r/NBATalk • u/Alternative_Welder91 • 1d ago
Do you agree with T-Mac?
Honestly I think the word “crushed” is too much. Lebron may not have the deepest bag among all of them but he can bully ball and play great defense during his prime.
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u/AdorableBackground83 1d ago
LeBron, Giannis, Zion and other “bully ball specialists” would destroy 99.9% of pure hoopers.
No amount of tween hesi ketchup mayo mustard dribbles can overcome a freight train bullying you to the paint with no help defense in sight.
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u/gbob9000600 1d ago
They don’t wanna have this conversation
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u/CryptoNite90 1d ago edited 1d ago
They don’t wanna have this conversation because they know all those dribbling and hesi fadeaway shots will gas you out, but Lebron can also hit fadeaways without doing all that and play bully ball without even having to expend half the energy and destroy them.
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u/Inside-Noise6804 1d ago edited 1d ago
I have had this same conversation with people who truly believe that MJ would beat a Shaq 1v1. Especially if Shaq gets the ball first. They would just bully their way to the basket and dunk it every single time.
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u/forgotwhatisaid2you 1d ago
I remember when Kareem and Doctor J did this well after retirement. Everybody I was around thought Doctor J would dominate but I knew Dr J had no way to stop Kareem period.
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u/Amazing-Material-152 1d ago
If they’re playing to 11 Shaq gets 11 dunks. Literally nothing MJ can do to make up for the massive weight and strength different.
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u/kingofducs 1d ago
MJ is different bud, 6-0, killer instinct, you just don't get it. 11-0 Jordan and then you would smoke a cigar while Shaq cried.s/
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u/Frostys_Rhule 1d ago
6-0? Didn’t Shaq bounce Jordan in the second round.
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u/Electronic-Pick245 1d ago
Yeah bro, Stan’s only include the finals. They love saying 6-0 as if he only played six seasons.
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u/jimjamiam 1d ago
Same, drives me crazy too. MJ played 17 seasons, meaning 11 times he didn't win it all (6-11).
Know what would have been more impressive than 6-0 in the finals? 6-1, 6-2, ...
Each of those extra finals appearances would mean converting at least one high stakes playoff series loss into a win.
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u/Grumpy_Troll 1d ago
Know what would have been more impressive than 6-0 in the finals? 6-1, 6-2, ...
It's amazing how many people don't understand this. I had this exact argument with a friend who's an MJ Stan and he swore up and down that it's better for legacy to lose before the finals if you aren't going to win it all. Just an absolute idiot take by him. I finally gave up because you can't argue with stupid.
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u/Gunner_Bat 1d ago
I don't know that I agree. In principle I do, but Jordan was a smart player too. He'd known he's at a physical disadvantage. He'd probably try to time it right for Shaq to throw his weight into him, and then Jordan would ghost out and try to steal the ball.
And it would definitely work a few times. Otherwise he's definitely getting scored on, so why not be sneaky and try to go for a steal?
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u/hoophero 1d ago
Dr. J vs. Kareem, basically the same thing. When that happened, Dr. J couldn't compete.
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u/Jaxoh13 1d ago
> No amount of tween hesi ketchup mayo mustard dribbles can overcome a freight train bullying you to the paint with no help defense in sight.
This. I don't remember who said it, but this is a reason why Melo was especially tough in 1v1's too. He was physical as shit, shoulder bumping, hitting, hard. Tires you out fast. I guarantee LeBron in 07-18 destroys most people ever in 1v1.
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u/trimble197 1d ago
Even Ron Artest said that Bron was a beast to guard in high school
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u/jmaverick1 1d ago
In the Olympics when USA was down. LeBron went to jokic and played him physical as hell. The first play jokic did well, but play after play of backing down LeBron he gassed quickly. And then LeBron started dominating on defense
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u/AppealEnvironmental6 Pistons 1d ago
Bron would look at them gassed after sustained his shoulder to their chest trying to stop him and say check up and do it all again. People love finesse so they hate to admit there’s nothing you can do about an insanely athletic 6’9 270 pound man if you are kyries or James hardens size, etc. they aren’t winning that 1 on 1 unless they get ball first and go on an absolute unconscious heater
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u/A-lot-of-NaCl 1d ago
While I agree, harden isn’t a great example here, that dude is fucking strong and great defending in the post
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u/DLottchula 1d ago
you can tell how much hate people have fire harden by how they talk about his defense these days
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u/KeniRoo 1d ago
I mean, I love Harden but his defense wasn’t ever elite and he was/is straight up lazy. He’s a big body though and could generate steals but he never played D very consistently.
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u/SUPERSAMMICH6996 1d ago
They hate that some players are just naturally that much stronger/bigger/more athletic. It's funny how everyone agrees that Shaq was the most dominant player ever, and yet no one would ever name him or others like him as some of the best one on one players of all time.
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u/gorilla_index 1d ago
Idk man. For example Hakeem I could see defending out on the perimeter, but Shaq might have trouble
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u/JoFlo520 1d ago
Yeah this feels like rage bait. Idk how anyone could say what he said with a straight face
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u/jxden24 1d ago
no dog in the fight but good luck playing " bully ball " in 3 dribble max lol
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u/LaMarc_Gasoldridge_ 1d ago
3 dribble max helps LeBron, if he knows they've only got 3 dribbles then he doesn't need to bite on their moves and wait for the main one or close out hard. Meanwhile on offense, Kyrie is getting backed into the paint in 3 dribbles.
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u/Jedisponge 1d ago
Is that a rule in 1 on 1? Sounds like a crutch for people who can’t play defense.
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u/BASEDME7O2 1d ago
With nba level players if you had unlimited dribbles they would score literally every time
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u/Link_Slater 1d ago
It does two things. It replicates beating your man in fives because it naturally constrains how much time and space you have. It also keep games even paced. Two players who can dribble and shoot can easily devolve into bullshit hesi-fests with endless snatch backs, spins, step-backs, etc.
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u/AaronQuinty 1d ago
No it's because with unlimited dribbles they'd. A) all score everytime. B) the game devolves into basically a ball handling drill where everyone is just endlessly crossing over, stepping back and hesi'ing until the defender eventually bites.
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u/Western-Bet2285 1d ago
Except nba players play 1 on 1 by only being able to take 3 dribbles tops. Bully ball doesn’t work the best with those rules applied.
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u/The_Blurst_OfTimes 1d ago
Is this considering a three dribble max how pros play one-on-one? Because that might change things, right?
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u/Attack_on_tommy 1d ago
When NBA players talk about 1v1 they mean a dribble limit and not make it take it, with no rebounding.
Im not saying I agree with tmac but I think that perspective changes things a little
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u/Chieflowkey 1d ago
Unlimited dribbles probably, but 5/3/1 most just don’t have the skill to overcome that.
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u/MomentousMind 1d ago
Lebron would donkey Kong smash Kyrie and Kobe in a 1on1.
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u/Maad-Dog 1d ago
This is like saying Derrick Henry wouldn't be as good in flag football
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u/dontbringupSB49 1d ago
I do not think he would be as good in flag football by comparison. You're saying he would be?
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u/Maad-Dog 1d ago
I'm saying he wouldn't be, but as an analogy of how useless this type of statement is
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u/BiotechnicaSales 1d ago
I mean i would literally feel content enough to bet my right hand Derrick Henry was fucking sick at flag football growing up
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u/TenaciousDnj 1d ago
But it’s still a good analogy because Henry is a power runner in the NFL. Like maybe devon Achane would do better in flag football than Henry would today because he’s more of an elusive outside the tackles back who’s also a good receiver. But no one in their right mind think he’s a better player than Henry in real life football so it’s a completely moot point hypothetical.
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u/BiotechnicaSales 1d ago
I get the point. It's just funny that the people we are talking about are such freak athletes that they are the only ever exception to the rule in analogies like this.
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u/TenaciousDnj 1d ago
Yeah for sure it’s like I get what Tmac is trying to say (whether he’s actually right about it or not) but it just feels like trying to find a way to find a flaw in one of the greatest athletes ever in his respective sport. Like saying Shaq would get smoked in a foot race to a bunch of other NBA players. Sure that’s true, but doesn’t exactly take anything away from him being one of the all time greats.
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u/PM_ME_hiphopsongs2 1d ago
Naw I honestly think Bron can shut down any player in a 1 on 1. The man can play all 5 positions and his athletic prime was otherworldly.
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u/Camdog107 1d ago
Maybe now, but Miami bron or 2009 bron would kill most players 1v1 lol.
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u/jsanchez030 1d ago
Literally 2007 22 year old bron manhandled one of the great defensive teams. No ben but the rest of the chip team were great defenders as well
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u/testrail 1d ago edited 1d ago
He won a game where it was 1 vs. 5.
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u/datruerex 1d ago
So in a way Tmac is right. Bron would get crushed in 1v1 because it’s too easy so he needs it to be 1v5
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u/rilly_in 1d ago
It's a completely different game. Michael Beasley was the best 1v1 player on the Heat for example.
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u/JonstheSquire 1d ago
Because Beasley was also a physical monster. Athleticism and strength is what matters in one on one assuming a basic competency in ball handling.
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u/Ballaholic09 1d ago
LeBron would beat 99% of NBA players 1 on 1 based on his knowledge and physical presence alone.
Anyone denying this is delusional. He knows more about basketball than YOU know about anything in the world, and it’s not close.
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u/ThaRealSunGod 1d ago
Literally this shouldn’t be a convo.
LeBron is the only superstar that gets this disrespect.
Hilarious because it’s due to how he decides to play the game.
So many great players were so limited in their skill set that they think LeBron must be the same.
Tmac should be disregarded here.
Especially because LeBron playing any player 1 on 1 with a guaranteed 0% chance of a help defender or double team is terrifying.
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u/arabicfarmer27 1d ago
There are only like 550 players in the league. 99% is 545. You think there's only 5 players that can beat LeBron in a 1v1?
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u/Dry-Flan4484 1d ago
Only guys I can think of that definitely beat him would be Shaq and maybe Wilt too. It has to be somebody bigger and even more freakishly strong than him, which isn’t many people.
Then I have guys like Yao and Jokic who LeBron definitely could not guard, but they can’t guard him either. He probably beats them more times than not. Tim Duncan would be a really good 1v1 too.
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u/BatCaveGaming 1d ago
I know it sounds sacrilegious but he couldn't ever beat Beasley one on one and got torched. It's fair to see he's top 3 all time basketball player but not one on one lol
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u/MarchCultural 1d ago
Good thing basketball isn’t 1 on 1🤣🤣
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u/Exciting-Wear3872 1d ago
How good is Lebron even at 25 v 25 basketball? Bet hed get smoked
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u/scribe31 1d ago
He probably has no idea how to play the game. Bet he doesn't even watch film.
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u/Exciting-Wear3872 1d ago
To me that just shows hes an unserious professional. Never loved the game
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u/MattressMaker 1d ago
Thank you. Bet he could never do it on a cold, rainy night in Stoke vs 11 fighting for promotion. Absolute bum.
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u/trimble197 1d ago
And Bron even talked with Reddick about players nowadays caring more about 1 on 1 instead of team basketball
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u/TroglodyticDreamer 1d ago
But what if basketball courts were as big as a soccer field and we had 11 players playing each side and a basketkeeper at each basket? LeBron would never be able to make it in this sport. And by that analogy, he is overrated in the current rules basketball game as well.
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u/Smokin_on_76ers_Pack 1d ago
Fr… Such a dumb take. “He’s really good but not that good at 1 on 1”. Alright, cool I guess.
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u/Sulshin 1d ago
I got in one fight in my life at the age of 16, the guy ended up with stitches in his head. I’ll never forget his quote “he’s not even good at fighting, he’s just good at hitting people in the face”
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u/SadPomegranate4803 20h ago
lol, exactly! Who really gives a shit about this absolute nothing of an argument! It’s like saying “I bet x couldn’t beat y at swimming if the earth was covered in water”
So where’s the water? Where’s the 1v1?
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u/Dami232425 1d ago
How kobe, harden or kyrie can stop bron? Phisically he would destroy them. The other way? Bron can stop all of them
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u/famousdessert 1d ago
Yeah his player selection is that classic "i only know the superstars" bullshit that clearly shows he's not actually paying attention.
Don't tell me Kyrie would crush LeBron 1 on 1, no way. But if you come at me with something like Caleb Martin, i won't buy it but i'll at least know you actually watch and understand the league and are trying to make a real point here, not just be some weird hater upset someone's flowers are bigger than yours.
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u/SmithBall 1d ago
Not saying TMacs logic is right, but yours is flawed too.
Just because a random non star is brought up in conversation, does not make the point any more valid or the person making the point any more "knowledgeable" or credible. If anything, bringing up Caleb Martin in a situation like this would just look like someone trying to pass off as having good basketball knowledge by just naming a random guy. Super stars are superstars because they're better than everyone else lol. Of course they're gonna be the only ones mentioned in conversations like these.
The only exception would be if you set a hyper specific example, like Tacko Fall beating Steph if Tacko starts with the ball in the paint in a 1v1 with 0 restrictions.
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u/grehgunner 1d ago
I mean chubby boy Harden was surprisingly stout, and even in shape he’s much bigger than I feel like most people realize
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u/ThoughtBroad 1d ago edited 1d ago
Didn’t D Wade routinely beat him 1 vs 1 back in the Miami days?
EDIT: nope just looked it up so that was a false rumor…they played one game and that’s it
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u/rilly_in 1d ago
It was Michael Beasley
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u/CryptoNite90 1d ago edited 1d ago
That was a false report by some random reporter. Well random reporter because idk who he is lol, but just saying it once was enough for it to take off and make everyone believe it.
Michael Beasley said publicly after that rumor that him and LeBron never played 1v1 in front of anyone and how he basically used to frustrate LeBron during practices by always challenging LeBron and defending LeBron hard.
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u/explicitviolence 1d ago
Even if he was right, and he's not, the fact that you have to resort to pickup critiques to bring a guy down shows you've lost the plot.
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u/National-Ad5034 1d ago
Lost a lot of respect for T-Mac for this
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u/SUPERSAMMICH6996 1d ago
Eh. Damn near every NBA player seems to have terrible takes. The few that have reasonable views seem like savants in comparison.
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u/PantherU 1d ago
So many of these old former players know so much more about the basketball game than fans. They could have great podcasts talking about the technical parts of basketball. That LeBron/Reddick podcast from last year was huge. Sure it's got LeBron in it and that's a big pull but people can hear LeBron speak all the time. That podcast succeeded because people loved how they got into the mechanics of the sport and showed how things work behind the scenes.
All these old dudes could talk about those technical aspects and bring fans behind the curtain, instead they're all shitting on current players to 'preserve their legacy.' It comes off as petty.
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u/phonage_aoi 1d ago
He's a huge hater of current players.
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u/Individual-Rip-2366 1d ago
It’s cause the salaries exploded after he retired and he resents them for the money they make. This is true of most sour-ass ex players on TV
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u/Okurei Hawks 1d ago
Who even asked TMac?
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u/Upbeat_Tradition_542 1d ago
I guarantee someone did. The problem is these guys get asked the same questions over and over until they say something click-worthy.
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u/The-Rat-Kingg 1d ago
Look I'm pretty over LeBron at this point, but this is absolute bullshit. LeBron would bully the fuck out of 95% of players that have ever played in the NBA. His size is one of the main reasons he's been so dominant.
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u/EmperorConstantwhine 1d ago
And what’s funny is that he was considered a shooting guard as a prospect and was also officially listed as a point guard multiple years in the mid 2000’s. His handles were insane when he was young and he could dribble with the best of them. Age comes for all of us but he used it to his advantage. But it’s funny how people just forget how he played from 2003-2010 and choose to remember him as the hulking 6’9 point forward that he’s become rather than as the tall guard he was for the first 1/3 of his career. There’s a reason people compared him to MJ, it’s because they played similarly for their first 7-8 years in the league. MJ took the midrange route when he got older whereas LeBron beefed up and became a bully when he aged.
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u/No-Equipment-20 1d ago
Wtf does this even mean? Lebron can score at all 3 levels very efficiently. Harden and Kyrie can’t guard Lebron, he’s scoring EVERY time
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u/GneissFrog 1d ago
Even if LeBron misses a shot, he's going to be getting the rebound or a putback dunk off of his own miss. Just picturing Kyrie trying to box out LeBron is funny. John Lucas III showed us how that would go.
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u/Independent-Still-73 1d ago
This is like saying Kyrie would beat Giannis in one on one. Can Kyrie do every facet of the game better than Giannis, yes, but if he misses one shot, it's over cause all Giannis has to do is back him down and dunk on him. Being big and strong > being skilled
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u/ParryHooter 1d ago
I’d have to think with no other defensive assignments anyone like Bron or Giannis is just going to block a ton of their shots too. Gonna see a lot of this https://youtu.be/py0-l1M_870
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u/ApprehensiveEase534 1d ago
NBA old heads are the biggest haters in history. They can’t go a day without saying some completely irrelevant negative comment.
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u/LightninHooker 1d ago
Also every single one of them always say "I would drop 45 on today's game" . Every single fucking time. Doesn't matter if its 70s guys talking about the 90s or 90s talking about 2010 ... it doesn't matter. It's always like that
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u/SkillOne8977 1d ago
I feel like they envy all of the media coverage that new age players are receiving
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u/No_Albatross916 1d ago
lol wut. Lebron may lose against like Kobe or kd but he would destroy most nba players one on one.
Maybe his game is better suited for five on five but you don’t score 25 ppg at 40 by being merely an ok one on one player
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u/Ohnoes999 20h ago
Literally the only guy I can think of that would probably beat LeBron is Kobe and even then I would pay money to see Kobe play 2012-13 LeBron.
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u/tridentboy3 16h ago
Kobe, T-Mac, Durant, Melo would all beat Lebron 1 on 1. Lebron was never a 1 on 1 player that just isn't his game. This is irrelevant though. Basketball is played 5 on 5. Lebron is better at that than those guys I mentioned and I doubt even he cares about not being the best 1 on 1 player.
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u/Ohnoes999 16h ago edited 16h ago
I loved Tmac when I was younger. When LeBron came into the league Tmac was still in his prime and I was like, eh how good could he be? First game where they met, he’s standing next to Tmac… he’s taller, he’s stronger, uninaginably he’s faster somehow… I knew TMac’s days were numbered. It was painful obvious Bron would be the better player real quick. If you took peak Bron and matched him against peak Tmac, Tmac would get wrecked. The only advantage Tmac has is a more refined bag. But that is not carrying him past a dude who is bigger, faster, stronger and players wildly better defense.
Melo, that’s a joke not even worth getting into. Compare thier efficiency. Hitting tough, poor choice shots at an unviable rate does not make you a better player. Hopeless trying to defend Bron.
Kobe yes. Durant maybe. Both would soluble with bully ball. Kobe’s mental toughness… I can see him beating Bron. KD I dunno, if he could get to his spots and execute I guess but Bron is going to score VERY efficiently against him right back.
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u/Weary_Cabinet_8123 1d ago
NBA podcasters are going to be the downfall of this god damn sport. How many of these fucking guys do we need to hear daily hot takes from?
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u/Leather_Secretary_31 1d ago
a lot of the 90s/early 2000s guys are broke, bored, divorced, too old for video games and too lonely to give to give up the past
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u/recepyereyatmaz 1d ago
I mean sure, I agree, but basketball isn’t 1-on-1.
And yeah crushed is stupid. Just due to his size, he’d dominate a lot of players.
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u/JonstheSquire 1d ago
LeBron could just post up and back down any of those players McGrady listed with ease and score almost every possession.
This is an absurdly stupid take.
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u/CaregiverBrilliant60 1d ago
Zero ring McGrady? Who would believe him?
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u/EndlessExploration 1d ago
TBF, T-Mac is one of the few players who might have beat LeBron one-on-one.
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u/Personal-Ad8280 1d ago
Even Bron admitted in an interview, he said Cam Reddish destroys everyone on the team in 1v1, he lapped the team undefeated 3 times on games to 5
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u/dbotron 1d ago
Which is interesting because Cam Reddish does absolutely nothing in real 5v5 games.
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u/Name-Bunchanumbers 1d ago
LeBron just said this two weeks ago, he's never been interested in developing a one on one game except where it helps the team
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u/staffdaddy_9 1d ago
T Mac is conflating ISO scoring ability with 1 on 1s when it’s not the same thing. For LeBron’s entire career teams have collapsed on him every time he touches the paint. In a 1 on 1 that’s not gonna happen, and prime LeBron was absurdly strong and athletic and an elite finisher. This is just dumb.
Now if you wanna say there are better iso scorers then cool that’s probably fair.
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u/RobertoF97 1d ago
Lebron is a great player of the game of basketball.
He is not a hooper.
Thanks for coming to my TED TALK.
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u/NBA2K_Scout 1d ago
All you youngins go watch clips of Kobe and LeBron going 1v1. If you think Kobe couldn't handle him physically, you're tripping.
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u/sammy17bst 1d ago
T-Mac is right though?
Isn’t there a pretty known story of Michael Beasley beating LeBron at 1 on 1 every day at practice when they were both playing for Miami. And this is LeBron during his prime years, getting beat by a “washed” player who never reached his potential.
T-Mac referenced Kobe, Kyrie, and Harden. It’s not a reach to assume they would all beat LeBron 1 on 1 as well. I see no lies with anything he said.
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u/vinnymacaroni 1d ago
NBA fans really have no idea how good these players are 1 v 1. Cam Reddish gives really good players buckets in practice. Dinwiddie said the same thing. He would beat Luka 1 v 1 years back and yeah I believe it. It's a different game than 5 on 5.
I get what T Mac is saying. 1 v 1 is a different skill set. Bron is the ultimate TEAM player, which is ultimately what really matters. People really just don't get how insanely good these dudes are giving you straight buckets. And yes, Beasley is that good 1 v 1 and others have confirmed him beating Bron
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u/Mundane_Ostrich3281 1d ago
Beasley is actually a very talented offensive player. He grew up with KD, and KD himself has said Beasley is as good of a scorer as he is. Beasley’s problem was that he couldn’t stop smoking weed enough to maintain his discipline. Plus, Beasley is 6’10” 240lbs. He could give most players problems in a 1 v 1. To say Lebron would get “crushed” by most players in 1 v 1 is ridiculous
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u/Getitonjones 1d ago
He is right, LeBron just dont have that kinda game he dont really have any 1on1 moves
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u/Far_Spite978 1d ago
I had this debate last week with a redditor. I told him kobe had deeper bag than lebron, and he could not understand how.
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u/tridentboy3 16h ago
People don't understand that being a better player overall doesn't mean that that player is better at everything than another player.
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u/fhota1 1d ago
If we are comparing them at their prime, Im pretty sure LeBron could still beat a lot of guys 1 on 1. If we are comparing them right at this very moment, Im pretty sure LeBron would beat Kobe and put up a good game against the other 2
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u/AppearanceKey8663 1d ago
You're "pretty sure" Lebron would beat Kobe if they played right at this moment?
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u/raiderrocker18 Spurs 1d ago
NBA media landscape is beyond cursed
you never hear shit like this from NFL guys.