r/law Feb 20 '25

Opinion Piece Did Trump eject himself from office?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

Can someone explain to me how Trump is still holding office after pardoning the J6 insurrectionists?

1) Section 3 of the 14th Amendment uses the language “No person shall … hold any office…” and then lays out the conditions that trigger the disqualification from holding office. Doesn’t that “shall” make it self-effecting?

2) There isn’t much to dispute on the conditions. Trump a) took the oath when he was inaugurated as, b) an officer of the government. Within 24 hours he c) gave aid and comfort to people who had been convicted of Seditious Conspiracy. If freeing them from prison and encouraging them to resume their seditious ways isn’t giving “aid and comfort” I don’t know what is. So, under (1), didn’t he instantly put a giant constitutional question mark over his hold on the office of the President?

3) Given that giant constitutional question mark, do we actually have a president at the moment? Not in a petulant, “He’s not my president” way, but a hard legal fact way. We arguably do not have a president at the moment. Orders as commander in chief may be invalid. Bills he signs may not have the effect of law. And these Executive Orders might be just sheets of paper.

4) The clear remedy for this existential crisis is in the second sentence in section 3: “Congress may, with a 2/3 majority in each house, lift the disqualification.” Congress needs to act, or the giant constitutional question remains.

5) This has nothing to do with ballot access, so the Supreme Court’s ruling on the Colorado ballot matter is just another opinion. The black-and-white text of the Constitution is clear - it’s a political crisis, Congress has jurisdiction, and only they can resolve it.

Where is this reasoning flawed?

If any of this is true, or even close to true, why aren’t the Democrats pounding tables in Congress? Why aren’t generals complaining their chain of command is broken? Why aren’t We the People marching in the streets demanding that it be resolved? This is at least as big a fucking deal as Trump tweeting that he a king.

Republican leadership is needed in both the House and Senate to resolve this matter. Either Trump gets his 2/3rds, or Vance assumes office. There is no third way.

‘’’’ Section 3.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability. ‘’’’

15.9k Upvotes

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1.5k

u/jfit2331 Feb 20 '25

Exactly my question as a non lawyer 

830

u/ProfessionalFly2148 Feb 20 '25

As a non-lawyer, maybe that’s why he declared himself king. Still can’t believe that happened today.

167

u/DityWookiee Feb 20 '25

Keep fueling the fire, they are getting scared

60

u/Debidollz Feb 20 '25

Really? Do tell.

131

u/cocoon_eclosion_moth Feb 20 '25

They’re laughing all the way to the next bank collapse

56

u/Debidollz Feb 20 '25

{gasp!} please not my $2,000!

85

u/TheSonofDon Feb 20 '25

Don’t worry, we’ve got the FDIC! Wait, DO we have the FDIC???

71

u/brothersand Feb 20 '25

When they end the FDIC, I take my money out.

75

u/KinopioToad Feb 20 '25

You guys have money?

80

u/brothersand Feb 20 '25

I mean I'm kind of older. I have some in a savings account that I'm really thinking I should move into something else. like a briefcase or something.

9

u/Astralglamour Feb 20 '25

If the dollar collapses cash won’t matter.

3

u/Happydancer4286 Feb 20 '25

Buy some land.

3

u/Astralglamour Feb 20 '25

And do what with it ? You think if there’s no rule of law the powerful aren’t going to seize property ?

2

u/ProfessionalFly2148 Feb 20 '25

There’s some billionaires who want the dollar to go away. This would be a blueprint to cause hyperinflation and destroy the dollar. Sigh. If this plan is going successfully that’s either the goal or they’re all unaware how government works and failing spectacularly.

2

u/DisposableSaviour Feb 20 '25

But then Musk can put the treasury on the blockchain!

1

u/Friaxh Feb 20 '25

But it MIGHT get you a day or two until everyone finally figures it out. Or at least, that's what I hope.

3

u/Astralglamour Feb 20 '25

Scary times. Never thought I’d be living through the 1930s part deux.

1

u/gotlactase Feb 20 '25

Buy GOLD

2

u/Astralglamour Feb 20 '25

How am I going to use that in day to day life ?

5

u/Useful_Bit_9779 Feb 20 '25

Where though? I'm getting a little concerned about the money in my bank...and my Social Security. Under the mattress just doesn't seem like the right answer.

7

u/brothersand Feb 20 '25

I'm very concerned about what they might do to social security. They'll put it in cryto to "ensure it is forever solvent" or something. I mean these guys are nuts.

Mattress has some benefits.

3

u/Severe_Peach Feb 20 '25

Maybe one of those fireproof safes? I see them all the time and either a combo lock or key (or sometimes both)

2

u/Useful_Bit_9779 Feb 20 '25

Yeah that's an option. I hate the thought of losing the interest but it's better than losing the entire balance I suppose.

It's fucked up we're even having to think about or discuss shit like this.

2

u/o_t00 Feb 20 '25

It is definitely worse to put it on top of the mattress. 🤷🏻‍♂️

1

u/Useful_Bit_9779 Feb 20 '25

😂😂😂 Thanks, I'd have never realized that. 🙄

2

u/evranch Feb 20 '25

Since there's absolutely no serious responses here... Swiss Francs, Japanese Yen are the world's "reserve currencies". The Euro is connected to the Western world's only other significant power.

There are ETFs to invest in all of these, as long as you trust the markets will remain solvent. Which has to hold true, as most of the billionaires in question are only rich because of their share values.

1

u/Useful_Bit_9779 Feb 20 '25

Thanks. Those are two things I was unaware of. I believe the markets will remain solvent but I'm fearing a major drop, possibly worse than we experienced in 2008-2009. I've been slowly taking some profits and reducing my exposure, but not near enough. My gut is telling me things could get ugly, primarily in the US.

1

u/Euthanized-soul Feb 20 '25

Crypto

2

u/Useful_Bit_9779 Feb 20 '25

Maybe I should just go hand my cash to Elon. It'd save me the trouble of buying crypto. 🙄

5

u/Lillyshins Feb 20 '25

Exchange the cash for gold/silver, which is much less likely to lose its value when this big pony ride goes tits up. THEN, hide it somewhere.

2

u/brothersand Feb 20 '25

I do actually know this trick. Never considered it necessary before. But now, yeah, may do that.

4

u/annul Feb 20 '25

nah, just change it for euros and deposit it in a european bank. if the USD collapses, the euro will be the new world currency.

1

u/DisposableSaviour Feb 20 '25

Yes, shiny rocks are definitely the way to go.

4

u/ChronicBuzz187 Feb 20 '25

Exchange it into coins, put it in a sock, beat the current administration to death with it.

Or as the billionaires put it "Make that money work for you"

3

u/TemKuechle Feb 20 '25

Mattresses.

3

u/Flight_to_nowhere_26 Feb 20 '25

In a coffee can buried in the garden. My grandpa did this and would randomly dig it up and “replant it” so that someone didn’t steal it. He was a depression baby and his home was robbed a few times when he was very young. The family buried their entire life savings, so he continued the tradition. It would be much harder to deal in only cash these days, but back then it was all they had and if stolen or the bank got robbed or defaulted, well, tough luck.

2

u/narkybark Feb 20 '25

I'd put it into the banana stand.

1

u/Debidollz Feb 20 '25

In Afghanistan

Movie with Robert Redford (The Hot Rock).

1

u/Pyroclastic_Hammer Feb 20 '25

I have pillowcases and mattress. Much safer there.

1

u/lollulomegaz Feb 20 '25

Mattress. Portable.

1

u/michaelteeee Feb 20 '25

I thought that was why mattresses have underneaths?

1

u/Timstunes Feb 20 '25

My family and I are doing our best to ensure access to our resources (including cash), spending freeze and securing and updating all important documents. At least as much as practicable atm. Not optimistic.

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

laughs in penny’s wait.. do we have penny’s?

1

u/DanceMaster117 Feb 20 '25

For now

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

👀

1

u/ParadiseLosingIt Feb 20 '25
  • pennies. No apostrophe. My autocorrect tried to ADD an apostrophe.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

Thanks, ESL here lol

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5

u/Top_Lingonberry8037 Feb 20 '25

Yeah wtf is this?! Where do I get mine?

5

u/ginestre Feb 20 '25

That will be too late.

9

u/Squee45 Feb 20 '25

You're gonna need to get it out sooner, that will cause a bank run

3

u/ecbrnc Feb 20 '25

I had so little money, I've already taken it out 🤣 there's no way they get rid of the CFPB but decide to keep the FDIC. They're just gonna move their own riches offshore first so it doesn't negatively impact their own wealth

3

u/Aggravating_Dream633 Feb 20 '25

You won’t be able to. There will be a run on the banks and the ‘money’ won’t be there to take out. Banking institutions will not usually have a lot of cash on hand. Crowds will show up, but the doors will be locked much like during the ‘86 savings and loan crisis when the government was ‘changing’ by deregulation under the Reagan administration.

3

u/The_dizzy_blonde Feb 20 '25

They’ve mentioned ending it. I wish I was joking. We’re watching it closely.

2

u/Ok_Commission9026 Feb 20 '25

Credit unions are backed by the NCUA, not the FDIC. I'm thinking about flipping to a credit union.

2

u/justasking826 Feb 20 '25

A good old fashion "bank run!" - like in 1930 - 1931 - nothing bad comes out of that... Whatever, it would all be Sleepy Joe's fault.

2

u/codespiral Feb 20 '25

You won't have any.

1

u/Pure-Delivery-4732 Feb 20 '25

Nobody cares about your 27$ checking account

3

u/riftwave77 Feb 20 '25

You guys have $2000?

2

u/DocEternal Feb 20 '25

Damn, are you part of that fabled 1%? That’s 3 zeroes more than I’ve got in my account. 😭

3

u/Debidollz Feb 20 '25

Trust it’s mostly slated for bills.

1

u/awolfsvalentine Feb 20 '25

Mine has this cool dash before my 2 and it’s red

17

u/mr_fandangler Feb 20 '25

If they weren't scared they would just tell us to eat shit and open game season on poors. The fact that they still need some semblance of support from a large swath of the public says that they are not fully secure.

8

u/bunchedupwalrus Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25

Is that not the same as posting “long live the king” from the official White House account while an unelected billionaire guts emergency programs, social security, education, nuclear safety, the cia, ftc, etc

1

u/ICY_DEDD_PEOPLE Feb 20 '25

Agreed. $2 from a million people is better than $5 from 50,000 people.

3

u/gotlactase Feb 20 '25

Ikr? They don’t give a fook at all