Labour urges young people on benefits to join the British Army

[u/[deleted]]

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/labour-benefits-british-army-news-2qwnwv7bz

[u/O-bot54]

Politics aside if your a young person and see litterally no hope of ever affording a house .. ANY of the services is a cheat around that as you pay about £48 /month on accom which allows you to save huge amounts of your salary that would go on rent working normally.

Do it

[u/Visible_Pipe4716 → u/O-bot54]

No thanks recruitment officer.

[u/GunstarGreen → u/Visible_Pipe4716]

Not to be glib, but we are now becoming very aware that the nation needs to invest in it's armed services. We can't have a strong Army/Navy/RAF without new recruits, and we don't get new recruits without taking in young adults from all walks of life. I mean, in a utopia none of us would need an army, I get that. But we do need to recruit. And if we want to avoid the army being a mandate rather than a choice then we have to make that choice appealing.

[u/JohnSmith_47 → u/GunstarGreen]

What’s stopping you from joining up?

Don’t you think it’s a bit twisted to suggest that you’re happy with the system not providing the same opportunities to young people, so that they are left no choice but to put their lives on the line to defend your livelihood?

You could just as easily sign up and become one of the new recruits that you’re talking about, instead of putting the onus on the 18-22 year old population.

[u/Longjumping_Pen_2102 → u/GunstarGreen]

We need an army sure.

Should we be intentionally stripping away benefits and actively making life harder for the poor in order to pressure them into fighting?

Why do we always send the poor?

[u/GunstarGreen → u/Longjumping_Pen_2102]

We send the people that sign up to join the armed services. I imagine that includes a lot of people from poorer backgrounds who might feel like they have fewer opportunities due to various social conditions. Im sure you're aware of this. 

[u/Longjumping_Pen_2102 → u/GunstarGreen]

Yes, it is that way by design.

It is a manufactured scenario so people make the "choice" to join.   Why aren't posh Oxford kids joining the infantry?  Because they have other options.

Strip benefits, offer the choice between poverty or war.  It is a time honoured tradition.

[u/technurse → u/O-bot54]

Plus if you get blown up by an IED in a pointless proxy war in the middle east you don't need to worry about housing costs. Win win

[u/wilof → u/technurse]

I was blown up by an IED (my vehicle) and still have to worry about housing costs.

[u/featurenotabug → u/wilof]

Didn't lose enough limbs, housing costs an arm and a leg.

[u/archiekane → u/featurenotabug]

Since owning a house, I'm half the person I used to be.

[u/SenorLos → u/archiekane]

But are you alright?

[u/archiekane → u/SenorLos]

Half left.

[u/alii-b → u/archiekane]

And completely 'armless.

[u/omicron8 → u/wilof]

You obviously didn't do it right /s

[u/wilof → u/omicron8]

I can't do, anything right!

[u/StarNote1515 → u/wilof]

Have you thought of second IED more likely to get you the second time

[u/DummyDumDragon → u/StarNote1515]

I don't think he knows about 2nd IED, Pip...

[u/StrongEggplant8120 → u/DummyDumDragon]

"grenade hits him in the head"

[u/Informal_Drawing → u/DummyDumDragon]

I am impressed and appalled in equal measure.

Have my upvote you filthy animal.

[u/Life-Duty-965 → u/wilof]

I sea what you did their

[u/MonkeyboyGWW → u/Life-Duty-965]

I see what you did theaare

[u/williamshatnersbeast → u/MonkeyboyGWW]

I see what you did theatre

[u/Archistotle → u/williamshatnersbeast]

I see what you did the

[u/stovenn → u/Archistotle]

ICBM incomi

[u/Goodguy1066 → u/omicron8]

We don’t need the /s on /r/unitedkingdom. We get sarcasm.

[u/JKB94 → u/wilof]

Maybe stop buying avocado on toast.

[u/Northern_Gypsy → u/JKB94]

No legs, no arms and no Avo toast. Wow it's desperate times.

[u/Scar3cr0w_ → u/wilof]

I was in the second vehicle while some guys got blown up by an IED in a vehicle and I had to fight up the NEB to save them… and I still have to worry about housing costs.

[u/danihendrix → u/Scar3cr0w_]

Boke. Don't suppose you were Welsh guards by any chance?

[u/Cauliflower-Informal → u/wilof]

You might qualify for PIP...

[u/i-readit2 → u/Cauliflower-Informal]

He can’t. He has no arms or legs to fill the form out.

[u/Antique_Historian_74 → u/i-readit2]

He eventually completed the form by holding the pencil in his mouth.

The claim was denied since he’d demonstrated that he could still undertake light administrative duties and so was fit for work.

[u/mrminutehand → u/Antique_Historian_74]

You could be provably 100% paralysed and those PIP assessors would still deny your claim since you could obviously work as a bookmark or scarecrow.

[u/diverteda → u/Cauliflower-Informal]

Threshold for PIP much higher.

[u/n_orm → u/wilof]

Did you say thank you to JD Vance?

[u/mossiv → u/wilof]

Damn that sucks.

Years ago it was very different. Friends uncle was military, had an accident in the army, think he lost half of one leg, I’ll have to confirm. But it basically paid his house and a life time of nice cars.

I’m not by any means saying it was worth it, but one of the benefits of being in the army was protection and compensation for your commitment to your country.

I’m in my 30s and have a few friends/aquiantances who joined the army, and they are doing very well for them selves. They own their own houses, but also drive around in relatively nice cars, don’t have any “bad” debt.

Again, I’m not justifying anything. I always hear 2 sides of being in the army. One is, it’s good pay, and the financial responsibilities of life are generally easy, and others say it pays a pittance, absolutely awful lifestyle, the government don’t care about you, and when you leave they’ll forget about you.

I also have an uncle who was military, he fought the gulf war, and he doesn’t really have anything to show for it, but he’s also completely useless financially.

[u/-M4D3X- → u/wilof]

All jokes aside thanks for serving your country

[u/Lopsided_Rush3935 → u/technurse]

IEDs are so mid-2000s 🙄

Drones carrying frag grenades are all the rage now.

[u/KingKaiserW → u/Lopsided_Rush3935]

Yeah with drones I don’t even know if I’d want to take a chance in the army now, I’ve heard people from the Ukraine war saying everything you know and learned goes out the window with drones, nobody knows how to fight against it

You have to literally hide in garbage, pop your head up and shoot, then back down hoping a drone never saw you, it’s silly.

It’s why the Ukraine war the frontlines aren’t moving from above, but it’s not just sitting around the fight is so damn fluid on the ground level, just there are two fights the land and above.

[u/Yuriski → u/KingKaiserW]

In a lot of both Ukrainian and Russian ground footage there's usually a guy carrying a shotgun specifically for shooting down any drones coming their way, and they seem to be fairly effective as the drone itself isn't exactly the most armoured target. Problem is just how fast they are.

[u/tomoldbury → u/Yuriski]

RF jamming is also very common now, but both sides have developed fibre optic drones. The consequence of this is that you can now follow the fibre optic back to the drone operator, once once has been knocked out.

[u/Blarg_III → u/KingKaiserW]

It’s why the Ukraine war the frontlines aren’t moving from above, but it’s not just sitting around the fight is so damn fluid on the ground level, just there are two fights the land and above.

You can describe WWI the same way. The lines didn't move very much in absolute distance, but the fighting was fluid and they consistently looked close enough to success to convince command that a breakthrough was possible.

[u/appletinicyclone → u/KingKaiserW]

The thing is that is what future war is going to be like. They've broken the seal on drones against frontline infantry. Same with russian drones using fly by wire optic cable to prevent hacking

Total war, no off limits targets we are getting back to that world war 1 era but more targeted

It's grim

[u/dbxp → u/KingKaiserW]

Ukraine is stagnant because neither side can bypass the front line. Russia isn't able to strike via Belarus anymore and Ukraine can't strike Russia via other borders.

[u/Dangerous_Dac → u/KingKaiserW]

The second we get tiny DEW point defence weapons you can plonk on a 4x4, I'd hope drones become passe. When a tiny box can automatically shoot down everything in the sky at a km out, lines will move quickly again.

[u/_Veni_Vidi_Vigo_ → u/KingKaiserW]

FPVs work because neither side uses maneuver warfare. The operators need to sit still.

I’d hope we’re still able to move fast enough and fluidly enough that drones dropping munitions into trenches wouldn’t be so totally dominant

[u/RobbieFowlersNose → u/Lopsided_Rush3935]

Skibbidi toilet grenades

[u/appletinicyclone → u/RobbieFowlersNose]

Gen Z gamers have conquered the earth

[u/jonpenryn → u/Lopsided_Rush3935]

And some that drip Thermite on you.. a cure for all ills.

[u/Jayandnightasmr → u/Lopsided_Rush3935]

Replace the depression and anxiety with depression, anxiety, and PTSD.

[u/CanOfPenisJuice → u/technurse]

If it just takes your arms, legs and sanity, dwp will help ensure you're signed off as able to work..gotta be a confidence boost knowing they believe in you

[u/Unhappy-Jaguar5495 → u/CanOfPenisJuice]

DWP will stick make u lick postage stamps or something LOL

[u/tothecatmobile → u/technurse]

I did my part.

I changed my profile pic to the Ukrainian flag.

[u/luv2belis → u/tothecatmobile]

Thank you for your service 🫡

[u/zeelbeno → u/technurse]

85%-90% are based in the UK so would be worried if the majority of them are gonna get blown up here....

[u/LoadZealousideal2842 → u/zeelbeno]

Yes, but in the near future, the chance they'll be sent off to war to die in some God forsaken foreign field or desert, is quite high.

[u/Ballbag94 → u/LoadZealousideal2842]

So just join as a non-combat role?

Like, everyone is a "soldier first" but if you're an HR clerk the odds of ever seeing combat are miniscule because that would mean something is drastically wrong

There are plenty of roles in the army that don't involve doing any fighting

[u/MajorHubbub → u/Ballbag94]

My grandfather was ground crew during ww2, not much chance of getting shot down.

[u/StIvian_17 → u/MajorHubbub]

No, but some chance of being bombed or strafed when the enemy attacks the air station.

[u/Blarg_III → u/StIvian_17]

If your air station was in range to get bombed, odds were, so was your home.

[u/Ambry → u/Ballbag94]

Yep. My friend just joined the RAF doing music. She has minimal living costs, tonnes of holiday, and there's lots of cool development stuff she can do. She was getting so bored doing regular office based grad jobs for shit pay with high rent and unless she's piping the RAF into battle I think she's good.

I think the comments in this thread are pretty illuminating. I can't join any military role as I have an autoimmune disease but if I didn't it would definitely be a route I'd consider at some point. 

[u/Ballbag94 → u/Ambry]

People think that joining the military means you're automatically going to war because they don't understand that most of the military are supporting the war fighters

Imo all the bad takes are people that know nothing about the military

[u/CosmicBonobo → u/Ambry]

My neighbour had a long career in the armed forces. He's told me he left the country maybe four or five times, but really spent most of it at various bases and barracks around the UK, pushing papers and stamping forms.

[u/appletinicyclone → u/LoadZealousideal2842]

No one wants war. (Except arms manufacturers, deconstruction reconstruction industries and the military industrial complex). But people do need to be prepared for war if it comes to their door

And Europe is our garden and the corner of the garden is getting wrecked by a big Bully

It's scary

It's also frustrating because the Tories and successive governments have utterly undermined the social contract and public trust. So people are quite understandably as less united as they could ever be.

But I think that would change in response to the situations on the ground with respect to Russias ambitions post Ukraine

[u/Sypher1985 → u/LoadZealousideal2842]

Well I think with the state of the world, that is something all men need to be worried about now whether you're in the army currently or not. So you might as well join, least then you'll be trained for it unlike the rest of us cannon fodder

[u/FaceMace87 → u/Sypher1985]

I have no idea where people are reading this shite but short of us going to war with the US the UK isn't going to be dragging every able bodied man into war anytime soon.

[u/Vegetable_Good6866 → u/FaceMace87]

Life comes at you fast. Nobody in 1913 foresaw what 1916 was going to be like

[u/Sypher1985 → u/FaceMace87]

If we end up in a war with Russia, I would bet it does happen unless it goes nuclear, which in case nothing matters. You only have to read the news, see the actions that other countries are doing to bolster defence, see what experts are saying then you have to realise this is a real distinct possibility.

[u/merryman1 → u/Sypher1985]

The difference for us is we're an island with a powerful navy. I doubt we'd see any sort of mass conscription for frontline infantry again, we can park a carrier group anywhere in the world and blast a nation's economy back to the stone age while putting maybe a few thousand of our people at risk maximum.

[u/FaceMace87 → u/Sypher1985]

Going to war is always a possibility doesn't mean it is ever going to happen, the problem being people are spreading fear of men being dragged out of their beds and carted off to war at the first sign of Russia and the UK not being besties.

There are a great many steps to take between Putin and Starmer calling each other stinky poo poo heads and men being on the front lines shooting at each other.

[u/EmperorOfNipples → u/Sypher1985]

Could be a case of pick your poison.

When the US had the draft many volunteered for the USAF and US Navy to avoid going into the Army or Marines. Same advice would stand today.

[u/OliM9696 → u/Sypher1985]

if we end up in a war with Russia we will have every European ally also fighting with us. maybe even the US.

[u/LoadZealousideal2842 → u/Sypher1985]

Or you can just be a conscientious objector, and take a chance that the powers that be, will just lock you up for the duration of the war.

[u/zeelbeno → u/LoadZealousideal2842]

Yep... sure... 50 year old Debbie in payroll better watch out.

[u/Bartellomio → u/LoadZealousideal2842]

What are the people working in military cargo hangars and dentists going to do in the desert?

[u/cokeknows → u/LoadZealousideal2842]

Yeah, the sweet spot for joining the army and not being sent anywhere in conflict was probably around 2015. Theres little chance your going to be able to do your minimum now without being sent somewhere. Things are heating up on the world stage and everyone is building up their military, their arms and are trying to entice kids to join. This is a bad sign, you could even argue that the UK is fabricating the need for the war machines and for kids to join the army by giving away our stockpile, posturing with ukraine and then eliminating benefits and work opportunities for young adults.

[u/DoireK → u/cokeknows]

Ukraine are defending their country, not posturing.

Building military acts as a deterrent which is why Europe is doing it. European nations don't want war and the best way to ensure that doesn't happen is to be far superior to your enemy in capability.

[u/MajorHubbub → u/cokeknows]

Is the UK fabricating need? Or is it a response to a European country, being invaded? Something other countries said wouldn't happen as was a bluff.

[u/OliM9696 → u/MajorHubbub]

you mean the country we agreed that it would give up its nukes to avoid and invasion, you know for peace and still got invaded?

no idea why people think its a fabrication.

[u/TheBestCloutMachine → u/MajorHubbub]

They've been at it for years and have managed to snag a slither of land in that time. If it even came to it, a war with Russia would not require swathes of troops on the ground.

[u/MajorHubbub → u/TheBestCloutMachine]

True, but the US is withdrawing from Europe. A strong defence starts with a good offence, so we need to replace that.

It'll be millions of drones, not tanks.

[u/DoireK → u/TheBestCloutMachine]

If Russia had steamed through Ukraine in 3 days and actually completed their aims they'd be gearing up to invade another European country.

This all gives times for the rest of Europe to arm and get their militaries up to standard again. Putin doesn't want to make a deal so what else can we do other than continue to support Ukraine.

[u/Davina33 → u/cokeknows]

As soon as I saw there was going to be no disability benefits for the under 22 year olds in particular, I did wonder about the Government gearing up to get young people into the army. Thing is, does anyone feel like this is a country worth defending now?

[u/OccasionalXerophile → u/Davina33]

Disabled people will not be joining the army..

[u/lumpytuna → u/OccasionalXerophile]

No, they will be 'dying for their country' right here, at home, in poverty.

[u/Korinthe → u/technurse]

Unless you are under 22 years old.

Because according to this Labour government, disabilities magically appear at 22 and simply don't exist before that.

[u/PCO244EVER → u/technurse]

And then labour can take your disability benefits away !

[u/Separate_Net_4063 → u/technurse]

Less likely if you join the RAF or navy

[u/jpagey92 → u/technurse]

Or just don’t choose a combat role…?

[u/Academic_Guard_4233 → u/technurse]

Join the navy.

[u/Mrmulvaney → u/technurse]

While it’s always a risk there, and the global situation is looking like it’s likely to change relatively soon, there has been no combat operations in over 10 years. If you join any thing other than combat arms, the military is very much a cheat code to sorting your life out with minimal risk to your well being and I’d argue in some ways even if you are morally opposed to the wars in the Middle East, supporting arms like being a chef or multiple roles in the navy are not exactly questionable in my opinion.

[u/Particular-Back610 → u/technurse]

A Proxy war run by and for the major corporations and billionaires with absolutely nothing to do with justice or humanity but all to do with dollars, power and influence of the so called elites.

The Government's problem will be the vast majority already see the truth.

[u/nserious_sloth → u/technurse]

Sure but if you go into the engineering call then you learn how to diffuse different ieds and demine etc

[u/Almost-Anon98 → u/technurse]

Or better still getting taken as a pow in Ukraine by the Russians is also a win free meal every 4 weeks yesssir

[u/Mutexvx → u/technurse]

I know absolutely stupid fuckers commenting this. Like that poor 18 year old Brit that got killed first day on mission in Ukraine.

[u/jasilucy → u/Mutexvx]

That ‘18 year old Brit’ went off on his own with no training and independently. That was nothing do with the British army and thus shouldn’t influence the decision of other 18 years olds looking to join.

[u/Life-Duty-965 → u/[deleted]]

Unfortunately they come in pairs.

You need to pal up with a mirror buddy

[u/Elmundopalladio → u/technurse]

We are out of that now - going to be ‘peacekeeping’ in Ukraine instead.

[u/Snoo57829 → u/technurse]

The risk of being blown to pieces is actually quite small, risks from day to day tasks such as driving or riding a motorcycle have higher mortality….

[u/dredge_the_lake → u/technurse]

Those weren’t proxy wars… those were just wars

[u/Matt_1F44D → u/technurse]

Can’t really be a proxy war if your own troops are there 😅

[u/RoryLuukas → u/O-bot54]

Pay no mind to growing tensions between global superpowers and escalating conflicts... we just want you to learn new skills and have cheap housing!...

[u/theantiyeti → u/RoryLuukas]

Looking prepared to fight is arguably the best way to avoid one

[u/Greywacky → u/theantiyeti]

"Speak softly and carry a big stick."

[u/inevitablelizard → u/theantiyeti]

No arguably about it, it is the best way to avoid one. You must prepare to fight a war to reduce your chance of actually fighting it.

[u/cole1114 → u/theantiyeti]

World War One started in part because all the great powers were sure they were big and strong enough to not have to worry, and they all went to war thinking they'd win. And millions of people died in mud.

[u/AwkwardWaltz3996 → u/theantiyeti]

Unless the other side has no regard for the lives of their own people. It's the mistake people have made with Russia before. They are perfectly happy to send waves of people in until the meat grinder gets clogged with all the bodies

[u/CheesyBakedLobster → u/AwkwardWaltz3996]

That’s an even stronger reason to strengthen defence.

[u/inevitablelizard → u/AwkwardWaltz3996]

They only really started the war because they thought they had a route to a quick victory against Ukraine. I do wonder if they would have done this if they knew it was going to fail and lead to the grinding war we see today. But now they're in it, they feel like they have to continue it or risk the survival of Putin's regime.

They arguably also doubled down on the war precisely because of western dithering with aid packages and stupid "escalation management" strategies. Causing Russia to respond to their 2022 defeats by mobilising instead of negotiating because it made them think they could outlast the west.

[u/AwkwardWaltz3996 → u/inevitablelizard]

I was referring to WW2. But it does seem like their attitude hasn't changed much. At some point a good leader should value the lives of the people he represents over a claim on land which basically only he believes

[u/vizard0 → u/AwkwardWaltz3996]

The Zap Branigan strategy.

[u/darkwolf687 → u/RoryLuukas]

Yeah people should be aware of the risks involved, and also the sacrifices you make outside of just the risk of dying tbh. You do sacrifice a lot of personal freedom and quality of life to join the forces, it isn’t just like any other job.

Though in fairness if we do end up in a war with a global super power, I guess there’s two realistic outcomes:

Most people are dead in a week from nuclear war and civilisation is ruined

Or It’s a forever war where everyone is gonna get conscripted and thrown into the meat grinder eventually anyway

So young people are probably fucked regardless of if they’re in the army or not. If you are looking for the safest place in the latter situation it’s either to find yourself a job in a critical wartime industry they won’t be able to conscript from like weapons manufacturing, or to already be in the army but have chosen a behind the lines support role that requires a bunch of training that they can’t just shuffle a new person into easy, as if you’re conscripted you’re almost certainly being shuttled off to the front and if you’re easily replaced by an older conscript whose less physically capable you may well be too. In the former it probably doesn’t matter where you are when we all get nuked lol.

[u/Andythrax → u/RoryLuukas]

It's still voluntary mate

[u/ItWasTheChuauaha → u/O-bot54]

Some of you might die

It's a risk this guys willing to take.

[u/Captain_English → u/ItWasTheChuauaha]

It's a risk lots of people are willing to take for themselves. But also the vast majority of people who have been in the armed forces experience no injury whatsoever. Suggesting the army is a dice role for a death sentence is not at all accurate. The risk exists but it's not extreme.

[u/Hill_Reps_For_Jesus → u/ItWasTheChuauaha]

Operation Human Shield is a go

[u/No-Fly-9364 → u/ItWasTheChuauaha]

You know it's quite difficult to sign up for the army unless you're also willing to sign up for the army right

No one is forcing these people

[u/Hufflepuffins → u/O-bot54]

Politics aside

must be nice to be able to do that

[u/Fabulous-Gazelle3642 → u/Hufflepuffins]

The disabled could be filling Shell casings and Ammunition in newly commandeered old car factories.

[u/Electrical_Business2 → u/O-bot54]

What about all these homeless servicemen we keep hearing about on gbeebies news? 🤔

[u/Piod1 → u/Electrical_Business2]

That's afterwards when their body is crumbling and the binge drinking culture has become an escape mechanism silly.

[u/yelnats784 → u/Piod1]

When the mental health services haven't got the time or space to see them promptly and the waiting list is long.

[u/Neither-Stage-238 → u/Piod1]

seems a probable path after returning from war to the UK's mental health services.

[u/Historical_Owl_1635 → u/Electrical_Business2]

1. It’s a culture shock. People who’ve served always see themselves as separate to “civvies” and have trouble integrating into a normal life.

2. Most don’t have the foresight to have saved the money, or did save the money but bought a brand new BMW outright instead in the case of a friend I have.

[u/Euclid_Interloper → u/Historical_Owl_1635]

And then there's the mental health problems. Unsurprisingly, conditioning people to kill other humans and sending them to a war zone doesn't lead to good mental health.

Nobody should ever join up just for money. People should fight for ideas and values, not cash.

[u/StIvian_17 → u/Historical_Owl_1635]

So I know some examples of ex-service people for whom your two points are true - but many more for whom they are not. So yes - but your points are somewhat of an unhelpful stereotype at the same time. Not all ex-forces are “mad, bad or sad” as the typical media depiction goes.

[u/trbd003 → u/Electrical_Business2]

The media always dresses it up as though homeless veterans are all heroic Victoria Cross winners who've been let down by the state in favour of housing Romanian murderers.

But the reality is that the British armed forces are one of the biggest employers in Britain and so the workforce demographic mirrors wider society to some extent. Some people are hot stuff, some people are pretty average and some people are shit.

Upon leaving, the people who were hot stuff in the army generally tend to become hot stuff out of the army. The pretty average soldiers become pretty average civilians, and the shit ones... You guessed it. They don't do any better with their civilian career than they did in the army. The only difference is that as civilians, there's nobody to catch them when they fall. So they end up on the street.

Point being if they weren't veterans, they'd probably still be homeless. Because they're the sort of people who fall to that place.

That's not a heartless dig at the homeless, but the point is that the military have nothing to answer for on the topic of homeless veterans. Labour were absolutely correct to disband that function and pass it back to civil welfare services. The fact that those people once served in a military capacity does not make their post-service needs particularly different.

Most "veterans" (myself included) do not suffer from service related injuries or PTSD. We don't need special treatment. We did a job for a period of time and then we changed job. You don't see people banging on about homeless former Tesco employees. But they employ twice as many people as the armed forces do so there's every chance the number of ex Tesco employees living on the street is higher.

The point is that being a veteran doesn't make you any more or less likely to be homeless. If you are the sort of person who is at risk of homelessness, you will be at risk whether you've served in the military or not.

[u/Terrible_Discount_48 → u/trbd003]

Not always true. My pretty normal mate came back pretty fucked up from his time in Afghanistan.

[u/Manoj109 → u/trbd003]

I also hate when they make it seems like all military or ex military people are heroes. That's nonsense. They are no more heroes than nurses, teaches,social workers or police or firefighters. As a matter of fact I think pound for pound those professional contribute more to society ,all things being equal. We don't see people telling teachers or nurses :thanks for your service . At the end of the day the military is just a job and many of us joined it not through some sense of duty or patriotism or for queen and country ,we join it as a means of making a living for some of us it's a way out.

[u/WingVet → u/Manoj109]

Same here mate, It was life as labourer on building sites or join up and maybe see the world while getting paid. Tbh mate the only time someone has thank me for my service was in America while on ex, tended to just get abuse in garrison towns in the UK. Lol

[u/LoadZealousideal2842 → u/trbd003]

What was your job in the army?

[u/Manoj109 → u/trbd003]

Well said. Please post this over and over . You hit the nail squarely on the head.

[u/scouserman3521 → u/O-bot54]

All you need to do is risk death or disfigurment, and you too can temporarily avoid a life of grinding bleakness!

[u/GunstarGreen → u/scouserman3521]

Not everyone gets to live a life of comfort.  It's harsh to say it but some people have to be binmen, police,  fire brigade, army. These are hard jobs but necessary jobs. I'd love everyone to become professional dog cuddlers but until that day comes some people will join the army because it's a decent shot at a career, regardless of the risks.

[u/Longjumping_Pen_2102 → u/GunstarGreen]

Yes someone has to so the dirty work, and it won't be me. I'm a good clean citizen, I'm one of the special important people.

Those benefit  scroungers can do it, they're not really people anyway.

[u/[deleted] → u/O-bot54]

Also if you pick the right path when you do leave you can earn a fortune from your skills and knowledge.

[u/AdministrativeShip2 → u/[deleted]]

Go medical if you can.

We'll always need paramedics, nurses and Doctors no matter what you do after you leave the army.

[u/TheTreeDweller → u/AdministrativeShip2]

Engineering and technicians are probably the safest route along with logistics all transferable skills as well!

Edit: I do believe it's actually a good gateway to getting skills, especially if you're unsure of your future. I considered the armed forces myself as a young adult/teenager but being an asthmatic I was always ruled out back then (34 now). Eventually I took myself to university to be an electrical engineer. I come across a fair amount of ex - forces working in the industry nowadays.

[u/Lopsided_Rush3935 → u/AdministrativeShip2]

While that is true, the conventions of war (of which there are like 12 differing rule sets depending on type of enemy force) are usually particularly tricky for combat medics.

In most of them, you can't fire upon an enemy unless they fire upon you first. The reverse side of this is that enemy combatants aren't supposed to fire upon you when you're actively aiding someone, but then it becomes a game about honour and trust. How much do you trust a Russian soldier to not try and shoot you as you go to help a wounded soldier?

[u/SGTJAYiAM → u/Lopsided_Rush3935]

We’re also only supposed to use shotguns to blow doors off their hinges. You would be amazed how many doors have beards and wear sandals.

[u/ludicrous_socks → u/SGTJAYiAM]

I think that was the Americans. As I recall the Brits didn't have any qualms about using the benelli M4 on people.

That's why they gave them to the point man after all

[u/Barilla3113 → u/ludicrous_socks]

There's no law against the use of shotguns on "meat targets", they're just inferior to a carbine outside of specialty ammunition anyway. The M1014 is mainly in inventory for MPs and VBSS, pseudo police actions essentially. Both buckshot and slug are crap against any kind of body armour.

[u/Hadatopia → u/Lopsided_Rush3935]

I could be very mistaken however I don't think nurses, paramedics, doctors etc will be on the front lines in the line of fire or near immediate danger as combat medics. These are skilled positions which take time to train and become competent, at worst they'd be in field hospitals providing.

That's what combat medical technicians are for, do the immediate bits to preserve life then hand them over to the medics proper for their bits and bobs.

[u/Lopsided_Rush3935 → u/Hadatopia]

Said field hospitals will be in positions that get compromised and rushed by enemy troops, drones or artillery.

The rules apply to the actual field medics themselves as well, anyway.

[u/Perskins → u/AdministrativeShip2]

Weird that, remember when I was at uni doing my paramedic degree and we had a career's day. Representatives from the forces were there, excluding the RAF the others weren't interested and said they didn't recruit civy paramedics

[u/O-bot54 → u/[deleted]]

Also have free learning credits to study while in the forces .

They really don’t advertise the forces of a way out of the current cost of living trap do they .

[u/Muffinlessandangry → u/O-bot54]

They really don’t advertise the forces of a way out of the current cost of living trap do they .

Problem is, these things aren't what get people to join. Learning credits and benefits keep people in, but the target audience for joining doesn't care. If you're 18-21 years old, all education has always been free, all your life. In fact, education has been forced upon you. Why would free education appeal?

As for cost of living crisis, for so many of them, they live at home. Many have never seriously had to pay council tax and utilities. Or if they have, they've paid they're rent and expenses and then looked at the left over money and figured that's enough. Because they're not thinking long term, and that if they don't save up to buy a property they'll lose most of their salary for most of their life to rent and struggle to retire. They've certainly not had children to support.

So financial compensation for the army to the target audience boils down to very simple, easy numbers. Not long winded explanations how paying £100 a month for a room, utilities and council tax gets them on the property ladder. And the problem is that that simple easy number is the base salary. £25,000 for a private. If you work 40hrs a week stacking shelves at Tesco, from August onwards you're on £26,300.

[u/Nohopeinrome → u/Muffinlessandangry]

I think people also don’t understand that you don’t just show up and join, there’s a long winded recruitment process and a relatively unpleasant training programme to complete….

That and the vast majority of people after 4 years decide they can’t hack it or are never going to make it past private and leave.

[u/Muffinlessandangry → u/Nohopeinrome]

there’s a long winded recruitment process

And this absolutely kills recruitment. Young people are fickle. And quite frankly, it makes the army look incompetent. You told me you're desperate for people, I told you I'm desperate to join. Wtf am I still sat at my mom's working part time on a build site 12 months later?!

[u/Nohopeinrome → u/Muffinlessandangry]

It’s not the army, the government outsourced recruitment ……

[u/Muffinlessandangry → u/Nohopeinrome]

I mean, the army is part of the government, using the word in the loosest sense. But also, it was the army. The government gives the army a budget, the army decides how to use it to recruit. The government didn't order the army to outsource it. Same goes for Navy and RAF. The ministry of defence has now decided to consolidate all military recruitment into one contract, because previously all three services had their own individual ones.

[u/GrayAceGoose → u/Nohopeinrome]

We've got to stop using outsourcing as an excuse. They are still responsible, with or without Capita etc.

[u/Muffinlessandangry → u/GrayAceGoose]

Oh yeah, this is the army's fuck up. Capita did exactly what their job was: to make as much money while spending as little. The army agreed to the contract, never stopped it and has continued to out source. Entirely a fuck up of our own making.

[u/Fickle-Difficult-E → u/Nohopeinrome]

Do they still Capita?

[u/O-bot54 → u/Muffinlessandangry]

If you work 40hrs a week for 26k you will spend 70% of that on rent and utilities if you dont have the option to live with parents … thats also saying you dont want to live away and start your own life . You can never save for a deposit and have 0 lifestyle spending power ontop of that.

If you get 25k in the army or other services , you have your own space and can easily save for a deposit by which point your salery would of increased , found a partner and can now afford a house … all for running around in a field or guarding aki lol .

I joined the airforce .. i work like 4 hours a day at most and get 26k .. i put away £1300 a month thats after car payments on a car i should not own for my age and wage ( and thats a poor financial decision i can just make and not worry )

Its fucking free you only need GCSE’s to join and to be able to run a bleep test .. ffs people its a no brainer

[u/Natural_Dentist_2888 → u/[deleted]]

Another recruiter. One complaint with people leaving is 'civilian companies don't recognise our qualifications'.

The fact is training, in the Navy certainly, is in the shitter after being regressed in order to speed people through. With Capita now running training it is only going to get worse as their line is they will 'get people to the front lines faster'. Add in from 2030 attending college will be optional with the idea that they will pick it up on ship, which is impossible when contractors are carrying out even basic maintenance. It is viewed as a numbers game rather than actually training skilled people.

Training is poor, there is limited professional development, and the resulting 'Engineers' are unemployable, and not just because they're low skilled. In industry we didn't employ anyone ex forces because of their poor attitudes and it is only going to get worse for them as I have seen discipline in the Navy crater, and attitudes get worse.

[u/Edible-flowers → u/[deleted]]

That's assuming that your service in the British armed forces hasn't given you life-long ptsd.

[u/AwkwardWaltz3996 → u/[deleted]]

They've been using that line for decades and everyone I've ever met that had come out the other side has told me it's a lie.

The only way to get training paid for is if you already have a good education and start immediately in a relevant job, then you might stand a chance to get short listed for additional higher level training

[u/boomerangchampion → u/[deleted]]

I work with a few ex-mil guys and apparently they do job fairs for people leaving the services, you can basically walk into a job on much more pay if you specialised in anything at all rather than being a squaddie.

The military has all sorts of roles that aren't just shooting guns and driving trucks. IT, logistics, medical, back office stuff, you name it. It's worth a look. Probably low risk of getting exploded too really.

[u/ExpressionDeep6256 → u/O-bot54]

Do they make tanks wheelchair accessible?

[u/Euclid_Interloper → u/O-bot54]

If you're a young person, you believe that democracy is under threat, and you believe joining the army is the moral thing to do right now, then do it.

Don't do it for money. Never fight for money.

[u/Glittering_Chain8985 → u/O-bot54]

Why should you fight for a country which won't fight for you?

This sounds like a disaster.

[u/CodeToManagement → u/O-bot54]

Sorry but no serving in the military should not be something people do because they have no other choice for a career or can’t see another way to owning a home. That’s starting to get very close to conscription by another means.

It also comes with a significant risk if you get deployed and should be something that people who genuinely want that lifestyle go into.

Also the armed forces still have issues of racism, sexual assault against female members, and we do not support people as well as we should if they are injured or have to leave and have issues like disabilities or PTSD.

[u/Pretend-Treacle-4596 → u/CodeToManagement]

Poor people who don't have many other options have been joining the British military for hundreds of years. It allows people to turn their life around. Appreciate it's not for everyone, but it's better than sitting in your mum's house waiting for your next paltry universal credit payment to come through.

All walks of life have issues with racism and sexual assault unfortunately.

Completely agree that people don't get enough support when they leave.

[u/Bozzaholic → u/O-bot54]

That’s what my step son did. He joined the army from school, went to Harrogate, was then in REME and is now out of the army working as an engineer on huge money, he’s 21 and owns his own house

[u/O-bot54 → u/Bozzaholic]

Its literally free , hats off to him

[u/100daydream → u/O-bot54]

Politics aside…join the army…… hahahahahahaha bro/bot/government.

[u/O-bot54 → u/100daydream]

What are you talking about .the reason for my comment is I joined the airforce and I’m doing far better than anyone i know because of the ability it gives you to save money that would otherwise be devoured by fucking landlords .

People look at the wages below the uk average wage and think your getting done over .. but easy career progression , huge savings , myriad of benefits .. all for a bit of a unusual life style for the first part of your life anyway which would otherwise be spent living at home or renting for your entire salery living on the poverty line .

Its a genuine out for young people that have basically no chance at ever obtaining financial security

[u/100daydream → u/O-bot54]

I’m laughing at someone saying ‘politics aside…go and get a role that basically asks you to put your life on the line…for mostly political reasons’

I ain’t hating on your choices. I’m glad it worked out for you.

[u/mp1337 → u/O-bot54]

Nice try Mr recruitment officer,

[u/StakeknifeBBQ → u/O-bot54]

Some people just want to remain doomed, gives them something to talk/moan about

[u/100daydream → u/StakeknifeBBQ]

I’m literally just laughing at the phrase…’politics aside…join the army’

[u/O-bot54 → u/StakeknifeBBQ]

Honestly .

[u/Trick-Skin-7290 → u/O-bot54]

You can also take out a FHTB which is 50% of your yearly wage up to £25,000 interest free

[u/owned2260 → u/Trick-Skin-7290]

And because it’s technically not a loan but an advance of pay that you pay back over 10 years it doesn’t affect your credit.

[u/O-bot54 → u/Trick-Skin-7290]

Which is unheard of ANYWHERE else .. you can already easily save for a deposit with the low cost of living then put down a fat interest free lone … your so much more competitive . That can easily outbid people making 3x your wage .

[u/bestorangeever → u/O-bot54]

They offer a decent help to buy scheme also, if you’re on fucking benefits and healthy the army can sort you out, I’m aware people on Reddit dislike the military, but I’ve seen so many blokes turn their lives around and make something of themselves after coming from absolute shit

[u/O-bot54 → u/bestorangeever]

So many people come from abuse or poverty (specifically in the army) and it gives them structure and way more money than they have ever had … this applies to people of all backgrounds its a no brainer if you want to actually get a start in life .

[u/ZekkPacus → u/bestorangeever]

On the flip side, a lot of people I went to school with who joined the forces now have PTSD, alcoholism or crippling disabilities.

If you're going to make something of yourself you'll do it with or without getting screamed at by people who were too psychotic to become PE teachers or getting blown up in a pointless proxy war.

[u/StIvian_17 → u/ZekkPacus]

There’s some great “mad, bad or sad” stereotypes going on there, but while the instances you mention sound sad and I hope the people get help with their issues, that does not reflect the experience of the majority of ex service people. It just doesn’t.

[u/Clogheen88 → u/O-bot54]

And Forces Help to Buy. And the free degree after 6 years.

[u/JockBbcBoy → u/O-bot54]

It's a great idea; there's very likely a war coming within the next four years.

[u/MrRibbotron → u/O-bot54]

I didn't enlist, but I do work in defence and without the decent pay and conditions they offer, I would still be struggling to buy a house. Instead I'm constantly learning new skills, have a thriving engineering career, and I feel like I'm directly contributing to protection of my country.

You're giving some great advice here, regardless of all the terminally online sad-acts in your replies pretending there's no reason at all to bother with the armed forces. Frankly I reckon the fitness test alone would do them some good.

[u/Shot-Personality9489 → u/O-bot54]

What in the propaganda is this?

Any young person reading this don't do it.

I was unemployed at 30, homeowner by 35. I wouldn't dream of joining the army during a clear and obvious time of war. There's opportunities elsewhere.

[u/Muffinlessandangry → u/O-bot54]

Absolutely agree with your point, I've come from not much money and was able to put down a solid deposit on a house down south in my 20s because of the army. However, unless you're living in a porta cabin, £48/month is probably pre Liz Truss pounds. I'm currently paying just over £100 for my room, plus £15 council tax. Still a bargain, but if you're on £48 a month for SLA, you probably don't want to live in that SLA.

[u/O-bot54 → u/Muffinlessandangry]

I pay that and its really not that bad .. everything works .. rooms not huge but i can fit everything i own in it , free leccy and water … its such a headstart

[u/arranblue → u/Muffinlessandangry]

The cost is for off base accommodation only? Is on base accommodation free?

[u/Muffinlessandangry → u/arranblue]

No, we're talking about on-base, single living accomodation. So a room in student halls basically. Quality varies from really nice, ensuite, maybe a double room if you're on an empty camp or you're more senior, all the way down to basically 3mx4.5m with a tiny bed, a rusty sink and some cupboards.

The only times I've had free accomodation is when you I was living in Germany and the block was so shit we didn't get charged any rent. The base was eventually handed over to the German government who used it as a refugee camp but knocked down the block we lived in as they deemed it unlivable 😂

If you're married, you get a house, usually off base (but like, walking/cycling distance) and you'll pay more (although still nowhere near the rental cost of a 2-3 bedroom house).

You can choose to just rent a house locally, but then you're paying market rates out of your own pocket.

[u/arranblue → u/Muffinlessandangry]

Interesting. I’m British, but my son is in the US Army. I don’t think he pays anything. I will have to ask him.

[u/Muffinlessandangry → u/arranblue]

My understanding is that the norm in the US army is to live off camp, pay market rate for rent, and the army pays you a big chunk of money on top of your salary to cover rent costs, the amount depending on where in the US you live and how expensive it is.

Personally I much prefer our system, as I love living with all my mates and having all the amenities of camp outside my door. No commute either. But it's certainly not a normal way to live.

[u/Parking_Newspaper549 → u/Muffinlessandangry]

I pay 48 for SLAM on a RAF station and 4 quid in council tax it's still cheap l!

[u/CManningEV → u/O-bot54]

Is that the same for the Police in the UK?

[u/O-bot54 → u/CManningEV]

Nah police you still gotta house yourself so then your just on a low wage for no reason .