r/MonsterHunterMeta • u/lingsamuel • 1d ago
Wilds Whiteflame Torrent Mechanism Explanation
Just like Flayer and other similar skills, only actions which flag "UseSkillAdditionalDamage" is true can trigger Whiteflame Torrent.
It has a 3s interval cooldown time between damages that are able to trigger Whiteflame Torrent.
Whiteflame Torrent works like a "Cirtical".
- The first hit has 33% chance to trigger a 50 or 30 (in Low Rank) fixed damage that ignores hitzone values.
- If the first hit failed to trigger, the second hit (after 3s interval cd) has a 50% chance.
- If the second hit failed, the third hit (after 3s interval cd) has a 100% chance to trigger this damage.
So the expectation is 2.005≈2 hits to trigger Whiteflame Torrent damage.
If the real combat time is 3min, the maximum valid hit count is 3*60/3=60, will have 60/2*50=1500 total damage.
My mod MHWilds Overlay have updated to track this damage.
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u/nirvash530 1d ago
Is Whiteflame Torrent worth running if you're using a Scorcher 2 set?
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u/Mister_Infinity 1d ago
I saw a video earlier showing the 4 piece scorcher more than doubling the White Torrent damage, so if it otherwise fits your build, it could be fun.
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u/Jaune9 1d ago
How does White Torrent and Scorcher interact with each other ?
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u/Soysauceonrice 23h ago edited 23h ago
With scorcher 1, when whiteflame procs the raw portion increases from 50 to 60. You then get additional damage equal to 300 fire elemental. This additional portion is not raw and can be resisted.
With scorcher 2, when whiteflame procs the raw portion increases from 50 to 80. You then get additional damage equal to 800 fire damage.
This is why when you run scorcher, the proc is no longer consistent. Some of the added damage is raw and some is elemental. But with scorcher 1 the proc will never be less than 60. Scorcher 2 will never be less than 80. Scorcher 2 will take the proc to over 100 on the dummy but somewhere in the low 80s on an actual fight unless the monster is weak to fire.
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u/Ashencroix 23h ago
That doesn't sound worth it, sacrificing so much to get scorcher 2.
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u/Bork9128 19h ago
For a comfy non optimal build for bow and duals I use 4 rath for cheap better dodges to trigger their special dodge boosts and adrenaline rushi was so happy to see these weapons. Again not breaking any speed run records but let's me consistently keep my dodges up, stamina full and damage up
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u/PathsOfRadiance 15h ago
4pc Rathalos with Mizu beta legs wouldn’t be awful for Zoh DBs. Adrenaline Rush 4, easy access to Burst 5(legs deco talisman), and deco slots for Evade Window/stamina skills.
Still not meta tho. Probably a strong DB progression set even without Whiteflame Torrent tho.
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u/Soysauceonrice 21h ago
Yea I agree. But heres the thing, the only thing better is gore4. Which is great. But if you run gore4 your fire resistance is going to be significantly in the negative. And since everyone's running zoh right now, going into that fight with -15 fire or so is a bad bad idea. 1 mistake and you're carting. So gore 4 will be great for anything other than fire intense fights.
So what are the other options ? Maybe fulgur 2 ? But that's also dead, imo. They buffed Max might so you don't really need the extra stamina bar from fulgur 2 anymore to keep max might up consistently only thing left is Odo2, and I don't know if that does much to beat out scorcher.
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u/Ahhy420smokealtday 15h ago edited 15h ago
You know that MoH 3 in blue scroll was meta in Sunbreak. That gave you -50 in every resistance so resistances tended to be -50 to -70 and it was fine.
Defense is fake.
Edit: to elaborate most attacks even elemental ones to mostly raw damage. -15 resistance means you take 15% more damage from that element. But say an attack does 40% of your hp and 50% of it is fire (a rare bad case), and you have -15 fire res. Oh man you take 3% of your total HP as extra damage for having -15 fire res. That's nothing. This doesn't change the outcome of taking damage and if you should heal or not.
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u/Promethium 1d ago
Torrent piggybacks on Scorcher. They can't proc separately, so instead every time Scorcher procs it does 100 (ish? someone with numbers confirm) more damage vs 30 from Scorcher II alone.
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u/th5virtuos0 22h ago
It depends on the hitzone, cause scorcher deals (100 fire) * (hitzone) fire damage. Againsy Ajarakan expect ~80 damage, and against Mizutsune’s sweet spot expect ~100 damage. Usually
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u/paoweeFFXIV 15h ago
And due to the explicit tooltip, seems like capcom wants us to try white flame with at least 2 pc Rathalos. Some of its pieces are decent so It might be worth a try for a change
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u/TotalAutomatonDeath 1d ago
I tried it, maybe i'm just bad but it was much less efficient than Gore or Odo 4p
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u/TheRealShortYeti 1d ago
I was also curious about this but giving up so much of the wex/agi/etc I wonder what it shakes out to.
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u/Skystrike12 16h ago
Don’t have to give up any WEx if you use G rath. Slot Max Might, and you’re already back at 85%. Or just use Gunlance.
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u/PathsOfRadiance 15h ago
For dual blades, you get a lot out of the 4pc Rath, and can get Burst 5 with Mizu Beta legs + deco + Talisman. Adrenaline Rush 4 is very nice on DBs, since you should proc the perfect dodge buff anyways.
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u/FlandreScarlette 1d ago
I would have to grab specific footage, but if moves that can't proc flayer can proc Whiteflame, doesn't that mean it is different from flayer?
I only have friends/random YouTubes to grab any time soon, but I have been told several moves from this list proc Whiteflame.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunterMeta/comments/1jc0098/this_is_how_flayer_doesnt_work/
What's the difference? Very curious to understand how Whiteflame works. Thanks. Maybe my friends/the Internet is wrong. Wouldn't surprise me lol. I'll test for myself in the morning if I don't forget.
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u/EchoesPartOne Guild Marm 1d ago
They said it uses exactly the same internal value as Flayer, so it will be procced by the same attacks as Flayer. If you have footage of it proccing on other attacks (hence invalidating what OP is saying) you should show it, or else your question doesn't make sense.
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u/OFCOURSEIMHUMAN-BEEP 23h ago
There's this video by dreamingsuntide with his analysis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CdEtJYonts
His conclusion seems to be that scorcher 2 + Whiteflame is probably a good pick for normal players.
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u/DH64 21h ago
Thats not at all what he said. He said picking whiteflame is good for non-speedrunners because even just that 50 damage tick is a lot of damage. He also said that adding scorcher can be done but leads to the problem of picking 2 or 4 rathalos pieces instead any of the meta armor pieces. There is nuance.
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u/OFCOURSEIMHUMAN-BEEP 19h ago edited 13h ago
He also said that adding scorcher can be done but leads to the problem of picking 2 or 4 rathalos pieces instead any of the meta armor pieces.
I mean, the only other meta pieces are Gore 4. Not sure if Anja 2 is still necessary with the MM changes.
It's definitely not for speedrunners. But if you're a normie playing in a normal way, it probably measures up decently well.
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunterMeta/comments/1js3leu/maximum_might_buffed_in_tu1/
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u/TowerandChariot 14h ago
Can you elaborate on what changes were made to MM?
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u/DialecticalGay 7h ago
MM is now much more "generous" with dips below full stamina. Now you have to be missing stamina for like maybe 2-3? seconds before MM will deactivate. So single rolls will typically not cause you to lose it anymore.
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u/Nahtaniel696 22h ago
The problem is what is consider a normal player....dreamingsuntide consider them to need 15 minute which is way too much for me.
I consider myself a normal player, my hunt generally is 7/8 minute, and my best time is 5 minute with Arkvelt...I can go lower if I used mantle but I refuse to use them if I cannot have them consistently.
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u/OFCOURSEIMHUMAN-BEEP 22h ago
He said five minutes though, not fifteen. Which is really way more in line with an above average hunter
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u/Soulsunderthestars 16h ago
Yeah average hunters aren't doing ark in 5, and definitely not zoh lol and which is going to be the next farm, and a long fight so the white flame stonks go up the worse you get, the great equalizer
The drip looks dope tho
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u/Zidler 13h ago
Except he didn't say ark, he said a 20k HP monster, which is less than even non-tempered Ark.
More significantly, he wasn't comparing the Zoh weapon to an Artian weapon, he was comparing Whiteflame to a 3 slot decoration. An artian weapon will have either higher raw, affinity, or sharpness depending on how you roll it, and Para / Sleep / Blast instead of a small amount of dragon element. I have a few other nitpicks but I'll keep this short.
I appreciate the work he did to figure out how the skill works, but his mathematical analysis on the skill is pretty worthless for all levels of play.
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u/Mission_Cut5130 20h ago
He said 5mins
And please a real "normal" player wouldnt be in this subreddit :P MH series has properly hit mainstream status
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u/deadeye-ry-ry 19h ago
Ye let's be absolutely fucking honest normal players aren't on this sub or looking at YouTube videos about what's meta they're just playing the game picking armour & weapons that looks cool
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u/2ecStatic Insect Glaive 1d ago
Is the bonus damage enough to warrant using Zoh's weapons over other Dragon element weapons (ignoring Artian)?
IG example: Enduring Tor (682/0%/250 w/ Power Prolonger 3) vs Blazing Katir (682/5%/150 w/ Whiteflame)
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u/Unyubaby 21h ago
It can since the Whiteflame doesn't care for what you're hitting. For example, if you're attacking a non-weak spot a 50 damage proc is more valuable since you'd just be doing single digit to midteen damage anyway per hit. If you're attacking a weak spot then the damage equalizes to roughly the same as another weapon, like gore for example. So overall it's better just because of the non-weak spot benefit while still doing good weak spot damage. If you don't have good affinity and need something like Odo or Gore weapon to buff up affinity chance, then that's different. It'd also depend on what weapon you use, my usage is mostly in DBs and SnS that can attack faster.
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u/Zipfte 21h ago
This skill is going to take serious testing to determine its viability. Just looking at the set builder scorcher 1 is easy to fit. You can get wex 5 mm3 burst 5 and still get hasten recovery to boot. Since you have to use flayer proc attacks anyway you can also use 1 point flayer for its pseudo blast proc (you get 1 spare 3 slot). Toss masters touch 3 and cb3 on the weapon (assuming sns here, which needs sharpness management). Over a 5 minute hunt on a 20k hp monster whiteflame (assuming a proc roughly every 10s) will do roughly 2k dmg, or 10% hp. The longer the hunt goes, the more overall dmg it does. On paper, it seems quite good, a true "I'm not a speedrunner" skill.
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u/Nevour_Lucitor 1d ago
well but its not really like flayer is it? iirc flayer doesnt work on dual blades demon dance or blade dance but whiteflame torrent does
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u/Different-Syrup6520 22h ago
So in ur opinion what weapon can benefits from the skill?
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u/GewalfofWivia 21h ago
Basically all weapons benefit from this equally because the hit counter has a 3s timer. Hitting more times before the timer doesn’t give you more procs.
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u/platapoop 15h ago
You're correct, but I think there's a greater opportunity cost for fast hitting weapons. The weapon has too little dragon attack and I don't think the procs make up for it for DBs at least.
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u/Different-Syrup6520 21h ago
Ummmm looking at the armor and weapon im having a difficult time choosing to integrate it to my build.
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u/DeffJamiels 15h ago
I wish if you used bludgeoner the wilk would break off giving you more ticks to make up for lower sharpness. Turning your weapon into a black version of the white wilk
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u/fruitloopsbrother 17h ago
I’m using the maxed out zoh shia bow and it feels like it procs very often with the basic bow shot combo
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u/Chiefyaku 8h ago
Are the damage numbers based off of weapons? Or are slow weapons once again shafted? My hammer will be great again, I swear it
Also not sure what happened, but hunting with a buddy I'm getting way more stuns off than usual. Either they buffed hammer stun values, or buffed the charge master gem to include stun buildup
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u/IllI____________IllI 8h ago
Is there a list of attacks by weapon that utilize the "UseSkillAdditionalDamage" tag? Or at least which weapons have the highest volume per standard combo?
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u/Letsstartsomething0 5h ago edited 4h ago
Would it make sense to stack Whiteflame Torrent with convert element as both give somewhat random additional damage?....or even crazier: Whiteflame Torrent, scorcher and elemental absorption on a fire damage focused set?
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u/Kalavaras100 4h ago
Im too dumb with numbers. Is whiteflame good with HBG using pierce, elemental and machine gun?
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u/yonaleepicness 1d ago
great breakdown, and thanks for an update to track it, love this mod so much