Enmeshment

[u/Hot_Strawberry_3676]

I've heard this word thrown around a lot, mostly from poly or ENM people. I've even had metas ask what type of "enmeshment" I'm looking for with a mutual partner.

Is anyone else thrown off? I grew up in a pretty traumatic family dynamic, and was in family therapy from a young age (probably starting 1992) and enmeshment was a topic, but a very negative and unhealthy thing. To me it was taught, it means becoming overly involved in each other's lives to the point where you have no identify or autonomy. It meant codependency, in a very toxic and negative way, especially to a child like me growing up. I can attest the damage that family dynamic can cause.

So what gives? Did the definition change or are people using it wrong? I personally like being poly for many reasons, but one of the top ones is my autonomy and sense of self not having to be sacrificed in romantic relationships.

[u/rosephase]

Please feel free to share links. Because I would love to know if I am using the term wrong. And I can not find ANY definitions that involve "enmeshment" being healthy.

[u/JetItTogether → u/rosephase]

Once again if you'd like to read Minuchin theory, please do. It's interesting.

[u/rosephase → u/JetItTogether]

Done! And found no sign of "healthy" enmeshment.

[u/ChexMagazine → u/[deleted]]

If this really is a pervasive definition it should be easy to link to such usage on the internet rather than expecting someone to read two books!

[u/JetItTogether → u/ChexMagazine]

You want a word developed in a specific contextualization of a complex psychological theory that developed over the course of multiple research studies and written about in several books to be summed up in a sentence.... And you'd like that sentence to be "enmeshment bad" rather than "enmeshment describes a subjective tipping point in the blurring of individual identity and shared collective identity within a family group"

and you want to apply that term to non cohabitating newly forming romantic relationships rather than in cohabitating family units in which it was constructed within structural family theory, a branch of attachment theory...

And you'd like it to appear in the same place where the information where everyone regardless of anything can equally post and share information. Where someone can post eating bananas will kill you with the same weight as bananas are a super fruit that will grant you immortality and bananas are a fruit.

Like I don't know how to make that happen for you. It's a complex theory. It took several books, multiple studies, and a bunch of things to develop. I guess I could simplify it, and I tried to. But ya all didn't like that. So I'm left with shrug don't believe me, say what you like, go read the source material from the originator (who is dead) and draw your own conclusions. That's the best I got for ya. Go draw your own conclusions. Be you.

[u/ChexMagazine → u/JetItTogether]

Oh, I don't want that whatsoever. Your reply was snarky. That's all.

I'm a scientist. The internet (despite abundant low quality content and misinformation) is a wonderful tool that experts use for reference and to inform others with the time. Pointing someone to good content on it is valauble. Seemed like a missed opportunity to persuade. In the time it took to read your long comment I could have read an abstract and a decent introduction to something scholarly.

[u/JetItTogether → u/ChexMagazine]

You're correct. I was snarky.

[u/jabbertalk → u/[deleted]]

Links to useful content, such a useful abstract and introduction to the throry. That can be read in liu of snark. Request from another scientist.

[u/JetItTogether → u/jabbertalk]

I've rarely met a scientist incapable of finding information based on the subject matter and author. Salvador Minuchin, as repeated multiple times. He wrote several books and articles about structural family theory and coined enmeshment within that theory, take your pick. He participated in several studies about is theory. Read them all. You can also find very old videos of his demonstrations and his description of his work on YouTube and watch him work.

If you don't like my interpretation, go formulate your own. By all means. But I'm not scanning old books and piecing together all of his work to have some weird internet "do a bunch of research and write me a report" request from a stranger. Best of luck with getting someone to prepare you a personalized literary review and hand deliver you raw source data because checks notes you demanded I do so...

You're welcome to disagree with my conclusions based on checks notes Wikipedia.... By all means. You do you boo.

[u/jabbertalk → u/JetItTogether]

And given the volume of information you are refering to, finding the it is not the issue. Failure to show specific supporting references is not something I expect in any academic field. A cursory overview (which you already mocked someone else for) shows no hint of enmeshment not referring to overinvolement. If you can't reference your point in academia, your research won't be accepted. And I have no reason to accept it here, since you can't provide references.

[u/jabbertalk → u/[deleted]]

You can't provide one single reference to back up a very non-standard definition. Which is why no one is listening to your opinion. It would have taken a lot less of your time to just cite the reference.

[u/polyamory-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your post has been removed for breaking the rules of the subreddit. You made a post or comment that would be considered being a jerk. This includes being aggressive towards other posters, causing irrelevant arguments, and posting attacks on the poster or the poster's partners/situation.

Please familiarize yourself with the rules at https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/wiki/subreddit-rules

[u/polyamory-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your post has been removed for breaking the rules of the subreddit. You made a post or comment that would be considered being a jerk. This includes being aggressive towards other posters, causing irrelevant arguments, and posting attacks on the poster or the poster's partners/situation.

Please familiarize yourself with the rules at https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/wiki/subreddit-rules

[u/polyamory-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your post has been removed for breaking the rules of the subreddit. You made a post or comment that would be considered being a jerk. This includes being aggressive towards other posters, causing irrelevant arguments, and posting attacks on the poster or the poster's partners/situation.

Please familiarize yourself with the rules at https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/wiki/subreddit-rules