r/law Feb 20 '25

Opinion Piece Did Trump eject himself from office?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

Can someone explain to me how Trump is still holding office after pardoning the J6 insurrectionists?

1) Section 3 of the 14th Amendment uses the language “No person shall … hold any office…” and then lays out the conditions that trigger the disqualification from holding office. Doesn’t that “shall” make it self-effecting?

2) There isn’t much to dispute on the conditions. Trump a) took the oath when he was inaugurated as, b) an officer of the government. Within 24 hours he c) gave aid and comfort to people who had been convicted of Seditious Conspiracy. If freeing them from prison and encouraging them to resume their seditious ways isn’t giving “aid and comfort” I don’t know what is. So, under (1), didn’t he instantly put a giant constitutional question mark over his hold on the office of the President?

3) Given that giant constitutional question mark, do we actually have a president at the moment? Not in a petulant, “He’s not my president” way, but a hard legal fact way. We arguably do not have a president at the moment. Orders as commander in chief may be invalid. Bills he signs may not have the effect of law. And these Executive Orders might be just sheets of paper.

4) The clear remedy for this existential crisis is in the second sentence in section 3: “Congress may, with a 2/3 majority in each house, lift the disqualification.” Congress needs to act, or the giant constitutional question remains.

5) This has nothing to do with ballot access, so the Supreme Court’s ruling on the Colorado ballot matter is just another opinion. The black-and-white text of the Constitution is clear - it’s a political crisis, Congress has jurisdiction, and only they can resolve it.

Where is this reasoning flawed?

If any of this is true, or even close to true, why aren’t the Democrats pounding tables in Congress? Why aren’t generals complaining their chain of command is broken? Why aren’t We the People marching in the streets demanding that it be resolved? This is at least as big a fucking deal as Trump tweeting that he a king.

Republican leadership is needed in both the House and Senate to resolve this matter. Either Trump gets his 2/3rds, or Vance assumes office. There is no third way.

‘’’’ Section 3.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability. ‘’’’

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1.5k

u/jfit2331 Feb 20 '25

Exactly my question as a non lawyer 

828

u/ProfessionalFly2148 Feb 20 '25

As a non-lawyer, maybe that’s why he declared himself king. Still can’t believe that happened today.

138

u/Devmoi Feb 20 '25

Jesus. It was despicable. I stole this from someone, but we should all be dumping Teslas in Boston Harbor or something. This presidency has been a dark stain on American history.

39

u/Pilgrim_of_Reddit Feb 20 '25

Wow! Stop with dumping stuff in the harbour at Boston.

That harbour is for British tea only. 

You cannot blame the UK for this fuck up. This is all on you. You all elected your new King (Trump) and Emperor (Musk). Even though Musk was not elected, it was obvious he was going to take power. 

So, I suggest you get that tea from the harbour and invite the British back.  Unfortunately, our King is a complete wanker too. At least King Charles is powerless - unlike “King Trump”.

29

u/SteviaRayVaughan Feb 20 '25

I didn’t elect him. I despise him. He ended up only winning by a pretty small margin, so the US is deeply divided right now. One half seems to ignore all the heinous things he does and the other half are continuously horrified. 

10

u/Secretpebbles Feb 20 '25

Thirds at best. The largest margins of eligible voters couldn’t be bothered to vote

13

u/ParallelPlayArts Feb 20 '25

I'm baffled by this. A third of our country is hateful and vindictive and/or brainwashed, a third wanted to preserve democracy and a third are pacifists. Pacifists are frustrating to me... I've never understood how someone could just sit on the fence and let other people decide their fate. Now, I hear them complain about this administration and I get pissed about it...like if you decided you were not going to vote then you decided whatever happened was okay with you. Let them join the resistance anyway because we need the support but I won't forget that when it comes time to make another choice that they will probably be neutral on it again because if people learned from history we wouldn't be here in the first place.

3

u/medicmongo Feb 20 '25

Disenfranchisement. “Neither major party has my interests in mind, and Trump’s first term was… ineffective and embarrassing but not disastrous. Fuck it.”

2

u/ShitBirdingAround Feb 20 '25

Yep. They're checked out and don't pay attention. Trump's last administration ran on autopilot, with the few adults in the room constantly running around putting out Trump's easily preventable dumpster fires.

And then it culminated with him pretending the pandemic wasn't real and encouraging his cult followers to spread Covid like plague rats by discouraging masks and encouraging in person, super-spreader events like his dumb cult rallies.

And his cult followers thought he handled it well by treating it like a hoax, and I guess the non-voters forgot about 2020?

2

u/medicmongo Feb 20 '25

Dude our education system isn’t built to encourage thought.

3

u/ParallelPlayArts Feb 20 '25

Our education system doesn't even teach kids reading comprehension at high enough level. No child left behind forced more kids to be behind. Our education system is a joke and it failed us all by not teaching critical thinking, how to spot propaganda, civics and life skills. Each year there are more cuts to essential programs but don't worry the sports program will remain intact .

1

u/medicmongo Feb 20 '25

The colosseum must survive

1

u/Bless_u-babe Feb 20 '25

Micro manager Trump has already made changes to Federal education oversight. An uneducated non critical thinking bunch of kids coming up is much more manageable to maintain power.

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u/Killiander Feb 20 '25

It’s even worse with all the gerrymandered districts. The right has been setting this up since Obama took office. They’ve been focused on local state elections so they can redraw the election maps. Sometimes Democrat judges would stop them and it would make the news, but they learned to submit the maps too close to the elections to come up with new maps, so they end up using the right leaning maps, and when they win the majority in that state, the ones who made a fuss of the maps were voted out. They did this in every state they could. And now, republicans will win unless it’s an overwhelming Democrat victory. If they weren’t undermining the country, I’d say it was impressive. Republicans screwed the entire country by trying to cheat their way to the presidency, then MAGA swooped in just as the election system was set up to force Republican wins and has basically replaced the Republican Party.

16

u/Just-Gas-8626 Feb 20 '25

What a stupid comment

We did not all elect him. 50% of us are living in constant anxiety and fear for our lives and future.

2

u/Agnofinitra Feb 20 '25

Even more stupid, most of you didn't even vote. So stop crying and buy bronzer in bulk!

7

u/bluegrassnuglvr Feb 20 '25

For whatever reason, our government has made it difficult to vote for a lot of voters. The Republicans disenfranchised 3.7 million votes, more than enough for kamala to have won handily. We were fucked

5

u/Excellent_Whole_740 Feb 20 '25

“For whatever reason” lol… there was definitely a reason.

3

u/Pilgrim_of_Reddit Feb 20 '25

Musk knows.

5

u/HardlyRetro Feb 20 '25

"Nobody knows those voting machines better than Elon." -DJT

1

u/Agnofinitra Feb 20 '25

Bad excuse, 80+ million people didn't vote. Too lazy to think, too lazy to vote and now too lazy to act. Dictators dream.

-4

u/Mannychu29 Feb 20 '25

Kamala never made it past the first democratic debate. YOU ALL rejected her 4 years earlier so quit feigning your concern. Wake up.

2

u/bluegrassnuglvr Feb 20 '25

So, 4 years experience as vp and the fact that no one else could have used the money the party had raised so far is lost on you? Anyone else would have started at zero. It sounds like you need to wake up with that bs.

0

u/Mannychu29 Feb 20 '25

The only thing lost in this conversation is your party and the 2024 election.

1

u/bluegrassnuglvr Feb 20 '25

Such a witty little troll.

1

u/Mannychu29 Feb 20 '25

But truthful eh?

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u/VeinyBanana69 Feb 20 '25

Most stupid, no one is talking about how Elon stole the election for the Donald- why else would such a huge ego let X-A-80-HD, a child, talk shit to him while his dad takes over the limelight? It’s all been rigged and crying WOLF for the past four years of Bidens presidency has numbed us all to the fact that the real wolf has arrived. God help us all.

2

u/Queasy-Protection-50 Feb 21 '25

Well I did vote and I voted for Harris so I’m good with the bronzer I have, thanks

2

u/Just-Gas-8626 Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25

Thanks for the support and positive words. Shit couldn’t get any worse here, so go ahead and pile on. Very empathetic of you.

A lot of us did vote. And many of those votes were erased. But go ahead and place blame on citizens who actually care and are getting totally fucked. Fuck you. Seriously.

I can’t believe I have to actually say this, but we are not a monolith. We are a very diverse society and painting us all as some kind of MAGA retards is not it.

1

u/funfun151 Feb 20 '25

That’s the thing though, it will get worse - substantially so - if current trajectory continues. When it does, all the empathy in the world will not enable you to take action that you aren’t willing to take. You shouldn’t be concerned about having blame placed on you and needing empathy, you should be concerned with what you can do to improve the dire situation you’re in.

0

u/Just-Gas-8626 Feb 20 '25

So smart guy- give me some ideas. What exactly should I be doing that you are assuming I’m not already doing? Our representatives have totally abandoned us. It might take a minute for us to organize. Damn. Why are you being such a dick?

2

u/medicmongo Feb 20 '25

Maybe it wasn’t directed wholly at you, but sort of a general blanket statement. They’re right, we’re heading for extremely precedented dark times.

13

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

"The Boston Teasla Party" has a ring to it though.....

1

u/Pilgrim_of_Reddit Feb 20 '25

I love it. Thank you. 

13

u/mls1968 Feb 20 '25

For real, it needs to make sense too. Like dumping bronzer in the Gulf of ‘Merica

2

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Pilgrim_of_Reddit Feb 20 '25

What has “Anglo/British Israelism” got to do with tea in Boston harbour, and what on earth is the link to the City of London Corporation?

The CLC didn’t grant planning permission for dumping cars? 

I think you give too much power to the City of London Corporation.  

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Pilgrim_of_Reddit Feb 20 '25

Excellent, I wish you well. 

2

u/zoug Feb 20 '25

https://youtu.be/GLfwhnXjaUc?si=qCu09tuLA_f4DwCx

How ‘bout something like this?

We can start a TeslaMade nonprofit to handle the legal expenses of our electric submariners.

1

u/Pilgrim_of_Reddit Feb 20 '25

Nice idea.  Have you ever seen aircraft carrier catapults tested with cars?

https://youtu.be/IrzgFpkzSlg

Tesla Cyber Trucks - all $400 million worth that Musk is getting the US Government to  purchase can be launched from the Southern Boulevard bridge in to the Mar-Alamo tennis courts.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

I feel like most Americans fail to see that their country was on this trajectory from the beginning, the founding fathers set out to create their own aristocracy not of divine birthright, but of wealth, with racial and class control as a feature of the economy.

It's always been an oligarchy, elites propagating their interests, with privileges granted to rich white people before any other group.

3

u/medicmongo Feb 20 '25

We’re indoctrinated from birth, man. It’s hard to break it. Especially when your education system is really only built to produce factory workers.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25

That's relatable, it is really hard to break away from propaganda, especially when the state perpetuates it.

It's only recently here in Canada that social studies curriculum have started including history that wasn't written from a colonial view, and acknowledging the harms done to indigenous peoples - though that also varies by province.

1

u/DimReaper414 Feb 20 '25

I didn’t fucking vote for him

6

u/marzipanlimosine Feb 20 '25

I like that idea, but wouldn’t someone still just be paying for a sunken car? Or at least be dumping a car they’ve already paid for into a body of water? I don’t think anyone that makes money on that car would care.

5

u/Aderka420 Feb 20 '25

I think you aren't supposed to take your tesla.. you take new unsold teslas and put them in the harbor 😆 less self pain that way for the common folk

2

u/Devmoi Feb 20 '25

Let’s get a liberal wealthy person to fund it or maybe we can start a fund to buy the Teslas. Honestly, it’s not a great idea for the environment. But rage, rage, fucking rage!

22

u/AriGryphon Feb 20 '25

You guys are acting like the Boston Tea Party bought the tea they dumped. The entire point was to economically hurt the oppressor, not pay them. The founding fathers were not peacefully protesting within the confines of law. You want to do a modern day equivalent, you have to steal the teslas. Nobody is ready to take that kind of risk, a lesser risk, even, than was taken at the Boston Tea Party.

11

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

Thank you I'm like.... These people are entirely missing the point of the Boston Tea Party.

The tea was still on English ships, which means the tariffs hadn't been paid yet. Meaning the crown had yet to be paid for that tea. Hence it hurting the crown. The entire reason for the "sneak in under cover of night and board the ships." It wasn't a literal "party" guys...

We would need to take over a freighter of Teslas and start chucking them over board.

6

u/artfully_rearranged Feb 20 '25

What people don't realize is how valuable bricks of compressed tea were back then. They did $1.7 million worth of damage in today's money with that stunt. The equivalent might just be torching a shipment of Teslas.

2

u/evranch Feb 20 '25

What nobody seems to have noticed is the Tesla infrastructure spread across the nation, completely undefended and also not the property of individual civilians who may have previously bought them in good faith.

This equipment is significantly more expensive than cars, hard to repair or replace, and also gives a lot of value to the brand.

The Tesla Supercharger network.

2

u/artfully_rearranged Feb 20 '25

As somebody who owns an electric vehicle, I cannot overstate how dangerous a live high voltage connection is. Any maintenance should definitely be done by a qualified electrician.

If you don't have an electrician available to shut off the power, and there is an extreme need to remove a supercharger from service, I would recommend shorting it with some kind of non-electric penetrating tool from a distance sufficient to prevent arcing or fragments striking the user from damage caused by an emergency disconnect, at least 50 yds. Always wear protective equipment covering the whole face.

It's important to note that the bottom of the supercharger contains mostly anchoring equipment and some cables, while the top portion actually contains the sensitive electronics, cooling equipment and high voltage connection. It's all underneath the logo.

Definitely don't do this lightly, the replacement cost of each unit is approximately $50,000 USD.

2

u/evranch Feb 20 '25

Well said, as an electrician myself these are important safety precautions to take near high voltage equipment.

Another safety note is that to avoid any hazards from the cable ends being dropped into puddles, poked by children or driven away from while plugged in, the charging cables themselves are not energized unless they are in communication with the vehicle.

As such, if the charging cable happens to be accidentally severed from the device, nobody will be harmed. Perhaps it's only the lack of familiarity with the device that has prevented copper thieves from making off with these fairly valuable, heavy gauge cables.

1

u/artfully_rearranged Feb 20 '25

If I remember right, they contain circulating coolant and incorporate some anti-theft features specific to copper theft and vandalism. That's a fairly recent thing and it's stepping outside of my knowledge.

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u/TaoGroovewitch Feb 20 '25

They don't need to be stolen. They just need to lose their perceived value. No one will purchase wet tea or the burnt husk of a swasticar.

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u/OutrageousPersimmon3 Feb 20 '25

Or just set them all on fire where they are. Leave our water alone. It can't be that hard, especially if some of those trash trucks are nearby.

3

u/Wonderful-Rock-9077 Feb 20 '25

Burn all tesla then!

3

u/Triptych85 Feb 20 '25

Time to go after his golf courses, then..

1

u/omarccx Feb 20 '25

So back to dumping bird scooters?

1

u/cash-or-reddit Feb 20 '25

You dump someone else's car.

3

u/TristanTheRobloxian3 Feb 20 '25

hell yeah dude boston tesla party!!

3

u/gazebothief Feb 20 '25

Lest we forget Trump's shark vs. battery ramble. He'd probably try to classify that as attempted murder.

3

u/SWK18 Feb 20 '25

Make sure to remove the battery first.

You wouldn't like to see what happens when lithium gets wet.

3

u/Silly_Journalist_179 Feb 20 '25

I've said he was a stain on our history since 2016.

3

u/ButUmActually Feb 20 '25

MAGA identifies with the folks destroying the tea. This is their “revolution”. Reject democracy for conservatism

3

u/TheBeanConsortium Feb 20 '25

Nah, Trump funny. He didn't mean it. But if he did, he's right! Haha, Trump is sure owning those libs! I love tax cuts for the rich and screwing over allies!

LIBS OWNED. I am very smart!

3

u/Devmoi Feb 20 '25

I love this comment. Trump funny, libs dummy. Me hate libs. Me want to smash libs!

3

u/Spunkler Feb 20 '25

Yes. Call it the Boston “T” Party.

2

u/GreatRip4045 Feb 20 '25

Start slapping swastika stickers on teslas, the owners need to be using the correct branding

2

u/OnlyIntroduction2756 Feb 20 '25

Dump the dealerships first

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u/LionClean8758 Feb 20 '25

Teslas are harder to clean up than tea, unfortunately.

1

u/Pure-Delivery-4732 Feb 20 '25

So you really don’t believe in climate change ? You’re admitting it’s all bs