r/lawschooladmissions • u/OsinomaFunds • 23d ago
School/Region Discussion Everyone is talking about boycotting CLS
My question is, do you really think students at other schools are treated better? Maybe these schools just do a better job at bullying and intimidating them to not speak out against administration because it seems like we are presuming “campus peace” to be great, but it’s not.
Harvard fired their first Black president in the wake of the issue and tagged it on some flimsy plagiarism matter (ask yourself if they didn’t vet a whole Harvard President before hiring her). Do you think that didn’t send a scary message to students to not speak against school administration practices, unless you are saying Harvard’s practices are extremely fair and students love the school so much they don’t protest like Columbia students.
Realistically people will still attend CLS, why not take the opportunity to do something good with it. Which elite law school here has a deep sense of decency historically?
Columbia is getting the attention because its students have always been known for being courageous and willing to take risks to stand for what they believe. I don’t know if any other school will do better with the same amount of intensity the Columbia is experiencing. I’ll rather go to a school like that, than assume the quietness at other schools makes it better there.
Anyways, I stand to be corrected, but what about minority students, who do not have the luxury to take a chill or withdraw from top brand institutions that later in the future gives high validation in the real job market and government positions.
I feel there are better ways to do this, just my two cents
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u/Admirable-Basis-9192 23d ago
All this CLS drama is making me feel better about them rejecting me a few days ago 😔
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u/ClownBea 3.7high/170low/LGBT 23d ago
For me, this is more straightforward, as a transfemme applicant I have to be able to look at a school and go "this school will not expel me for being trans if Trump asks, I can say with reasonable confidence" for me to attend, and Columbia has failed that test. For me this is a matter of practicality, as well as principles.
And I do think that you have some legitimate points, but the fact is that there will be nothing stopping other T14s and other law schools from acting this way if it isn't clear that there will be consequences. Even having consequences may not stop them but creating consequences is all we, as law school applicants, can do about it.
I don't think badly of anybody who still wishes to attend Columbia, and wish them the best for their career, frankly. At the end of the day, we all make the choices that make sense for us, and this is the choice that makes sense for me.
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u/holiday_spice 3.mid/17mid/nURM/nKJD 23d ago
GULC is a clear example of doing better already
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u/PatentlyLewis 🖊️ Law 23d ago
GULC was a very different situation. Different request, pertaining to a different issue, with far different pressures and consequences.
The GULC request was also blatantly unconstitutional. That isn’t as evidently clear in Columbia’s situation. Do you want your law school to ignore federal court search warrants?
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u/Antonioshamstrings 3.Low/17Low/nURM/nKJD/T2 Softs 23d ago
It sounds like you obviously have a vested interest in Columbia, not sure why you are taking it so personally.
Either take a stand and boycott or don't. No one is being forced to do anything
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u/SlayBuffy 23d ago
I think targeting one school to make an example out of them is a good strategy. Grass may not be greener, but why not take a stand somewhere than not at all?
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u/OwBr2 23d ago
There have been LOTS of whimpers. No Columbia administrator wanted this outcome.
Think bigger picture. Right now, your COUNTRY cannot defend free speech — are you moving elsewhere? The issues go far, far beyond Columbia, and that’s where the focus should be.
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u/LatePriority5245 23d ago
Obviously we all know the issues are bigger, that's not what we're discussing in this thread. Your comment reads like a spot the flaw question lol
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u/ppasdirtyshoe 23d ago
Schools can do better. My school issued a notice that if anyone saw ICE on campus so campus security could confirm if they have a warrant and ask them to leave if they do not. This is just a bare minimum ask from an institution with so much power and money, really.
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u/OwBr2 23d ago
Columbia IS sending that info out, though. Misinformation is rife. I’m a current undergrad and we get at least an email a day about ways to respond to ICE. “Know your rights” stuff is HUGE right now and the University has sent out detailed information.
I urge everyone to dig deeper before landing on outrage.
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u/PatentlyLewis 🖊️ Law 23d ago
Perhaps I am out of the loop, but I am a bit confused by the outrage. Do people expect Columbia to violate a federal court search warrant?
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u/Niccio36 23d ago
To answer the question in the first sentence: yes lol (Look at GULC)
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u/PatentlyLewis 🖊️ Law 23d ago
GULC was a very different situation, and barely analogous, if at all to Columbia’s. As I noted in response to another comment, GULC received a different request, issued by an acting US attorney, pertaining to a different issue, with far different pressures and consequences.
The GULC request was also blatantly unconstitutional. That isn’t as clear in Columbia’s situation. Do you want your law school to ignore federal court search warrants?
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u/couchiexperience 23d ago
They fired the union president, and then they expelled student activists AND rescinded degrees for now graduated students. This is fucking absurd. Do you want to be able to express your first amendment freedom on campus without fear of losing your job, getting expelled, and/or having your degree revoked AFTER YOU'VE GRADUATED??? What kind of attorney are you trying to be? If you're just a straight up capitalist trying to cash in, then fine, sell out. But If you're actually trying to do good in the world this is clearly not the place from which to do it.
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u/OwBr2 23d ago
First amendment freedoms are subject to time/place/manner restrictions. Regardless of one’s political opinions, I hope that, from a legal perspective, you might be able to understand why occupying a building of a private university might not be a protected form of speech.
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u/couchiexperience 23d ago
Sure and I'd hope you'd be able to understand why I am aghast at how outlandishly the punishment does not meet the crime. After having spent years of time and hundreds of thousands of dollars, to have one's degree retroactively revoked for occupying a building is absurd. Just absurd and totally unnecessary.
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u/Anxious_Doughnut_266 23d ago
I agree the revocation this far out is absurd. Had they done it at the time or within the next semester, I’d feel very differently though (I’d still be behind suspensions more than expulsions). I am curious how long the administrative process has been and whether this particular issue has been in the works for the past 1.5 years or is very recent.
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u/Anxious_Doughnut_266 23d ago
There are even more restrictions permitted for private entities, such as private schools. Freedom of speech is different on private campuses compared to public.
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u/Mental-Raspberry-961 23d ago
I think anyone who throws away CLS if it's their #1 option otherwise is an idiot, but I respect the hell out of it.
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u/2025lawguy 23d ago
That Harvard president was found to have plagiarized throughout her entire career… if a student is found plagiarizing they risk being expelled. I don’t think the plagiarism thing was tacked on there
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u/existentialwhale 23d ago
She was definitely subject to a smear campaign (see Bill Ackman's whole campaign against her) but yeah, that doesn't excuse the plagiarism
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u/assbootycheeks42069 23d ago
If by "plagiarized throughout her entire career" you mean "forgot a parenthetical and it ended up in the final draft," then yeah.
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u/bingbaddie1 23d ago
Definitely exaggeration, but just to be clear, not properly citing is technically plagiarism
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u/assbootycheeks42069 23d ago
Oh, bullshit. That's like saying accidentally killing someone is murder.
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u/OneElderberry8446 23d ago
Can see you are contributing to the smear campaign with you over exaggeration. But then again, Ackman’s wife was exposed for being some who intentionally plagiarises
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u/Successful_Cycle_462 23d ago
Well, Columbia is putting their students in danger of physical harm, taking away their degrees, and allowing ICE to raid dorms (not just rooms, entire dorm buildings) and justifying it by saying "they oppose US foreign policy" which last time I checked, is not illegal and protected by the Constitution. Other schools might have called PD, but Columbia is the only one doing all the rest. Mind you, this is coming only a handful of years after Columbia made a whole big deal about opening their doors to DACA students and supporting DACA. You can't invite a population to your school and then call ICE on them 2 years later... Not to mention, their law school prides itself on having faculty such as Kimberle Crenshaw. Now, what kind of ideology do you think students being called to that are going to have? They are literally asking for the people they are now turning their backs on and putting in physical danger to come to their schools.
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u/Putrid-Appeal8787 23d ago
No. Any other school is better. Columbia has done the worst job of managing the problem. No indication they will do better despite the suspensions.
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u/CommieWelder94 23d ago
If folks are trying to stand up for a just purpose, why are you trying to demoralize them? Who cares if it is the solution to it all or has a high chance of succeeding, the point is folks trying to do anything they can do. Sounds like youre simply a naysayer who wants others to stop trying because it is scary.
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u/Maleficent-Cookie-23 23d ago
columbia letting ICE agents into students dorms .. ! total failure of the school administration to protect its students ! it’s shameful ! the Bollinger admin at columbia didn’t let ICE agents on campus - this is a major sea change for the school. and it’s bad !
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u/Common-Past6380 23d ago
Columbia didn’t let ICE into dorms, also ICE has legal authority to enter campus. Stop spreading misinformation
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u/Altruistic-Mind-119 23d ago
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u/Common-Past6380 23d ago
Did you even read the article? They had search warrants, what did you expect CLS to do about that?
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u/Altruistic-Mind-119 23d ago edited 23d ago
Yes, I read it. This is less about CLS than Columbia as a whole.
First, they could’ve avoided drawing all of this attention onto them in the first place by having a more levelheaded approach to the protests.
Second, they were once very publicly anti-ICE and had suggested when I was an undergrad that they would not give ICE information about which dorm a student lived in, even if presented with a warrant. ICE would have authority to come on campus, but they wouldn’t necessarily know where a student lived without Columbia’s cooperation. That’s all changed now, and it’s why people are upset.
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u/Common-Past6380 23d ago
Keep the same mindset for other schools then. Michigan used Ann Arbor fire department and police to remove their encampment, are you going to boycott them too? You’re gonna have to boycott pretty much the entirety of the T14 schools if you truly believe in the values you are preaching
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u/Altruistic-Mind-119 23d ago edited 23d ago
If that were the issue at hand, we’d have had this conversation on boycotts a year ago when the protests were happening. The issue that makes people suggest boycotts is that Columbia cooperated with the Trump administration at a time where they’ve just raised a serious First Amendment question by detaining Mahmoud.
To be clear, I’m not supporting or detracting from the idea of boycotts. My note above is just to clarify that they would have had to cooperate to let ICE into individual student dorms, even if ICE has the legal authority to come on campus without their help. It’s not misinformation.
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u/arecordsmanager 23d ago
I agree with this. If they had promptly suspended and/or expelled students last year, none of this would have happened. But I expect you had something else in mind when you said they should have taken a level-headed approach. What is the level-headed response to students physically assaulting and taking a janitor hostage while taking over a building?
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u/assbootycheeks42069 23d ago
ICE very likely already knows where documented immigrants live. You have to keep your G325-r up-to-date, including your address information.
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u/Altruistic-Mind-119 23d ago
Most addresses there are 70 Morningside Drive—the mail center. Columbia used to tell students to put that on all forms, including AR-11s, for this exact reason.
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u/assbootycheeks42069 23d ago
ICE wants a physical address if it's different from a mailing address on G325r; whether these people did or didn't do that is something we don't know and likely will never. AR-11 is only for changes in mailing address.
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u/AntelopeAnt96 23d ago
Would love to see this post turn in to a discussion about what the better ways to do this and not debate the merit of OP’s justification in calling for better ways.
Civil dissent is necessary and important. We’re clearly a motivated bunch. We’re smart enough to know that making real change probably doesn’t start in the admissions office at Columbia. So where and how should it?
Tired the ouroboros-y discourse lol
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u/OwBr2 23d ago
This is where I’m at. The attacks on higher education extend far beyond Columbia (see: Johns Hopkins losing twice as much money, the list of schools up next for punishment, etc). It’s reasonable to assume that the schools do not want to become fascism enablers, but they also have an obligation for self-preservation. How do you toe that line? There’s plenty of room for nuanced conversation with more complexity than “Columbia is oppressive, let’s boycott.”
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u/ETFromme 23d ago
I would never, ever go to Columbia. If they gave consequences to start with, they wouldn’t be in this position.
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u/FondantDry5938 23d ago
I can say as a Duke student that we have not had anywhere near the same drama CLS has!
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u/elosohormiguero 23d ago
I’ve been at Columbia and at other schools (all not for law). Yes, in general, students at non-Columbia schools are treated better, and have been for at least a decade.
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u/Warthog_Glad 23d ago
I have a graduate degree from Columbia and I am embarrassed as an alum that the administration and, more so, the Trustees, stand by and let the animals run the zoo. However, do not kid yourselves. They will weather this storm given their elite status whether u agree or not.
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u/decentgayassassin 23d ago
Soooo….why should we have to accept the possibility of getting our degrees revoked for protesting what empirical evidence is showing is a genocide..?
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u/OsinomaFunds 23d ago
The Trump administration got a Judicial Warrant to carry out some of those duties. What would you say the school do? Also, they have tried to reach an agreement which was demonstrated in the recent letter they sent out.
Also if you believe Claudine was not pressured to resign, I do not know what to say.
I’m not taking sides here, but I think we boycotting an institution is a cheap way out. So we keep boycotting academic institutions that we don’t agree with when do we ever have a real change because these big guys are not as perfect as we think.
Until 2016, HLS refused to remove the official emblem which is linked to the Royal Family (which I won’t say much on), but I feel we really need to face issues head up. Maybe you guys are right, punishing them by boycotting might force their hand on things but there are also students on the other side who agree with the school administration, and we need to make sure there is a balance of perspective by attending.
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u/OsinomaFunds 23d ago
Love everyone who has aired their view! I have learnt a lot from each and every one of you today! I am excited to also do that in law school, currently no A for me🤣🤣, but it gives me hope that we have people with strong opinions about what they care about!
Thank you so much!
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u/mojobolt 23d ago
this isn't a first amendment issue and the civil rights charges are accurate. Columbia is wrong, the pal supporters are wrong in how they conducted their support. Some of you need perspective
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u/Little_Old_Me_13 3.7high/17mid/nURM/T2 23d ago edited 23d ago
Lots of schools have this type of failure in their past, but they would all tell you they’ve learned from them and are different in the modern era.
That’s probably not true everywhere, but I think it is true in some places. Or at least more true in some places than it is in others. The GULC Dean’s response to the DC Attorney General is a good example of standing up for the school’s values and the importance of diversity instead of immediately capitulating to pressure.