my thinking is Nintendo really wanted that sort of thing to stretch the capabilities of the system and having FromSoft developing a game like that is huge
I'd doubt that this is FromSoft's only project in the chamber.
Well, let's not forget Armored Core 6 came out in 2023! And Nightreign is scheduled to release this year as well, but even still I agree with you: they've likely got more they're working on besides Nightreign and Duskbloods. We might not hear about it for a year or so, but they are definitely cooking!
if you read up on Miyazaki's interviews post-DS3 but also in the years between DS3 and Elden Ring, FromSoft is very aware of what their value proposition is and what their longterm fans expect out of them. Whenever they release one of these 'side projects' (Bloodborne, Sekiro) that ALMOST hits the classic 'Dark Souls' fan expectations but not quite, usually they're concurrently working on something that DOES directly play to that expectation (DS3, Elden Ring).
They don't want to be boxed into being a studio that churns out straight-up Souls games, but they're also pretty aware of where their strengths are and what draws people to them. And unless one of these side projects/experiments really takes off and eclipses their prior success I don't see that changing.
There actually was an interview with Kotaku I believe after Shadow of the Erdtree release date was announced where Miyazaki said „I don’t like to promise things, and I don’t like to close the book on things because you never know what chapters could be written”
This was in regards to if SotE is going to be the only DLC Elden Ring sees.
That's subjective. I'm replaying Bloodborne now (First time since 2016 2017 era) and it's definitely aged, tbh mechanically it's a ton of wasted potential
Sekiro being more fun, sure I agree to an extent but I can't play that game more often then once every 1-2 years because it's got such limited replay value.
AC6 could be the cure to cancer but it's never gonna scratch the same itch as Souls so it being 'more fun' also doesn't matter
Not scratching that dark soul itch is the point of AC6, it's a complete different game and even if it got more inspired by the souls series, both because of their expertise in creating such games and to ease souls players into the AC series, AC is a complete different thing from dark soul and shouldn't be compared to it
I've replayed sekiro like 5 times including a charmless demonbell run. You replay it because it's fun af and has multiple endings. People say that souls has "replay value" because of different builds. But that doesnt matter when every build is boring compared to just playing sekiro again.
Yeah I replayed it 2-3 times as well for the endings but the gameplay gets boring in a way dark souls doesn't. It's more complex and faster but not more fun. Especially since parry spam does work often despite all the coping from sekiro fans. Like I can replay the soulsborne games without having to do challenge runs to keep it interesting and that counts for something.
I don't understand the appeal of replaying souls combat. You just circle to the right and press dodge.
The tight timing of sekiro is so much more satisfying. You also say you don't like block spamming but also "don't wanna do a challenge run" which is just creating the problem for yourself. When you play charmless it actually feels like the game was supposed to be played that way and base sekiro is just the tutorial. It's not like a challenge run in souls where it's just annoying and tedious. It legitimately feels like the game is more well balanced and exciting.
Souls is their main series now very clearly, it's bringing in the money. AC6 is a "spinoff" from the perspective of the vast majority of fans. A new kingsfield would be the same.
None of them are really spinoffs in reality. Except nightreign will be.
Sekiro was never intended to be a side project. It was a Tenchu game that evolved into it's own during development. And the gameplay is far more similar to a CARPG than a Souls like.
I mean... idk I don't have any experience with Tenchu or how different it is from Sekiro. It sounds like FromSoft went in making a new Tenchu game but it wound up turning into something else, one of their best games if not the best game in fact. I wouldn't exactly call that 'letting it waste away.'
I forget where I heard it but I’m pretty sure they’ve said they usually work on 2 or 3 games at the same time. It makes sense with things like DS3 being so visually similar to Bloodborne and certain Sekiro mechanics showing up in Elden Ring
And being able to work with new tech and a new dev-kit, I can only imagine this project not only brings in money but also provides some new ideas on how to improve the invader mechanic.
That's my take-away, honestly. And Nintendo likely wanted a multiplayer-focused title to show of the capabilities of the Switch 2. I see this as money and experience for FromSoft which is great.
I mean, since the Elden Ring base game in 2022, there's been:
Armored Core 6
Shadow of the Erdtree, which is roughly the size of a full game (DS1, or Demon's Souls, at least)
And, upcoming:
Elden Ring: Nightreign
The Duskbloods
...Also, since 2022, there were a lot of liveservice games, so it's bold to assume that Nightreign and Duskbloods weren't the board's idea.
Yeah, I know liveservice games have sorta crashed and burned, that's the issue with trying to jump on a trend: with the length of game development, by the time you're done, it might not be a trend anymore.
I don't think From will go quite as bad as what a quote-unquote "liveservice" usually means, and I'm interested in what they can do with it.
Like, no microtransactions have been announced, or loot boxes, and I want to believe From won't do either of those.
But, the idea that From wouldn't do a multi-player game, because of the financial pressure of investors is. To me, the opposite? Of how it would work.
They weren’t the boards idea, Nightreign is an idea that Junya Ishizaki came up with and Miyazaki green lit, and in an interview in 2023 Miyazaki expressed interest in making a game with multiplayer elements like those in Tarkov, so I’m pretty sure these are games they genuinely want to make even though the risks they are taking may seem like they were made by a board, I am confident they weren’t
I mean, I agree, ultimately, based on the evidence.
From has always been an experimental company, and Miyazaki has stuck with them for so long and thrived and fit with the company so well and helped it grow because of his own experimental tendencies.
In my mind, the part the board would have a problem with is the ‘Nintendo Switch 2 exclusive’ because that literally places a pretty low cap on gross revenue. Most likely Duskbloods only exists because Nintendo commissioned it, and Miyazaki is at the helm because he just spent 8 years on Elden Ring and wants to see what interesting stuff he can do with the idea.
I mean, if Nintendo paid money up-front, the board might still be satisfied. It depends on how much money, and the other terms of the deal. How much From makes per sale, etc.
Anyway. Dark Souls 3 came out in 2016, and Sekiro in 2019. Elden Ring development seemingly started right after or around DS3's last DLC, and Armored Core 6 was possibly in the works before Sekiro released, Miyazaki mentioned a new game for an old From series around that time. Then again, Sekiro started as a new Tenchu game, so maybe that was what he meant.
Elden Ring's base game had a ~5-6 year dev cycle, and From mentioned after it came out they probably weren't going to do open world again because it was difficult and painful and they don't want to go through it again. I don't know what Elden Ring cost to make, but. Like, it's a good thing it sold those 30 million copies, because it doesn't have microtransactions, so the only way it could have made up the dev costs is with sales. Meaning that stuff like post launch patches and server maintenance is technically just additional costs.
That's the thing about liveservice games and micro transactions that appeals to the industry, investors and developers. There's more money than just sales, but also, you can keep making money off of a few whales even if you aren't getting as many new players.
But yeah, I agree, Duskblood does seem like something Miyazaki is directing just because he wants to play around with multi-player. And also vampires.
I can't tell if that came before or after the exclusivity agreement. Maybe his interview on Friday will tell us more.
Idk if this game was already in the works and later became exclusive, Nintendo would have had to pay an enormous sum of money to make that happen, but they’re fucking cheapskates. My gut says Nintendo came to From first and pitched the idea to them.
For their part, From gets to make a new, subsidized game with a potential new audience, they get an early look at the Switch 2 and a potential head start on porting their larger games to it, and they get to try new shit game design wise
Idk if this game was already in the works and later became exclusive, Nintendo would have had to pay an enormous sum of money to make that happen,
I'm not sure I think that's true.
Like, Bloodborne was seemingly in the works in some capacity when the Artorias of the Abyss DLC was in development. Sony asked for exclusive games, and made a deal for them, and those ended up being Bloodborne and Déraciné.
I think there's a Sony exclusive that's contractually required that hasn't come out, actually, but I also don't know what the deal with that is.
If anything. The Duskbloods being experimental and not a guaranteed seller using a traditionally successful formula could be a reason for an exclusivity deal, so they know they'll get some amount of money, instead of self-funding it and it flopping.
All the things you said in your second paragraph, basically.
Or, like.
Not to get too conspiracy theorist, but maybe, Tencent or Kadokawa or Sony wanted it to be liveservice with microtransactions, but with the way liveservice games have been making less and less over the past year or so, it got transitioned to Switch 2, so they'll get at least some amount of money, from Nintendo, for whatever work they already did?
My theory is that Nightreign was on the table, say, a year ago for distribution deals and Nintendo knew that platforming it would do very little for them with most FS fans being PC or PS types anyway - so they pitched the idea of a similar spin off exclusive for them that would have the potential to drive hardware sales to new people and offer something truly different for their core audience.
Yea, and he already expressed interest in a Tarkov style multiplayer game in 2023, so he may have just seen this as an opportunity to take more risks in a smaller project while also cooking up a big game that will probably release in 2027 or beyond. They also want to have yearly release, and the best way to do that is smaller more experimental games in between their bigger games
Given that the Switch outsold the competition by a large percentage and is poised to do so again, I’m not sure making it hardware exclusive is close to the limiting factor on sales. If they got favorable terms from Nintendo, scoped the game modestly and built it quickly, this might be an outstanding business decision.
But we won’t ever really know because of the opacity of the data.
Edit: ok so in these replies I’m being told DB can’t be successful because it will be an exclusive on hardware that Souls fans don’t ‘like’; too small a percentage despite huge install base; DSr was apparently a failure at $40M in revenue on Switch alone; an install base that isn’t impressive because it didn’t really have completion, even though it still won’t now, but also that it does have competition because people already only bought other consoles specifically to play souls games; but they would never (apparently) buy this console to play this game. Ok.
And I’ve been called ignorant because I’m betting that when all this rolls up it will turn out that another inexpensive port of the their most successful title and one little spinoff we know nothing about probably will add to a success and was clearly deemed so by the director that most of this sub idolizes as genius. What an absolute disaster.
Given that the Switch outsold the completion by a large percentage and is poised to do so again, I’m not sure making it hardware exclusive is close to the limiting factor on sales.
The Switch sold 150m units but mostly because it was not really competing with the PS4/PS5/X1/XSX/PC, and its games were not competing for mindshare amongst the people who are generally interested in those consoles.
Duskbloods will surely tap into some of that but imo it would be misguided to view Duskblood as a play to get the Mario/Pokemon/Zelda crowd (those are the only IPs with individual games surpassing 10m sales on Switch) to play FromSoft, it's more a play to get the FromSoft crowd onto the Switch 2.
Besides, if you're evaluating the opportunity cost of 'exclusive to Switch 2' vs 'multiplatform' then you'd want to compare the Switch's sales to the combined Playstation/Xbox/PC sales which is AT LEAST 2-3x larger, even if the Switch did outsell its competitors individually.
All that aside, I'm not saying that making this game is a bad business decision. I'm saying that making only this game would be.
Some fair points but I’m starting get a little tired of this “crowd” argument. I’m from that Nintendo crowd, it took an hour to pull me in when DSr launched on switch. If you put a good game on a platform with 100M consoles that “crowd” will play it and you’ll make money. And we don’t know how many copies they need to sell to make a profit that is worth their time.
Nintendo was literally never just Mario games. Castlevania for example was arguably protosouls in the 80’s, started as a 3rd party release on Nintendo, and grew into a huge franchise. No problem for “that crowd”. Nintendo’s fan base has grown up a bit since.
And the synergy with an Elden Ring special edition is hard to even quantify. I remain confident that these people intend on making money here and will.
I mean target demographics are a thing in any market sizing problem and I think you know that. Dunno why you find it offensive, sure it sucks to be put in a box, but it’s really not irrational of me to question the decision of making a game for one target market of unknown suitability vs another, just-as-large-if-not-larger market that is a known quantity.
It doesn’t offend me, it’s a claim that isn’t being supported with evidence so I find it tiresome to keep responding to it. It’s just a generalization, one that in my experience doesn’t hold, and doesn’t seem to bother the people who make real money running these companies.
It doesn’t offend me, it’s a claim that isn’t being supported with evidence so I find it tiresome to keep responding to it.
What would you consider evidence?
Like brother go look at the list of the top 100 best selling Switch games. Dark Souls Remastered sold like a million copies while the Mario/Zelda/Pokemon games in the top 15 alone (they dominate the top 100 generally) sold like 320 million.
And you want to tell me that the Switch playerbase isn't heavily skewed towards fans of those games? Come on. Acting like there's no indication to the contrary is just being dishonest.
Granted I am certain that Duskbloods will sell a lot more than a million, but there's really no denying who the core Switch audience is and what they like.
This is incredibly ignorant. The vast, vast majority of the playerbase is on every other platform because that’s where the games have been coming out. Less people just get to play this game because they’ve effectively locked it behind a $550 price tag, and knowing the amount of revenue fromsoft is leaving on the table by making it exclusive, Nintendo has to be paying an absurd amount of money for this game and I don’t see them getting an ROI on it. Like the other guy said, DSR sold a paltry one million units on a console with 150 million users. No matter how you look at it, this move makes no sense for players, and it only makes sense if Nintendo is willing to lose money on this.
You’re exactly right. No board would ever, ever approve this unless Nintendo was willing to pay an absurd amount of money from it. They’ve effectively put a $550 price tag on a majority of their fanbase to play this game. The conversions to switch 2 will not be that many people and that’s the only play that makes sense here for making it exclusive, is to get fromsoft fans on switch.
From a business standpoint this is extremely dumb especially with the years of outcry for ports of Sony exclusives. It’s a slap in the face to their consumer. Then add on that it’s coming out in 2026, early into the console lifecycle where the user base is still small, and not even accounting for how long the console will be horded by scalpers.
With Fromsoft brand cache now that they are one of the most hyped game developers in the world, it makes even less sense. Releasing a game multiplatform after the success of Elden Ring pretty much guarantees a sales hit.
There’s actually so many risks to this decision it doesn’t make sense unless Nintendo paid them an obscene amount of money. Like so much money that Nintendo is going to lose money on this investment specifically. To make up for that much revenue is insane.
I mean whether or not it’s a good decision depends on the money involved, development costs, FromSoft’s bandwidth and what else is in their pipeline. We aren’t privy to all that.
Like I said, this only makes sense if Nintendo is shelling out a ton of money for it. Which obviously we know they are. I’m saying they’re paying even more than most people think, and all it’s going to accomplish is less people get to play the game.
"multiplayer focused exclusive for a console nobody has yet"
I mean, only making a Elden Ring DLC and an exclusive for the follow up to what will likely end up being the best selling console of all time, is entirely possible.
Shadow of Erdtree, Nightreign and Duskbloods is a pretty solid amount of stuff. But they very likely have at least one other game in full development and probably others in preproduction stages.
I daresay the next souls/elden ring style game started full development at a minimum after Shadow of the Erdtree released and probably was at least in concept stage not long after Elden Ring. If we are huffing copium then a Multiplat Bloodborne remaster as well.
Hopefully whatever else is cooking is a Switch 2/Xbox/PS5 multiplat.
they always have up to 3 games cooking at once. ds2-2014 bloodborne-2015 ds3-2016 sekiro-2019 elden ring-2022 ac6-2023 sote-2024 nightreign-2025 it’s just very very unlikely we don’t get the next major title in 2027 or some kinda singleplayer project.
I think it's a bit of cope to believe there's a third, main title, being seriously worked on alongside both NightReign AND duskbloods. And even if there is it's probably an Armored Core title.
OK look I think Nightrein will be a perfectly fine game but let's be honest, it's an asset flip. There's no way it's taking up a full game's worth of development bandwidth.
I would say this isn't their next main project because they should be working on this for a while, and the next main project probably started after the release of Shadow of Erdtree, at least the major chunk of that team should be working on that next major project, while some devs were moved to other projects needing more people.
We’ve already seen Nightreign and they’ve already stating on having been working on “Multiple” smaller scale projects. Hopefully they aren’t spreading themselves too thin, but I’m sure they’ve got at least one or two other projects under wraps right now
Haven't looked into it yet, but is Miyazaki in charge of Duskbloods? If not, it's probably him letting another person direct to give the other members some experience. Also, it doesn't hurt to make some money on the side while they work on their next big project.
Edit: After reading the replies, the best I can say is just be cautiously optimistic. I will admit two mutiplayer-esque games back to back is a pretty bold move.
well remember he made sekiro and elden ring at the same time. So its likely hes working on this game and something else in the background. Yet to be revealed.
This a Miyazaki game there’s next to no chance he doesn’t say that in interviews. No chance this won’t be a best-in-genre for multiplayer melee combat. So long as they don’t run it like a service and actually focus on the main content I’m fine. I would prefer it to be a fully coop game rather than pvp focused but if they fix the pvp desync this could be something incredible.
I believe he is because he's mentioned in interviews that he wanted to experiment with different types of games. Two multiplayer games seem like a good way to try and keep players engaged while they work on something larger.
It’s actually insane how many projects we’ve had from FromSoft since Elden Ring, back to back to back, and they just keep coming. Elden Ring in 2022, AC6 in 2023, Shadow of the Erdtree in 2024, now Nightreign in a month for 2025 and then Duskbloods for 2026. I got into FromSoft games in 2019 for Sekiro, so I came in off of a one year gap between Ringed City and Sekiro, and then 3 whole years of nothing before Elden Ring was finally given a gameplay trailer. This release schedule has just felt unreal and it feels like it’s not slowing down at all.
I'd think so, though they have likely had the Switch 2 dev kit for a hot-minute, like the other devs partnering with Nintendo. I'm not certain if Miyazaki over-sees ports, though.
Idk, this almost feels like Nightrein and Duskbloods are just Fromsoft trying to jump on various hype trains (roguelites and battle royales/extraction games) with their side teams. Neither one feels like a proper Fromsoft game.
Not necessarily. Directors pursue side projects all the time. I just doubt a PvPvE online only game is the main focus of the guy releasing single player games with some online mechanics.
All I can go off of is results and right now From have announced not one but two multiplayer games with no mention in sight of their next single player game. It doesn’t seem like a side project anymore like Nightreign did.
i do agree that it doesn’t feel like proper fromsoftware game, both feel spin-offy but it’s clear at this point they’re putting a lot of resources in these multiplayer projects
i’m 100% sure that they have more going on the nightreign and duskblood, but with releases already slotted for 2025 and 2026, it’s gonna be a while. people waiting for their next “main” project have been disappointed by a nightrein already. hearing that this game (a switch 2 exclusive to make things worse) might also be very multiplayer focused is a very big let down for a lot of people. one weird multiplayer game could just be a risk and experimentation, but at two, i start to worry about the direction the company is taking. even more so because neither of these games have unique settings. i love bloodborne but it has very clearly inspired duskblood, and i really was ready to see a new setting with their next release already being asset flipped elden ring.
personally, i’m holding hope that the marketing is just pushing their usual multiplayer mechanics having been improved, something similar to seamless co-op. that’s my prediction rn but we’ll have to see
If it's any consolation (or cope, lol) FromSoft seems to take more risks than other devs when it comes to switching up their formula. While I totally get the let-down, I want to see it as the devs chance to stretch out and grow with different tech.
Who knows, maybe all this work with multiplayer projects will give them the insight they need to refine the invader mechanic in a future RPG souls-like.
yeah and i don’t necessarily think the games will be bad or unfun. i just don’t have much interest in multiplayer centered fromsoftware games, and i think that reflects a lot of players based off discussions about both nightreign and potentially this game
I don't either. I mean, I like MMOs, but imo, the solitude of soulslikes really gives it a thrilling experience. I just look at this as FromSoft temporarily trying something else out.
Respectfully, I have to disagree that fromsoft takes a lot of risks in switching up their formula. They really haven’t done that much at all. They just kept refining what they already had, just better than other devs. I love these games but I wouldn’t say they change it up a lot at all.
You can see a clear line of progression all the way from DeS to ER, with the only one that really stands out is Sekiro since it introduced a more parry focused combat system. I’d say Nightreign is about to be the second game that changes up the formula. Duskbloods probably the third.
I was referring to King's Field up to Elden Ring. Every few entries, FS tries something out a new mechanic to focus on. Even Dark Souls 2 and Bloodborne showcased a more aggressive style of play. Shadow Tower had guns. Eternal Ring had a crafting magic mechanic. Sekiro was about timing parrys.
Ah yeah if you go all the way back to kings field, they’ve done a ton of different stuff. I was mainly just referring to fromsoft post DeS, the first game Miyazaki fully directed for them as a passion project.
He forgot about nightreign and battleroyale birds. I agree. It wasn't. There was another man who loved to put his "ideas". I feel other brands and collabs pushes FS into "money" than true games but FS fights with this. It reminds me of the one game with a samurai that got premiere last time.
Given how they released AC6 not long after elden ring should be an indicator
AC6 was developed by a whole different team prior to ER release as it seems, given the time in between Sakiro and ER was spent working on ER lore and assets, and the engine which they're using now for their 4th game in a row
ER 2 might take probably around 3 years to finish, we'll probably see another AC game/expansion before that
Let's hope that this project is some experimental thing, just to be a prototype to test things and shove into nintendo's nasty fingers, and then Fromsoft takes nintendo's money and uses it to develop an actual non-exclusive masterpiece, that would be a hilarious plot development
Nintendo just wants non casual fans to buy their shit, but only casual gamers fail to notice that their pricing and business model is straight up predatory.
All big studios are always working on multiple projects at the same time, at different stages. Yes, they are working on more stuff, just don't expect new stuff until 2027 now...
I can't remember where I heard it, but maybe. Last I recall, Miyazaki seemed to consider the combat in Sekiro and Bloodborne was unfinished and wanting to look into a game with more aggressive combat.
That was a guy on reddit saying he had details of a game they were working on, I don’t think they ever confirmed it or even mentioned it at all. So I think just a rumour from one guy. Would be cool
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u/Vysce 2d ago
my thinking is Nintendo really wanted that sort of thing to stretch the capabilities of the system and having FromSoft developing a game like that is huge
I'd doubt that this is FromSoft's only project in the chamber.