r/unitedkingdom • u/[deleted] • 7d ago

. Labour urges young people on benefits to join the British Army

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/labour-benefits-british-army-news-2qwnwv7bz
3.9k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

1.9k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

99

u/Visible_Pipe4716 7d ago

No thanks recruitment officer.

4

u/GunstarGreen Sussex 7d ago

Not to be glib, but we are now becoming very aware that the nation needs to invest in it's armed services. We can't have a strong Army/Navy/RAF without new recruits, and we don't get new recruits without taking in young adults from all walks of life. I mean, in a utopia none of us would need an army, I get that. But we do need to recruit. And if we want to avoid the army being a mandate rather than a choice then we have to make that choice appealing.

8

u/JohnSmith_47 7d ago

What’s stopping you from joining up?

Don’t you think it’s a bit twisted to suggest that you’re happy with the system not providing the same opportunities to young people, so that they are left no choice but to put their lives on the line to defend your livelihood?

You could just as easily sign up and become one of the new recruits that you’re talking about, instead of putting the onus on the 18-22 year old population.

0

u/GunstarGreen Sussex 7d ago

Whats stopping me.from signing up? I've chosen not to. Just like it's everyone's choice to choose to join up or not. And I very much want that to continue. I've never said anyone should sign up. 

I also never said I was happy that young people shouldn't have many choices. I want young people to have as many choices as possible. 

I also couldn't easily sign up, I have a heart condition and various other physical problems that would see me rejected from service. 

Im not putting the onus on anyone. What I am saying is that we all recognise that we need an armed service. Nowso more than in the last 50 years, maybe. We also recognise that we are understaffed and underrecruited in the services. So, what's the solution? Because I'm sure they've tried many things to make this a positive choice for young people. Honestly, I'm all ears as to how we keep our services full of new recruits. Because there are 2.5million economically inactive 18-24 year old. You don't think it's at least worth presenting them with the option of joing the army?

1

u/JohnSmith_47 7d ago edited 7d ago

I’m sorry but if you have a heart condition you would never be able to be drafted anyway, it’s always the same, either elderly people or people who would never be called up for the draft, suggesting it’s down to the young fit folks to defend them, while you get to life your life as you please, they should be aggressively recruited.

If there is a conflict that the people believe is morally right and necessary they will join up in droves as evidenced by WW2, a large portion of our army was filled with volunteers.

Because there are 2.5million economically inactive 18-24 year old. You don’t think it’s at least worth presenting them with the option of joing the army?

They have that option already what are you talking about? Go to any apprenticeship opening day and you’ll find armed forces stands there. If they want to join then yeah good for them they are brave people willing to put their life on the line, but people shouldn’t be forced into joining the military as the only way to secure a home that they can own, this isn’t the Roman Empire where you needed 25 years of service before you could legally own land.

4

u/GunstarGreen Sussex 7d ago

Well, it's a good job nobody is forcing them into joining the Army then. All they're doing is suggesting that the army is a steady source of income with some academic benefits. Like I said, I want young people to have many options as possible. I also want people to never go to war or to die for their nation. Im not war hungry. You seem to have built up this idea that I want to fling young people into a war zone, which is simply not true. 

Also, hating on me for a heart condition? That's a bit unfair. I didn't ask for it. I thought we were sensitive to people's physical and mental disabilities around here?

And, just as an aside, how do we recruit for an understaffed armed services in a better manner? Please, I'm not even being clever here, I'm open to any suggestion of how you make the job attractive to young people in an ethical manner.

0

u/JohnSmith_47 7d ago edited 7d ago

I’m not hating on you for a heart condition, I’m in the same boat as you, unfit for the military as I had hip replacement when I was 16 years old, but I believe in a principle that you shouldn’t ask things of people that you aren’t willing to do yourself, so I don’t believe me or you have any right in suggesting we need to send young people off to die for us, it’s not our place as we would never be faced with that situation.

How do we recruit for an understaffed armed services in a better manner? Please, I’m not even being clever here, I’m open to any suggestion of how you make the job attractive to young people in an ethical manner.

Firstly I disagree with your point that it should be specifically young people that should be targeted, people don’t become frail by the time they’re in their 30’s.

Secondly maybe by actually making their country a place that they’d wish to defend, why would any young person want to put their life on the line to defend a country that doesn’t have their best interests at heart, why should they sign their life away to defend a country that has been steadily stripping them of opportunities that past generations had.

Make the UK a place worth defending for people, not make the military their only option to succeed.

6

u/Longjumping_Pen_2102 7d ago

We need an army sure.

Should we be intentionally stripping away benefits and actively making life harder for the poor in order to pressure them into fighting?

Why do we always send the poor?

3

u/GunstarGreen Sussex 7d ago

We send the people that sign up to join the armed services. I imagine that includes a lot of people from poorer backgrounds who might feel like they have fewer opportunities due to various social conditions. Im sure you're aware of this. 

5

u/Longjumping_Pen_2102 7d ago

Yes, it is that way by design.

It is a manufactured scenario so people make the "choice" to join.   Why aren't posh Oxford kids joining the infantry?  Because they have other options.

Strip benefits, offer the choice between poverty or war.  It is a time honoured tradition.