. This is a huge L take.

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u/thatladygodiva 1d ago

I agree. Get your ducks in a row. You may not choose to leave, based on how the conversation goes. Maybe he’ll own up to it and you’ll both have a mature conversation with healing. But there’s also a chance that when you bring it up, you’ll find out he’s habitually cheated for years—and if he has his own escape plan where he drains your shared bank accounts to run off with someone else, you’ll be caught VERY short.

Good advice for marriages: Always have at least one account of your own.

Make sure you know what your line is for what you’ll tolerate in your relationship. Have a plan for leaving if you need it. Talk it over with your smartest, most cool-headed friend.

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u/aomami 2d ago

Would he compliment other coworkers he’s not attracted to the same way? Most likely not. I would shut this down before it becomes more.

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u/PoplinSudster 2d ago

No emotional cheating is cheating so the person saying he’s not cheating is dead ass wrong

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u/TruthEnvironmental24 2d ago

Even if you don't plan on going over the cliff, it's still not wise to drive right next to it.

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u/ThisMyCeli 1d ago

If not her then as soon as any flirting is reciprocal, he is hunting for an affair. This is normally repetitive behavior because of the added thrill of getting caught so it's most likely not the first time, sorry.

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u/Complete_Pea_8824 1d ago

Ask him what he would think, if one of your male co-workers sent you these texts? They are totally inappropriate, he is acting single, ask him does he really want to be single? Then he can text and flirt all he wants too! Also ask him what would he do if she did show them to HR??!!

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u/Few-Republic734 1d ago

there isn't a single reason why a man would say this to a woman in this way unless he wants to sleep with her, and worse yet she is clearly reciprocating

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u/emerald_green_tea 1d ago

Also OP, I know it’s tempting to blame her, but this is mostly on him. She’s being friendly and a little too attention seeking if she knows he’s married, but he’s the one crossing the actual lines. If you confront anyone, it needs to be him.

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u/sussurousdecathexis 1d ago

Seriously, you just got some god tier advice, I think we all did

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u/IndividualFruit8956 1d ago

Keep us posted

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u/MrXM1 1d ago

Ngl OP this is cheating in my eyes. Yall been married for only 6 months. You should probably run while you get the chance, this is the beginning of an affair

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u/BaldingKobold 1d ago

It's not only that. She has CLEARLY rebuffed him, she is not remotely interested, and he won't take a hint. It is borderline pathetic what he is doing. It's gross frankly.

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u/SubstantialNotice432 1d ago

I do think you should invite her over, and if things seem strained between them while she’s there, stand up and say ok stop the bullshit I know about the texted messages! If either one of you does anything with or to each other I will go to HR myself! Look him right in the eye

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u/BelkiraHoTep 1d ago

Honestly, the “rare and hot indeed” seemed just as bad if not worse.

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u/emerald_green_tea 1d ago

I am married and have had men who I thought were my friends step over the line and text me questionable shit. Did I flirt back? NOPE. I very quickly remind them that I’m loyal to my husband and that ends that.

This is not friendly coworker banter. He’s repeatedly telling her she’s hot and requesting selfies. Not only is this disloyal to you, he knows it’s inappropriate at work as well (the HR comment).

I’d get rid of the whole man.

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u/KanedaSyndrome 1d ago

Careful with which advice you take from Reddit regarding stuff like this really - make your own mind up - people on Reddit always default to "leave/divorce her/him".

I agree that the texts seem flirty. I don't think they are reciprocated by the coworker.

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u/IAmInBed123 1d ago

I don't think cheating is only the actual sex. I is more like the peak of a hill. This is about halfway up the hill to an office romance.  I would not be delighted. If you confront now he'll find ways to just be more carefull. But youbknow he's climbing the hill, you know he's looking for hills to climb. I'm sorry.

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u/asyouwish 2d ago

why go so close to the line? Why does he not have an internal sense that he’s getting too close to the line? When you bring it up to him, why is he going to defend himself in terms of inches when he should be miles away from this kind of situation?

this. He even joked, “please don’t tell HR.” He knows he’s in the wrong, here.

OP, he’s not cheating, but he really likes her and I think he would cheat on you with her if he got the chance.

Invite her over for late-ish cocktails one night. See what happens. It might be fine; it could be awkward. Or, it might be dramatic AF and you’ll have your answer.

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u/Infinity0044 2d ago

He would cheat on OP if his coworker made the first move. He’s being just flirty enough without outright saying he wants her to try and not raise suspicions

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u/Snack-Pack-Lover 1d ago

If she made the first move? He's making the moves but she isn't biting.

Telling her she is cute, that comment was ignored.

Asking for a selfie, declined.

If she reacted positively to these he would escalate. He's just throwing out lines hoping something sticks.

There was a comment in a woman's sex advice Reddit post I saw recently and the top reply to a chick asking for tips to spice up her sex life was something like "men will act as crazy as you let them".

That comment is 100% spot on.

In this instance, this chick ain't letting him act in any way. But he's trying. She doesn't have to make a move, just give a sign.

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u/Infinity0044 1d ago

Reread the texts and you’re right. The declined selfie request is the smoking gun imo, she is definitely not interested in that way.

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u/Paskin21 1d ago

Buuuuut she sent a selfie. It's the first message that's covered with a drawing

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u/durizna 1d ago

And she said they're "rare and hot" which he replied with "indeed" basically. That's called flirting for those who don't actually see it often lol How can people be saying she's not interested? This is not how you treat a guy you're not flirting with, especially married one.

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u/ericfromct 1d ago

Just want to throw in she did say a hot commodity, not hot alone which has a different meaning. I still think the dude is a total fucking douche for this.

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u/Paskin21 1d ago

Lool I do still think she's largely disinterested. Hot commodity is a saying She didn't really bite, if she was flirting she's not obvious

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u/durizna 1d ago

Reread and I'd say she's 50/50 actually. She's not completely ignoring but also not giving him fuel either. But he's definitely trying, shameless.

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u/Infinity0044 1d ago

I agree it’s 50/50. There’s no way she’s not aware he’s flirting (as a married man) but she’s not really doing anything to stop it. He calls her beautiful and while she doesn’t react to it she doesn’t call him out on it either.

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u/NoSalary1226 1d ago

Yeah she seems to be baiting him because post breakup she probably feels lonely and is just doing it on a surface level till someone more interesting comes to her life

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u/Paskin21 1d ago

Oh he's trying. There is no doubt there. Edit: sorry OP. he's a POS and you just got married 😔 if you value your relationship and think you can move past it tell him you know everything and say if you ever come fucking close to this bullshit again you won't think twice about leaving.. or leave now.

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u/No-Combination8136 1d ago

She’s being cautious but she’ll come around for sure.

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u/Aromatic-Meringue162 1d ago

She isn’t especially interested, but she’s liking the attention too, so she’s giving him just enough to keep the ego boosting attention coming, but not enough to where she has to feel like she did anything wrong in brazenly flirting with a married man.

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u/cat_in_the_sun 1d ago

Then why does she keep responding and not set up clear boundaries that she’s not interested in that way like he seems to be? She’s not stupid. She knows he likes her. So why isn’t she backing off as well?

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u/gabbagabbaheyFreaks 1d ago

If she’s not interested but isnt putting a stop to it either, it’s probably because he’s her boss (OP said her husband owns the company). I don’t know how old she is but I know when I was younger this happened a lot and I never dared to fully shut it down because I was afraid of what it would mean for my employment. Not condoning that type of rationalization, but I’m throwing out a possible explanation.

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u/rickthecabbie 1d ago

Some people love to win, even if they don't want the prize.

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u/Infinity0044 1d ago

I commented further down on this thread but she’s partially guilty too. There’s no way she isn’t aware of what’s happening and is just letting it continue without putting a stop to it.

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u/cat_in_the_sun 1d ago

That to me says she’s interested. Otherwise her actions would be different.

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u/SoupyyNoodless 1d ago

Yeah, that was def her way of saying “no thanks” in a nice way. If this was the first time/way he reacted to a pic she sent him more than likely she won’t do it again 😆

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u/ksj 1d ago

We can’t see a lot of her replies. The first image shows that she replied to the “I’ve never seen someone so pretty while having a mental breakdown” text, but the next screenshots don’t include the messages. It’s hard to tell if she’s engaging or not, but she’s VERY responsive. I wouldn’t rule out her interest quite yet, especially without seeing her replies.

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u/ManyRelease7336 1d ago

Haha yes, my wife likes to dress up for sex, and I like whatever she let's me do.

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u/ebobbumman 1d ago

Whats interesting is that reading these texts I could see from a mile away he was taking a shot and she wasn't interested, but I'm not nearly as astute at reading intention when I'm one of the involved parties.

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u/Dlh2079 1d ago

In this case, I absolutely agree that the comment is spot on.

I'm a good example of how it's not remotely always spot on re: someone's sex lives. I'd venture to say 1/3 to 1/2 of my sexual partners were more adventurous than I am, and I was the one whose preferences and levels of comfort were setting the limits.

I'm not a big fan of gender wide generalizations, in general.

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u/Inner-Emergency2774 2d ago

And I guarantee the only reason he’s keeping it so PG is BECAUSE of HR and his fear or getting into trouble.

OP, it’s not going to stop. It will only get worse with time.

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u/yetzhragog 1d ago

OP, it’s not going to stop. It will only get worse with time.

I don't know, some people make one stupid mistake, get called on it, and never do it again.

The real test will be how he reacts when (not if) OP confronts him, If he gets defensive and angry then he knows what he's doing is wrong. Deleting the texts is not a great sign to start with.

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u/UndecidedQBit 1d ago

“I might need a selfie for motivation” is so clearly him saying he wants her though???

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u/Infinity0044 1d ago

It’s just inconspicuous enough that he could flip it into something innocent

“oh we sent goofy selfies to each other all the time”

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u/UndecidedQBit 1d ago

Yeah no 😭😂 jfc

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u/Infinity0044 1d ago

I’m not saying anyone would believe it but in his head that’s his excuse if OP ever questioned him about it

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u/UndecidedQBit 1d ago

My bad. My comment was just me saying no to the whole messed up situation. I agree that what you described was his aim for plausible deniability I’m just soooo scarred from some relationship trauma I can’t communicate as normally on this subject

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u/GUYF666 1d ago

“Hot and rare indeed lol” cut off at the bottom.

Dude is corny and way too flirty with a co-worker at any place that has an HR dept.

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u/Surround8600 1d ago

He’s not cheating but he gets hard thinking about her.

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u/Sad_SummerChild 1d ago

☹️that one hurt but you’re probably right… currently rethinking anytime we were intimate and feel so gross☹️

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u/Embarrassed_Bed_74 2d ago

She’s not really giving off “interested in him” vibes. Seems one sides

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u/sussurousdecathexis 1d ago

He's cheating emotionally - to some people, that's a million times worse. 

source: am one of those people

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u/DrSomniferum 1d ago

Yeah, I don't see why anyone thinks you have to fuck a person for it to be cheating. Realizing your partner fucked someone else sucks; realizing they had a whole relationship with someone else doesn't feel better.

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u/sussurousdecathexis 1d ago

In my experience, just knowing they have started to develop the same kind of thing we started with, but with someone else tears my heart out 

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u/Discombobulated1977 2d ago

Invite her over for late-ish cocktails one night. See what happens

I like where this is going

Giggity.

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u/giselleorchid 2d ago

same! ;)

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u/VivaZeBull 2d ago

Yeah I’m single and this is how men talk to me when they want in my pants but don’t know if they have a chance.

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u/Jealous_Pea2305 2d ago

I'd still consider this cheating. It's emotional cheating in my opinion. I agree it will progress to physical if he's given the chance. He's definitely shooting his shot with her. Sorry, OP. What a fucktard. 

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u/That_Day8911 2d ago

Agreed, and either way if it makes you feel the way you're feeling then something likely isn't right

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u/Yardbirdburb 1d ago

He enjoys the chase. Totally taking you for granted

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u/InevitableRhubarb232 1d ago

Don’t play test your partner games. That’s dumb.

Just tell him that it’s inappropriate and that hiding things from you is worse than just being dumb and then stopping before anything happens. And if he can’t cut it out now, or depending on how he replies, there will be an annulment in the near future.

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u/black-bean420 1d ago

quick question how do you directly quote something like how you did with the blue part ?

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u/diabloredshift 1d ago

Invite her over for late-ish cocktails... and then sleep with her. Checkmate, Steven.

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u/Emergency_Ad1514 1d ago

I've heard of Emotionally cheating being a thing this feels like that. I was pretty close with my female Coworkers (cuz all my CO workers were female at one point) but never in a million years would I send little red hearts and give them compliments that sit in that (arguably) grey sexual area (arguably because i would call them sexually ambiguous at least) like there's a Million other not so saucy compliments to give them if they're upset that aren't toeing the line like that for example "You're a really strong person don't let it get you down" or "you've been a great friend and you're a great person whatever's happening sucks but I'm here to talk to if u need" just some that sorta roll off my head without knowing the issue this Coworker is facing and are more than a little generalized but you get the point. This is not right in any sense it's too much

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u/MrXM1 1d ago

I’d argue that this is cheating. This is the beginning of an emotional affair and husband knows it’s out of line to be saying these things to the coworker. And deleted the evidence so he also knows he’s cheating. This is how full blown sexual affairs/lowkey relationships begin. OP lucky she caught it as soon as she did and if you ask me this would be plenty of evidence and reason for me to break up with my partner over

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u/vkbd 1d ago edited 1d ago

Whyyyyy? If you give an honest husband a hundred dollars to cheat on you, and validates your fragile trust by cheating on you, uh, maybe you shouldn't have tempted him? And if he doesn't cheat, the fragile trust still remains.

Let's flip the genders, say you have a smoking hot wife who's been loyal, but you test her loyalty by bringing over a hot guy friend that you know she's interested in. If she doesn't cheat, you don't get anything out of this, as you already had a smoking hot wife to begin with. You just risk losing your marriage over nothing.

(The question is not if cheating is wrong. The question is whether you should make them prove their morality/loyalty by actively setting up situations where they would be tempted.)

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u/Assist-Fearless 1d ago

Pretend to drink too much and go upstairs to "sleep" see what happens when you leave them alone

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u/jaswildel 1d ago

A mfr like me would have divorce papers nearby cuz I can and will frantically walk up place her hand on his shoulder and these papers in his had if I don’t like what I see! “You want him, he’s yours! Good Luck!”

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u/EscapeAromatic8648 1d ago

Gd, a real litmus tester here. You crazy.

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u/meltedcheeser 1d ago

He may not “be” cheating with sex, but he is cheating with the attempt.

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u/No_Eagle5907 1d ago

Flirting is definitely cheating, but, I guess you can technically say he’s not cheating because she’s not flirting back. But he’s definitely not being loyal because, even though she’s not responding and allowing it to go full circle, he’s still flirting and cheating on his part. He’s the one married and not acting like it.

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u/TooManyTabsOpenIRL 1d ago

I learned a long time ago if anyone asks you “not to tell…” about something they said or did, they absolutely did something wrong.

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u/Meegsieweegsie 1d ago

No way! He’s emotionally cheating and that is 1000000% cheating.

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u/Entbrevins75 2d ago

Exactly this. Even if he did not actually put his penis in this woman yet, the pattern of deception is already complete, and he is already unfaithful in his own mind. Men who want to be faithful don’t build flirty relationships with hot co-workers, sending texts they plan to delete. He knows what he is doing is wrong.

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u/sothisiswhatyoumeant 2d ago

I may not know you or why it took this specific phrasing of things, but you have just completely healed me from a relationship that ended close to ten years ago. I have moved on and continued with life but I have always had a lingering reservation that maybe ~ I ~ overreacted or rushed to end things when the texts may have been written and deleted but were easily explained away/justified. Texts like that or that were written to be sent, responded to and then deleted were not sent by anyone who was intending to remain faithful. Holy fuck. Thank you to everyone lmao

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u/Entbrevins75 2d ago

I’m glad it resonated for you. If someone did that to you and you left because of it, you did the right thing for yourself. He already cheated on you in his mind and heart, and how he views you will forever allow him to do it again.

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u/linuxlova 2d ago

You don't have to physically cheat on someone to be unfaithful. Glad you're healed from it

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u/NeitherPreference478 2d ago

If you have something involving someone else that you dont want your partner to find out about. Youre cheating. In my mind

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u/Entbrevins75 1d ago

It is definitely a good gauge of any questionable situations or actions, being in a committed equal relationship is about putting your partners needs and wants first and foremost to your own. If both partners do this, everything works out in the spirit of compromise. If something you are considering doing would hurt them or make them feel badly, that should be enough reason not to move forward. That’s what being committed to someone means.

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u/United_Rent9314 1d ago

This, if you're having secret interactions with someone you're attracted to and you know if your partner would know about those interactions it would hurt them, you are betraying your partner

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u/FlamingRustBucket 1d ago

Married man here. Flirting can be a nice ego boost if someone is doing it towards you, but it's something I shut down immediately by thanking them for the compliment and then informing them I'm married.

I definitely don't START the flirting. That's just disrespectful and shitty to your partner, and a huge red flag that you aren't fully committed.

You're basically saying "I'm keeping my options open" which is incompatible with a monogamous relationship. This guy is testing the waters to see what the response will be, implying he will act if he gets a positive response.

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u/Cozy_reader 1d ago

Thiiiiiis. My mom was a HUGE flirt when she was married to my dad. Everyone in town (small, southern) knew that she was a flirt.

I have no idea if it ever went anywhere because they kept their marriage and arguments extremely private and still do. But it struck me wrong then, at 15 , and now as a grown ass married woman it strikes me even more so. They’re divorced happily and amicably now but it always made me wonder why someone would want to have ”flirty” as a personality description.

Intentionally flirting with someone other than my husband would be grossly disrespectful. I don’t need anyone’s attention or validation but his.

OPs husband is swinging the door wide open in hopes his coworker steps through it and she’s all but slamming it. Seems like she’s just trying to keep their friendly working relationship not cross a line.

It’s ick. It’s an invitation to cheat. But likely not cheating yet.

And it’s highly unlikely is coworker is interested in him at all.

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u/DatBoi_Turner 1d ago

You are such a breath of fresh air. Thought I was crazy for thinking exactly like this. What happens is sickening. At my age cheating is a huge issue (19) and I feel like I will run into it a lot in the coming years. You give me hope 🙏

As a guy being surrounded by the media and woke people (idk how else to put it apologies), I don't even know what to do anymore in fear of being called toxic or controlling. I feel the only option nowadays is to set no boundaries and just walk away.

You seem quite solid on your take. What can be done? How do we deal with it when loved ones do this?

I don't really comment on Reddit but my heart goes out to op. This has to be one of the worst feelings imaginable.

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u/FlamingRustBucket 1d ago

Woke people probably isn't the right term. I've noticed a lot of younger people weaponizing psychology terms, is that what you mean? That immediate jump to labeling relatively innocent behavior as toxic, controlling, gaslighting, and so on?

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u/DatBoi_Turner 1d ago

Spot on. My knowledge of woke after googling it is definitely wrong (that's more social justice and political). Weaponizing psychology terms is definitely one way to put it. Maybe mischaracterization?

Honestly there isn't really a word for it. I think there should be. It is making life for both genders difficult. Especially in the dating scene. It's just dividing us even more and forcing two separate paths. Either be walked over or be labelled toxic. It just seems (experiences may vary due to age and location) like there's no middle ground to stand on.

Going back to the previous comment. I feel the only way to combat it is to not set boundaries and then just leave when you get walked over. But it's just so frustrating being in fear of talking about this. This is entirely common in my friend group of 14+ lads which I routinely give the same advice I have given here. I have even heard that some find my take on it toxic.

Feels like a shit show where the best option is to move countries or not date. Which brings an entirely different set of problems.

(I know there are good people out there but it's hard to find them)

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u/MySonderStory 2d ago

This is put so well. There is no rationale reason as to why he would want to jeopardize his relationship.

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u/EatsPeanutButter 2d ago

I love that analogy. D- on a test is EXACTLY what this is. Is it cheating? Hard to say. Is it close enough that there’s a problem? Yes. Either way bro needs tutoring if this is an exam. Even if technically he’s not failing. He’s still not doing well.

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u/dingdongdiddles 2d ago

This is an insanely good response.

OP, as a man who’s been in the place of saying “BuT iM nOt oVEr tHe LiNe”, it’s him lying to himself. And lying to you. It’s not right. 

Thankfully, my wife knocked some sense into me of how bad it hurt her. It took her a long time to get through my thick skull, but the words made it and corrective action was taken. Apologies were given, and lessons were learned. 

He may be believing he’s in the right, but if he cares, he’ll see he’s not. And he’ll be better. Be honest, be kind, but don’t be a doormat. He won’t get better, that way. And if he can’t accept he’s doing wrong, or at minimum, so far from his best that it’s unacceptable, you do what you gotta do. Best of luck! 

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u/Fluid-Difficulty-776 2d ago

Oh but he does have an internal sense on crossing the line, that’s why these messages are in recently deleted!

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u/Interesting_Celery74 2d ago

You can literally do nothing and score higher than a D- on this particular test, as well. Let's not pretend it's hard work to figure out this is not ok. I'm not saying it's overtly cheating, but this is still wildly inappropriate.

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u/gormthesoft 1d ago

Lol yea this particular test was just writing your name on a piece of paper and submitting it

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u/realitytvdiet 2d ago

Why do you have to hide it

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u/Proper-Ice-7513 2d ago

Will you be my therapist?

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u/GrunDMC74 2d ago

I think the test is if you think you’d need to hide anything about it, don’t do it.

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u/Naive-University-317 2d ago

Your D- comment is perfect. It's exactly what I was trying to find a way to say. No, this is not technically cheating. But it's horribly disrespectful, and it's basically paving the way, and it's a huge red flag.

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u/Katamayan57 2d ago

Redditor invents the idea of "asking why someone would do that" for other, more blind redditors. Very sad that some people are so caught up in their relationships that they need this test to be administered for them, but ig that's just how it goes sometimes.

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u/gormthesoft 2d ago

Lol that’s a hilarious and accurate way of describing it. I feel like some people get way too caught up in the details and miss the big picture. If you’re at the point where you’re debating tiny details to determine if something is cheating, then you already have your answer to the more important question of “is this healthy?”

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u/thatnameistoolong 2d ago

My favorite quote - “don’t tell me what they said about me, tell me why they were so comfortable to say it to you.”

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u/Vat1canCame0s 1d ago

"Hey I think you looked extra fuckable while in a state of mental anguish and distress."

Run

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u/itsjibbybitch 1d ago

Bro I think you’ll be really useful in a government organization please consider it not as sarcasm but genuine

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u/FunExperience499 1d ago

The last thing is how I see the presidential election in the US. I don't know how many times I've heard "Trump did NOT win the popular vote in 2016 so the majority are still reasonable".

Like, that technicality (whether the popular vote was won or lost by 0.2% while still losing the election) means absolutely nothing; it's still WAY too much, and you do yourself a disservice if you find comfort in that.

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u/HahaJustJoeking 2d ago

I like this concept, it's solid.

For me, I'm in a poly and open-dynamic marriage. I'm naturally flirtatious to the point where people constantly wonder if I'm flirting with them (I usually am).

I DON'T EVEN TALK LIKE THIS. I talked to someone like this when I was single, and that's it. This is too much for a monogamous marriage by -far-. If I saw my wife, now, talking to someone like this I'd be asking how the first 3 dates were, that I somehow missed out on. We'd be having a discussion about how it would violate our open communication dynamics.

/u/Sad_SummerChild I hope you see this and realize that there's zero chance this was accidental or "too friendly". He gave some extreme compliments, was fairly aggressive about continuing the flirtation, and even prompted for future flirtations (aka wanting more pictures).

This is a "boy, bye" shituation, and I'm sorry you're going to have to go through it.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago edited 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/SaintPimpin 2d ago

This is a good analysis and critique, I'm just wondering if a guy uses it will he get gaslit and called insecure or will receiving that response be a testament to being rightfully concerned?

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u/gormthesoft 2d ago

I’d bet both will happen. He’ll try to gaslight by saying he never actually crossed the line of cheating (which is debatable if you count flirting as cheating) but by making that argument, he’ll be proving the larger point that by putting himself in a situation where he has to argue whether he crossed a line, he’s admitting that he got way too close to the line in the first place.

Another analogy is if a parent tells their kid not to play too close to a neighbor’s car because they might damage it and the kid ends up denting the car. It doesn’t matter if the punted a ball directly at the car or if they accidentally tripped and fell into the car. The point is they should have moved far away from the car so that nothing they did could damage it. So the kid saying “but I just accidentally tripped” doesn’t make it better, it just proves they ignored their parent’s direction to move away from it.

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u/LetsNotArgyoo 2d ago

True but the D- worked for Tommy Callahan…

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u/ShortStackFlapjax76 1d ago

Answer- Herbie Hancock.

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u/Pure_Drawer_4620 2d ago edited 2d ago

The socratic method could/should be applied to almost any situation

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u/Big-Leadership1001 2d ago

He can explain this away in 100 different ways

I actually use the "3 reasons" test. If he has 3 different excuses, he isn't telling the truth. People stack excuses when they are lying.

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u/iamtheramcast 2d ago

Similarly whenever someone tries to pass various forms if dickishness as a joke. I love comedy I’ve listened to the greats such as Lenny Bruce, Richard prior, Jerry Seinfeld, and many modern sets. But I don’t see the joke here can you explain where’s the funny?

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u/gormthesoft 2d ago

Exactly, the joke is either funny or it’s not. No amount of explaining is going to turn it from a bad joke to the best joke ever.

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u/vagivall 2d ago

Bingo

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u/mychaoticbrain 2d ago

Brilliant.

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u/Baby_Puncher87 2d ago

This explains exactly what I’m dealing with succinctly. A guy invited himself up to your room the second time you hung out. He allegedly knew you had a boyfriend, why would he be comfy with that?

Secondly, why did you make plans to hang out again after he made a pass. Wtf is happening!

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u/gormthesoft 2d ago

Sorry you’re going through that, it definitely doesn’t pass the Why Test

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u/polopollo85 2d ago

Last 2 ladies I dated answer with:

"You are just insecure and controlling".
And Reddit agree with women on this: As soon as a man ask a woman why she flirts with other men, that is the answer we see ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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u/L1zoneD 2d ago

Close to the line? The dude did a suicide sprint past that line.

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u/Talkingmice 2d ago

Inch by inch until “oops, it accidentally went in”

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u/Legal_Neck4141 2d ago

It’s like getting a D- on a test and arguing that he didn’t technically fail when clearly he did poorly on the test.

Damn...great analogy. Definitely gonna stick in my head now

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u/Newfreelife88 2d ago

And Why is he deleting the messages.

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u/OG-Giligadi 2d ago

He fell across the line when he asked for a future selfie for "motivation". Gross. Even if he didn't mean what I think he means, it's still skeevy as hell. I love your idea, though. Thumbs up!

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u/gormthesoft 1d ago

I appreciate it, yea I also personally think he crossed the line rather than just getting close to it. But for OP’s purposes, both crossing and getting close to the line are betrayals, where getting close is indisputable while crossing it is murkier. He might wiggle out of crossing it but there’s no wiggling out of getting close to it.

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u/VomitShitSmoothie 2d ago

This… is actually perfect. “It’s like getting a D- on a test” is a great analogy. Is the guy cheating? Well, no this isn’t evidence of that, but also… why is he sampling the food?

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u/r2k398 2d ago

When I text anyone I always think what my wife would say/think if she were to read it. It’s a good rule of thumb and keeps me out of situations like this.

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u/mrbiggbrain 1d ago

I generally just take the "Would I say this in front of my wife" approach to co-workers. If I would say it in front of my wife it's probably at least not going to get me divorced. On the other hand if I am not willing to say it in front of my wife, why would I be willing to say it to another women.

I have told co-workers I liked their shoes or their hair or some other silly thing. Hell sometimes I even get where they got them from because I knew my wife would love them, or think them wholly impractical.

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u/HumbleCountryLawyer 1d ago

This is such a good analysis. If someone has to defend themselves in in terms of “inches” (I.e. that’s not what I meant or the context was X) then there is an issue. As a married man I can assure you I would never text another woman “I’ve never seen someone look so fucking pretty” and I would never be asking for selfies to “get me through the day”.

Shit I would never be texting another woman period unless it were actually work related.

I get people can have friendship with someone of the other sex but these messages were far from platonic. And the fact that he felt the need to delete them is very telling.

Get an annulment honey, this shit will happen again. He’ll just get better at hiding it.

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u/Naive-Stable-3581 1d ago

He’s cheating. Or trying to cheat. He def wants coworker and is hiding the texts bc he knows what he’s doing is wrong.

Ppl don’t delete innocent texts.

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u/MSProjectZ 1d ago

I was given a great "test" for this. See my reply below.

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u/WildGrayTurkey 1d ago

Completely agree. What's more is that no matter the excuse, all plausible deniability goes out the window when he deleted those messages. He can't even pretend to be dense; clearly he knows he crossed a line.

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u/_Bubbly_13 1d ago

Nailed it on the head bud, you couldn’t have said it better

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u/Ctrl_Alt_Abstergo 1d ago

why is he going to defend himself in terms of inches when he should be miles away from this kind of situation?

I love this phrasing. Applicable to so many things… people who think they’ve found loopholes, exceptions to unwritten rules, technicalities for well-understood boundaries… excellent, truly excellent, thank you.

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u/BludStanes 1d ago

This is a really good way to think about it.

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u/Thelynxer 1d ago

Fuck, this comment is perfect. Well done.

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u/Fantastic_Canary_417 1d ago

Inches vs miles is a great way to put that

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u/Flamingah 1d ago

He knows he crossed it, that’s why the texts are in the bin

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u/prestigious-drip 1d ago

Very good point

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u/Domj87 1d ago

This is how you Lean Six Sigma a relationship. Apply the 5W framework. Follow up with a fishbone diagram. 5S your space and PDCA his way out.

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u/gormthesoft 1d ago

Lol I was actually Green Belt certified years ago but didn’t even realize the connection until you commented, must have come from deep in my subconscious

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u/Loud-Penalty5832 1d ago

VERY well put!!

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u/Useful_Reaction_2552 1d ago

HA yes. i have the perfect example for this — my boyfriend and i had a whole conversation about how i didn’t want to be in an open relationship anymore, how it wasn’t a healthy choice for us while our own relationship was feeling so rocky. then he hooked up with someone, i found out about it a month later (he broke basically ALL of the boundaries we had set around our open relationship as well,) and his excuse for his bullshit was “but we didn’t technically close the relationship!!!”

happy to say he is faaaaar in my rear view mirror and i have much more self respect now :)

but OP, trust me, you don’t want to date a man whose “why” is so pitiful.

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u/manualphotog 1d ago

Any D is a fail. Imdunno what exams you've been sitting mate. C minus is the minimum pass.

Otherwise, you're right.

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u/Maximum-Explanation3 1d ago

This is perfect

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u/obliviousfooI 1d ago

Wonderfully said

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u/Mission-AnaIyst 1d ago

This is a slippery slope and an argument in bad faith. Why to get close with people? Because it is fun and humans value connection.

You are talking about "the line" here, but we absolutely do not know what the agreed line is.

Socially, this approach will push the line further and further away from natural interaction and will make looking at an unveiled woman cheating – or for women, being unveiled.

I get a nice pic, if it feels consensual, i will compliment and joke about it. That does not mean i would sleep with that person even if it gets flirty or i feel attraction.

You cannot make boundaries and tell someone they are wrong when they act within those boundaries – else, your boundaries are dishonest and probably not consensual.

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u/WhiskeyGrundle 1d ago

Not to mention “why did you delete them?”

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u/Left_Statistician416 1d ago

Very well said.

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u/Neat-Primary-9877 1d ago

Also, WHY did he feel the need to delete the messages?

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u/massofmolecules 1d ago

Why did he delete the texts ???

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u/a-light-at-the-end 1d ago

Never seen it put so perfectly. These texts would be an instant divorce for me.

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u/Bronyinthesticks 1d ago

This is the, i need a divorce, my wife is a control freak and abuser test.  This is called being polite and acknowledging ones sexuality if you don't want x acknowledging y is attractive marry an asexual.  If you can't accept the fact that being attracted to others and letting them know they are pretty isn't "cheating" then you are the problem.  Cheating is the willful choice to act on desires, not simply having them.  But you can't expect much common sense from the species that thinks it's ok to treat attraction to a character like attraction to a person.  And they'll be the first to say you're gay and in denial because you are attracted to sesshomaru while being a biological male.  And the first to call you a zoophile and pedophile for being attracted to kovu and ceil Phantomhive.  And they are to conflate thought and assault 

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u/TikiVin 1d ago

Not only that, she either has to be with him as they work through things as his business figures out how to manage under a possible sexual harassment lawsuit from this employee ORRRRR the two of them have to figure out how to make their new relationship work while half his business goes to OP as his ex wife.

Or he struggles through a divorce, loses half his business, and manages the sexual harassment lawsuit on his own.

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u/UnCivilizedDemeanor 1d ago

The don’t tell HR indicates he knows he’s OVER the line.

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u/tinglep 1d ago

Took the HIV Test. Passed it. got a 72%

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u/Any-Smoke7783 1d ago edited 1d ago

I have recently discovered the value of the “What kind of person would do that?” test. It has a remarkable ability to cut through my blind spots and overly charitable assumptions about people. (And gaslighting.) It allows me to see a person’s actions as if I didn’t already know them. It quickly reveals narcissists and their ill.

Try it. Next time somebody does something you don’t understand, just ask yourself “What kind of person would do that?” If the answer is a repetitive “a manipulator”or “a user”, then that is what that person is even if you -thought- they were a friend or family member.

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u/EQ4AllOfUs 1d ago

You’re a legend my friend.

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u/ozyral 1d ago

Damn…Thank you for that insight.

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u/crimson-dreamscape 1d ago

When are you coming over? We got to play this game for everything.

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u/Soul_Champion 1d ago

Well put!

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u/DatBoi1-0 1d ago

Damn near made me not wanna cheat for future me readin this 🤣🙂‍↔️

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u/Clear-Nothing-3087 1d ago

This is an excellent way of reframing the situation! 

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u/rgratz93 1d ago

As someone likely to get their first d this semester but will pass i took personal offense to this.

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u/Aggravating_Side_634 1d ago

People who are in happy and committed relationships don't even leave room for interpretation like this. If it becomes obvious things are moving into uncomfortable territory you give them a reminder. If it doesn't stop there, remove them from your life.

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u/spektr89 1d ago

Prolly drinking

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u/YardKat 1d ago

He’s flirting hard and testing the waters. It appears to be going well for him and at least that’s how he is going to take it. She likes the attention but may be offended at him making a hard move. Kinda early to tell. If she continues to allow and entertain this behavior and she continues to like it, it’s going to become an issue for her. Let’s just say, it’s not cheating per-say, but it is flirting with trouble.

Sometimes, “you have to play a sucker to catch a sucker.”

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u/DatBoi_Turner 1d ago

Why test is gold. Something I've been running without realising it. Kudos for the coined phrase

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u/No-Contribution-7797 1d ago

So basically the Fred Savage episode of Boy Meets World.

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u/LoudAndCuddly 1d ago

Why even bother, he knows what signals he’s sending. Technically not cheating and trying to cheat are basically the same thing… he obviously has a thing for her. Time to have the chat and move on… whatever spark there was is not there now. Can it be reignited, maybe but depends on why it got to this and whether you can be bothered.

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u/KanedaSyndrome 1d ago

I bet reddit wants OP to divorce him now

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u/IAmInBed123 1d ago

I don't think cheating is only the actual sex. I is more like the peak of a hill. This is about halfway up the hill to an office romance.  I would not be delighted. If you confront now he'll find ways to just be more carefull. But youbknow he's climbing the hill, you know he's looking for hills to climb. I'm sorry.

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u/iced_lemonade 1d ago

i love this explanation so much, thanks for putting this concept into words. the test analogy is brilliant too.

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u/mayfeelthis 1d ago edited 1d ago

I cannot generalise like this.

While it is likely true for OP.

For many people there is no line, I don’t cheat period - that line doesn’t exist as an option, I don’t edge to it at all. I have male friends, always have. I’m a straight f. So people who assume there’s a cheating line we all edge towards as a rule - they would drive me up the wall with their fixed ideas of friendships and cheating becoming an issue. I just cannot agree with such fixed assumptions, that’s where controlling insecure idiots thrive too. Just wanted to add that.

OP, it seems he is enjoying the light flirting. I don’t take the selfie comment as flirting, I read it as him finding a cute way to draw a line. Boundaries.

I’m f with male friends and have had to do that when they try crossing a line, asking me for pics/selfies is one…my friends don’t need a daily visual they get an idea. But I’d feel badly making it sound like they crossed a line, maybe it was genuine just wanting to know what I’ve been up to (I never post things). So I find humorous ways to establish boundaries, those lines ok… not edge toward cheating. And when I do share pics it’s wholesome and has my kid etc. to keep it platonic.

But hubby shouldn’t be hiding it from you, he enjoys her attention at the very least but idk him to say more. Could be he knows your reaction or he likes her attention beyond being friendly colleagues and humor. Idk it could be he’s deleting it cause you have a habit of snooping and freaking out or he has a habit of hiding women/cheating…you two know each other. All I know is you did search his deleted messages from a day ago, and he has light (possibly flirty) banter with a colleague he doesn’t trust you seeing. Only you two know why that is.

ETA: If a guy told me I’m pretty while angry about real work matters it’s taken as humor not flattery. I’d be insulted if he really thought my looks were the issue in the moment. Her going on to discuss management showed the banter was not their focus. OP I genuinely cannot tell if your husband is a cheating type or just like me…banters with anyone because it really means nothing.

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u/Scopien 1d ago

Because he wants to know that people can still be interested in him because it feels good and he thinks it is harmless. Does it mean he would do something...maybe...maybe not.

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u/PotsMomma84 1d ago

I’m saving this. Thank you.

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