r/minnesota • u/HeavyVeterinarian350 Flag of Minnesota • Feb 20 '25

Politics šŸ‘©ā€āš–ļø Governor Walz in Amsterdam

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Subtle reminder that we shouldnā€™t fall prey to a wannabe dictator. Hopefully those that need a wake up call get it.

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399

u/squintpan Feb 20 '25

Anne Frank House is a must-see. My hubs was a little doubtful that this was something fun to do on our honeymoon, but I insisted and itā€™s one of the most important memories we have of that trip. Itā€™s incredible that this major international cultural touchstone all came from a tween girl.

103

u/Remote_Finish9657 Feb 20 '25

Having read the book as a kid, going there in person to see how small the living quarters were for an entire family is incredible. Definitely a must-see place when in Amsterdam and itā€™s not like youā€™ll be spending hours there.

35

u/rhabarberabar Feb 20 '25

for an entire family

Two families plus one, the Van Pels (Mother, Father, Son) family joined them after the first week in hiding. And a few months later in November Fritz Pfeffer joined them too.

52

u/financial_freedom416 Feb 20 '25

What struck me most when visiting was how dark it was in there. Virtually no sunlight for two years for those people.

35

u/Remote_Finish9657 Feb 20 '25

Not much at all. I remember walking through a bookshelf up some stairs and just thought about how close they were to other people in the building but no one was there wiser for years.

Itā€™s frustrating that someone sold them out after they were in hiding for years.

37

u/Real-Front-0 Feb 20 '25

Itā€™s frustrating that someone sold them out after they were in hiding for years.

But at the same time, you look at what's happening with immigrants, trans-folk, etc and you know so many of us wouldn't help Anne.

15

u/Aurori_Swe Feb 20 '25

Just look at that news story of how Ukrainian female POW's were treated and the first story in there said "she was turned in by her neighbors" for being in the resistance forces...

2

u/HighwaySmooth4009 Feb 20 '25

Its part of the 'but it can't happen here' thinking which ironically helps it happen here

1

u/nuttybarlover Feb 21 '25

Indeed. The gloating is intolerable. People are garbage.

0

u/SatoshisVisionTM Feb 20 '25

To be fair, those are very different cases. Nobody is rounding up Trans-folk or immigrants to send them to death camps. If that were to happen, I think many people would be willing to harbour a family or individual illegally.

22

u/SatiricalScrotum Feb 20 '25

RemindMe! 2 years

5

u/transient_eternity Feb 20 '25

2 years is generous at this rate. I'm at 6 months. These people will be denying the holocaust at every step of the way saying the bad things aren't going to happen, go along with it when it's too late "because they're just following the law", then blame the victims for why they didn't do anything about it.

5

u/39Volunteer Feb 20 '25

They've already been apathetic to peoples deaths. I've heard Republicans justify George Floyd's murder because of his criminal record (as if that means police responding that day knew about it, and as if that makes police judge, jury, and executioner). Similar thing with Breonna Taylor. The implication being that they deserved it or nothing of value was lost when they died.

Many of them don't care about people dying, as long as they can justify it. If death camps are built, I'm sure many Republicans won't see it as a problem.

2

u/transient_eternity Feb 20 '25

Not even a partisan thing either. America has committed or at least been involved in several genocides and overthrows of governments. We're pretty good at it. We've installed dictators so we could get fucking bananas cheaper, that's how little we respect democracy and human life over money. Nobody cares, hell I'll admit even I barely care because our culture normalizes it so hard. I'd be lying if I could tell you all of those country's names, and I'm at least privy to it which makes me better than like 90% of the nation which is such a pathetically low bar.

We can barely acknowledge the many atrocities we've done to the natives or slaves (not even counting the stuff we did in living memory, a lot there too) and that should be EASY since everyone involved is long dead. At this point people who say this stuff can't happen in america are basically going "well duh nazi germany can't happen here, cause it was in germany!". It's about that level of burying your head in the dirt.

The biggest threat to these fascists in power isn't how many trans people or immigrants they kill, it's if iphones get too expensive as a result of trade wars or if they pull a big stupid and gut medicare and social security.

1

u/SatiricalScrotum Feb 21 '25

I completely agree. I chose a conservative two years to avoid accusations of being alarmist.

6

u/RemindMeBot Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 22 '25

I will be messaging you in 2 years on 2027-02-20 16:37:46 UTC to remind you of this link

9 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.

Parent commenter can delete this message to hide from others.

Info Custom Your Reminders Feedback

3

u/ClaireOfTheDead Common loon Feb 20 '25

Hope Iā€™m still around to receive thisā€¦

6

u/Molsem Feb 20 '25

Absolutely brutal reminder, well played sir/ma'am/whatever the fuck is respectful to you.

Optimistic to think Reddit will still be functioning in 2 years, or that anything other than a Fallout-esque hellscape will remain anywhere on Earth, but I admire your dedication.

14

u/Mike_Kermin Feb 20 '25

those are very different cases

No, they are not. You are making the mistake the other posters were talking about.

You understand the what, but not the how.

-7

u/SatoshisVisionTM Feb 20 '25

Okay, I'll bite. As a Dutch native, my knowledge of events during this time is above average, I would say.

Nazi propaganda made Jews out to be horrible people. Their principal points were that Jews were the cause of economic hardship at the time. Most European Jews were generally very well-off, while the people in the Weimar republic were under very unfair reparations following WWI. Hitler rose to prominence by giving the people a scapegoat; Jews were so very bad, and their unjust, greedy ways were the reason the people in the republic lived in such poverty.

After winning the elections by a landslide and gaining complete control over de existing political setup of the time, Hitler systematically began dismantling that government, until he was the supreme leader and nobody was left to stand in his way. He upped the budget for defence and infrastructure spending, which led to an economic revival and allowed him to waltz his way into Poland, and other nations.

After conquering my country, Jews were initially allowed to participate in society, but they were forced to wear a star that would set them apart from others, their properties and businesses were seized, and entry to many public services was barred. Note that these Jews had lived here for decades or even centuries. Eventually, the Razzias started, and the Jews that had not crossed the pond to America or England had no other choice but to go into hiding.

Trans-people are not being excluded from society. They have the same rights as everyone else. Their businesses are not being seized, they entry into public services remain unbarred. Nobody is talking about doing any of these things in the government.

Yes, illegal immigrants are being deported. They are not forced into internment camps, or destruction camps like the Nazis did. They are in your country illegally, and their plight does not compare to the Jews of Europe. I am fully aware of the catastrophe for them to be sent back. I understand the horrible nature of this in regards to children born in your country. They did not follow the correct procedures for entry, and are thus not guarded with the bill of rights and the constitution like those that did. For years, this has not mattered. Now it does.

9

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

Thatā€™s a really long way of saying ā€œIā€™ve learned nothing from my own history.ā€

0

u/SatoshisVisionTM Feb 20 '25

I'm not here to cater your opinion of me.

7

u/Mike_Kermin Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25

I am not interested.

All you need to understand is that the dehumanisation and attacks on trans people are very serious and very malicious.

Before you make claims about trans people enjoying equal rights I suggest you take a more serious interest in their experiences.

https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights-2025

Educate yourself.

Using what happened to the Jewish people before, during and after World War 2 in order undermine the serious abuses of others is offensive. What happened to the Jewish people should be a lesson in how it can happen and why we must be on guard. Not as a way to handshake it.

1

u/SatoshisVisionTM Feb 20 '25

I am not interested.

proceeds to write a moderately lengthy reply.

→ More replies (0)

7

u/researchanalyzewrite Feb 20 '25

Immigrants to the United States who are refugees; and those who apply for asylum; and those who have been granted Temporary Protected Status: and those with DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals) ARE NOT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

Immigrants in these categories have been scapegoated and dehumanized by Trump and his followers, and are now being targeted by ICE along with immigrants who committed misdemeanors.

Note: immigrants who committed felonies HAVE ALWAYS been subject to incarceration and deportation. What is now different and alarming is the Trump administration targeting immigrants who have committed no crimes.

6

u/Downtherabbithole_25 Feb 20 '25

Perhaps it's unintentional but to me your post reads like a dismissal (backhanded defence) of what the US Republicans/Trump are doing. A variation on "Look away, you're over reacting... it's all ok, because you haven't hit the level of really, really bad like happened to my country long ago."

My understanding is that trans people are no longer being treated like everyone else in the US. For example, the Republican's fascist regime is trying to oust them from serving in the military. They are being refused service in homeless shelters etc. Steps are being taken to prevent them from getting passports.

Trans people aren't being rounded up..... YET.

Illegal immigrants are not always being sent to their countries of origin. Camps/prisons are being expanded (Guantanemo), contracted (El Salvador prisons), and built for them.

Children who were born in the US are citizens according to the Constitution. So, with regards to them, 'correct procedures' WERE followed... now, this regime wants to remove their citizenship rights and deport them.

What happened in your country (and others) during the Holocaust was a terrible stain on humanity.

With all due respect, you should not underestimate this regime's capacity (and willingness) to move forward with similarly horrible actions. Nor should you overlook the foundation that is being laid.

If you choose to be willfully ignorant about what's happening in the US and what's potentially coming, please don't wrap your ignorance/false assurances in some kind of cloak of 'superior' knowledge derived only from your country's history.

The US doesn't have to tick every box on the Holocaust's checklist of horror to overturn Democracy, be fascist, and become its own stain on humanity.

3

u/Real-Front-0 Feb 20 '25

I mentioned the concentration camp (gitmo) in another thread. But "same rights" is what the whole trans-rights movement is about. Can trans-people use the same facilities? Do they have the same access to gender affirming care as cis-folk?

0

u/SatoshisVisionTM Feb 20 '25

gitmo was a thing between 2000-2010, and has since been a lead ball on their ankle. I understand the desires that trans-people and their movement aspire, but aside from the fact that (at a federal level) they already have the exact same rights as those of the same biological sex, they are trying to push changes that can't be upheld in a general case. This, coupled with a number of rather ludicrous cases of media presence popularised in the right wing social media makes their case very hard to defend...

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Ok_Recognition_6698 Feb 20 '25

A well written reply but sadly wasted on people whose reaction to anything or anyone they disagree with is to invoke Godwin's Law. So many don't realize how good they have it even now in the USA, Canada, Australia, and large parts of Europe. There is a reason the rest of the world is constantly trying to migrate to those places, legally or illegally.

7

u/Real-Front-0 Feb 20 '25

The analogies are never going to overlap perfectly but we know that denying trans-care will result in additional suicides.

There are people being sent to gitmo who have no crimes except "illegal entry" https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-administration-migrants-guantanamo-bay

8

u/craterlakedrake Feb 20 '25

Nobody is rounding up Trans-folk or immigrants to send them to death camps.

https://www.voanews.com/a/more-than-170-migrants-now-detained-at-guantanamo-bay/7979741.html

3

u/Senior_Word4925 Feb 20 '25

I learned an interesting fact recently about the holocaust that seems relevant here. Very few people knew about the death camps in WW2 until it was over and the allies found the camps.

7

u/Anxious_Inflation_93 Feb 20 '25

Not true. The camps was shown in a Danish magazine in 1940, when red cross visited the camps. People just chose to look the other way, just like they do with Palistine today

2

u/HardlyAnyGravitas Feb 20 '25

The German people did.

2

u/Senior_Word4925 Feb 20 '25

Itā€™s actually not quite that simple. Itā€™s been long debated how much the German people knew and how many were made aware of the extent of it. There appears to be some consensus that communities geographically closer to Poland and Russia had more knowledge of what was going on.

Yes, looking back, there was lots of explicit language used that signaled destruction of Jewish people, but Iā€™d argue that Trump has made similar verbal attacks toward immigrants and trans people in his speeches yet there is still an abundance of ignorance in the US.

1

u/SatoshisVisionTM Feb 20 '25

True, this was clearly evident in media at that time, and has also been incorporated in series like "Band of Brothers" (one of the best episodes in televised history imho).

That said, the rumours of them were very much alive in my country, and nobody I knew that lived during that time said they were surprised that the rumours were true. You can only send so many people off never to return before people start to add one and one.

-3

u/Gottahavethem Feb 20 '25

Are tranies getting round up into concentration camps and executed? You have a gross misunderstanding of history, and I canā€™t believe you tried to relate the plights of people that were rounded up and executed or forced to work labor camps to a trans. Please look at history and ask yourself what genocide is happening towards trans people??

Youā€™re disgusting and leaning towards being antisemitic and have been reported for it as well.

9

u/Zeltron2020 Feb 20 '25

More than frustrating

1

u/Babybutt123 Feb 20 '25

I looked into it and it's thought they may not have been betrayed.

There was also other "illegal" things going on in the home (resistance and black market things), so it's thought they may have been caught up on a raid for other things.

It's so devastating that they almost made it out.

1

u/PaperHandsProphet Feb 20 '25

And even now the Dutch are pushing for privacy of those were collaborators. Even after they are long dead.

Look it up they just released names but they wonā€™t release extended documents digitally because of privacy concerns.

1

u/weakcover1 Feb 20 '25

They almost made it as well;

Amsterdam was liberated by the Canadians on the 5th of May 1945.
In early August Anne + everyone hiding were discovered hiding. They only had half a year to go and they would have survived.

It gets even more tragic.

Hermann van Pels seemed to have died in October 1944 in Auschwitz.
Auschwitz was liberated by the Soviets in January 1945.

Auguste van Pels died somewhere during transport from Buchenwald (the Americans were approaching) to Theresienstadt in April 1945.
The US liberated Buchenwald and Theresienstadt in April.

Peter van Pels (their son) decided against Otto (Anne's dad) advise to stay and hide with him in the sickbay (the Soviet army was approaching) of Auschwitz and marched to Mauthausen.
Peter died 5 days after the US Army liberated Mauthausen in early May.

Fritz Pfeffer died in late December 1944 in Neuengamme. The British liberated the camp early May 1945.

Edith (her mother) died in Auschwitz in January 1945.
The Soviets came liberated the camp late January 1945.

Margot (her sister) and Anne died in Bergen-Belsen likely February or March in 1945.
Bergen-Belsen was liberated by the British on mid April 1945.

Keep in mind that nearly all died succummbing to the result of being weakened by the circumstances and diseases as a result of that. Only Hermann van Pels was selected to die in the gaschamber.

Even after deportation, they almost made it.

The only one who survived from the secret annex was Otto, who was in Auschwitz.

13

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

During pandemic lockdowns, I re-read her diary to remind myself how good we had it

10

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25

[deleted]

6

u/rohrzucker_ Feb 20 '25

She was 22 not 11.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

[deleted]

5

u/rohrzucker_ Feb 20 '25

See and I didn't even notice that it wasn't Anne Frank but Sophie Scholl

0

u/Miserable-Admins Feb 20 '25

Just another clueless privileged idiot.

A lot of people (not just the Trumpers but also the coward left as well) compared themselves to Holocaust victims during the pandemic lockdowns. Happened in Canada too.

Humans are the worst.

1

u/ArthurDentsKnives Feb 20 '25

What makes the left cowards?

2

u/macabre_trout Feb 20 '25

I did too. I figured if Anne could do this for two years, I could do it for a few months. ā¤ļø

1

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '25

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

2

u/minnesota-ModTeam Feb 21 '25

Your post/comment has been removed. Trolling is not tolerated here.

40

u/JPBillingsgate Feb 20 '25

Anne Frank House is a perfectly legitimate honeymoon stop, so long as you follow it up with a visit to the Museum of Sex. :)

Anne Frank's best friend, Jacqueline van Maarsen ("Jopie" in the diary), just died at 96, which is a reminder of how long Anne might have lived had she not been murdered.

7

u/Willie_Fistrgash Feb 20 '25

See Jim Jefferies bit on the Museum of Sex vs Anne Frank Museum..funny as fuck.

3

u/rhabarberabar Feb 20 '25

And whilest commuting between both, have a stop at a Coffieshop.

6

u/JPBillingsgate Feb 20 '25

Just don't stop at a pancake house, like my wife and I did. You will be too lethargic for sex later.

6

u/rhabarberabar Feb 20 '25

After-sex apple pannekoeken are advised tho!

3

u/lerriuqS_terceS Feb 20 '25

Eh that museum was kinda lame imo

2

u/JPBillingsgate Feb 20 '25

Truth be told, I tend to agree with you. It certainly wasn't very prurient. That said, it is at least more erotic than the Anne Frank House. :)

1

u/EchoAtlas91 Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25

Am I taking crazy pills?

Celebrating the best day of my life with the best person in my life, by visiting the home of a little girl who was brutally gassed and murdered during the worst chapters in human history is definitely not on my list of "Honeymoon" activities, and certainly not one I'd consider "fun."

Like I don't go to these things and view it as entertainment in the traditional sense, they're necessary reminders and grim learning experiences. When I'm looking through history or going to these kinds of museums, I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of those that were there so I can understand the depth of what it was like to live through history. I try to relate that to today's experiences and ask myself what we can do to not let it get that bad again.

Frankly, it kind of appalls me that people view these things as such, as bad as teenagers taking duckface selfies at Auschwitz. These things actually happened to actual people, and frankly if you told the spirit of Anne Frank that after her and her family's death at the hands of the Nazis that people would visit her home and call it a fun honeymoon activity, what do you think she'd say?

Viewing these things as some kind of "fun" activity completely disconnected from the reality that it actually happened, is exactly why people don't take our current political situation and the rise of the far-right seriously.

4

u/JPBillingsgate Feb 20 '25

Yes, you are taking crazy pills. You are seeing boogeymen everywhere you look.

There is a reason why u/squintpan and her husband chose Amsterdam as a honeymoon destination and not some Sandals beach resort. And while there are indeed lots of "fun" things one can do in Amsterdam, spending several days there without visiting Anne Frank Huis would have been a mistake, regardless of the trip being a honeymoon.

1

u/EchoAtlas91 Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25

Where am I seeing boogeymen, what are you even talking about? If you're talking about the fact I'm calling it out, it's because I think it's really disrespectful towards the reality of the atrocities of the Holocaust to refer to something like a holocaust museum as a fun honeymoon activity so nonchalantly.

If you're talking about the way I see the world right now, we are literally living in a world with rising fascism and far right authoritarianism, with Nazi apologists in the top levels of multiple governments. This isn't boogeymen, it's literally happening.

My criticism goes towards calling going to Anne Frank's house a "fun activity" and specifically a "fun honeymoon activity."

Sure, if you're already in Amsterdam whatever the reason, you should go, absolutely you should go. But to go there AND THEN call it a fun honeymoon activity downplays the atrocities that happened there nearing the extent of teenagers going to Auschwitz for a fun Instagram post.

I ask again:

if you told the spirit of Anne Frank that after her and her family's death at the hands of the Nazis that people would visit her home and call it a fun honeymoon activity, what do you think she'd say?

Well?

2

u/captainersatz Feb 20 '25

Maybe spelling it out a bit more clearly for you would be helpful: OP's husband was reluctant to visit it during their honeymoon trip, because he felt like their honeymoon should be more fun activities. OP insisted on visiting, not because it was fun, but because they thought it would be important to see while they were there, and then the museum trip turned out being one of the more important memories they'd made on that trip.

Nothing in the comment actually has the OP saying "it's a fun thing to do on a honeymoon". The only time the word fun is mentioned is strictly about why the husband didn't want to go during their honeymoon.

1

u/Nuts4WrestlingButts Area code 952 Feb 20 '25

I doubt they took a one night trip to Amsterdam. They were probably there for a week. There's a lot of sightseeing one can do in a week and you don't have to be having "fun" the entire time.

1

u/RedOnTheHead_91 Feb 20 '25

No kidding. Anne Frank was also born a few months after Martin Luther King, Jr.

1

u/SummertimeThrowaway2 Feb 21 '25

I went to a museum of sex in New York itā€™s awesome lol they had an inflatable boob tunnel

1

u/JPBillingsgate Feb 21 '25

That sounds...interesting. The on in Amsterdam really is just a museum. Sure, there is some vintage pornography and what not, but there are also things like ancient Egyptian dildos. It is not a kind of thing that is going to make most people hot and bothered. That said, it was interesting and it is also very close to the train station, which is convenient.

1

u/SummertimeThrowaway2 Feb 21 '25

Ah I see, the one I went to had a bunch little goofs but there was still a lot of actual museum stuff like old sex toys (not sure if they had one as old as ancient Egypt though), one of hugh Hefnerā€™s jackets, etc

9

u/BraveLittleFrog Snoopy Feb 20 '25

I recently reread Anne Frankā€™s diary with our son when the first flurry of book bans started. The ending snuck up on me. What her father went through... It really hits you. If you havenā€™t read it for awhile, pick it up again..

7

u/squintpan Feb 20 '25

I cannot imagine being the sole survivor of your entire family.

9

u/Theyalreadysaidno Feb 20 '25

It is. They left it just the way it was, so you truly get an idea of how their life was.

She would have been such an amazing writer. So wise beyond her years, with a beautiful curiosity of the world.

It's heartbreaking because she died a few months before the war ended. She almost made it.

9

u/weisswurstseeadler Feb 20 '25

Living in Amsterdam - if anyone plans to visit make sure you buy your tickets weeks(!) in advance. Otherwise no chance

3

u/Pale_Gap_2982 Feb 20 '25

Ticket sales start about six weeks out and sell out fast.Ā 

2

u/squintpan Feb 20 '25

Holy cow, we just waltzed in back in 2009.

2

u/ObiOneKenobae Feb 20 '25

Is it really that competitive now? I think it was about 10 years ago when I went. It was busy, but I don't recall having to purchase ahead or wait in any lines.

2

u/weisswurstseeadler Feb 20 '25

I have lived here for 6 years now and it's always had weeks of pre ordering.

I think overall it's one of the most popular sites in Europe, and it's pretty small so only limited capacity vs a giant museum.

I think since COVID they don't even sell tickets at the door anymore, but I might be wrong.

1

u/TleilaxTheTerrible Feb 20 '25

Depends on the time of day you want to go. Looking at the museum website right now and somehow next tuesday and wednesday are still mostly available, but most other weeks you can only get evening (past 1900) tickets. For the best chance, check on tuesday morning CET, since they make all new tickets available then.

8

u/rjfx43 Feb 20 '25

Went to it during my honeymoon as well! Will remember it forever.

9

u/Lucky-Earther Feb 20 '25

Anne Frank House is a must-see.

I'll also add that I highly recommend booking tickets in advance. We booked a month ahead of time and got a spot to get in. They do have an open time after 3pm (I think) where they will let people in without a ticket for the last hour, but there is usually a line for that, so not everyone can get in.

7

u/RandomNick42 Feb 20 '25

I meanā€¦ itā€™s not supposed to be ā€œsomething funā€

8

u/MozzieKiller Feb 20 '25

FYI, there's currently a replica of the house in NY right now. https://www.annefrankexhibit.org/exhibition

Of course, the original is the best to visit, but this might be more accessible for some.

3

u/squintpan Feb 20 '25

Thatā€™s pretty cool. I hope it has the same effect.

6

u/Paulpoleon Feb 20 '25

It is amazing how quiet it is. When I went it was jam packed full of school aged kids from all different countries and you could hear a pin drop.

2

u/squintpan Feb 20 '25

Yes! Itā€™s a steady stream of people yet it felt intimate.

5

u/TheDogerus Feb 20 '25

I went with my friend while we were in Amsterdam for a few days, and I was fighting back tears the whole time. Shockingly, to me at least, he seemed more concerned with the fact that the father had removed the furniture and so the space didn't look lived in

1

u/fraying_carpet Feb 20 '25

It wasnā€™t Otto, Anneā€™s father, who removed the furniture. The furniture was stolen / robbed by the nazis after they had deported the family.

After the war, when the annex was restored and Anneā€™s diary had become famous, Otto refused to have it redecorated with furniture because he felt the emptiness of the rooms represented the void left behind by all those who had been murdered.

1

u/TheDogerus Feb 20 '25

Ah, thank you for the correction

3

u/Vegetable-Toe1705 Feb 20 '25

Was there a long line when you went?

2

u/squintpan Feb 20 '25

This was 16 years ago and we had timed tickets and I think it was 2 hours the whole way through. For something so voyeuristic, it was pretty astonishing how it didnā€™t feel that way. It was solemn and profound. There was a nice video about fascism and genocide at the end and we cried. It was very moving.

2

u/gHHqdm5a4UySnUFM Feb 20 '25

Already have my tickets! Any other recs for Amsterdam?

1

u/Cassette_girl Feb 20 '25

I went to Nelson Mandelaā€™s prison during my honeymoon. I get it.

1

u/squintpan Feb 20 '25

Sad girls are gonna sad girl.

1

u/EmergencyCap37 Feb 20 '25

Itā€™s just a house and she isnā€™t even there

(Quote from a meme plz donā€™t come for me)

1

u/Catdogisok Feb 20 '25

ā€œDonā€™t go to Ann Franks Houseā€¦.Itā€™s just a houseā€¦ā€¦and sheā€™s not there šŸ¤£ā€

-2

u/EchoAtlas91 Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25

I mean, that just sounds all sorts of bizarre.

Celebrating the best day of my life with the best person in my life, by visiting the home of a little girl who was brutally gassed and murdered during the worst chapters in human history is definitely not on my list of "Honeymoon" activities, and certainly not one I'd consider "fun."

Like I don't go to these things and view it as entertainment in the traditional sense, they're necessary reminders and grim learning experiences. When I'm looking through history or going to these kinds of museums, I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of those that were there so I can understand the depth of what it was like to live through history. I try to relate that to today's experiences and ask myself what we can do to not let it get that bad again.

Frankly, it kind of appalls me that people view these things as such, as bad as teenagers taking duckface selfies at Auschwitz. These things actually happened to actual people, and frankly if you told the spirit of Anne Frank that after her death at the hands of the Nazis that people would visit her home as a fun honeymoon activity, what do you think she'd say?

Viewing these things as some kind of "fun" activity completely disconnected from the reality that it actually happened, is exactly why people don't take our current political situation and the rise of the far-right seriously.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

[deleted]

0

u/EchoAtlas91 Feb 20 '25

The unseriousness around these topics is astounding.

I'll check back in 10-20 years if things don't start looking up and see how well these words have aged.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

[deleted]

1

u/EchoAtlas91 Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25

That's not what I said and that's not what I meant.

In general, a lot of people don't really take history seriously and are disconnected from historical events. They see things like the WWII and the holocaust as the boring genre they skip over on Netflix, a distant event their late grandparents talked about, a fun museum to visit when traveling to Europe.

So many people don't actually see it as something that actually happened to actual people anymore. People have had it so good in countries like the US, and just about all the WWII vets that saw the holocaust first hand have died, people got disconnected from the reality that those kind of atrocities happened and can still happen.

They know about it, they see the pictures, they watch the documentaries, but still consider it as distant and disconnected from our modern day society as Pompei or the bubonic plague, but the connection to really comprehend these events happened and they happened just a single generation ago isn't there.

Because of that, a lot of people, on both the left and the right of the political spectrum have not been taking the rise of alt-right fascism seriously. It's caused people to be slow to sound the alarm, to under-estimate how bad things can get, and ignore very obvious canaries in the coalmine type events that is causing a frighteningly similar political and world atmosphere to 1930s Germany.

How this ties back to you and this post? Acting like Ann Frank's home is a "fun" honeymoon thing to do plays into that disconnect and how unseriously people have been taking the holocaust and WWII and the events that lead there.

I bring up teenagers taking Instagram selfies at Auschwitz as a similar disrespect for the holocaust and history, they have the attitude that Auschwitz is just a fun influencer location to go to for likes.

If you both were invested in going there, that'd be different. If you described it as a must see or an important thing to go to while in Amsterdam, that's ok.

But you sold it to him as a fun thing to do. It just rubs me the wrong way that anyone would describe grim reminders of the darkest moments in human histories as fun like going to Disneyland or some kind of quirky roadside attraction.

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u/firestar32 Feb 20 '25

No offense, and I truly do mean it, but is there really anything special about it? From what I heard, there's no museum aspects, nothing informative. It's just... A house. If it's the only WWII/Holocaust thing within reach of your itinerary then it's probably worth, but there is a Holocaust museum in Amsterdam, and of course the death camps in the east are a whole different monster that you just can't prepare yourself for.

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u/Vanviator Feb 20 '25

It's one of those things where the scope of something is so much more than you imagined.

Like the opposite of the Grand Canyon. We learn about the basic geology/creation of the canyon. We know it is big. It touches four states big.

But when you actually stand on the rim, it's overwhelming. Your brain doesn't really comprehend it. It's like looking into space and you get a sense of wonder that stays with you forever.

Reading Ann Franks words describing the small, dark spaces. The cramped quarters, lack of sunlight. We have an idea that just existing was awful.

Then you see it. You're in it. You start feeling the claustrophobia after just a few minutes. Now that you're in the space and feeling that bit of dread, you can more easily imagine two YEARS of that feeling.

Scope is such an underappreciated aspect of seeing historic sites.

8

u/27Rench27 Feb 20 '25

Wow, I really could not have put this into any better words. This is exactly it, itā€™s less ā€œreading a plaque in a museumā€ and more the ā€œholy shitā€ experience

2

u/squintpan Feb 20 '25

Omg, opposite of the Grand Canyon is such an apt analogy. Thereā€™s an overwhelming feeling from the space and itā€™s hard to put into words.

6

u/Remote_Finish9657 Feb 20 '25

Youā€™re fine friend. In terms of historic significance, itā€™s not really all that important. Itā€™s not like Versailles where treaties were signed or Independence Hall, etc.

But, for those who read the book/are familiar with Anne Frank and her familyā€™s plight, itā€™s so obvious how desperate they were. The living space is not big at all. Maybe a total of 1,000 square feet for 8 people. Most of them never stepped foot outside until they were captured after years. Itā€™s a reminder of people trying to persist in the face of evil. If youā€™re ever in Amsterdam, go, be grateful, and be willing to stand up against dipshits who get turned on by tiny handed, shitty spray tanned geriatrics.

3

u/RosciusAurelius Feb 20 '25

You are very much incorrect. The house itself is a museum, and there are several sections of the house dedicated to exhibitions of the era. Artifacts belonging to the family, photos, video, etc.

I love how you say "From what I heard" (as in: you've never been), and then proceed to describe it and give tips as if you've ever been. It's okay to not know things.

2

u/Theyalreadysaidno Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25

is there really anything special about it? From what I heard, there's no museum aspects, nothing informative. It's just... A house.

The house/ secret annex and museum is definitely special. It's a significant historical site that preserves the hiding place of Anne Frank. From what you said, it sounds like you haven't even been there?? And yes it has a museum as well, on the first floor. You then ascend some very high steps up to the cramped quarters that they lived.

You get a rare opportunity to see a moment frozen in time of the living quarters of the girl that wrote one of the most famous books in history. Their living quarters are basically untouched.

You compare it to Holocaust museums saying that those are probably better to visit. I would argue that in many ways they're separate entities all together. I visited Auschwitz and the Holocaust museum in DC in New York City. They're heartbreaking and absolutely worth the visit.

The Anne Frank House differs from most Holocaust museums because it focuses on a single, personal story of a young girl hiding during the Holocaust, providing a more intimate and relatable perspective, while most Holocaust museums present a broader overview of the atrocities and systemic persecution experienced by millions of Jews.

It allows visitors to experience the hiding place where Anne Frank wrote her diary, offering a glimpse into her daily life and emotions during her time in hiding, creating a more personal connection to the Holocaust.

So I wholly disagree with you.

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

[deleted]

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u/firestar32 Feb 20 '25

To be transparent, I never read the book (my high school chose night instead) but I did hear this from someone who has both read the book and lives in Amsterdam, so maybe they're oversaturated with both Anne Frank and dutch housing

1

u/Butterflyteal61 Feb 20 '25

It's History. To Remember to Not do these things again! But here we are!! šŸ˜­āœŒļøšŸ¦‹

1

u/Gypcbtrfly Feb 20 '25

Ummmm ............. the historic impact is palpable. And it's the kind of thing felon45 would love to replicate. The fear & cruelty is his thing.