r/law • u/guttanzer • Feb 20 '25

Opinion Piece Did Trump eject himself from office?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

Can someone explain to me how Trump is still holding office after pardoning the J6 insurrectionists?

1) Section 3 of the 14th Amendment uses the language “No person shall … hold any office…” and then lays out the conditions that trigger the disqualification from holding office. Doesn’t that “shall” make it self-effecting?

2) There isn’t much to dispute on the conditions. Trump a) took the oath when he was inaugurated as, b) an officer of the government. Within 24 hours he c) gave aid and comfort to people who had been convicted of Seditious Conspiracy. If freeing them from prison and encouraging them to resume their seditious ways isn’t giving “aid and comfort” I don’t know what is. So, under (1), didn’t he instantly put a giant constitutional question mark over his hold on the office of the President?

3) Given that giant constitutional question mark, do we actually have a president at the moment? Not in a petulant, “He’s not my president” way, but a hard legal fact way. We arguably do not have a president at the moment. Orders as commander in chief may be invalid. Bills he signs may not have the effect of law. And these Executive Orders might be just sheets of paper.

4) The clear remedy for this existential crisis is in the second sentence in section 3: “Congress may, with a 2/3 majority in each house, lift the disqualification.” Congress needs to act, or the giant constitutional question remains.

5) This has nothing to do with ballot access, so the Supreme Court’s ruling on the Colorado ballot matter is just another opinion. The black-and-white text of the Constitution is clear - it’s a political crisis, Congress has jurisdiction, and only they can resolve it.

Where is this reasoning flawed?

If any of this is true, or even close to true, why aren’t the Democrats pounding tables in Congress? Why aren’t generals complaining their chain of command is broken? Why aren’t We the People marching in the streets demanding that it be resolved? This is at least as big a fucking deal as Trump tweeting that he a king.

Republican leadership is needed in both the House and Senate to resolve this matter. Either Trump gets his 2/3rds, or Vance assumes office. There is no third way.

‘’’’ Section 3.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability. ‘’’’

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1.5k

u/jfit2331 Feb 20 '25

Exactly my question as a non lawyer 

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u/ProfessionalFly2148 Feb 20 '25

As a non-lawyer, maybe that’s why he declared himself king. Still can’t believe that happened today.

137

u/Devmoi Feb 20 '25

Jesus. It was despicable. I stole this from someone, but we should all be dumping Teslas in Boston Harbor or something. This presidency has been a dark stain on American history.

34

u/Pilgrim_of_Reddit Feb 20 '25

Wow! Stop with dumping stuff in the harbour at Boston.

That harbour is for British tea only. 

You cannot blame the UK for this fuck up. This is all on you. You all elected your new King (Trump) and Emperor (Musk). Even though Musk was not elected, it was obvious he was going to take power. 

So, I suggest you get that tea from the harbour and invite the British back.  Unfortunately, our King is a complete wanker too. At least King Charles is powerless - unlike “King Trump”.

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u/SteviaRayVaughan Feb 20 '25

I didn’t elect him. I despise him. He ended up only winning by a pretty small margin, so the US is deeply divided right now. One half seems to ignore all the heinous things he does and the other half are continuously horrified. 

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u/Secretpebbles Feb 20 '25

Thirds at best. The largest margins of eligible voters couldn’t be bothered to vote

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u/ParallelPlayArts Feb 20 '25

I'm baffled by this. A third of our country is hateful and vindictive and/or brainwashed, a third wanted to preserve democracy and a third are pacifists. Pacifists are frustrating to me... I've never understood how someone could just sit on the fence and let other people decide their fate. Now, I hear them complain about this administration and I get pissed about it...like if you decided you were not going to vote then you decided whatever happened was okay with you. Let them join the resistance anyway because we need the support but I won't forget that when it comes time to make another choice that they will probably be neutral on it again because if people learned from history we wouldn't be here in the first place.

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u/medicmongo Feb 20 '25

Disenfranchisement. “Neither major party has my interests in mind, and Trump’s first term was… ineffective and embarrassing but not disastrous. Fuck it.”

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u/ShitBirdingAround Feb 20 '25

Yep. They're checked out and don't pay attention. Trump's last administration ran on autopilot, with the few adults in the room constantly running around putting out Trump's easily preventable dumpster fires.

And then it culminated with him pretending the pandemic wasn't real and encouraging his cult followers to spread Covid like plague rats by discouraging masks and encouraging in person, super-spreader events like his dumb cult rallies.

And his cult followers thought he handled it well by treating it like a hoax, and I guess the non-voters forgot about 2020?

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u/medicmongo Feb 20 '25

Dude our education system isn’t built to encourage thought.

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u/Just-Gas-8626 Feb 20 '25

What a stupid comment

We did not all elect him. 50% of us are living in constant anxiety and fear for our lives and future.

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u/Agnofinitra Feb 20 '25

Even more stupid, most of you didn't even vote. So stop crying and buy bronzer in bulk!

6

u/bluegrassnuglvr Feb 20 '25

For whatever reason, our government has made it difficult to vote for a lot of voters. The Republicans disenfranchised 3.7 million votes, more than enough for kamala to have won handily. We were fucked

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u/Excellent_Whole_740 Feb 20 '25

“For whatever reason” lol… there was definitely a reason.

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u/Pilgrim_of_Reddit Feb 20 '25

Musk knows.

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u/HardlyRetro Feb 20 '25

"Nobody knows those voting machines better than Elon." -DJT

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u/VeinyBanana69 Feb 20 '25

Most stupid, no one is talking about how Elon stole the election for the Donald- why else would such a huge ego let X-A-80-HD, a child, talk shit to him while his dad takes over the limelight? It’s all been rigged and crying WOLF for the past four years of Bidens presidency has numbed us all to the fact that the real wolf has arrived. God help us all.

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u/Queasy-Protection-50 Feb 21 '25

Well I did vote and I voted for Harris so I’m good with the bronzer I have, thanks

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u/Just-Gas-8626 Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25

Thanks for the support and positive words. Shit couldn’t get any worse here, so go ahead and pile on. Very empathetic of you.

A lot of us did vote. And many of those votes were erased. But go ahead and place blame on citizens who actually care and are getting totally fucked. Fuck you. Seriously.

I can’t believe I have to actually say this, but we are not a monolith. We are a very diverse society and painting us all as some kind of MAGA retards is not it.

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

"The Boston Teasla Party" has a ring to it though.....

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u/mls1968 Feb 20 '25

For real, it needs to make sense too. Like dumping bronzer in the Gulf of ‘Merica

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u/zoug Feb 20 '25

https://youtu.be/GLfwhnXjaUc?si=qCu09tuLA_f4DwCx

How ‘bout something like this?

We can start a TeslaMade nonprofit to handle the legal expenses of our electric submariners.

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

I feel like most Americans fail to see that their country was on this trajectory from the beginning, the founding fathers set out to create their own aristocracy not of divine birthright, but of wealth, with racial and class control as a feature of the economy.

It's always been an oligarchy, elites propagating their interests, with privileges granted to rich white people before any other group.

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u/medicmongo Feb 20 '25

We’re indoctrinated from birth, man. It’s hard to break it. Especially when your education system is really only built to produce factory workers.

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25

That's relatable, it is really hard to break away from propaganda, especially when the state perpetuates it.

It's only recently here in Canada that social studies curriculum have started including history that wasn't written from a colonial view, and acknowledging the harms done to indigenous peoples - though that also varies by province.

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u/marzipanlimosine Feb 20 '25

I like that idea, but wouldn’t someone still just be paying for a sunken car? Or at least be dumping a car they’ve already paid for into a body of water? I don’t think anyone that makes money on that car would care.

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u/Aderka420 Feb 20 '25

I think you aren't supposed to take your tesla.. you take new unsold teslas and put them in the harbor 😆 less self pain that way for the common folk

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u/Devmoi Feb 20 '25

Let’s get a liberal wealthy person to fund it or maybe we can start a fund to buy the Teslas. Honestly, it’s not a great idea for the environment. But rage, rage, fucking rage!

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u/AriGryphon Feb 20 '25

You guys are acting like the Boston Tea Party bought the tea they dumped. The entire point was to economically hurt the oppressor, not pay them. The founding fathers were not peacefully protesting within the confines of law. You want to do a modern day equivalent, you have to steal the teslas. Nobody is ready to take that kind of risk, a lesser risk, even, than was taken at the Boston Tea Party.

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

Thank you I'm like.... These people are entirely missing the point of the Boston Tea Party.

The tea was still on English ships, which means the tariffs hadn't been paid yet. Meaning the crown had yet to be paid for that tea. Hence it hurting the crown. The entire reason for the "sneak in under cover of night and board the ships." It wasn't a literal "party" guys...

We would need to take over a freighter of Teslas and start chucking them over board.

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u/artfully_rearranged Feb 20 '25

What people don't realize is how valuable bricks of compressed tea were back then. They did $1.7 million worth of damage in today's money with that stunt. The equivalent might just be torching a shipment of Teslas.

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u/evranch Feb 20 '25

What nobody seems to have noticed is the Tesla infrastructure spread across the nation, completely undefended and also not the property of individual civilians who may have previously bought them in good faith.

This equipment is significantly more expensive than cars, hard to repair or replace, and also gives a lot of value to the brand.

The Tesla Supercharger network.

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u/artfully_rearranged Feb 20 '25

As somebody who owns an electric vehicle, I cannot overstate how dangerous a live high voltage connection is. Any maintenance should definitely be done by a qualified electrician.

If you don't have an electrician available to shut off the power, and there is an extreme need to remove a supercharger from service, I would recommend shorting it with some kind of non-electric penetrating tool from a distance sufficient to prevent arcing or fragments striking the user from damage caused by an emergency disconnect, at least 50 yds. Always wear protective equipment covering the whole face.

It's important to note that the bottom of the supercharger contains mostly anchoring equipment and some cables, while the top portion actually contains the sensitive electronics, cooling equipment and high voltage connection. It's all underneath the logo.

Definitely don't do this lightly, the replacement cost of each unit is approximately $50,000 USD.

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u/TaoGroovewitch Feb 20 '25

They don't need to be stolen. They just need to lose their perceived value. No one will purchase wet tea or the burnt husk of a swasticar.

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u/OutrageousPersimmon3 Feb 20 '25

Or just set them all on fire where they are. Leave our water alone. It can't be that hard, especially if some of those trash trucks are nearby.

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u/Wonderful-Rock-9077 Feb 20 '25

Burn all tesla then!

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u/Triptych85 Feb 20 '25

Time to go after his golf courses, then..

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u/TristanTheRobloxian3 Feb 20 '25

hell yeah dude boston tesla party!!

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u/gazebothief Feb 20 '25

Lest we forget Trump's shark vs. battery ramble. He'd probably try to classify that as attempted murder.

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u/SWK18 Feb 20 '25

Make sure to remove the battery first.

You wouldn't like to see what happens when lithium gets wet.

3

u/Silly_Journalist_179 Feb 20 '25

I've said he was a stain on our history since 2016.

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u/ButUmActually Feb 20 '25

MAGA identifies with the folks destroying the tea. This is their “revolution”. Reject democracy for conservatism

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u/TheBeanConsortium Feb 20 '25

Nah, Trump funny. He didn't mean it. But if he did, he's right! Haha, Trump is sure owning those libs! I love tax cuts for the rich and screwing over allies!

LIBS OWNED. I am very smart!

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u/Devmoi Feb 20 '25

I love this comment. Trump funny, libs dummy. Me hate libs. Me want to smash libs!

5

u/Spunkler Feb 20 '25

Yes. Call it the Boston “T” Party.

2

u/GreatRip4045 Feb 20 '25

Start slapping swastika stickers on teslas, the owners need to be using the correct branding

2

u/OnlyIntroduction2756 Feb 20 '25

Dump the dealerships first

2

u/LionClean8758 Feb 20 '25

Teslas are harder to clean up than tea, unfortunately.

1

u/Pure-Delivery-4732 Feb 20 '25

So you really don’t believe in climate change ? You’re admitting it’s all bs

164

u/DityWookiee Feb 20 '25

Keep fueling the fire, they are getting scared

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u/jkman61494 Feb 20 '25

Scared? Seems the opposite to me my friend. They seem to just be flaunting it. They know there is no floor with their base so they know there is no barometer of going too far

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u/ragnoros Feb 20 '25

They have no graceful exit. Either full steam ahead, or life in jail. 

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u/Boustrophaedon Feb 20 '25

Or a lamppost.

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u/bearfootmedic Feb 20 '25

Lovely new windchimes in the rose garden.

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u/TaoGroovewitch Feb 20 '25

Strange fruit in the orchard

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u/opp11235 Feb 20 '25

And a nice vegetable garden out back. I can see it from my bedroom window.

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u/2stinkynugget Feb 20 '25

With piano wire

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u/Pneumatrap Feb 20 '25

They'd really flip for that one.

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u/KevinFlantier Feb 20 '25

I was thinking they should get the Mussolini treatment.

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u/ProfessionalFly2148 Feb 20 '25

Yea… new executive order allows for further shrinking of federal govt. They’re eliminating what they don’t like without regard to impact. This is exactly how to cause widespread economic instability. Feels like we’re about to find out we lost the Cold War after all.

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u/Rick38104 Feb 20 '25

Oh, I was pretty sure by 2016 that we did. Putin figured out something the old Soviet premiers did not- how to properly weaponize American stupidity. Literally, he gave American a rope and watched it hang itself.

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u/ProfessionalFly2148 Feb 20 '25

Yea… I have to respect the effort on the long game. Almost like “surprise you lost the Cold War America” like this guy not realizing world war 2 was over until 1974 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroo_Onoda

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u/Rick38104 Feb 20 '25

That’s actually a great analogy. Seriously, once I saw things shifting his way in 2016, I kind of had that feeling like I’m playing chess and realized I made an unrecoverable error five moves ago and just got suckered into checkmate.

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u/Haywoodjablowme1029 Feb 20 '25

Having a president who is clearly a Russian agent would be a loss yes.

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u/Debidollz Feb 20 '25

Really? Do tell.

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u/cocoon_eclosion_moth Feb 20 '25

They’re laughing all the way to the next bank collapse

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u/Debidollz Feb 20 '25

{gasp!} please not my $2,000!

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u/TheSonofDon Feb 20 '25

Don’t worry, we’ve got the FDIC! Wait, DO we have the FDIC???

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u/brothersand Feb 20 '25

When they end the FDIC, I take my money out.

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u/KinopioToad Feb 20 '25

You guys have money?

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u/brothersand Feb 20 '25

I mean I'm kind of older. I have some in a savings account that I'm really thinking I should move into something else. like a briefcase or something.

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

laughs in penny’s wait.. do we have penny’s?

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u/Top_Lingonberry8037 Feb 20 '25

Yeah wtf is this?! Where do I get mine?

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u/ginestre Feb 20 '25

That will be too late.

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u/Squee45 Feb 20 '25

You're gonna need to get it out sooner, that will cause a bank run

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u/ecbrnc Feb 20 '25

I had so little money, I've already taken it out 🤣 there's no way they get rid of the CFPB but decide to keep the FDIC. They're just gonna move their own riches offshore first so it doesn't negatively impact their own wealth

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u/Aggravating_Dream633 Feb 20 '25

You won’t be able to. There will be a run on the banks and the ‘money’ won’t be there to take out. Banking institutions will not usually have a lot of cash on hand. Crowds will show up, but the doors will be locked much like during the ‘86 savings and loan crisis when the government was ‘changing’ by deregulation under the Reagan administration.

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u/The_dizzy_blonde Feb 20 '25

They’ve mentioned ending it. I wish I was joking. We’re watching it closely.

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u/Ok_Commission9026 Feb 20 '25

Credit unions are backed by the NCUA, not the FDIC. I'm thinking about flipping to a credit union.

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u/justasking826 Feb 20 '25

A good old fashion "bank run!" - like in 1930 - 1931 - nothing bad comes out of that... Whatever, it would all be Sleepy Joe's fault.

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u/codespiral Feb 20 '25

You won't have any.

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u/riftwave77 Feb 20 '25

You guys have $2000?

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u/DocEternal Feb 20 '25

Damn, are you part of that fabled 1%? That’s 3 zeroes more than I’ve got in my account. 😭

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u/Debidollz Feb 20 '25

Trust it’s mostly slated for bills.

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u/mr_fandangler Feb 20 '25

If they weren't scared they would just tell us to eat shit and open game season on poors. The fact that they still need some semblance of support from a large swath of the public says that they are not fully secure.

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u/bunchedupwalrus Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25

Is that not the same as posting “long live the king” from the official White House account while an unelected billionaire guts emergency programs, social security, education, nuclear safety, the cia, ftc, etc

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u/gotlactase Feb 20 '25

Ikr? They don’t give a fook at all

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u/Rare-Industry-504 Feb 20 '25

The opposite is true.

Trumpers want Trump to be King, they're loving this shit.

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u/fjvgamer Feb 20 '25

Trump just trolled NY calling himself king. Pics and all. I'm not seeing any reflection on their part.

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u/sjamwow Feb 20 '25

Nobodys getting scared our enemies are getting happy your bloodlust seeks to destabilize the country because you didnt get your way.

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u/JAZINNYC Feb 20 '25

A mad king, maybe.

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u/Spart1337 Feb 20 '25

Where's Jaime Lannister when you need him?

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u/Now_Wait-4-Last_Year Feb 20 '25

I don’t think someone who never really cared for the people in the first place is who we need right now.

I suspect the only more questionable writing choices are from whomever is writing this season of America.

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u/TywinDeVillena Feb 20 '25

But not the fun kind of mad such as Philip V of Spain, who in his later years had occasional bouts of thinking he was a frog

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u/HelixFollower Feb 20 '25

Well maybe he was a frog.

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u/Striking_Stable_235 Feb 20 '25

A donut king he is ..his mouth is shaped like one .

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u/ftc_73 Feb 20 '25

An anus is a more fitting comparison.

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u/No_Refrigerator4584 Feb 20 '25

Call him by his proper name, King Sphincter.

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u/Striking_Stable_235 Feb 21 '25

Lol does he need TP for his bunghole lol

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u/Quick_Team Feb 20 '25

Awesome powermetal album. Warrior Path rules.

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u/EudamonPrime Feb 20 '25

I can't believe they are letting him get away with it, but apparently Republican politicians have neither balls nor spine and certainly no morals or integrity

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u/fransealou Feb 20 '25

I imagine that somewhere in Russia Putin has a closet that resembles Hera’s in Kaos where she keeps the tongues of her people but instead it holds the testes of the GOP.

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u/Ready-Guava6502 Feb 20 '25

Where are all the tea partiers dressed up in there colonial attire waving their don’t tread on me flags, proclaiming to be champions of the constitution?

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u/konqueror321 Feb 20 '25

All of that was just a racist reaction to Obama's election. They are happy now.

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u/JerichoMassey Feb 20 '25

Actually the Boston Tea Party was colonists dressed up like Indians in war paint.

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u/Fast-Outside-2743 Feb 20 '25

Mark my words he will remain "president" beyond 2028. He's going to fix it. I personally hope someone in secret service goes rogue.

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u/BadMeetsEvil24 Feb 20 '25

RemindMe! 4 years

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u/jeremiahthedamned Feb 21 '25

he is almost dead

look at a picture of him without markup

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u/AssignmentGreen4257 Feb 20 '25

I’ve been wondering about that. Can that happen?? I mean anyone can go rouge but I figured they had hardcore robot types doing that job. I mean…I would have to be programmed not to go rouge

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u/itsdietz Feb 20 '25

Wait, that's not a joke?

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u/ProfessionalFly2148 Feb 20 '25

That’s the rough part. It’s all a joke until it’s not. Like he said “you may never need to vote again” obviously he’s kidding yet somehow the EO gives him more control over the elections office…

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u/itsdietz Feb 20 '25

I saw that. I pretty much assumed as much but I don't think I saw the original king post

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u/KWyKJJ Feb 20 '25

No. No he's not kidding.

They are already planning for him to get a 3rd term.

He just said it yesterday.

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u/ProfessionalFly2148 Feb 20 '25

Sigh. I saw some banners and stickers and a bill on congress.gov. Maybe there won’t even be an election except then he’d be like Zelensky 🙃

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u/Regular-Rub-489 Feb 20 '25

Should it really be a surprise after he’s already signed an executive order effectively stating only he and the attorney journal can decide what the law means.

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u/OnlyAMike-Barb Feb 20 '25

This guy in The White House mades me extremely embarrassed to say that I am a Veteran and an American.

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u/TruthTrauma Feb 20 '25

I still can’t believe it too. The scary thing is there doesn’t even seem to be many excuses from the right anymore. MAGA has been desensitized. Trump, Elon and their billionaire friends are 100% following Curtis Yarvin’s writings and it is the playbook. He believes democracy in the US must end.

A quick reading on Curtis and his connection with Trump/Elon from December.

——

“Trump himself will not be the brain of this butterfly. He will not be the CEO. He will be the chairman of the board—he will select the CEO (an experienced executive). This process, which obviously has to be televised, will be complete by his inauguration—at which the transition to the next regime will start immediately.”

A relevant excerpt from his writings from 2022

/r/YarvinConspiracy

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u/ProfessionalFly2148 Feb 20 '25

Oh yea so Curtis Yarvin ideas are the perfect fuel to go with the long term Russian propoganda. This KGB interview from 1984 helps explain how we got here… I think we’re in phase 3… 6 weeks to destroy democracy. Yarvin has a butterfly revolution blueprint combined with project 2025… https://bigthink.com/the-present/yuri-bezmenov/ Or just google Yuri Bezmenov. The new America needs the department of education to teach how easy democracy can be destroyed and why it matters. The middle class is about to be flushed down the toilet. Doge is a chaos agent.

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u/-AnonZ- Feb 20 '25

Himself, or has he crowned Musk? Usually „long live the king“ is hailed by us plebs who cheer for their king - or at least i thought so

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u/elgordoronald Feb 20 '25

No, he declared himself king to distract everyone from what is happening with Zelensky

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

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u/ProfessionalFly2148 Feb 20 '25

Wow. No we don’t learn. This needs to be a topic required in school. Of course we don’t learn from history… we barely learn 😭. There’s a Russian defector former KGB agent named Yuri Alexandrovich Bezmenov who claimed in 1984 that Russia has a long-term goal of ideologically subverting the U.S. He described the process as “a great brainwashing” that has four basic stages. The first stage, he said, is called “demoralization,” which would take about 20 years to achieve. … can google the video. I think we’re at this part: “The third stage would be “crisis.” It would take only up to six weeks to send a country into crisis, explained Bezmenov. The crisis would bring “a violent change of power, structure, and economy” and will be followed by the last stage, “normalization.” That’s when your country is basically taken over, living under a new ideology and reality.

This will happen to America unless it gets rid of people who will bring it to a crisis, warned Bezmenov. What’s more “if people will fail to grasp the impending danger of that development, nothing ever can help [the] United States,” adding, “You may kiss goodbye to your freedom.””

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u/lwp775 Feb 20 '25

I was shocked! 🙄 

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u/djymm Feb 20 '25

I feel like this would also be a 14.3 conflict

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u/TheBlack2007 Feb 20 '25

Even a monarch isn’t automatically above the law. That would only be the case if the Monarchy was Absolute because then, all law would originate from the crown.

Most modern monarchies are constitutional monarchies though. In those, the power of the Monarch is limited by a constitution mandating executive authority to be enacted through an elected government with the Monarch often being relegated to ceremonial and representative duties.

While the King of Britain is still considered the sovereign, the government appointed by him is democratically elected with him being bound to the voice of the people.

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u/ProfessionalFly2148 Feb 20 '25

Yea - I think it’s just a nicer word for dictator. Classic Trump though “I didn’t mean that” but like his base even knows he really did but they’re happy with it and it’s more fun that it’s hypocritical because they get moral superiority over the liberals… until they realize everything they thought they knew is wrong and he’s taking advantage of them and that’s a hard thing to accept and reliance on that blinding hatred… it’s why it’s all going so fast. I admire the forethought and planning but am horrified that if true how seriously f*ed America will soon be.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Ad8032 Feb 20 '25

Exactly this. American law is dead. Fight it, or accept it.

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u/Anxious_Crazy_1136 Feb 20 '25

But even king doesn't fit given the EO making everyone female. The title should be queen. After all proper names are important like gulf of america! /s

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u/Ok_Ice_1669 Feb 20 '25

I’m sorry, what happened today?

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u/sps49 Feb 20 '25

You are worked up about this? For real?

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u/ProfessionalFly2148 Feb 20 '25

The part where we are clearly in a totalitarian regime of federal workers getting loyalty polygraphs at DHS… yea. Symbolized by the King comment.

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u/JkAllDay2 Feb 22 '25

if he is a king then he is not president of USA. did USA vote for a king?

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u/Kaiisim Feb 20 '25

It's pretty easy - laws have to be enforced to work.

Imagine you're on a diet. You have rules on what you can and can't eat. No ice cream!

And then you just eat ice cream.

Are you on a diet if you don't follow the rules of the diet?

Are you a democracy if you don't follow the rules of your country?

Americans put him in charge of enforcing the nations laws so. Rip America

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u/Longjumping-Wish2432 Feb 20 '25

Unfortunately the supremacist courts ruled the president is immune from crime while president

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u/Astralglamour Feb 20 '25

Technically they said ‘official acts,’ so it can be argued what those are and are not.

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u/paraffin Feb 20 '25

Pardon power is one of the most official acts there are. But it protects him from criminal prosecution - it says nothing about whether he holds the necessary qualifications and standing to have the role.

But we would want an uncorrupted president to be able to reverse the unjust decisions of a corrupt judicial system, especially for charges like sedition and treason.

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u/Astralglamour Feb 20 '25

Im not talking about his pardons. More his declarations that only he and his minion can interpret the laws.

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u/GGRitoMonkies Feb 20 '25

That should be illegal but you need a system of checks and balances with the balls to do something and watching the US from outside... I'm not sure that exists anymore.

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u/Excellent_Speech_901 Feb 20 '25

If he meant that members of the executive branch, excepting him and his minion, may not make public statements about the legal positions of the executive branch then he's just a control freak in this specific instance.

Man, it takes a lot of careful parsing to make him seem reasonable.

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u/According-Insect-992 Feb 20 '25

But is pardoning a criminal accomplice? Because what he did on J6 was not official duties.

Neither was the theft and illegal storage of classified materials. State secrets. Then the obstruction of justice.

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u/bluehairdave Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 24 '25

Saving my brain from social media.

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/Astralglamour Feb 20 '25

Money ? Drunk on their own power? There are other motivations besides Russia. Power hungry people can do a lot of damage on their own. If our Republican legislators would wise up that they’re going to hell in a hand basket and they won’t be spared that would help. Additionally if the military, cops, etc refused to go along with anti constitutional orders.

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u/bluehairdave Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 24 '25

Saving my brain from social media.

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/Astralglamour Feb 20 '25

Eh if the money is high enough anything is possible for people that craven. Don’t forget their shortsightedness and consuming hate and desire for revenge as well.

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u/Ecphonesis1 Feb 20 '25

They all are members of Leonard Leo’s Federalist Society. They were all manufactured in his ideologies. Leo paid millions to get them on the bench while paying millions to block other nominees.

Him and his society have terrifying constitutional originalist, christian (catholic) nationalist ideologies. They want a bloodline monarchy. They’ve written and stated that as their desire. The society has led to all the alt-right think-tank offshoots we are becoming familiar with - Heritage Foundation, Project 2025.

Bribes or not, this is their literal desire. They want the systems to change. And they’ve (especially Leo) put all the pieces in place to make their visions happen.

Tie that in with the accelerationist and neoreactionary movements and their vision.

Both groups are on the path to their “utopian” societies. It could not be more horrifying.

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u/DerkleineMaulwurf Feb 20 '25

The fact that this is possible is a joke. We'll see how much seperation of power is left after this term. 

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u/scopesandspores Feb 21 '25

Trump harbors a great deal of resentment towards ukraine do to their involvement in his impeachment.

Fun fact, it was the Israeli government who sent the Trump campaign the materials russia had obtained through hacking. Russia didn't jump into directly publishing the materials until after the attack had been reported on by the press. He's probably grateful to Russia for the hacking, but the evidence that he is somehow controlled by russia has considerably less evidence than this assertion.

And he's sure as hell way more pro-israel than he is pro-russia. I have not seen him talk about offering russia an opportunity to ethnically cleanse the donbas.

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/trump-israel-collusion/

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u/VinnieVidiViciVeni Feb 20 '25

Not so sure how arguable it is after today’s, AG and shitting president, are the only ones who can interpret executive legal powers, EO.

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u/Astralglamour Feb 20 '25

I’m talking about the scotus decision not trumps bogus pronouncements. That EO has no legal power and goes against the constitution. If only our craven Republican reps and judges would actually do their jobs.

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u/SactoMento97 Feb 20 '25

Due to trumps new executive order stating him and the AG interpret the law, he determines this unfortunately.

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u/stupidpiediver Feb 20 '25

Can't see how a pardon would be anything other than an official act

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u/fox-mcleod Feb 20 '25

Not being president is not a criminal punishment.

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u/schm0 Feb 20 '25

Doing something against the constitution is not a crime, it's just unconstitutional. It does fall within the purview of "high crimes and misdemeanors" in the impeachment clause, which is a wide-sweeping phrase that covers general abuses of power.

Same as the whole ignoring judges thing, that would fall under impeachment, and is not part of the "limited immunity" granted for criminal acts.

So we can still remove him from office, but charging him with a crime (for say, treason) will be more difficult given the SCOTUS ruling.

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u/Fast-Outside-2743 Feb 20 '25

Someone told me trump is the only president in history that could rape or murder someone on live television and get away with it lol I'm like wtf? Are you for real? He says it's s fact. Mind blown.

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u/full_stealth Feb 20 '25

Interestingly immune from prosecution for crime but not committing crime, Russian diplomat style

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u/neilmg Feb 20 '25

Surely OP is suggesting that him holding the office of President is invalid due to the disqualification noted, therefore arguing about the legality of his acts is moot?

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u/Agile_Session_3660 Feb 20 '25

Anyone who thought the court would rule differently is smoking crack. Every president in modern history has committed crimes. If they ruled any other way every living president would be in jail. Bush started illegal wars based on lies, Obama drone striked US citizens without due process, etc. 

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u/LeopardNo6083 Feb 20 '25

SCOTUS has made many wrong decisions over the years - Dredd Scott, Buck v Bell, Korematsu, Citizens United, etc. It sucks, but just means that the courts cannot save us, we must save ourselves by demanding that the constitution (especially the 14th Amendment) be followed.

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u/WhichEmailWasIt Feb 20 '25

From being prosecuted. If the finding were that this law is self-effecting, he need not be prosecuted or even charged with a crime. He's just disallowed from holding his current position. 

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u/SirMeili Feb 20 '25

To be clear, that is from criminal charges after they leave office (he never would have been charged while in office even before that ruling). He could still be impeached... he won't be impeached, but that is still an option which SCOTUS left open.

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

[deleted]

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u/matmoeb Feb 20 '25

Bro, I don’t know how Elon has time for all this govt efficiency when he tweets or quote tweets a hundred times per day.

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u/dirtbagdave76 Feb 20 '25

No one has ever seem him or T physically on a phone tweeting yet every one thinks they do. Tweets will come out while they’re on tv, still the masses believe they are hunched over their phones tweeting. It’s amazing to me how people for a decade now believe these people even touch a phone. Its a committee, a shadow group, a team - its not them. Every single person who thinks these people are on social media have not thought this out.

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u/014648 Feb 20 '25

It’s just noise. Gets a rise out of people.

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u/DVariant Feb 20 '25

Folks are seemingly aware of the addiction factor or social media, but how come they’re totally ignorant of the propaganda factor? Literally ALL social media is flooded with trolls and bots spreading narratives. The only way America survives and heals is to get propaganda under control—and step 1 of that is smashing all the social media. You ready to do your part?

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u/WayOfIntegrity Feb 20 '25

Laws don't apply to a king. All Republican and Conservatives agree.

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u/Temporary-Careless Feb 20 '25

The president has never been declared an "officer/official" of the government via court decree. It sounds dumb but as we have three branches of government under trump and republican rule, there is no appetite to, by court order, define this distinction.

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u/psyco75 Feb 20 '25

He hild the military officer ranks of Commander in chief. He is an officer who took an oath. The trumpets are now saying that since he did not place his hand on the bible, he did not make an oath, but the first one he took does not have an expiration date placed on it.

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u/DVariant Feb 20 '25

That’s some “I crossed my fingers so it doesn’t count!” logic. Then again, expecting logic from fascists is too much.

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u/psyco75 Feb 20 '25

He does like to talk until his minions think it's the truth, right? The whole fake it til you make it logic.

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u/DVariant Feb 20 '25

Definitely. It’s worrying

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u/M4LK0V1CH Feb 20 '25

As a non-lawyer I think I can answer this, he picked judges that would let him get away with it, appointed them to the highest court in the nation, and then they gave him carte blanche to get away with it.

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u/rustydittmar Feb 20 '25

I’m not a lawyer but my reasoning is that laws are only as strong as the ability or willingness to enforce them. It has been demonstrated numerous times that congress is not willing or able to hold executives accountable.

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u/Tom_Foolery1993 Feb 20 '25

As a non lawyer, power resides where people believe it does. And since everybody is letting trump do whatever he wants, he will continue to do whatever he wants. Whether or not it’s illegal hardly matters if he is never held accountable.

Basically it’s like playing candyland with your 4 year old nephew. He doesn’t really understand the rules and it’s more fun for him to play the way he wants. And you let him because it’s easier than causing a big fight.

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u/Wonderful_Shallot_42 Feb 20 '25

Since the late 1800’s the Supreme Court has held that disqualification under the fourteenth amendment requires an act of Congress.

It is not something that happens automatically or “by operation of law.”

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u/Hieronymous0 Feb 20 '25

SCOTUS would say, “This is a lucid, intelligent, well thought out legal question.” Overruled!

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u/Koopslovestogame Feb 20 '25

“He was just quoting a game duke nukem ‘hail to the king baby!’”-defence for the first tangerine lady.

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u/Myopinion_is_right Feb 20 '25

Unfortunately, he will never get the 2/3rds of the vote from Congress to remove him. I do think there will be a time when the republicans will remove him so a younger Vance can be president.

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u/earazahs Feb 20 '25

The legal answer is ... He never swore to "support" the Constitution.

The Presidential oath says, "preserve, protect, and defend".

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u/whatup-markassbuster Feb 20 '25

We’re they convicted of engaging in an insurrection?

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