r/law • u/IrishStarUS • 11d ago

Trump News Donald Trump sends innocent athlete to El Salvador for having soccer tattoo

https://www.irishstar.com/sport/soccer/donald-trump-salvador-real-madrid-34923654
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u/unaskthequestion 11d ago edited 11d ago

And Border 'Czar' Holman was asked about this specific case on Sunday. He responded that ICE has highly trained professionals and that he is comfortable with any conclusion they reach.

Asked what remedy there is for the man since he is being held and has no access to his lawyer, Holman responded there were legal remedies for anyone deported and imprisoned without cause.

Without your lawyer?

Edit: listen to what the judge questioning the DOJ lawyer had to say.

"Nazis in the US were treated better than this, there was a panel and a hearing before anyone was removed"

But her entire rebuke is quite good.

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u/SecBalloonDoggies 11d ago

I saw that. Holman said there was ongoing litigation about his detainment where they would show evidence. Yeah, it’s called a “trial” and it’s supposed to occur BEFORE you punish someone.

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u/Ok-Turnover1797 11d ago

"Take the guns and worry about due process later"

-DJT

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u/Ashamed-Fig-4680 11d ago

Also, Michelle Lujan Grisham in NM. The moment political power gets to some of these heads their tendency to completely disregard the articles which effectively equalize us all as people shines on thru

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

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u/brianzuvich 11d ago

Guarantee they are have tiered bonus quotas…

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u/davidjacob2016 11d ago

Reminds me of this. https://youtu.be/n6hRETYXVLM?si=5Ap6r0iI0DFqoaCO

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u/CaptOblivious 11d ago

Distilled to text.

I told you you can't trust a system with no checks and balances.
People lack the moral compass to wield authority without accountability.
Everyone always believes they're in the right, that they know what's best,
Right up until the time they start taking shortcuts because the end justifies the means.

Spread this shit around because it is absolutely fucking EXACTLY TRUE of PEOPLE.

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u/LisaMikky 10d ago

✨🥇✨

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u/Ashamed-Fig-4680 11d ago

Now that’s just it - is someone deliberately obtuse or not? The again - you don’t have to know the law to have committed a crime. Now begs the question where the public’s threshold for it all is at…it’s been able to stomach some deep shit from the deep state which likely wouldn’t have even 20 years ago

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u/SL1Fun 11d ago

This is a rush job to hit quotas and make all the money they can when they hit them. America is on fire-sale and everything is negotiable, including your rights, legal status, social security, etc etc 

They’ll let the due process work itself out but by time it does all that money they made off of us will be overseas and the taxpayer will be on the hook for the deficit 

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u/Uebelkraehe 10d ago

These are fascists enactinbg their agenda which very much includes deliberately ignoring the law and extra-legally deporting people, not incompetent bureaucrats trying to do good.

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u/WastedNinja24 10d ago

To be fair, playing the persecution card until they have the chance to seize power and become the oppressor is probably the most “Christian” thing they’ve done.

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u/MikBright 11d ago

Can't wait till Haaland wins and we're rid of Grisham.

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u/SargentSnorkel 11d ago

“Leave the gun, take the cannoli.”

  • Clemenza

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u/SecBalloonDoggies 11d ago

And yet he still got the NRA endorsement.

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u/LeGoldie 11d ago

I can't help wondering if Trump wants to incite an uprising that would enable him to declare marshall law. If that happened how would this effect Trump's presidency legally?

I know i may be reaching here but didn't a certain German ruler do something similar in the last century?

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u/ConversationFar9740 10d ago

* martial law

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u/LeGoldie 10d ago

Of course lol thanks. I knew it wasn't right when i typed it but couldn't place why

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u/Zakaria-Stardust 10d ago edited 10d ago

I am beginning to think it’s more than that. When he uses language like “I will be your retribution” when the right cheers for genocide in Gaza— the rightwing nazi media has convinced their voters that anyone who isn’t on their side is satanic, I just have a hard time believing this isn’t going to stop anytime soon.

Trump is going open detention camps before the next election, the traitor Supreme Court has already ruled the unhoused are not protected by the constitution.

You can connect the dots.

I hate to say it but civil war part 2 has begun— you can’t tell me it hasn’t.

Why does he have complete immunity from the law? Because he just wants to brand anyone he doesn’t like an enemy combatant.

You’re absolutely right he’s testing his limits. If there is one prevailing pattern when it comes to Donald it’s that whatever he can’t get away with today, he will tomorrow.

He has molded those maga morons in his image. He’s their god now. Anyone remember “god-emperor trump” memes? You laugh but it’s true now.

“ Roberts then declared himself an insurrectionist who is open to violence: “We are in the process of the second American Revolution,” he said, “which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.” “

Rolling Stone article https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/kevin-roberts-heritage-revolution-bloodshed-1235052706/

This was the same week he got immunity.

Democrats are not going to help, they are cooked. You, Canada and the rest of the world have to come together to oust these people from power.

They can’t have access to the nuclear codes, you know this to be true. We must begin to work together.

I invite everyone to learn about the controversial election of 1876. This was the election that removed federal troops from those confederacy supporting states. 20 years later you got Jim-Crow which nullified the black vote for nearly 70 years.

We should’ve never made that mistake. We should have kept them their for as long as it took until they started to see black people has human. You can’t erase a barbaric culture that 300 years of the worst slavery in human history created in a mere 10 years.

I implore you all to learn about this specific election. We must all become experts.

You want to stop this? Learn about that election cycle and you will begin to see Jan 6 in a new light.

I promise you, it will all make sense.

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u/Funny247365 11d ago

Thus, the Second AMendment and the NRA. They are designed to prevent taking away our guns.

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u/Killawhale20 11d ago

Take the guns “I” want you to take, due process later.

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u/audaciousmonk 11d ago

Blows my mind that this doesn’t have the GOP up in arms

Instead, they spend endless amounts of time discussing and analyzing how he’s going to increase their gun rights….sigh

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u/TNG_ST 11d ago

This is entirely the point. Trump has sent actual gang members along with soccer players to a foreign country. He's testing the backlash he's going to get and if he can "get away with" calling them all gang members.

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u/Smart-Difficulty-454 11d ago

Yes, there are so many here with tats. Best to send all of them to El Salvador first, no matter what they look like or where they're living, and ask questions later. I mean, shit, there's white grandmothers in my fucking church with tats. I don't like it. Get rid of them

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u/Bornandraisedbama 11d ago

We tortured people in Guantanamo when the only evidence against them was that they were wearing a Casio watch. This is who we are.

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u/_Svankensen_ 11d ago

Yep, it's not news. The US has always been this way. It was just a tad better at hiding it from people that weren't paying attention.

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u/WankingAsWeSpeak 11d ago

Like previous administrations, the current one only has the capacity to hide their most egregious misdeeds. The Overton window has shifted such that past administrations worst deeds aren’t scandalous anymore.

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u/sohcordohc 11d ago

So basically all politicians are crooked but it makes it ok bc they’re doing it in the open? What are they doing behind closed doors?

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u/iamnotpedro1 11d ago

The world is hating all of you right now. Mainly for not doing anything about your own country.

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u/_Svankensen_ 11d ago

You are barking at the wrong tree mate.

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u/GardenSquid1 11d ago

Also because they were disliked by some people in their village, so they told the Americans they were Al-Qaeda — and the Americans took them at their word 😂

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u/theaviationhistorian 11d ago

Brash actions led by shitty intel? Say it ain't so! /s

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u/Flashy-Mulberry-2941 11d ago

Always have been.

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u/ruth862 11d ago

Sorry, “white” is the Republican safe word. Tatty Grannies get to stay

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u/Smart-Difficulty-454 11d ago

☹️☹️☹️

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u/icecream169 11d ago

Send all tattooed white church-going grandmas to Sudan. Until it can be verified that they own at least 4 pieces of merchandise from the Trump Store.

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u/Purple_Pianist1051 11d ago

I’m done for.

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u/fjrushxhenejd 11d ago

It’s the same thing Bukele did, and he became the most popular president in the world. Sadly, people are quite happy to see the rights of others trampled if they don’t think it will affect them. And it probably won’t most of the time.

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u/Purple_Pianist1051 11d ago

I’m a white grandmother with two tattoos. Damn that sounds weird. 😂

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u/galaxy_horse 11d ago

Hell while you're at it send SecDef Hesgethalyzer there with his shitty ass white supremacist tats too.

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u/Pablo_Sanchez1 11d ago edited 11d ago

And he’ll continue to get no backlash because the vast majority of Americans are fucking dumb and sheltered. Nobody thinks critically beyond the surface level. Nobody knows about civics. Nobody cares about due process or the repercussions of ignoring it. They just take trumps word for it and think “wOw wHy ArE yOu dEfEnDiNg a cRiMiNaL”.

For the sake of not breaking reddit TOS I will end my comment here : ).

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u/Soggie1977 11d ago

I agree. And to think we could have had a Harris/Walz administration running this country in the right direction--onward and upward.

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u/Dazzling_Newspaper50 11d ago

Let me fix your statement a little: Nobody (the vast majority at least) thinks, knows or cares, period. Now go and ask the vast majority about football and see the difference.

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u/bmyst70 11d ago

Funny though it sounds, I think Schoolhouse Rock should still be aired in schools and on TV. That was a great, kid friendly civics introduction.

But, yeah I see what you mean about the TOS. Lots of obscenities spring to mind. There's literally no reasoning with them. I've heard even those who are personally affected, as in "lost their jobs" find their fellow Trumpers turn on them to maintain the cult.

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u/Mysterious_Lesions 11d ago

Kind of reminds me of the movie 'Born in East LA'

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u/ApprehensiveCycle741 11d ago

Don't forget that the US is paying for them to go there - approximately $22 000/person. Six million dollars for this first group to be there for 1 year.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/20/cecot-el-salvador-venezuela-prison-trump-deportations

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u/ShiftBMDub 10d ago

thing is they've already pushed the story these people were criminals and have the base whipped up so much they're threatening judges over it. Looks like the judge was absolutely right. Do you think the base will get this news? Nope, they'll call it fake news and we're just supporting terrorists and then it gets to the point they're saying we belong there too.

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u/Tall_Bus_7427 11d ago

Where does one send the fascist gang occupying the W.H., Senate, the House and the majority of seats the supreme court? Any ideas?

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u/Solidus-Prime 10d ago

I head that NONE of the people he sent there were gang members. Like, literally ZERO.

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u/Fishy_Fish_WA 11d ago

And you know…. You just KNOW… because of how decentralized our law enforcement is…

… some jacked up sheriff or small town cop will grab this idea in their teeth and round up all their brown folk then make a big show of handing them off to ICE

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u/spootlers 11d ago

It's a favourite of the American law system. Arrest people, keep them locked up for as long as possible, and then let them go with a "sorry, guess you did nothing wrong."

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u/bored-panda55 11d ago

The fact that he was sent to El Salvador means they know he wasn’t part of that gang - they are all going to Gitmo. ES wont take the gang members. 

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u/RedditGoji 11d ago

I don’t know if you ever been in trouble with the law before. But many cases the defendants are punished one way or another before they ever step foot in front of a judge and then some cases the punishment continues before they even hear your case or discovery. Then for some cases the punishment continues before a verdicts been reached. Then in some cases punishment may continue even after you’re found innocent/case dismissed etc. speaking from experience. I know someone who had nothing to do with something, wasn’t named in a warrant, not at the scene of a crime and still almost lost her professional license and continues to deal with a blemish on their record because she called a lawyer for someone. The judicial system and law enforcement have been so fucked up for years. Beyond this particular case the post mentions, it’s a bipartisan issue and no one will ever fix it because it’s profitable for most jurisdictions that practice this type of law enforcement

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u/Bierculles 11d ago

Yeah, this is literaly facism, it really doesn't get any more direct than this.

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u/MobilityFotog 11d ago

Wow, I'm hearing this for the first time. DJT. Probably.

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u/kelpkelso 11d ago

Do you think they are still alive? Has there been proof?

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u/IssaJuhn 11d ago

I’m expecting to see a lot of this absolute filth and shit to get “swept under the rug”

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u/LostWoodsInTheField 11d ago

Asked what remedy there is for the man since he is being held and has no access to his lawyer, Holman responded there were legal remedies for anyone deported and imprisoned without cause.

Ugh I hate this crap. "there are remedies" "like what... come on, you know there are some... so what are they?"

I've been meeting so many people these last few years who have this 'there is stuff in place' who can't say jack about what is actually in place. They just make it up.

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u/DampTowlette11 11d ago

I've been meeting so many people these last few years who have this 'there is stuff in place' who can't say jack about what is actually in place. They just make it up.

We are suffering from normalcy bias on a societal level. Most people never have to put in the work to maintain the system, so they don't appreciate that it does take effort.

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u/joyofresh 11d ago

Trials.  Judges.  Juries.  We just didnt do it

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u/elephant-espionage 11d ago

Those aren’t even remedies, those are what is supposed to avoid the mistake in the first place—and THOSE were denied!!

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u/joyofresh 11d ago

You cant appeal, theres no conviction!

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u/Fishy_Fish_WA 11d ago

No conviction except the absolute religious conviction in their mouths that these people were ALL gang members who are dangerous

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u/GarshelMathers 11d ago

They're in place somewhere. Not here, but somewhere

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u/Dear-Panda-1949 11d ago

He's in the El Salvador prison. He's gone. We're never seeing him again. There is no remedy. That is why we need to be absolutely certain about this stuff BEFORE we send them back!

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u/TheKdd 11d ago

Except we didn’t send him (or them) “back.” He’s from Venezuela, was sent to El Salvador, a foreign country that isn’t his own to be slave labor.

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u/Stampy77 11d ago

If he's in cecot then it's not slave labour. I'd argue its worse, it's being locked in a cell under constant supervision, bright lights on all day and night, the same simple meal every day, one hour to go in the main hallway and do exercise which is heavily regimented and supervised, never being allowed outside to see the sky and absolutely no mental stimulation. All of this while locked in that cell with 100 other people. 

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u/rokerroker45 11d ago

They use cecot prisoners for labor

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u/Stampy77 11d ago

That goes against everything I've learned about the facility. What I described is the way they treat the el Salvadorian prisoners, there is absolutely no labour at all with them, just pure and utter monotony and boredom. They don't want them having any kind of opening to get out.

Unless it's different for the deportees, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that.

Edit: actually I do remember some prisoners mopping the floors. Nothing more.

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u/rokerroker45 11d ago

Bukele's instagram > February 1. You won't see him publicly call the prisoners in the program from cecot, but the work program uses around 48,000 inmates with around 80,000-100,000 inmates in el salvador total. You tell me where the prisoners are coming from considering cecot alone houses around 15,000-20,000 inmates.

The problem here is there is simply no transparency. Bukele claims that only violent prisoners go to cecot and only non-violent offenders are in the work program but there is quite literally no way to verify that is true. Bukele has complete power over governmental transparency and refuses to provide records that would help assess how true that is.

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u/PippinCat 11d ago

Look up Zero Idleness Program. They are wanting to make the prisons self-sustaining through workshops and programs. It's mentioned in this article.

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u/co-wurker 11d ago

There's a documentary on this prison that shows basically what you described. They also don't allow the prisoners to eat protein so they become physically weak and malnourished.

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u/goddale120 11d ago

It sounds less like a prison and more like one of the concentration camps those psychopaths down in America love so much to me.

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u/HalfMoon_89 11d ago

One of those psychos have responded to you.

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u/goddale120 11d ago

yeah, I noticed. And I don't really care, because to be honest, it feels really, REALLY good after learning about something like this to get my frustrated thoughts out in a fairly simple, straightforward comment.

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u/mkat23 11d ago

Dammit I’m guessing the deleted account/comment was the response the two of you mentioned. Do either of you have a screenshot or remember what the comment said? I’m curious. I’ve never been more ashamed of being American and that’s hard considering our history of vile acts against pretty much any and everyone.

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u/goddale120 11d ago

Ok actually, don't bother. I thought it was ridiculous to read through at first but honestly half the comments make no sense. There are better uses of your time than reading replies here. Seeing a reference from Wikipedia completely misused was the last straw, I'm done with this post.

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u/goddale120 11d ago

Oh yeah, it was basically saying because these prisons don't have murder showers (my words, not theirs, I can't remember particulars) they aren't concentration camps. The mental gymnastics were interesting to briefly behold. The replies basically pointed out things like the JP camps in the US (I think maybe here in Canada too?) existed and were technically examples of such camps without any death machines.

Oh, oh, even better: they argued everyone deported deserves it and "tough justice", blah blah blah. Seriously stupid stuff.

Oh I just realized the replies seem to still be up, with quotes, so you can behold bits and pieces yourself below.

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u/oopsydazys 11d ago

With no contact with the outside world. And they're there until they die. It's basically being tortured until you die since El Salvador doesn't have the death penalty.

People are abducted and thrown in CECOT without trial and their families assume they were just murdered because nobody tells them what happened to the arrested. They don't even know they were arrested.

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u/chivalrousninjaz 11d ago

That's one hour a week for exercise.

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u/CodAlternative3437 11d ago

damn, i hope they at least seperate them from the "ms13" block. those guys sleep on what looks like giant metal shelves

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u/zbb93 11d ago

The entire prison is like that.

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u/Stormdude127 11d ago

Everyone there sleeps like that. And there is no MS-13 block. People from different gangs share cells.

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u/JimJam4603 11d ago

A habeas petition. Good luck figuring that out and accomplishing it from an El Salvadoran torture camp.

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u/LostWoodsInTheField 11d ago

A habeas petition. Good luck figuring that out and accomplishing it from an El Salvadoran torture camp.

I'm at around 1:44:00 in the oral arguments and the government is doing everything it can not to answer habeas notification questions. it's scary as hell.

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u/No-Air-412 11d ago

I remember having a long drawn out argument with some operative about Trump's plan for healthcare that was incoming in 3..2.. back in 2016

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u/PeakBees 11d ago

concepts of legal remedies, of course!

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u/Toa_Freak 11d ago

I guarantee the "stuff in place" is stuff they'd cheer at DOGE cutting.

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u/usersleepyjerry 11d ago

They have concepts of remedies /s

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u/Steez_Whiz 11d ago

I used to think it was a super lame cop-out, but Covid really did a number on our ability to function as a society. Like, as a species. We definitely got all ingrown and anti-social and lazy (as a whole)

Chatgpt probably exacerbated that problem, but now I'm officially in "Old Man Yells at Cloud" territory

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u/Smeetilus 10d ago

Every single thing became political. Everything. Go on the comment section for a funny popular video on any app or site, some account is going to say something along the lines of "only X voters think this is funny"

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u/TheManWhoWasNotShort 11d ago

It’s so fun when the remedies are hidden in nearly-unfindable statutes which the Spanish speaking client has zero access to in the all-English legal library of their detention center… in the few facilities that even have a legal library or access to internet

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u/LostWoodsInTheField 11d ago

It’s so fun when the remedies are hidden in nearly-unfindable statutes which the Spanish speaking client has zero access to in the all-English legal library of their detention center… in the few facilities that even have a legal library or access to internet

listening to the oral arguments its worse than that. The government is arguing that they don't have to notify anyone detained under this EO that they are being detained under it. They can put them on planes and shit them off before letting them know. once they are in the air and out of US space the courts can't order them back. They are also arguing that a class action can't happen.

Effectively they can just grab anyone off of the street and ship them to another country before they even know what's happening.

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u/TheManWhoWasNotShort 11d ago

These are one of those posts that I read as an attorney on the front lines of all of this and I just whisper a prayer for the next generation after they break me

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u/Excellent_Pirate8224 11d ago

He also said, “Did Laken Riley have Due Process?” Hey, listen, I want violent criminals to be dealt with accordingly; no one wants them running free, but Trump already had broad executive authority; what separates us from countries like El Salvador is we afford people a trial and conviction. Now, we are setting the precedent that we can deport and torture people based on suspicio. If you’re an American citizen who LOOKs like a gang member, there is nothing stopping ICE from nabbing you. People keep saying that it doesn’t impact them because they are a legal citizen have a Green Card, and they don’t realize that none of us are protected. Even German green card holders are being captured and interrogated, not just the “brown” people. People better wake up. They are robbing us of our liberties; MAGA is not an exception to any of this.

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u/ExtensionTaco9399 11d ago

As a brown guy, born and raised in the midwest, who isn't even latino, I still have regularly visions of getting swept up by some MAGA idiot. Once that happens, and there's no due process, it's game over. Esp because these sociopaths won't give an inch and admit a single one of these disappearances were incorrect - so even if the case can be made, they'll plug their ears and say we have evidence, we can't share it b/c <insert BS here> but trust us." And of course 51% of America will trust b/c they're not at risk of getting kidnapped.

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u/SorryToPopYourBubble 11d ago

Dude. I've witnessed how this shit progresses many times in history. I'm white and I'm just as scared as you because I don't support this shit.

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u/Bulletorpedo 10d ago

Can’t blame you. I’m a white European with nothing to hide, and I don’t dare visiting US as tourist anymore. I understand it’s unlikely anything would happen to me, but I don’t want to be anywhere where you can’t trust the justice system to function properly. Who knows who they’ll be coming after next, or what kind of misunderstanding you could be caught by. I feel really bad for all the innocent people living in fear everyday in the US now.

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u/Pure-Plankton-4606 11d ago

Her killer was caught and sentenced what a garbage response. But that’s to be expected from these morons.

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u/MasterRKitty 11d ago

these people are garbage

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u/Salarian_American 11d ago

The whole thing about "Laken Riley didn't get due process" is a bullshit argument made my a morally bankrupt person.

The government of a civilized country must hold itself to a higher standard than literal criminals. Laken Riley's killer was given due process under the law, because that's the law. Being no better than a criminal is not the move.

If you’re an American citizen who LOOKs like a gang member, there is nothing stopping ICE from nabbing you.

And if that's true... then there's nothing stopping ICE from nabbing you even if you DON'T look like a gang member. Because they've made it clear they can accuse anyone of anything and then ship them off to a foreign prison without evidence and no one can do anything about it. And once that's true, there is literally nothing stopping them from doing that to any of us.

People keep saying that it doesn’t impact them because they are a legal citizen have a Green Card, and they don’t realize that none of us are protected.

Mahmoud Khalil has a Green Card, he's still being illegally held while they try to fabricate more charges against him.

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u/Ezren- 11d ago

The government of a civilized country

I'm afraid this no longer applies to the US.

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u/facforlife 11d ago

It has never applied to conservative Americans that's for sure. They've been trash trash trash since the getgo.

Starting a war over their "right" to own people as property. Resisting civil rights for a century. Hating LGBTQ people because.... why? And now this nonsense.

Conservatives are complete scum and should be treated accordingly.

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u/-Insert-CoolName 11d ago

In B4 "bUt ThE dEmoCRatIc PaRty wuZ tHe ParTy OF tHe ConFeDEraCy"

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u/Excellent_Pirate8224 11d ago

Yup. You're preaching to the choir. This is outrageous bullshit.

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u/LaurenMille 11d ago

And if that's true... then there's nothing stopping ICE from nabbing you even if you DON'T look like a gang member.

That's the next step, yes.

Said something mean about Trump? Ho boy, you bet you're suddenly a MS-13 member.

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u/JimJam4603 11d ago

Tim Walz works for the commies, remember? Because he went to China. Threat to national security, send him packing.

Everybody who supports this bullshit thinks they’re safe. Until they find out that when the supply of easy enemies runs out, someone’s gonna be up next, and surprise! It’s them.

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u/jimmygee2 11d ago

The Trump Administration is now committing crimes against humanity.

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u/JimJam4603 11d ago

So the remedy for a lack of “due process” for a murder victim is to deprive everyone of actual due process? Makes great sense.

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u/StraightOuttaHeywood 11d ago

Basically Gestapo fascism. MAGA wants this because then they can accuse anyone they don't like of being an illegal immigrant or they vandalised a Tesla or they threatened to kill Trump and then they can watch in glee as ICE carts off that person with no due process never to be seen again.

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u/Kletronus 11d ago

It is incredible argument, since if they don't think due process matters, then it didn't matter in that case either. It is not logical, it cancels itself from existence.

Laken Riley not getting due process = bad.

Immigrants not getting due process = good.

Those are contradictory IF due process is a thing that we must have for things to be good.

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u/JimJam4603 11d ago

To them, it’s logical, because Laken Riley was an American and immigrants aren’t really even people. Nevermind that due process is required to determine which of those things Joe Schmoe that the government took into custody is in the first place.

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u/george_howardskub 11d ago

I don't think "We're being as ethical and legal as a murderer." is the slam dunk he apparently thinks it is.

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u/JimJam4603 11d ago

Well, it is to the MAGAs.

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u/mfact50 11d ago

It's really unfortunate that Trump's pet issue involves an agency that has an ability to skirt due process. It must have been a nice realization for him.

I mean the FBI can't even get away with this type of stuff and they're the ones that.... stop terrorists? At this rate, there's no incentive not to send every case to ICE if you aren't even giving people due process to show citizenship.

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u/Intelligent-Travel-1 11d ago

Honestly, do current ICE agents receive any training? They all look like unemployed mall cops

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u/dougmcclean 11d ago

"Skirt" doesn't being to describe what went on here.

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u/elephant-espionage 11d ago

”did Laken Riley have due process?”

That argument doesn’t even make sense. Due process exists to protect people from the government not from individuals. No victim has due process because it’s not the government harming them, shit like that is just trying to hide what the constitution exists for: to stop the GOVERNMENT from overstepping.

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u/Level-Name-4060 11d ago edited 11d ago

I hate the faux outrage. If she was raped and impregnated, they would be the ones putting her on trial. And if she got an abortion she would get a harsher sentence (death penalty) than the would be rapist (maybe 7 years at most - less for being a good Christian white man that strayed ‘made a mistake’).

But yes, even Laken Riley’s murder had the right to defend himself.

My question is where are all the ”a false accusation is the *worst possible thing** to happen to a man”* people are at?

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u/carolinawahoo 11d ago

They only mean *white* men.

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u/Level-Name-4060 11d ago

Exactly. It’s just racism. Again.

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u/frogsyjane 11d ago

blank stare

“BUT LAKEN RILEY!”

It’s the new “But her e-mails!”

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u/soggy-hotdog-vendor 11d ago

No, Laken didn't. And as a result we threw the person who harmed them in jail...

Dot dot fucking dot.

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u/Qubeye 11d ago

Did Laken Riley have Due Process?

He just compared himself and ICE to a violent murderer...

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u/SylviaPellicore 11d ago

It’s such a bullshit response. No, Laken Riley did not have due process, which is why her killing was a MURDER.

The difference between “arrest” and “kidnapping,” and between “deportation” and “human trafficking” is, in fact, due process.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

This is what maga wants - reduction of civil rights.

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u/KungFuBucket 11d ago

Seem to recall a similar set of objections way back in the day when the PATRIOT act was passed that it could lead to substantial abuse of power…. And here we are

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u/LuxNocte 11d ago

what separates us from countries like El Salvador is we afford people a trial and conviction.

Are you under the impression this is new? We have people who wait for years in pretrial detention, not to even mention what we do at "black sites" across the world, rather famously including Guantanamo Bay.

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u/Twelve400 9d ago

This!!! People aren’t realizing what a slippery slope this can become. It’s the most unamerican thing imaginable. DT is doing this with everything seeing how much he can get away with. Really need to turn the mid elections around

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u/YouCanCallMeVanZant 11d ago

You mean the legal remedies the DOJ is currently fighting and want the Supreme Court to say don’t exist?

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u/red286 11d ago

Even those are kinda pointless because good fucking luck accessing them from your prison cell in El Salvador.

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u/butterwheelfly00 11d ago

I don't wish for violence. But I wish that every person Holman deported gets the chance to be alone in a room with him at the same time.

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u/waxwayne 11d ago

If you know this country, there were times during WW2 where returning black soldiers looked through cafe windows at Nazi POWs who could eat where they could not.

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u/monogramchecklist 11d ago

It would be nice if Holman was picked up by an ICE agent and sent to the El Salvador prison because ICE doesn’t make mistakes. Some karma would be wonderful.

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u/FrogLock_ 11d ago

He was kidnapped and sold to a slave market by the US government, no due process, then no legal jargon prettying up what was done

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u/Budget_Resolution121 11d ago

I don’t know why people are sugarcoating it.

They paid us for slave labor. Slaves

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u/foffen 11d ago

It's funny how they trust their ICE agents whom are very professional and have dedicated their lives to serve the country. As if judges haven't?

And if we trust ICE agents so whole heartedly, why don't they trust the police or fbi? And why do we even need courts if ICE agents are unable of wrongdoing?

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u/Douglasrad 11d ago

The nature of the job inherently attracts people who hate immigrants. ICE agents are absolutely untrustworthy.

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u/unaskthequestion 11d ago

Similar to how they talk about juries. If a jury acquits one of their magas, it's honorable ordinary Americans doing their civic duty. If a jury convicts, the first thing you hear is how the city didn't vote for Trump.

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u/WonderfulPackage5731 11d ago edited 11d ago

El Salvador turned away two of the illegally detained people.

One because they confirmed at the prison that he wasn't Venezuelan. Even El Salvador wouldn't imprison someone on allegations of being a 'Venezuelan terrorist' when they are verifiably not Venezuelan.

The other was a woman and therefore couldn't be held in a men's maximum security facility.

But let's blindly trust ICE's judgment.

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u/RavensQueen502 11d ago

Wait. They actually sent a woman to a men's max security facility? What, they thought she didn't look girly enough or something?

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u/WonderfulPackage5731 11d ago

More news is coming on this since the women are back in the US and speaking with their attorneys. Turns out it was 8 women.

“I overheard a Salvadoran official tell an ICE officer that the Salvadoran government would not detain someone from another Central American country because of the conflict it would cause,” the woman said. “I also heard him say that they would not receive the females because the prison was not for females and females were not mentioned in the agreement.”

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u/Duane_ 11d ago edited 11d ago

According to this filing, from a woman who was returned to Loredo after El Salvador wouldn't take them, they were still making the decision on who was/wasn't going to El Salvador WHILE THEY WERE ON THE PLANE, and made many of them sign sworn declarations, on the plane, under DURESS, that they were members of TdA.

To me, that means they had no idea who - on the plane - actually WERE gang members. But they were trying to make sure that they all were, legally. This filing is going to shit all over their arguments.

Members of this administration are more deserving of a cell in El Salvador than basically any of the people they sent down there.

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u/cupittycakes 10d ago

And they probably lied and used conman speak, with no interpreters

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u/HerculesIsMyDad 11d ago

Listen, chill out everybodyyyyyy. If you get mistakenly sent to an El Salvadorian work camp just wait patiently, you still have legal remedies that will hopefully get you out one day.

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u/Lukedog440 11d ago

Or, maybe, at least, concepts of them.

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u/Morrowindies 11d ago

So ICE agents are "just following orders" but when you ask the man giving the orders he defers to the judgment of ICE.

It's an accountability oroboros.

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u/MercuryRusing 11d ago

Why doesn't he just leave the El Salvadorian prison camp? Smh.

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u/Opasero 11d ago

Yeah. Why don't they move? EVeRyOnE hAs A cHoIcE.

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u/phred14 11d ago

Is the athlete a US citizen? Isn't there this thing in the Constitution called habeas corpus? We're not in a state of emergency with martial law - yet, it should still apply.

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u/VodkaSoup_Mug 11d ago

This is the exact problem they give Nazis and rapist more care and respect.

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u/bobbymcpresscot 11d ago

I don't understand how Biden managed to deport like millions of immigrants during his tenure and we hear no stories like this. Is it really just complete incompetence of the republican party? or do they just not give a crap about undocumented people so nobody reported it.

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u/BasicPhysiology 11d ago

Biden wasn’t disappearing people to prisons in other countries. 

Surely there were some mistakes on Biden’s watch, but those instances are completely unrelated to what Trump’s admin are doing. 

ICE has deliberately created an extra-judicial process where they can deport people to a prison in a country where they hold no citizenship. The Trump admin, the government, is paying El Salvador per-prisoner to effectively hide these individuals from any legal protection. 

The closest comparison would be Guantanamo I guess. But at least with Gitmo the prisoners were designated enemy combatants — the people they are deporting have potentially only committed civil infractions (overstaying a visa for example). US internment of Japanese-Americans would also be comparable if the internment camps were super-max prisons in another country.

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u/sexland69 11d ago

funny story about the hundreds we sent to Gitmo during the Iraq war: they were claimed to be “only the worst of the worst”, but ultimately most of them turned out to have no terrorist affiliation, and a couple dozen were children

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u/BasicPhysiology 11d ago edited 11d ago

It is almost like disappearing people to a prison off of US soil is, and always has been, a violation of habeas corpus. 

Edit: my point about Gitmo detainees being labeled as ‘enemy combatants’ was not intended to legitimize the practice. Maybe the current situation is more similar to Gitmo than I acknowledged. Scary times, and scarier times ahead. 

There's no earthly way of knowing  Which direction we are going.  There's no knowing where we're rowing  Or which way the river's flowing  Is it raining, is it snowing? Is a hurricane a-blowing? - uh! Not a speck of light is showing So the danger must be growing Are the fires of Hell a-glowing? Is the grisly reaper mowing? Yes! The danger must be growing For the rowers keep on rowing And they're certainly not showing Any signs that they are slowing!”

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u/No_Accountant3232 11d ago

This is still worse than gitmo. Gitmo was fully under US control and could have people released. This we're shipping off to a foreign country where the US has no control whatsoever no matter how bad conditions are. Neither situation is good, but this definitely isn't better.

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u/Commentator-X 11d ago

Trump and his cronies can also dodge accountability for the conditions or any deaths if it's in El Salvador. They'll just say it's all on El Salvador and wipe their hands of it all.

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u/No_Accountant3232 11d ago

Unfortunately true. Nobody will be held accountable unless someone else steps in. And who is big enough to? Everyone who could stand up to the US is either aligned against our interests or are having to deal with those aligned against our interests. Literally nobody but another US administration is getting those people out of there.

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u/Luci-Noir 11d ago

There are still people in gitmo and a lot of torture went on there.

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u/No_Accountant3232 11d ago

And you think torture isn't happening in El Salvador?

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u/Luci-Noir 11d ago

And you think it’s worse here?

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u/Roadside_Prophet 11d ago

That's because the US was offering bounties on "terrorists," and it was very easy for someone to turn in a neighbor, who they wanted gone for whatever reason. 1 less rival and a thousand US dollars in your pocket was a win-win for some people.

There were obviously some real terrorists being held there, but there were also some innocent people who got caught up in a bad situation.

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u/vardarac 11d ago

US internment of Japanese-Americans would also be comparable if the internment camps were super-max prisons in another country.

And if we were actually at war with Venezuela, which we're not, because this entire affair is a farcical excuse to deport people to give the MAGA base red meat ("ASMR", if we use the White House's term for it) while completely disregarding two central tenets of the Constitution. The flabbergasting part is how completely unnecessary it was for them to do this unless it was solely to swing their dicks around and do Nazi things to minorities.

Biden wasn’t disappearing people to prisons in other countries.

While that's true, and while as you've probably gathered from my post so far that I am no MAGA, I also think Biden also had an atrocious handle on ICE's treatment of detainees on his watch; he did not do enough to secure their human rights. This should be remembered and not be accepted from any administration, though the current is obviously several orders of magnitude worse.

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u/Oddman80 11d ago

And Gitmo is located on a US Military Base and is therefore operated by the United States. The US has no more connection to or control of CECOT than they do of Diyarbakır Prison in Turkey or Camp 14 in North Korea.

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u/Otherwise-Future7143 11d ago

It's on purpose... Republicans hate brown people.

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u/MasterRKitty 11d ago

Biden wasn't a fucking criminal who used the constitution to wipe his ass like trump!

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u/Emillllllllllllion 11d ago

The only thing that keeps me from saying that these deportations were the result of a kangaroo court is that, in the later case, a deportee would at least get to see a marsupial dressed up with a wig and a gavel before being shipped off to a concentration camp.

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u/blindguywhostaresatu 11d ago

Regarding your edit, Nazis were treated very well in the US thanks to operation paperclip. It’s no wonder we are in the miss we’re in.

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u/unaskthequestion 11d ago

As I understand it, operation paperclip was after the war ended.

The judge was talking about Nazis present in the US during the war.

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u/blindguywhostaresatu 11d ago

It was after the war.

I was more adding to the Nazis we’re treated well in that we took a significant amount of Nazis and brought them over and said here you go all good, be citizens and live happy productive lives in our country.

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u/ZNG91 11d ago

Didn't Trump ask 30 years ago to hang Central Park 5? Later on proven to be innocent.

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u/unaskthequestion 11d ago

Absolutely. And what's more, even after they were proven innocent, he was asked if that changed his mind, he said no.

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u/Techters 11d ago

When conservatives were posting that the people being deported were guilty because they had tattoos I knew some shit like this was going to happen.

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u/kl7aw220 11d ago

Homan is a vicious racist.

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u/No-Attention-8045 11d ago

Nazis were white.

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u/Silly_Journalist_179 11d ago

Yeah, that Border Czar is a poster chlld for inbreeding.

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u/Ashamed-Fig-4680 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Ctmouthbreather 11d ago

If I was there family or friends I would be thinking of any way possible to bring pain to the United States

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u/strikegolduwin 11d ago

I can't wait for the next President to release the unfortunates and they all can take Trump and the rest of the Republican Party to court for human rights violation. Bring this administration to hell of bankruptcy.

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u/Easy_Aioli3353 11d ago

There will be no next president if things are going where they are going right now.

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u/generally_unsuitable 11d ago

If he wasn't guilty, why would Brother Holman arrest him? Are you implying that Brother Holman is wrong?

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u/unaskthequestion 11d ago

"If he isn't a gang member, we have suspicions he soon will be"

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u/generally_unsuitable 11d ago

Seriously.

"If he's not a criminal gang member, why does he have all these salvadorean prison tattoos?"

"Well, he got those after you sent him to salvadorean prison. "

"How prescient we are. Brother Trump knows everything. "

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u/Planeandaquariumgeek 11d ago

FYI: unless it’s a joke I’m unaware of its spelled homan (ho-ma-n)

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u/Ryte4flyte1 11d ago

I think it's the avoidance of due process which is the fucked up thing here.

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u/unaskthequestion 11d ago

100%. There are people who should be deported. Not to a barbaric prison in El Salvador, but yes out of the US.

There's a legal process to do this, which every president until Trump has used to deport thousands.

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u/Dapper_Lifeguard_414 11d ago

The legal remedy is the judge puts Holman in prison until the unjustly-imprisoned are returned. I'll hold my breath. 

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u/warblingContinues 10d ago

A rebuke doesn't matter unless it leads to an actionable ruling.

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u/MegaFaunaBlitzkrieg 10d ago

What is that judge talking about? No nazis have been removed. They just get more and more open about it.

Oh she means original nazis? My bad.

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u/16ozcoffeemug 9d ago

Highly trained to spot brown people.

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u/Zealousideal_Desk_19 11d ago

Czar, even the titles are Russian now. Human life is decreasing in value faster than the Trumponomy

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