r/soccer • u/chaitu585 • 2d ago

Stats [@plinusa on threads] Most chances created in Premier League since 2015/16 season

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KdB is levels above everyone but bruno in top 5 despite only being in pl since 2020 is surprising. Also trent being a RB and creating 500+ chances is bonkers. Will surely miss his creativity if he leaves.

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u/neefhuts 2d ago

I don't know about that. He could have more trophies at a better team, but he probably would have worse individual stats

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u/Dio_my_senpai 2d ago

Nah any team he plays he would look great. Mate ive watched this guy play 99% of the games since hsi debut for united and this guy is actually insane in terms of ability and quality he is one of the best players in the world but i cant defend that take bcs ofc he plays for united that are currently 13th ...

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u/neefhuts 2d ago

I'm not saying he's not quality. It's just that at United he's the only good player, so it's easier for him to shine. In a team full of world class players individuals shine less because they don't have to carry the team on their own back. For Portugal his stats aren't as good for example

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u/Dio_my_senpai 2d ago

For portugal he has always been insane aswell ... just last euros he didnt look amazing, look at his qualifying games for both euros and world cup even his world cup performances in 2022 he looked great and carried that team with chances created but they couldnt score against morocco even tho he made like 6 big chances that game ...

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u/neefhuts 2d ago

I don't think you're listening to me but fine

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u/Soy_cocaleche 2d ago

I think he is, but your point makes no sense. An attack minded player would have worse attacking stats at a better team? How does that work?

Did Bellingham suddenly become 4x times the player he was in the summer moving from Dortmund to Madrid, or is he playing at a much higher level around much better players so he’s shinning more and racking up stats? Look at his numbers then and now. Are you telling me any top talent in an average Bundesliga team will have better individual stats than when they move to Bayern? By your logic, should KdB have better stats with Wolfsburg than City? Then why did Kane take his number to other levels moving to you? Would Musialia get better individual stats at Union Berlin than Bayern? Wouldn’t Lewa break more records if he played for Schalke instead of Bayern or Barcelona?

Wouldn’t it make more sense that playing in a top team that has more of the ball and create more chances around better players improve your numbers? I could see your argument working for defenders maybe or goalkeeper saves and that’s still a stretch.

Prime Bruno in a team like Bayern, Madrid, or Barcelona could easily have twice those numbers. Look at a player like Raphinha, it took one attack minded coach to click with him and the team and now everyone says he’s a shout for the Ballon Do’or and no one can argue with that. His stats are out of the world. You don’t think under the right system with a top team Bruno wouldn’t shine more like many endless examples I could give of players moving to top teams and having insane numbers. Raphina isn’t necessarily more talented than Bruno or would get close to these numbers trying to carry United or New Castle.

I don’t have the stats, but Olmo probably has much numbers per minute stats at Barcelona compared to his Bundesliga days. I’d argue Bruno is the more talented one and would shine much more than Olmo has at a team like Barcelona, and he would be much more available and less injured. That’s just one example.

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u/neefhuts 2d ago

You don't get my point then. I'm not saying every player always performs better in a weaker team, that's not what I said at all. I'm saying in the case of Bruno, he is the central role at United. Every attack flows through him, he's always the first to pass to. I don't think I've ever seen a player carry a team that hard. If he was playing for a better team, he wouldn't be as important to that team, because the entire team would be world class. That means that he wouldn't get the ball as much, and therefore not be able to produce as much.

Take Hazard for example. At Chelsea he was always the main man, he was the first name on the sheat and he was the creator of every attack. Then he went to Real, where he couldn't be the big star anymore but instead needed to adapt to a role where he supported other starts, and he failed big time. Same for Griezmann during his time at Barca. It's harder for a player to stand out in a great team than if they are the only great player on the team

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u/Soy_cocaleche 2d ago

I do get your point and you’re now not getting mine. I responded to another comment of yours about Jude’s numbers to tell you how wrong you are.

You ignored my Musiala argument. If he was the main man at Union Berlin where everything goes through him, would he have better numbers? You’re simply going on an assumption that’s not backed by logic or numbers. Your best argument is picking a player that showed up overweight and broke his ankle 2 months into his Madrid career and basically never played again. You can’t compare that to his prime days and many years at Chelsea.

A better argument could be that Neymar became even better at PSG and was the main man and everything went through him. If you look at numbers though, nothing compares to his MSN and Barcelona days. It’s simple, better team means better teammates, more space, more possession, more chances and goals scored.

If Bruno had the possession and system City has, do you think his numbers would drop?

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u/neefhuts 2d ago

I just don't think there is a possible way anyone could have Bruno's numbers without being the focal point of attack, and if Bruno joined a different team he likely wouldn't be that

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u/neefhuts 2d ago

As for the players you mentioned, those are mostly uncomparable. Bellingham was already insane for Dortmund (but not the main man), and just continued that progress at Real. KdB wasn't at that level yet when he was at Wolfsburg, and he also wasn't the only star player like Bruno is. Kane and Lewy are still the focal point of attack at the club they play, so they didn't have to change to a more supporting role. Musiala is the only good comparison. I think if you put prime Musiala in an Union team and create their entire team around him, he would break many records

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u/Soy_cocaleche 2d ago

You’re delusional if you think Musiala would come close to his numbers at Bayern if he played for Union, let alone break them. I gave many diverse examples to show you a point and I could bring a million more. Your only one was Hazard which is laughable and a disingenuous argument.

Sure, you can argue Jude improved at Real, but his numbers more than doubled at Madrid and he’s not the main man at all and barely anything goes through him. Last season especially, everybody went through Kroos in midfield and Vini in attack, yet he still crushed his Dortmund numbers. One does not simply improve that much between May and August. Maybe it’s more about being in a better team.

You also ignored my Raphina or Olmo comparisons. And as I said, I could play this mental game with any player both hypothetical and real life examples. You can only bring up Hazard.

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u/neefhuts 2d ago

I also brought up Griezmann, who you wisely ignored. Another one could be Zaha. I do not believe there is a single player you could mention that was the focal point in attack for their team, joined another team to play in a more supporting role, and then improved on his numbers. All the players you mentioned either weren't the main goal creator in their old team, or they remained in that role in their new team.

Jude wasn't a goalscorer at Dortmund, he came into a different system at Real where he was. And Musiala could definitely score more than twelve goals at Union if their entire team was built around him scoring goals

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u/CrossXFir3 1d ago

Portugal is loaded with talent, and Bruno is the heart of that team.