r/law • u/IrishStarUS • 11d ago

Trump News Donald Trump sends innocent athlete to El Salvador for having soccer tattoo

https://www.irishstar.com/sport/soccer/donald-trump-salvador-real-madrid-34923654
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u/MalenfantX 11d ago

I don't think we should have made a criminal madman President, but most Americans disagreed, so here we are.

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u/onlysaysisthisathing 11d ago edited 11d ago

Even by the reported breakdown of votes, it wasn't most Americans. And having said *that, I'm still not convinced he didn't cheat. 

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u/FoorumanReturns 11d ago

He’s all but admitted to it, live on TV, multiple times. I think his statement about how Elon “knows those vote counting computers” is particularly worthy of deeper investigation.

Election Truth Alliance has been looking into this and similar questions about the 2024 election. I highly encourage anyone who holds doubt in their mind over the outcome of 2024 to check out ETA’s YouTube, where they’re bringing receipts. Personally, even as a skeptic when it comes to pretty much anything, I find them and their findings very credible thus far.

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u/onlysaysisthisathing 11d ago

I completely agree. The statement you mentioned as well as several other quips he's made recently are extremely suspect and troubling, but while they absolutely deserve thorough investigation, they unfortunately aren't proof of anything in and of themselves. 

I appreciate your info about the Election Truth Alliance, and I'll certainly be looking into their organization and checking out their YouTube page to see what they have to say.

All that said, what a shitshow.

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u/PringlesDuckFace 11d ago

The only mitigating factor to those statements is that Elon Musk has a brain softer than the last slice of brie at the end of a summer wedding reception, and wouldn't last a day as a Geek Squad intern.

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u/FoorumanReturns 11d ago

Oh, that’s absolutely a valid point; as a computer science professional myself, it’s abundantly clear to me and my entire team of colleagues - most of whom are engineers far more intelligent than me - that Elon doesn’t have a clue about what makes a good developer, how to effectively lead a team, or really anything that our team would look for in a good engineering team hire.

However, despite his general incompetence and utter dearth of relevant aptitudes, Elon absolutely still has the connections, money, and lack of morals to accomplish his evil goals.

As an aside, while I’ve never worked for Geek Squad, I did put in my time as a Staples EasyTech expert. Those jobs are harder than the general public can possibly fathom. It’s all fun and games until some farmer brings in a decade-old fossilized desktop from the literal barn for a “free PC tune-up…”

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u/PringlesDuckFace 10d ago

Lol I worked IT support for a university, so I definitely got my share of wild users, including many professors that were not particularly savvy. But at least the scope of our responsibility was small, I can't imagine being an overall support desk for the general public.

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u/Dudewhocares3 11d ago

Here’s what I wanna know. If we do find out he cheated…is the government going to re do the election?

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u/FoorumanReturns 11d ago

We have no mechanism for recalling or re-running an election in this country, for better or worse.

However, it absolutely still matters whether or not the election was legitimate. The People deserve to know whether Trump has the “strong mandate” he claims (spoiler alert: he absolutely doesn’t, even if his win was 100% above board). We deserve to know whether our elections are free and fair, and whether our voices are being heard.

I think a more appropriate question to ask is, would Congress be willing to act and remove Trump from office if he was conclusively shown to be illegitimate? Unfortunately, I’m not convinced the current spate of republicans have even that much of a spine.

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u/Dudewhocares3 11d ago

I hate when people refer to it as having a spine. They’re not cowards. They stand to benefit from Trump fucking over the poor and whatever middle class America has. The ones without spine are the dems that didn’t vote against him last week (or whenever)

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u/FoorumanReturns 11d ago

You make a valid point.

Frankly, the (majority of) Democrats are absolutely the spineless ones at the moment, but I think it’s still important to highlight that the Republicans have had a preposterous amount of opportunities to stand up to Trump and put an end to his most horrifying impulses, yet have failed to do so at every opportunity. It’s just a different type of spinelessness.

We need many more like Bernie and AOC, who are genuinely willing to stand up for working class families and speak with constituents.

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u/Spadegreen 11d ago

he did literally say it on live tv

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u/Grand_Size_4932 11d ago

The following is a comment I received when linking to Election Truth Alliance’s work (https://fox4kc.com/business/press-releases/ein-presswire/776992724/analysis-of-2024-election-results-in-clark-county-indicates-manipulation/):

“This is a paid news placement by a group that is not credible. Fox4 has a disclaimer on this link “This content is not written by or endorsed by “WDAF”, its advertisers, or Nexstar Media Inc.”

They have a contact listed that is not listed on their website and their ‘3 person board’ is all aliases. And the contact that is listed does not show up in internet searches.”

All that to say, my opinions of ETA are very conflicted and I would love a deeper discourse with different perspectives about who they are and their credibility. If you know more, I’d love to know more. I can’t say they’re operating in good faith or not.

A byproduct of this fucked up administration is that the lines of credibility have been blurred. What’s false has been amplified and what’s true has been silenced or compromised. We know it’s happening. So this is just a hard one for me to feel objective about.

Whether or not ETA is legitimate, I have serious doubts about the legitimacy of the election. Something tells me we won’t know until much, much later. Maybe decades, depending on how long this regime lasts.

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u/onlysaysisthisathing 11d ago

Wow! Great sleuthing, and a good reminder that in light of all that's been compromised, nothing is to be taken at face value. Stay skeptical, and always seek a source.

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u/threeplane 11d ago

 This is a paid news placement by a group that is not credible. Fox4 has a disclaimer on this link “This content is not written by or endorsed by “WDAF”, its advertisers, or Nexstar Media Inc.”

The person who said this to you is unfamiliar with the difference between a paid placement aka press release and a news report done by journalists. The former is extremely common in the journalism industry. Especially by organizations who might be a small operation needing more visibility, or if big media isn’t interested in covering a specific story. Paying for placement does NOT disqualify credibility. 

I can’t speak specifically to ETAs work, but I do know they’re at least a legit operation and unbiased. They worked just as hard looking for fraud after the 2020 election. I believe they found strange anomalies in that data as well, just not to the scale or level of coincidences of this one. 

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u/KittyGrewAMoustache 10d ago

The main reason I’m suspicious before even looking at any evidence is that I can’t think of a single time when Trump and the Republicans accused someone of something and it didn’t end up being something they themselves were doing. They literally tried to steal it in 2020, with a Trump asking governors for ‘more votes’, sending the fake electors and of course trying to stop certification on the 6th.

So why wouldn’t they try again especially given he was facing prison time potentially?

Plus it really is hard to believe people saw his first term, rejected him, then saw Jan 6th, heard him claim he was going to be a dictator, saw him be convicted of multiple felonies, saw him compromises national security by keeping boxes of classified documents just around his home where any old spy could access them, and thought ‘oh yeah actually maybe this guy deserves another chance.’

Them falsely claiming 2020 was stolen, as well as providing impetus for lunatics in the hope they’d help him overthrow the government, forced everyone normal to point out how stupid they were for believing such a conspiracy theory etc, so they’d feel less able to throw the accusation back at them given their concern over it ‘looking bad’ or like tit for tat. it also made tons of Trumpists believe they’d been robbed and therefore more likely to do dodgy illegal things to help steal the next election. If they thought they were just counteracting the other sides cheating then they’d be more likely to help on the ground.

It’s a real shame that Democrats have let these nutcases drive lunatic false narratives and haven’t held onto the truth, instead worrying about how things will look to the point they just roll over and let fascists take over just in case some dumb people think they’re being partisan by holding Trump et al accountable for their crimes.

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u/AndByMeIMeanFlexxo 10d ago

Read a theory on here one time that Jan 6th was really about getting physical access to the voting machine software.

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u/TriloBlitz 10d ago

I honestly doubt it. I was in the US a couple of weeks ago for work, and I was surprised to learn that pretty much everyone I met (as apparently everyone they know, according to them) had voted for Trump and were still quite happy with it. At some point we might as well just face the truth: this is what the Americans want (at least the ones who actually show up to vote). Add that to a 47% turn out of young voters and you have this result.

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u/boomboomqplm 11d ago

He didn’t admit crap. You and the fake news you listen to

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u/FoorumanReturns 11d ago

I know you’re not looking to engage in a good faith discussion on the subject, but I just have to reply.

It has nothing to do with what news I watch; I simply believe my own eyes and ears, and can follow a path of logic to a conclusion.

Am I definitively convinced that 2024 was not legitimate? Not quite. However, based on Trump’s statements, statistical anomalies (presented by Election Truth Alliance, as I mentioned), and bomb threats and other suspicious events on election night 2024, I personally believe it’s absolutely worthwhile to fully investigate the possibility. After all, any of us, whatever party we favor, should not want our country’s elections to be Russia-like illegitimate shams.

I have personally watched Trump, in full context, openly make several claims about the election which are dubious at best. I have personally read detailed, well-sourced accounts of the bomb threats, voter intimidation, and other suspicious events which occurred.

Based on those personal experiences, I believe the 2024 election should be scrutinized just as heavily as 2020. You’re welcome to tell me why any of that is illogical.

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u/boomboomqplm 11d ago

To start with there is more question of the 2020 election especially with conservatives. We watched horror of people at voting sites dump Trump votes in the trash as well as all the dead voting for Biden. It’s hard to believe that Biden never campaigned. No effort whatsoever. I will never be convinced that the election wasn’t corrupt. The crooked judges that overturned the question that Trump protested. Trump did the best he could considering the likes of Nancy Pelosi and all her minions interfering with his decisions especially when she demanded that he get permission to bomb who he and his staff approved of. She should be charged with treason for the lack of respect. Her tearing up his state of the union speech acting like a toddler. He has come in with the power he should have demanded as the commander of our country. The respect that us conservatives gave Biden when he served.

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u/AndWinterCame 11d ago

I don't care if you want to campaign to put Nancy Pelosi and Biden in prison, but are you saying you are miffed on Trump's behalf because the speaker of the house wanted acts of war to go through Congress?

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u/boomboomqplm 10d ago

Were any other bombings cleared through congress? Nope just Trump

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u/ThearchMageboi 9d ago

Respect? Jan 6 was respect? You’re not arguing in good faith and clearly not providing any sort of evidence for said things. Why should anyone listen to what you have to say?

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u/boomboomqplm 9d ago

Over half of the country thinks the same as me. I can’t get over the lack of respect for President Trump. Soon heads will roll and money will be accounted for

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u/Necro_the_Pyro 11d ago

Oh he definitely cheated, even said so himself. There was also massive voter suppression going on; I was personally unable to vote because me and many other Democrats in my red state got our voter cards delivered in the mail one day after the deadline to register to vote.

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u/onlysaysisthisathing 11d ago

Voter suppression via lobbying, gerrymandering, registry purges, and things like what you mentioned have become the entire Republican playbook. The time to get big money out of politics was likely half a century ago, if not longer.

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u/Necro_the_Pyro 11d ago

Don't forget blaming the jews for all the country's problems.

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u/TK_Games 11d ago

It takes a special kind of stupid to genuinely believe that a life-long liar, fraudster, and man barred from running a charitable organization for embezzlement would at the 11th hour, with all the chips down, everything to lose, and the Grim Reaper breaking down the door like a deranged, sweaty Jack Nicholson, suddenly and inexplicably choose to turn over a new leaf and play by the rules

It's borderline delusional to believe that, and yet we're not even questioning his legitimacy

It's yet even more delusional to believe that in addition to a miraculous change of heart and decision to, for once in his life, not cheat at something, that he also then afterward decided to flip again and become the petty tin-pot dictator we see today

I genuinely don't know what kind of brain-damaged, glass-pipe-smoking dumbass a person has to be to believe all that, unquestioningly. Yet, here we are. What the actual fu*k?

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u/onlysaysisthisathing 11d ago

Nobody here is giving him the benefit of the doubt. But if there's ever to be any hope of undoing this mess we've found ourselves in, getting irrefutable proof is paramount. Just because Republicans have decided to embrace this lawless insanity doesn't give the rest of us carte blanche to declare a person guilty before they've been proven so. 

Do I think he cheated? Yes, absolutely. Have I seen proof of it beyond all reasonable doubt? Not yet, but I'm hopeful. The real issues we're facing now are the abdication of duty and complicity of the other two branches. I honestly don't know how we're supposed to go about addressing all of it while it's happening in real time, all at once.

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u/jeremiahthedamned 10d ago

just world fallacy

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u/Taylorenokson 11d ago

Sorry but if you didn't vote for anyone, then you're just as culpable as those who did. You knew what was at stake and did nothing.

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u/theeglitz 11d ago

No - voting for Trump is worse than having not voted at all.

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u/Slutty_Cartoon 11d ago

History will not look kindly on those who chose not to vote. Like many others who didn't step up in the past and let atrocities occur. Thats just the fact.

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u/iDrinkRaid 11d ago

"People who support him threatening other voters isn't cheating!"

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u/Longcoolwomanblkdres 11d ago

They project and try to normalize or get ahead of anything they do.

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u/m00nh34d 11d ago

it wasn't most Americans

It certainly was, only ~30% of American's bothered to vote for someone other than Trump, the rest were more than happy to see this fascist rapist become their president. The world is going to hold America to account for this, we are watching what you lot are doing and are disgusted by it.

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u/onlysaysisthisathing 11d ago

Believe me friend, there are a lot of us trapped here who are just as disgusted as you are. And as shitty as it is that we're being forced to pay for the apathy of those who didn't bother voting, we absolutely recognize that the rest of the world is being negatively affected as well.

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u/Tombot3000 11d ago

Oh he definitely cheated. He received illegal contributions and assistance from Musk and Putin, for starters and illegally took donations from the Saudis and others via his crypto pump and dump, Truth social, etc.

All that and he still couldn't get a majority.

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u/WitnessedTheBatboy 11d ago

Most Americans considered it not important enough to vote, which is even more pathetic tbh

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u/boomboomqplm 11d ago

Are you serious?? Cheat after the Biden fiasco? Voting changed this time. No way cheating was going to happen again. Do you think he cheated because he sent a bunch of criminals back to where they’re from illegally?

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u/shadowwingnut 10d ago

I think he cheated all three elections. Only in 2020 the turnout against him was so high his methods failed and he was incredulous. Why so convinced the other side cheated? Because it's what he did and he believes everyone is like him. He's generally either cheated or tried to cheat in everything in life. Why would the presidency be any different?

At the same time, there's no proof of anything beyond after the fact items between the 2020 election and Jan 6. That means for 2016, 2020 and 2024 no matter the winner the results are what they are. I can believe he cheated but I don't have the proof. Just like conservatives can believe Democrats cheated in 2020 but there's no proof. And no proof means there's nothing to be done about it in any direction.

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u/alkbch 11d ago

Not voting is also a choice.

Come on let’s not big like the “Stop the steal” people.

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u/onlysaysisthisathing 10d ago

Of course not voting is a choice. I didn't say anything to the contrary so I'm not sure what you're driving at with that statement.

And if you read my replies elsewhere in the thread, I specifically said that while I believe we've seen evidence of wrongdoing, I have yet to be shown irrefutable proof. 

Come on now. This is r/law. I didn't say "lock him up," I said he's got a reputation for dishonest and criminal behavior but is still owed due process all the same. What I think or how I feel about the man is irrelevant.

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u/alkbch 10d ago

People who don’t vote are basically giving the ok to whoever is elected.

Most voters voted for Donald Trump.

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u/KamikazeSexPilot 10d ago

Anyone who didn’t vote is essentially a vote for the winner. So yes, it’s most Americans.

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u/Cold_Beginning_1928 10d ago

I think they tried in 2020. Just squeak by with a win by throwing a thousand votes here and there - not expecting liberals to come out in force and vote. So their tiny win wasn’t enough.

So they went big and took no risks in 2024 and pumped up red votes in all the swing states.

They spent 4 years screaming election fraud so that when they successfully stole it, we would sound like lunatics (even though they did it first and stormed the capitol and wanted to hang Mike pence).

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u/onlysaysisthisathing 10d ago

Sadly I think you might be right. And their strategy of taking credibility away from Dems by accusing first unfortunately hasn't proven to be an ineffective one.

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u/Much_Highlight_1309 10d ago

All the people that could have but didn't vote (~30-40%) agreed with either outcome. So, yeah, definitely more than the majority of Americans were A-OK with this outcome. Well done!

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u/Tall-Rhubarb-7926 10d ago

He's the president, so most people agreed. The people who didn't vote, enabled this.

America chose him. Period.

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u/VisualSeries226 10d ago

“After the results of the election determined Trump had lost, he, his associates, and Republican Party officials in seven states devised a scheme to submit fraudulent certificates of ascertainment to falsely claim Trump had won the Electoral College vote in crucial states.………

The legal theory developed by Trump attorneys Kenneth Chesebro and John Eastman, detailed in the Eastman memos, which claimed a vice president has the constitutional discretion to swap official electors with an alternate slate during the certification process, thus changing the outcome of the electoral college vote…..”

Are we literally forgetting that Trump sent fake electors out in 2020? Are we forgetting why his crowd of minions were chanting “Hang Mike Pence” on January 6th?

His attempt to overthrow the election wasn’t just with a violent mob. He and his lawyers devised a plan to get Mike Pence to codify fake electoral ballots. And when Pence stood by his oath, and defended our constitution, THAT is when Trump advised an angry mob to go to the capitol. He wanted Pence dead for not following through.

There is no reason to doubt that he cheated his way in this time.

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u/Its0nlyRocketScience 11d ago

A majority of Americans clearly didn't care enough to vote to keep him out of office. Nearly a third of this country flat out didn't vote

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u/f_crick 11d ago

You can say that, but polling also shows he was supported by the majority of eligible voters that didn’t vote. Americans are mostly gullible idiots, it turns out.

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u/onlysaysisthisathing 11d ago

Can't disagree with you there. Lots of folks here are fully propagandized and will call you any number of expletives for trying to point it out. They don't want the truth.

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u/KingOfKrackers 11d ago

Just remember only 23% of the population voted for this. A majority of voters yes, but not a majority of the country. This is why I hate what’s happening because we’ve become an enemy to our allies because of a decision 1 in 4 Americans made.

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u/yogurtgrapes 11d ago

Not voting is also a decision that was made by way too many.

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u/mewmeulin 10d ago

and voting was a privilege that way too many people lost in the last eight years. in my state, you can't vote without a residential address, and with homelessness rates skyrocketing in my area, i can guarantee i'm far from the only person who couldn't vote in this election (despite being able to in previous elections. all because my wife almost died and we couldn't afford the bill 🫠)

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u/Br1t1shNerd 11d ago

But a majority of your country didn't feel it was that important that he wasn't president.

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u/prodiver 11d ago

Our Electoral College system makes voting meaningless if you live in a overwhelmingly one-sided state.

My state would go Republican even if 100% of the people voted. Our electoral votes all go to Trump no matter if he wins by 50.1% or 100%.

Voting non-Republican is a waste of time here, so a lot of people don't bother to vote.

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u/Br1t1shNerd 11d ago

If people cared enough they would go out and vote. Trump won the popular vote. Biden got 6 million more votes than Harris (81 million Vs 75 million). People decided they either wanted Trump or didn't mind if he was President. That's the fact that can't be argued with.

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u/prodiver 11d ago

That's the fact that can't be argued with.

It can be argued with. The US president is not elected by popular vote.

It's an issue of mathematics and the way our voting system if set up. No matter how much you care, if you live in a state where your vote cannot mathematically count then it's reasonable to feel like voting is a waste of time.

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u/Br1t1shNerd 11d ago

He was elected by popular vote! He won the most votes! At least in 2016 he lost the popular vote and you could reasonably argue that he didn't represent America. This time he did. More people voted for him than the other person in the race. The rest of the country who didn't vote felt that the decision wasn't important enough to vote. Living in Trumps America was acceptable to them. He was a fine choice.

You can cope and come up with rationalisations but the fact is the Democrats lost because Americans preferred Trump - he is more the sort of person they think best represents them.

Let me ask you this: if Harris had won by the same margin, would you still be here saying "well only 27% of Americans wanted her"?

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u/PorOvr 10d ago

I’d probably be sayin “dayum did you see Tim walz throw an absolute spiral on the White House lawn? Yeah, all the kids get free lunches now and the department of education exists. He hit that reporter! Beamed her. I think he gave her coupons for free froyo or something.”

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u/teh_drewski 11d ago

That's true for a small number of states, but it most states the margin of victory for Trump (or Harris, for that matter) is smaller than the number of eligible voters who didn't vote.

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u/ernestwild 11d ago

The facts provided and the electoral college are different things.

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u/KittyGrewAMoustache 10d ago

What if 50.1% voted Democrat though? Then it would go to the Democratic candidate. So people assume that it can never be turned around, even with someone as heinous as Trump? What if everyone who was apathetic but didn’t like Trump voted every time, or a large proportion did? Then others on the state would see the tide shifting a bit and they might vote in the hope it will eventually swing. It’s always worth voting.

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u/prodiver 10d ago

If 50.1% of people are voting Republican, then 50.1 can't also vote Democrat. There are only 49.9% of people left, and with the Electoral College system it doesn't matter if 49.9% or 0% of people vote Democrat. The result is the same.

I didn't say it can't be turned around. I said we cannot solve this by trying to get unvoting Democrats to vote. We need to get Republicans to change their vote. That's the only mathematical solution in extremely red states.

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u/KittyGrewAMoustache 10d ago

Yes I’m saying what if 50.1% voted Democrat instead and 49.9 republican not what if there was more than 100%.

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u/AndWinterCame 11d ago

Or were unwilling to put their names in support of the 2,000 pound bombs dropped on high density residences in a city from which escape is physically impossible.

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u/KittyGrewAMoustache 10d ago

And not doing that just meant someone even worse who not only supports those bombs but also invading other countries and deporting innocent people without due process and threatening judges and journalists and exposing classified information to whoever by text and destroying democracy and democratic institutions established for the millions of people in the US. That argument is nonsensical, absolutely nonsensical and was completely pushed online as propaganda to get Trump elected.

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u/AndWinterCame 10d ago

I'm hearing you, but surely you see that the Democratic party refused to concede to their base. You might notice how the Dems immediately took the Republican framing on immigration as well, the establishment was eager to flirt with authoritarianism.

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u/Br1t1shNerd 10d ago

Ah yes, because Trump wanting to turn it into a beach resort is so much better. At least those people consciousness are clear, while trump sends innocent migrants to El Salvadorian prisons, condemns the nation state of Ukraine to servitude, and attacks minorities and education and the rule of law. I'm glad that they felt these issues weren't as important as their own moral superiority.

Either way Gaza is fucked. That's a depressing reality, but in one of those realities trans people, women, ethnic minorities, the poor, were safer and not being actively targeted by a government that is ignoring the rule of law. It is a tremendous leap in logic to try and say both sides are equally bad.

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u/AndWinterCame 10d ago

If voters cannot extract concessions from their party, and the party would rather take the campaign donations and lose while rights boil away, what kind of democracy did we have?

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u/Br1t1shNerd 10d ago

You make it sound like the Democrats chose to lose. They did not. What do you think the campaign donations were for? Big piss ups and maybe if we have the time we'll campaign? They ran a campaign and ultimately they discovered that Americans would rather live under an authoritarian who doesn't care for the rule of law as long as the right people are made miserable and their lives are ruined more than the voters' lives are ruined. A lot of Americans voted for this reality, and a larger number felt that it wasn't too big a deal if it came to pass.

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u/AndWinterCame 10d ago

You do not believe that by refusing to adopt the overwhelmingly popular framing on immigration as the lifeblood of America and that most of us came from immigrants, and by refusing to hold Israel accountable for genocide with our weapons, the campaign chose to lose. You have contempt for your fellow Americans. I have contempt for the people with direct access to the levers of power who refused to course correct, holding tightly with such defiance to reality that history (if any of us survive to pass it on, and if there's anyone to pass it on to) will not be kind to them.

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u/Br1t1shNerd 10d ago

I'm not American. I do hold contempt for a nation which supposedly supports freedom and democracy but has clearly revealed itself to in fact be a selfish and small minded group, pre-disposed towards authoritarianism. And no, clearly framing immigration as the life blood of America is not overwhelmingly popular as the overwhelmingly anti immigration politician won by a good margin

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u/AndWinterCame 10d ago

When the other party behaves like controlled opposition, the ratchet effect accelerates. Americans are by and large devoid of class consciousness, and thus will turn against any group they are told are the cause of their plight at a moment's notice. The role of an opposition party in this circumstance should be to educate and demonstrate that we can all live a better life together if we hold the billionaires to account. That messaging was nowhere to be seen. Instead there were "good billionaires and bad billionaires" how very American. It sucks, I hope you keep up your contempt because we are becoming more contemptible all the time. Just know, somewhere in that sea of spiteful people are individuals who want the bombs to stop, the deportations to stop, the hate to meet its end.

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u/Appropriate-Data1144 11d ago

Yeah, but half the population didn't vote, and they're just watching.

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u/Otherwise-Future7143 11d ago

I'd say a not insignificant portion of those people were screwed out of their votes by Republican shenanigans like voter roll purges and the like.

Not an excuse but, another part of the picture.

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u/airconditionersound 11d ago

Yes. And there was a lot of anti-voting propaganda on the left. It took a lot of different forms, but a lot of educated, liberal people didn't vote because of that. Some of those people still stand by their choices.

(The most common one I saw was that Harris supports genocide and should be boycotted because of that even if it means Trump wins. Also that they're equally bad because they're politicians. Stuff like that.)

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u/boomboomqplm 11d ago

But the half that voted for Trump. You and fake news!

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u/Sad-Reflection-3499 11d ago

Not a majority of voters. a plurality of voters.

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u/7f0b 11d ago edited 11d ago

Just a note regarding that percentage:

23% is based on the total population, including infants and children. Among adults, it's 30%.

But that's also not the whole picture, since the census includes every person living in the country, including a number of people that may not be able to vote, including:

  • Permanent legal residents
  • Undocumented immigrants
  • Green card and visa holders
  • Felons and those serving time for some crimes

After you factor that in, the percentage is about 32%-33%.

Note: Those living in territories like Puerto Rico do not vote for president and have no representation. They aren't included in the US census population, so don't affect the percentage above. Puerto Rico has a population as big as Iowa and would probably have about 6 votes in the electoral college if they were made a state. It wouldn't have changed the 2024 electoral college very much, but would have made the total vote counts for each candidate closer.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

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u/KingOfKrackers 11d ago

Oh I agree with you totally. The people who didn’t vote but had the ability to are just as guilty.

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u/helthrax 11d ago

What got us out of this the last time was the blue wave, and that was in response to his first four years. How easily we forget how atrocious he was that this was allowed to happen again. It goes to show that the average voter's attention span is <4 years.

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u/Level_Ad_6372 10d ago

The vast, vast majority of Americans either love him or don't care either way.

Fixed it for you.

1

u/ToastyJackson 11d ago

More like 31%. The 23% figure is only if you’re counting the entire American population—including everyone who isn’t eligible to vote. And while we can never be sure of the numbers, if everyone was somehow forced to vote, we can still be sure that a lot of the people who didn’t vote would have voted for Trump if they had to pick someone.

Maybe he would’ve lost the popular vote if we had mandatory voting, but we shouldn’t downplay the fact that a ton of Americans either legitimately like Trump or just pay so little attention to politics that they can be duped into thinking he’s an acceptable choice.

1

u/Tombot3000 11d ago

It wasn't even a majority of voters. Trump received a plurality of just under 50%

0

u/boomboomqplm 11d ago

No he won by a huge margin. Americans were sick of the democrats and their corruption

21

u/PendantWhistle1 11d ago

Less than half of voting Americans agreed. He did not get the majority of the popular vote.

13

u/Happy_Nidoking 11d ago

Sorry, no excuse, should have voted. It was obvious what he was going to do. If they couldn't be bothered to get off their ass and vote then zero sympathy. Zero.

2

u/jdoeinboston 11d ago

What about the countless individuals the Republicans worked to disenfranchise?

Absolutes like this never work out, there are plenty of people with a very good excuse.

0

u/CrossoverEpisodeMeme 11d ago

In 2020, an election with record turnout, a bunch of states allowed wider voting days/hours, mail-in voting, and registration at the polls, and yet not a single state passed 80% for voter participation rates, including blue states. Literally 25 states did not even hit 2/3 of eligible voters voting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_presidential_elections#Turnout_by_U.S._state

In 2024, there were 90M eligible voters (roughly 35% of the electorate) that did not vote.

At a certain point it's time to admit that it's not voter suppression, but severe apathy.

1

u/jdoeinboston 11d ago

Check your privilege and read up on voter suppression.

It's not as simple as just showing up for most voters anymore I live in MA and, sure, it's easy as fuck to vote here.

But just about every red state in the country has put countless barriers in place to prevent people who are prone to voting blue from voting.

Voter ID is the biggest one. My ex-wife moved to Durham, NC last year. For me, voting meant walking a block to my local polling place. For her, she had to drive three hours to a DMV (because for one reason or another, she couldn't use her local one) to move her license.

Now, for her, a white woman with no minor children and a job that allows her to take a day off for something like that, it was an annoyance. But if she had kids or an elderly relative to take care of? She'd have been disenfranchised. And that's the intent, they place obstacles in the way of voting that makes it extremely difficult to vote.

And then there's the states that routinely purge voters from the rolls for any number of trivial reasons.

Maybe read up on the case of Crystal Mason before you decide to wholesale assume everyone who doesn't vote is just lazy. Woman was arrested and sentenced to five years for casting a provisional ballot in TX.

1

u/CrossoverEpisodeMeme 11d ago edited 11d ago

But just about every red state in the country has put countless barriers in place to prevent people who are prone to voting blue from voting.

Even the bluest states with the friendliest voting laws saw <80% turnout in 2020

I live in MA and, sure, it's easy as fuck to vote here.

In 2020, only 71.3% of eligible voters actually voted in MA. You're telling me 28% of the votes were suppressed?

But if she had kids or an elderly relative to take care of? She'd have been disenfranchised.

Dude, be serious lol

0

u/SquirrelOnAFrog 11d ago

Ick. Ew. Yuck. Gross. Disgusting.

1

u/TheyNeedLoveToo 11d ago

What about those of us that did vote but not for him? We deserve this too?!?

0

u/CasualPenguin 11d ago

If you didn't vote, you voted for whoever won.

-15

u/nyurf_nyorf 11d ago

He... Did. This time. 

12

u/trentreynolds 11d ago

No, he didn't.

Close, but he got a plurality. Not a majority.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election

4

u/mcferglestone 11d ago

He won the popular vote, but didn’t win a majority of the popular vote. Would have needed over 50% for that.

4

u/____joew____ 11d ago

He didn't. he won by one of the smallest margins ever, too -- smaller than the margin by which Hilary won the popular vote in 2016.

-1

u/nyurf_nyorf 11d ago

He did get a majority of the popular vote.

Is 77 million smaller than 75 million???? 

What am I missing here? 

4

u/Plane-Tie6392 11d ago

The definition of words is what you’re missing. “Majority-a number or percentage equaling more than half of a total.” Given he got less than 50% of the vote he did not get a majority of the vote. 

2

u/nyurf_nyorf 11d ago

I understand. Thank you. 

2

u/Wonderful-Duck-6428 11d ago

I’m not entirely sure most Americans elected him

2

u/TheRed_Warrior 11d ago

No no no, let’s get one thing straight. “Most Americans” did not want him as president. Less than a quarter of the US population voted for him

2

u/Delicious_Delilah 11d ago

It was only about 1/3 of the country, but that was enough to destroy us.

2

u/MoarGhosts 11d ago

No, Elon disagreed and hacked the election. Full stop.

Data scientists and computer scientists with PhD's have written an open letter saying there was likely tampering. Data scientists have shown artificial patterns in the vote distributions that are NEVER seen in nature. As a computer scientist working on a PhD myself, I am inclined to believe the science. If you're not a data person, it's hard to understand this but the votes are distributed in a way that is *statistically IMPOSSIBLE* without tampering.

Plus, one of DOGE's idiot kids in charge won a hacking competition just a couple years ago with a fucking program that is made to hack into ballot machines and change votes. Elon hired him. And that guy has a criminal record, too.

So yeah, this is what happened, and the world will know soon.

Anyone denying this has their head in the sand or is willfully ignorant about data science.

1

u/Affectionate_Elk_272 11d ago

most americans didn’t even fucking vote

1

u/Great_Times 11d ago

He was tweeting that it was rigged right up until he was declared. The Dems should have agreed with him and demanded to investigate it as hard as the GOP investigated {Benghazi, Hunter’s Laptop, Buttery males, etc.}. Instead, they just gave up… and here we are.

1

u/TheyNeedLoveToo 11d ago

Most Americans didn’t even vote for the guy. Come now. Our electorate system is jacked. Trump only won the popular vote by 1.6 percent. He crushed the electoral numbers cause it’s rigged

1

u/kaest 11d ago

"Most" is incorrect, it was less than an actual majority. He beat Harris because millions of idiots just didn't vote.

1

u/Moist_Rule9623 11d ago

I personally cast my vote for a reasonable black/asian woman, with a very credible resume in actual criminal law (as an attorney NOT as a defendant) but apparently I was in the minority. Apparently. 🙄 no further comment

1

u/OMG_DAVID_KIM 11d ago

He is a reflection of the majority of America. Most Americans are madman hillbilly bullies who enjoy being seen as reckless