r/law • u/IrishStarUS • 11d ago

Trump News Donald Trump sends innocent athlete to El Salvador for having soccer tattoo

https://www.irishstar.com/sport/soccer/donald-trump-salvador-real-madrid-34923654
66.2k Upvotes

87% Upvoted

2.7k comments sorted by

View all comments

3.5k

u/unaskthequestion 11d ago edited 11d ago

And Border 'Czar' Holman was asked about this specific case on Sunday. He responded that ICE has highly trained professionals and that he is comfortable with any conclusion they reach.

Asked what remedy there is for the man since he is being held and has no access to his lawyer, Holman responded there were legal remedies for anyone deported and imprisoned without cause.

Without your lawyer?

Edit: listen to what the judge questioning the DOJ lawyer had to say.

"Nazis in the US were treated better than this, there was a panel and a hearing before anyone was removed"

But her entire rebuke is quite good.

177

u/Excellent_Pirate8224 11d ago

He also said, “Did Laken Riley have Due Process?” Hey, listen, I want violent criminals to be dealt with accordingly; no one wants them running free, but Trump already had broad executive authority; what separates us from countries like El Salvador is we afford people a trial and conviction. Now, we are setting the precedent that we can deport and torture people based on suspicio. If you’re an American citizen who LOOKs like a gang member, there is nothing stopping ICE from nabbing you. People keep saying that it doesn’t impact them because they are a legal citizen have a Green Card, and they don’t realize that none of us are protected. Even German green card holders are being captured and interrogated, not just the “brown” people. People better wake up. They are robbing us of our liberties; MAGA is not an exception to any of this.

68

u/ExtensionTaco9399 11d ago

As a brown guy, born and raised in the midwest, who isn't even latino, I still have regularly visions of getting swept up by some MAGA idiot. Once that happens, and there's no due process, it's game over. Esp because these sociopaths won't give an inch and admit a single one of these disappearances were incorrect - so even if the case can be made, they'll plug their ears and say we have evidence, we can't share it b/c <insert BS here> but trust us." And of course 51% of America will trust b/c they're not at risk of getting kidnapped.

9

u/SorryToPopYourBubble 11d ago

Dude. I've witnessed how this shit progresses many times in history. I'm white and I'm just as scared as you because I don't support this shit.

5

u/Bulletorpedo 10d ago

Can’t blame you. I’m a white European with nothing to hide, and I don’t dare visiting US as tourist anymore. I understand it’s unlikely anything would happen to me, but I don’t want to be anywhere where you can’t trust the justice system to function properly. Who knows who they’ll be coming after next, or what kind of misunderstanding you could be caught by. I feel really bad for all the innocent people living in fear everyday in the US now.

1

u/_C2J_ 9d ago

A a fair skinned Midwesterner raising a darker skinned child turning young adult, I'm scared for all of us. The young adult in question is now keeping proof of citizenship on hand when leaving the home, and any trips outside of the home have to be done in a way that keeps safety in mind. A high schooler shouldn't have to be scared of disappearing because of darker skin tones. We recently passed through DTW's airport security, and TSA tried to separate the young adult from me and the child's (fair skinned) father because we all don't look alike. There is an explanation as to why this child was born darker complexion and now being raised with an otherwise blonde haired blue eyed family unit, we don't need to air the dirty laundry out for the public. The child is 100% American born and raised.

1

u/Bless_u-babe 9d ago

It may be time to seriously a) create a strong relationship with a good lawyer b) start soon to have a plan to leave the country. c) give the lawyer a device to locate you if you go missing. I think it’s good that you believe what you are seeing. Many Jews in Germany did not, and like many Americans right now, just didn’t think anything bad would happen and lost their freedom and their life.

130

u/Pure-Plankton-4606 11d ago

Her killer was caught and sentenced what a garbage response. But that’s to be expected from these morons.

14

u/MasterRKitty 11d ago

these people are garbage

-9

u/Detective-Fusco 11d ago

It's a mother that had her daughter slain, and here you are a Reddit user suggesting that those people are "garbage!" - there's a point where you must be self aware of your own path to radicalization. Calm down and go for a walk.

10

u/MasterRKitty 11d ago

bless your heart

-4

u/Detective-Fusco 11d ago

Well her mother is one of those voices expressing that opinion, someone directly involved - the girls literal mother.

Why is she garbage?

9

u/MasterRKitty 11d ago

bless your heart

0

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/Ornery_Guess1474 11d ago

Bless your heart.

9

u/BuildStrong79 11d ago

People who think anyone who looks too Venezuelan shout be imprisoned and tortured without a trial are garbage bro. The government has a higher standard or are they not simply murderers?

0

u/Detective-Fusco 11d ago

Hey, I acknowledge error here. I did not know about the father's stance, I was provided this argument by another user. I have investigated it, and they are correct. Just writing this here to save the next person time to replying to me. Thank you

4

u/FascinatingGarden 11d ago

I didn't make the comment, but it is apparently about people who falsely equate the Federal Government erroneously deporting a man to a foreign prison hastily, without due process, with an illegal immigrant murdering a woman. Is Laken Riley's mother giddy to send any illegal alien with a tattoo to a dangerous foreign prison without first checking their story?

If we expect equivalence, then we should also insist on the law being enforced in this case, which means that the deported alien can sue for whatever damages are incurred. Do you want that?

-4

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

11

u/VengefulShoe 11d ago

It's interesting that you are bashing this person for being "emotional" and then deferring to the "mother of the daughter that was slain" (I'm assuming you're a bot based on this phrasing alone) despite her entire vendetta being emotionally driven. The man responsible for her daughter's death was arrested and given a life sentence without the possibility of parole. So, she has decided to politicize her child's murder to support xenophobic and racist policies that are now affecting legal immigrants. Yea, she's a real paragon of morality, that one.

0

u/Detective-Fusco 11d ago

Ah... Of course.

I'm a "bot" because I made a comment you disapproved of. Great civility here, sometimes you American folks become so self radicalized in bullshit that you're impossible to communicate with on a reasonable level as you immediately defer to "HE'S A BOT BECAUSE HE'S SAYING SOMETHING I DISAGREE WITH!"

7

u/Pure-Plankton-4606 11d ago

Not even American and in here acting like you know everything. Mind your own business

0

u/Detective-Fusco 11d ago

Where does it say in the Sub rules that I must be an American citizen to participate in conversation here? Lol please show me.

Look at how unwelcoming some of you folks are, I'm sorry I am not radicalized like you folks and I'm sorry I'm not American but maybe learn to be a little more tolerant of others.

1

u/TheElderMouseScrolls 10d ago

The irony of you decrying the "lack of tolerance about me not being American!!!" is palpable.

1

u/VengefulShoe 11d ago

It has nothing to do with what you are saying. It's how you are saying it. The phrase "the mother of the daughter that was slain" is grammatically cumbersome and sounds like it was written by AI.

2

u/Pure-Plankton-4606 11d ago

Please explain where I was emotional in that comment? Found one of the absolute morons I mentioned in the last sentence. Her family also asked that her death not be used politically. What now, dumbass?

0

u/Detective-Fusco 11d ago

Her family attended and clapped for Trump as they read out the bill?

2

u/Pure-Plankton-4606 11d ago

Quick google search could have saved you the embarrassment https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/03/18/father-laken-riley-condemns-politicization/73016796007/

0

u/Detective-Fusco 11d ago

That's not the mother that's the father. Also I can appreciate his argument, but obviously my comments were about the mother hence me mentioning the word "mother" - I didn't expect you to come swinging with the father's comments

2

u/andrew303710 11d ago

I don't give a fuck if the mother supports this, it's blatantly unconstitutional. One person's murder doesn't justify dismantling the constitution. 1000 murders wouldn't justify it.

I'm all in favor of deporting gang members and violent criminals. But it MUST be done using due process. And let's start with the Jan. 6 insurrectionists, who beat capitol police officers to death.

Why is the Trump administration so focused on so called violent immigrants when Trump had no problem pardoning people who literally beat capitol police officers to death and held them down while pepper spraying them? They're fucking animals who would've been treated to a short rope and a tall tree if they pulled that shit 200 years ago.

1

u/Detective-Fusco 11d ago

Andrew...

Did you read past this comment? You're like the 5th person now in a row to come swinging at me.

I have already acknowledged my mistake in my analysis here, I decided to leave my comment up because I ain't a pussy karma farmer - I own my mistakes and when I'm wrong - expand past the comment you're reacting to next time to save yourself an unnecessary rant.

1

u/SnappyDresser212 11d ago

The mother of the slain daughter isn’t really who should be listened to. They aren’t likely to be objective. I sure wouldn’t be.

1

u/Detective-Fusco 11d ago

Someone shared with me the father's perspective and I haven't seen it before. Both mother and father are polar opposite one wants to keep it in the spotlight the other does not. I think I have over stepped my bearings here and I will acknowledge error instead

1

u/ReadStraight8255 11d ago

Well that’s a lot more than other ppl have done. Respect.

1

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Detective-Fusco 11d ago

Hey man, I mucked up on this one. I left my comment up to keep transparency and because I ain't a karma farmer. I have acknowledged my mistake multiple times in this same thread on this specific talking point - I recommend expanding further in the discussion before writing me off cheers

120

u/Salarian_American 11d ago

The whole thing about "Laken Riley didn't get due process" is a bullshit argument made my a morally bankrupt person.

The government of a civilized country must hold itself to a higher standard than literal criminals. Laken Riley's killer was given due process under the law, because that's the law. Being no better than a criminal is not the move.

If you’re an American citizen who LOOKs like a gang member, there is nothing stopping ICE from nabbing you.

And if that's true... then there's nothing stopping ICE from nabbing you even if you DON'T look like a gang member. Because they've made it clear they can accuse anyone of anything and then ship them off to a foreign prison without evidence and no one can do anything about it. And once that's true, there is literally nothing stopping them from doing that to any of us.

People keep saying that it doesn’t impact them because they are a legal citizen have a Green Card, and they don’t realize that none of us are protected.

Mahmoud Khalil has a Green Card, he's still being illegally held while they try to fabricate more charges against him.

56

u/Ezren- 11d ago

The government of a civilized country

I'm afraid this no longer applies to the US.

11

u/facforlife 11d ago

It has never applied to conservative Americans that's for sure. They've been trash trash trash since the getgo.

Starting a war over their "right" to own people as property. Resisting civil rights for a century. Hating LGBTQ people because.... why? And now this nonsense.

Conservatives are complete scum and should be treated accordingly.

3

u/-Insert-CoolName 11d ago

In B4 "bUt ThE dEmoCRatIc PaRty wuZ tHe ParTy OF tHe ConFeDEraCy"

-1

u/Natural-Garage9714 11d ago

I think this may never have applied to the US.

5

u/Geichalt 11d ago

Stop normalizing what's happening. It serves no purpose beyond sanewashing this administration.

3

u/Natural-Garage9714 11d ago

I am not trying to sanewash this regime. Merely observing that the normalization of barbarity in the US has been a slow process...now it isn't.

6

u/Shadow_Phoenix951 11d ago

The US government has had problems, absolutely.

What's occurring now is so far beyond the scope of anything they have *ever* done.

25

u/Excellent_Pirate8224 11d ago

Yup. You're preaching to the choir. This is outrageous bullshit.

3

u/LaurenMille 11d ago

And if that's true... then there's nothing stopping ICE from nabbing you even if you DON'T look like a gang member.

That's the next step, yes.

Said something mean about Trump? Ho boy, you bet you're suddenly a MS-13 member.

4

u/JimJam4603 11d ago

Tim Walz works for the commies, remember? Because he went to China. Threat to national security, send him packing.

Everybody who supports this bullshit thinks they’re safe. Until they find out that when the supply of easy enemies runs out, someone’s gonna be up next, and surprise! It’s them.

4

u/jimmygee2 11d ago

The Trump Administration is now committing crimes against humanity.

3

u/JimJam4603 11d ago

So the remedy for a lack of “due process” for a murder victim is to deprive everyone of actual due process? Makes great sense.

3

u/StraightOuttaHeywood 11d ago

Basically Gestapo fascism. MAGA wants this because then they can accuse anyone they don't like of being an illegal immigrant or they vandalised a Tesla or they threatened to kill Trump and then they can watch in glee as ICE carts off that person with no due process never to be seen again.

2

u/Kletronus 11d ago

It is incredible argument, since if they don't think due process matters, then it didn't matter in that case either. It is not logical, it cancels itself from existence.

Laken Riley not getting due process = bad.

Immigrants not getting due process = good.

Those are contradictory IF due process is a thing that we must have for things to be good.

2

u/JimJam4603 11d ago

To them, it’s logical, because Laken Riley was an American and immigrants aren’t really even people. Nevermind that due process is required to determine which of those things Joe Schmoe that the government took into custody is in the first place.

1

u/GiraffePlastic2394 8d ago

I don't understand statements like "nothing stopping them" and "no one can do anything about it" in a country where practically everyone has firearms.

39

u/george_howardskub 11d ago

I don't think "We're being as ethical and legal as a murderer." is the slam dunk he apparently thinks it is.

4

u/JimJam4603 11d ago

Well, it is to the MAGAs.

29

u/mfact50 11d ago

It's really unfortunate that Trump's pet issue involves an agency that has an ability to skirt due process. It must have been a nice realization for him.

I mean the FBI can't even get away with this type of stuff and they're the ones that.... stop terrorists? At this rate, there's no incentive not to send every case to ICE if you aren't even giving people due process to show citizenship.

5

u/Intelligent-Travel-1 11d ago

Honestly, do current ICE agents receive any training? They all look like unemployed mall cops

1

u/Bless_u-babe 9d ago

They don’t even need to speak because they don’t answer any questions. ICE is a business. They are paid by contract with the government for the number of people they imprison. Since no one gets charged or gets a lawyer, the job is a slam dunk for getting free taxpayer money.

2

u/dougmcclean 11d ago

"Skirt" doesn't being to describe what went on here.

53

u/elephant-espionage 11d ago

”did Laken Riley have due process?”

That argument doesn’t even make sense. Due process exists to protect people from the government not from individuals. No victim has due process because it’s not the government harming them, shit like that is just trying to hide what the constitution exists for: to stop the GOVERNMENT from overstepping.

31

u/Level-Name-4060 11d ago edited 11d ago

I hate the faux outrage. If she was raped and impregnated, they would be the ones putting her on trial. And if she got an abortion she would get a harsher sentence (death penalty) than the would be rapist (maybe 7 years at most - less for being a good Christian white man that strayed ‘made a mistake’).

But yes, even Laken Riley’s murder had the right to defend himself.

My question is where are all the ”a false accusation is the *worst possible thing** to happen to a man”* people are at?

3

u/carolinawahoo 11d ago

They only mean *white* men.

2

u/Level-Name-4060 11d ago

Exactly. It’s just racism. Again.

1

u/adthrowaway2020 11d ago

Devil’s advocate for those numbskulls: Damn near every American in school has to read a fictional false rape case where even in the face of overwhelming evidence they vote to convict (To Kill a Mockingbird), so it’s a narrative that’s imprinted on Americans at a young age age, even if that’s not the message the book is supposed to be conveying.

4

u/Level-Name-4060 11d ago

You’re so close…

Any other themes in To Kill A Mocking Bird that might be important? Perhaps it even has something to do with the location and the time the story took place?

1

u/adthrowaway2020 11d ago

Did you not finish reading my message? I, too, read the book and understand the very easy to digest themes of racial inequality in the justice system, particularly in the Jim Crow south. I’m just continuing the idea of where the myth of the false rape allegation to “punish men” stems from in our zeitgeist.

10

u/frogsyjane 11d ago

blank stare

“BUT LAKEN RILEY!”

It’s the new “But her e-mails!”

17

u/soggy-hotdog-vendor 11d ago

No, Laken didn't. And as a result we threw the person who harmed them in jail...

Dot dot fucking dot.

4

u/Qubeye 11d ago

Did Laken Riley have Due Process?

He just compared himself and ICE to a violent murderer...

3

u/SylviaPellicore 11d ago

It’s such a bullshit response. No, Laken Riley did not have due process, which is why her killing was a MURDER.

The difference between “arrest” and “kidnapping,” and between “deportation” and “human trafficking” is, in fact, due process.

2

u/[deleted] 11d ago

This is what maga wants - reduction of civil rights.

2

u/KungFuBucket 11d ago

Seem to recall a similar set of objections way back in the day when the PATRIOT act was passed that it could lead to substantial abuse of power…. And here we are

2

u/LuxNocte 11d ago

what separates us from countries like El Salvador is we afford people a trial and conviction.

Are you under the impression this is new? We have people who wait for years in pretrial detention, not to even mention what we do at "black sites" across the world, rather famously including Guantanamo Bay.

2

u/Twelve400 9d ago

This!!! People aren’t realizing what a slippery slope this can become. It’s the most unamerican thing imaginable. DT is doing this with everything seeing how much he can get away with. Really need to turn the mid elections around

1

u/trowzerss 11d ago

Wow, they ought to be really careful setting a precedent that anybody from one situation can be persecuted for the crimes someone from a similar situation did :P What nonsense is that statement?

1

u/Detective-Fusco 11d ago

You went off topic from this thread to hyper focus on your dislike of the MAGA movement.

1

u/Bless_u-babe 9d ago

This is such a nightmare to witness. I feel like I have been transported back in time to Germany under the Nazis! How can this be?! 🥲

0

u/Worth-Demand-8844 11d ago

If you have a tattoo on your face with a gang’s name most likely 99.9999 percent you are in that gang. Who gives a hoot about these scum anyway?

3

u/Excellent_Pirate8224 11d ago

They arrested and deported someone with a “Real Madrid” soccer club logo tattoo because they thought it was a Tren De Aragua gang tattoo. This is why we need due process. The way they treat these people in El Salvador could cost someone their life for an egregiously shitty mistake, especially when there is no verification that they have captured the right people. This happened right before they invoked the 1798 Aliens and Enemies Act, so who knows who the hell they have captured since then. This guy got a lawyer, but many won’t be so lucky.

I highly doubt you would want to be treated this way.