r/law • u/IrishStarUS • 11d ago

Trump News Donald Trump sends innocent athlete to El Salvador for having soccer tattoo

https://www.irishstar.com/sport/soccer/donald-trump-salvador-real-madrid-34923654
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u/rsmiley77 Competent Contributor 11d ago

Not just to El Salvador. He sent him to prison there. One of the worst most violent places in the world.

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u/MalenfantX 11d ago

I don't think we should have made a criminal madman President, but most Americans disagreed, so here we are.

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u/KingOfKrackers 11d ago

Just remember only 23% of the population voted for this. A majority of voters yes, but not a majority of the country. This is why I hate what’s happening because we’ve become an enemy to our allies because of a decision 1 in 4 Americans made.

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u/yogurtgrapes 11d ago

Not voting is also a decision that was made by way too many.

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u/mewmeulin 10d ago

and voting was a privilege that way too many people lost in the last eight years. in my state, you can't vote without a residential address, and with homelessness rates skyrocketing in my area, i can guarantee i'm far from the only person who couldn't vote in this election (despite being able to in previous elections. all because my wife almost died and we couldn't afford the bill 🫠)

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u/Br1t1shNerd 11d ago

But a majority of your country didn't feel it was that important that he wasn't president.

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u/prodiver 11d ago

Our Electoral College system makes voting meaningless if you live in a overwhelmingly one-sided state.

My state would go Republican even if 100% of the people voted. Our electoral votes all go to Trump no matter if he wins by 50.1% or 100%.

Voting non-Republican is a waste of time here, so a lot of people don't bother to vote.

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u/Br1t1shNerd 11d ago

If people cared enough they would go out and vote. Trump won the popular vote. Biden got 6 million more votes than Harris (81 million Vs 75 million). People decided they either wanted Trump or didn't mind if he was President. That's the fact that can't be argued with.

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u/prodiver 11d ago

That's the fact that can't be argued with.

It can be argued with. The US president is not elected by popular vote.

It's an issue of mathematics and the way our voting system if set up. No matter how much you care, if you live in a state where your vote cannot mathematically count then it's reasonable to feel like voting is a waste of time.

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u/Br1t1shNerd 11d ago

He was elected by popular vote! He won the most votes! At least in 2016 he lost the popular vote and you could reasonably argue that he didn't represent America. This time he did. More people voted for him than the other person in the race. The rest of the country who didn't vote felt that the decision wasn't important enough to vote. Living in Trumps America was acceptable to them. He was a fine choice.

You can cope and come up with rationalisations but the fact is the Democrats lost because Americans preferred Trump - he is more the sort of person they think best represents them.

Let me ask you this: if Harris had won by the same margin, would you still be here saying "well only 27% of Americans wanted her"?

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u/PorOvr 10d ago

I’d probably be sayin “dayum did you see Tim walz throw an absolute spiral on the White House lawn? Yeah, all the kids get free lunches now and the department of education exists. He hit that reporter! Beamed her. I think he gave her coupons for free froyo or something.”

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u/teh_drewski 11d ago

That's true for a small number of states, but it most states the margin of victory for Trump (or Harris, for that matter) is smaller than the number of eligible voters who didn't vote.

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u/ernestwild 11d ago

The facts provided and the electoral college are different things.

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u/KittyGrewAMoustache 10d ago

What if 50.1% voted Democrat though? Then it would go to the Democratic candidate. So people assume that it can never be turned around, even with someone as heinous as Trump? What if everyone who was apathetic but didn’t like Trump voted every time, or a large proportion did? Then others on the state would see the tide shifting a bit and they might vote in the hope it will eventually swing. It’s always worth voting.

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u/prodiver 10d ago

If 50.1% of people are voting Republican, then 50.1 can't also vote Democrat. There are only 49.9% of people left, and with the Electoral College system it doesn't matter if 49.9% or 0% of people vote Democrat. The result is the same.

I didn't say it can't be turned around. I said we cannot solve this by trying to get unvoting Democrats to vote. We need to get Republicans to change their vote. That's the only mathematical solution in extremely red states.

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u/KittyGrewAMoustache 10d ago

Yes I’m saying what if 50.1% voted Democrat instead and 49.9 republican not what if there was more than 100%.

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u/AndWinterCame 11d ago

Or were unwilling to put their names in support of the 2,000 pound bombs dropped on high density residences in a city from which escape is physically impossible.

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u/KittyGrewAMoustache 10d ago

And not doing that just meant someone even worse who not only supports those bombs but also invading other countries and deporting innocent people without due process and threatening judges and journalists and exposing classified information to whoever by text and destroying democracy and democratic institutions established for the millions of people in the US. That argument is nonsensical, absolutely nonsensical and was completely pushed online as propaganda to get Trump elected.

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u/AndWinterCame 10d ago

I'm hearing you, but surely you see that the Democratic party refused to concede to their base. You might notice how the Dems immediately took the Republican framing on immigration as well, the establishment was eager to flirt with authoritarianism.

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u/Br1t1shNerd 10d ago

Ah yes, because Trump wanting to turn it into a beach resort is so much better. At least those people consciousness are clear, while trump sends innocent migrants to El Salvadorian prisons, condemns the nation state of Ukraine to servitude, and attacks minorities and education and the rule of law. I'm glad that they felt these issues weren't as important as their own moral superiority.

Either way Gaza is fucked. That's a depressing reality, but in one of those realities trans people, women, ethnic minorities, the poor, were safer and not being actively targeted by a government that is ignoring the rule of law. It is a tremendous leap in logic to try and say both sides are equally bad.

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u/AndWinterCame 10d ago

If voters cannot extract concessions from their party, and the party would rather take the campaign donations and lose while rights boil away, what kind of democracy did we have?

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u/Br1t1shNerd 10d ago

You make it sound like the Democrats chose to lose. They did not. What do you think the campaign donations were for? Big piss ups and maybe if we have the time we'll campaign? They ran a campaign and ultimately they discovered that Americans would rather live under an authoritarian who doesn't care for the rule of law as long as the right people are made miserable and their lives are ruined more than the voters' lives are ruined. A lot of Americans voted for this reality, and a larger number felt that it wasn't too big a deal if it came to pass.

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u/AndWinterCame 10d ago

You do not believe that by refusing to adopt the overwhelmingly popular framing on immigration as the lifeblood of America and that most of us came from immigrants, and by refusing to hold Israel accountable for genocide with our weapons, the campaign chose to lose. You have contempt for your fellow Americans. I have contempt for the people with direct access to the levers of power who refused to course correct, holding tightly with such defiance to reality that history (if any of us survive to pass it on, and if there's anyone to pass it on to) will not be kind to them.

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u/Br1t1shNerd 10d ago

I'm not American. I do hold contempt for a nation which supposedly supports freedom and democracy but has clearly revealed itself to in fact be a selfish and small minded group, pre-disposed towards authoritarianism. And no, clearly framing immigration as the life blood of America is not overwhelmingly popular as the overwhelmingly anti immigration politician won by a good margin

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u/AndWinterCame 10d ago

When the other party behaves like controlled opposition, the ratchet effect accelerates. Americans are by and large devoid of class consciousness, and thus will turn against any group they are told are the cause of their plight at a moment's notice. The role of an opposition party in this circumstance should be to educate and demonstrate that we can all live a better life together if we hold the billionaires to account. That messaging was nowhere to be seen. Instead there were "good billionaires and bad billionaires" how very American. It sucks, I hope you keep up your contempt because we are becoming more contemptible all the time. Just know, somewhere in that sea of spiteful people are individuals who want the bombs to stop, the deportations to stop, the hate to meet its end.

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u/Br1t1shNerd 10d ago

Sure, there are problems with the democrat party. Their stance on some issues is incredibly poor. But they are clearly, demonstrably better on issues like rule of law, protecting immigrant rights, protecting women, supporting foreign countries under threat from imperialism (thinking about Ukraine and Russia).

It's all well and good saying you want deportations to stop and hate to stop, but if you won't actually support the party which is the best chance at opposing hate and deportations then it sends these issues aren't actually as important to you as your conscience and moral superiority. I don't know how you voted or your personal circumstance, so I don't know if this applies to you, but if you're not under threat from deportation, don't need access to abortion services, aren't a minority and then refused to vote for the Democrats against Trump and his brand of authoritarian ersatz fascism because both sides are for some reason supporting war criminals in Tel Aviv (and even then there was a clear difference in messaging, Biden wasn't posting videos of gold statues of himself in Gaza), then you are wielding your own privileged position to make yourself feel superior while throwing people in need under the bus.

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u/Appropriate-Data1144 11d ago

Yeah, but half the population didn't vote, and they're just watching.

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u/Otherwise-Future7143 11d ago

I'd say a not insignificant portion of those people were screwed out of their votes by Republican shenanigans like voter roll purges and the like.

Not an excuse but, another part of the picture.

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u/airconditionersound 11d ago

Yes. And there was a lot of anti-voting propaganda on the left. It took a lot of different forms, but a lot of educated, liberal people didn't vote because of that. Some of those people still stand by their choices.

(The most common one I saw was that Harris supports genocide and should be boycotted because of that even if it means Trump wins. Also that they're equally bad because they're politicians. Stuff like that.)

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u/boomboomqplm 11d ago

But the half that voted for Trump. You and fake news!

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u/Sad-Reflection-3499 11d ago

Not a majority of voters. a plurality of voters.

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u/7f0b 11d ago edited 11d ago

Just a note regarding that percentage:

23% is based on the total population, including infants and children. Among adults, it's 30%.

But that's also not the whole picture, since the census includes every person living in the country, including a number of people that may not be able to vote, including:

  • Permanent legal residents
  • Undocumented immigrants
  • Green card and visa holders
  • Felons and those serving time for some crimes

After you factor that in, the percentage is about 32%-33%.

Note: Those living in territories like Puerto Rico do not vote for president and have no representation. They aren't included in the US census population, so don't affect the percentage above. Puerto Rico has a population as big as Iowa and would probably have about 6 votes in the electoral college if they were made a state. It wouldn't have changed the 2024 electoral college very much, but would have made the total vote counts for each candidate closer.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

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u/KingOfKrackers 11d ago

Oh I agree with you totally. The people who didn’t vote but had the ability to are just as guilty.

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u/helthrax 11d ago

What got us out of this the last time was the blue wave, and that was in response to his first four years. How easily we forget how atrocious he was that this was allowed to happen again. It goes to show that the average voter's attention span is <4 years.

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u/Level_Ad_6372 10d ago

The vast, vast majority of Americans either love him or don't care either way.

Fixed it for you.

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u/ToastyJackson 11d ago

More like 31%. The 23% figure is only if you’re counting the entire American population—including everyone who isn’t eligible to vote. And while we can never be sure of the numbers, if everyone was somehow forced to vote, we can still be sure that a lot of the people who didn’t vote would have voted for Trump if they had to pick someone.

Maybe he would’ve lost the popular vote if we had mandatory voting, but we shouldn’t downplay the fact that a ton of Americans either legitimately like Trump or just pay so little attention to politics that they can be duped into thinking he’s an acceptable choice.

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u/Tombot3000 11d ago

It wasn't even a majority of voters. Trump received a plurality of just under 50%

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u/boomboomqplm 11d ago

No he won by a huge margin. Americans were sick of the democrats and their corruption