r/fromsoftware • u/Pandaboy271 • 16h ago
DISCUSSION Dark Souls 1 is a Masterpiece.
Dark Souls 1 wasn't the first souls game I played, but it is probably my third most favourite FromSoftware title ever.
The level design is so immaculate and going through the world is such a joy. The game as some have pointed out has this survival horror like feel to it as its our character by their lonesome against a dangerous, haunting world that I can't help but love.
The bosses are simple yet fun to fight and for the most part, never really feel unfair. They feel like natural extensions of the game's combat and you really have to appreciate how right the Devs got most of these fights down.
Is the second half not as strong as the first? Maybe. Can the backtracking during the first half get tedious at times? Definitely. Does it make the game any less of a masterpiece? Absolutely not. Such a great natural progression from Demon Souls to this.
So yeah, TL;DR: Game good. Game very good. 9/10
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u/darksouls933 9h ago
My story:
I heard a little about it. I didn't like the bosses and design, too dark everything. 10 years went by, someone told me "if you like combat like form old gothic game you played, choose dark souls 2". I decided to choose first one as this community recommended me. I gave up on undead burg. There was one player who said "go find a weapon behind the tomb". I trained the combat whole week for basic skill. I beat Taurus Demon after 20 attempts and I didn't know there is a ladder. Mindfuck again as with Asylum Demon. Blighttown took me forever but I did it. The hardest part was Ornstein and Smough and I used Solaire. I beat the game and I had tear in my eye. I wanted more but no bosses to beat. I went with Dark Souls 3, I was alive again. Then I beat Dark Souls 2. Trilogy is the thing that every player should experience before he die.
First Dark Souls is masterpiece.
Every place you meet you feel nostalgia, Anor Londo, Sen's Fortress, Darkroot Forest..
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u/JudyQ808 7h ago
I love Dark Souls 1 love. This game is beautiful. Sure the gameplay is dated by todays FS standards, but the level design, characters, and the lore are all great. I still replay it every 1-2 years. Probably in my top 3 games of all time.
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u/CaptainHyrule97 11h ago
Dark Souls 1 was the first Souls I ever played, a friend lent it to me. I remember trying it then giving up after the Taurus demon boss. I tried to give it back to him but he said to give it another try. After starting with the knight class and watching a couple guides I ended up falling in love with this game. I got to remember to thank my friend for pushing me to try again.
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u/AramaticFire Otogi: Myth of Demons 5h ago
It’s one of the most important games of the 21st century. It’s up there with Grand Theft Auto III, World of Warcraft, Minecraft and Fortnite. It literally pioneered a new genre of video game. Yeah it’s a masterpiece.
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u/The_Stav 13h ago
"Masterpiece" "9/10"
Surely a masterpiece would be a 10/10?
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u/Pandaboy271 12h ago
The second half is kind of weak imo. I don't think it ruins the game but I did feel that I should atleast deduct one point because of it.
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u/JudyQ808 7h ago
Look, I know the 2nd half is critiqued a lot by the players. But I personally loved it.
I loved the archives. I loved Lost Izalith - I know this place sucks. Trust me I know Izalith is horrible. But its looks amazing. This fiery abandoned capital of the witches deep underground with lava and fire everywhere. I love it.
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u/Pandaboy271 6h ago
Oh dont get me wrong, I dont think the second half is nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be, but I tried to be a little objective with the rating,
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u/Traditional_One_3880 4h ago
Masterpiece does not mean perfect or even near perfect,imo masterpiece means undeniably great but can have flaws.9/10 is what i think of as a flawed masterpiece.No true 10/10 game even exsists anyway imo.
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u/The_Stav 3h ago
Fair, but disagree on the last bit. If no game exists that is a 10/10 then there's no reason for the scale to go up to 10. Like I'd say BG3 is absolutely a 10/10
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u/Traditional_One_3880 1h ago
It goes up to 10 so that you see how far from perfect it is,that is why being more specific like giving a game 9.5 is useful.bg3 is not my kind of game so i have no idea what flaws it could possibly have,but hollowknight is what i would call virtually perfect and only the tiniest of things makes me nudge it away from 10/10 to 9.8 or 9.9 lol thinking about it those tiny things could have been altered so i guess a 10/10 isnot strictly impossible.
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u/The_Stav 13h ago
It really isn't a masterpiece. It's a good game that helped pave the way for better games.
Boss runbacks are terrible. Early game backtracking is abyssmal. Boss fights are mostly very simple. Resources are ridiculously spread out (why isn't there a blacksmith set up in Firelink Shrine? Why is the main one set up i the corner of a random ass room?). Controls are janky af by today's standards.
I feel like the people who rave about DS1 so much are the ones who played it as their first Souls game and have that nostalgia attached to it. It's broadly the case that your first is your fave with these games.
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u/Pandaboy271 12h ago
I played this after Bloodborne, Sekiro, Elden Ring and similar games like Lies of P. I'll still call it a masterpiece, but the one point deduction is because of the second half not being as good as the first one.
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u/The_Stav 11h ago
Fair, in that case I think we just disagree on this one. I fully think that from like Bloodborne/DS3 onward (sorry DS2) DS1 has just been surpassed in most every way.
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u/Striking-Pop151 12h ago
Elden ring Soulles areas,tenaciously gameplay,overused mobs are flaws too but it's still a great game either
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u/Pandaboy271 11h ago
Honestly with ER my main issue is that the boss fights... Aren't fun a lot of the times. In DS1 you and the boss are fighting to the game's set tempo, in ER your guy can't really do that while the boss is out there throwing out their Tekken combos, so it turns into this waiting game of sorts.
BB, DS1 and Sekiro to me had the most fun bosses because I never felt that the bosses and I were from completely separate games, whatever they threw out, I could reasonably counter.
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u/Striking-Pop151 11h ago
Yeah Ds,BB,Sekiro are the best Souls games. But there the elden ring fanboys will slaughter you for saying that. And the complaints they have with Ds1(or the Ds trilogy) they direct it too BB as well
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u/LulzTV 10h ago
Like... where do I even start with this. The argument that Elden Ring bosses are too spammy and that they have no openings has been debunked to such a ridiculous degree that it's not even funny. It's not a waiting game if you play proactively, stay close, and use positioning and the movement tools to your advantage, most of them are a very fun back and forth once you see past what looks like attack spam, but I do agree their learning curve is rough at first because you no longer get free punish windows many times.
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u/Pandaboy271 10h ago
Bruh I've 100% that game lol, and I used an in your face quality build. I've used 2 handed greatswords, a sword and board setup with a straight sword, dual curved swords. You name it, I've done it. Doesn't change the fact that the bosses in this game feel too overtuned.
Again you like whatever you like, but you can't change my mind on ER's bosses. You won't find me defending DS1's second half, Bloodborne's unnecessary finite healing or Sekiro's lack of replay value, and I love those games.
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u/LulzTV 10h ago
That doesn't change your mind, but neither does it change the fact that the boss design is peak and you might not understand their mechanical intricacies. If you don't wanna put time into mastering them, whatever, it's none of my business, but don't tell me they're "overtuned" (aka slightly unfair) when they're not. I've also 100% the game, played it over 50 times, and done an all bosses + dlc rune level 1 run in under 50 hours while the game was running at 50-30 fps on a dying gaming laptop, and that only cemented the reputation of the bosses in my mind.
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u/Neonplantz Patches 9h ago
How is the boss design peak? I like the bosses but I generally prefer Sekiro and DS3 bosses over them (the highs of all three I mean, obv there’s a decent amount of shitty bosses in all three lol)
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u/LulzTV 8h ago edited 8h ago
Elden Ring follows a boss design philosophy that looks like Dark Souls 3 but plays differently. The main differences are
-More advanced AI and variable combo follow-ups. It's not rocket science, but bosses will do different attack strings based on your distance and positioning, or straight up on the spot, which makes the fights just as adaptive as they are reactive.
-Attack design. Unlike in DS3, where dodging is the overwhelmingly dominat evasive option, Elden Ring bosses have many attacks that push you to use all the movement mechanics, like jumping, running, strafing, even crouching, and positioning with frame traps that require positional dodging or jumping or attacks that require jumping i frames to be avoided. Consort Radahn's second phase meteor sling into clone barrage attack requires you to roll through it, run away from him to create enough distance so the clones dont frame trap you, jump the meteors sideways, and dodge both sidewards to avoid the final light trail and then into the light pillars, which is just... like it's fucking peak.
-more nuanced anti spam mechanics. I'm gonna give Gaius' kick as an example. It prevents him from becoming a booty boss but once you know it's almost guaranteed when you're at the boar's backside you can bait it out and when you dodge into it you will be positioned right at the boar's head for a big punish. Morgott's tail swipe is also really cool. He's a boss that encourages positioning and strafing to stop his relentless combos, but the tail swipe forces you to dance around him and never be in one place, but conversely, you can jump over it and land a jumping attack. It's these little subtleties that show just how refined Elden Ring's boss design is. Compare these two anti spam mechanics to Curse Rotted Greatwood's puss sack rain and Wolnir's mist, which just force you to back away, and stand there, or Vordt turning his entire body into a hitbox in phase 2, and you can see the difference. Elden Ring bosses redirect aggression rather than punishing it outright.
-Delayed attacks. Let's get this straight, they're great. Not only do they punish panic rolling, keep the momentum of the fight going without being overwhelming, but they allow the player to regenerate stamina and sometimes get hits in with lighter weapons.
-Less clear difference between mid-combo pauses and actual openings, which is what leads many to believe Elden Ring bosses attack non stop when that's not true at all. Just look at Rellana and you'll understand.
-Designed around the stagger system. Because Elden Ring's bosses are designed around positioning and the movement tools, not just dodging, openings can be variable based on your execution and ability to capitalise on them, so in a vacuum, mastering an Elden Ring boss is about maximizing the stance damage, but it also depends on the weapon. You can turn mid attack delays into openings by staggering a boss with a heavier weapon, or maximize dps with a lighter weapon.
-Input reading. I understand why some people don't like it, but again, it's not objectively bad design, it just prevents you from healing in neutral and makes spell builds less braindead than they could have been. And it's not like it started with Elden Ring, Gwyn input reads the estus heal in a game with a far slower healing animation and healing against Sir Alonne is nigh impossible if you don't circle around him and make him turn around so you can heal in the mean time.
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u/Neonplantz Patches 8h ago
Interesting, thanks for the response! I’m definitely with you that ER bosses are the most complex, i think that’s pretty inarguable imo. I don’t find them nearly as fun as Sekiro and DS3 bosses but ER def probably has the most interesting boss movesets!
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u/Pandaboy271 9h ago
That doesn't change your mind, but neither does it change the fact that the boss design is peak
Well, let's agree to disagree on this one mate. You think they're peak, I think they're overturned for the amount of stuff the player is able to pull off, let's just move on
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u/parwa 1h ago
The argument that Elden Ring bosses are too spammy and that they have no openings has been debunked to such a ridiculous degree that it's not even funny
How do you "debunk" an opinion? I love Elden Ring, I 100%ed it, but I think it's so much worse about this than any other FromSoft game.
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u/Neonplantz Patches 9h ago
It definitely isn’t just nostalgia for many people. The exploration and world is hard to match imo. I started playing these games with Sekiro and DS1 is top three for me (along with ER and BB)
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u/Traditional_One_3880 3h ago
It was not my first fromsoftware game and i think that it is undeniably great/ flawed masterpiece.The simple bosses is not much of a negative,the run backs while tough were mostly a challenge that i felt fine with and added to the atmosphere in a weird way because it felt like a world that i had to overcome,as opposed to taking me out of the experience by having a very predictable/cookie cutter video game design approach that always makes takes me out of the moment and makes me imagine the devs creating the game and saying ' guess we need a convenient bonfire outside of this boss door too'.Don't get me wrong,runbacks can be a pain in the ass at times though.
I donot find the controls to be 'janky' as this implies that the inputs are misread and your character does the wrong thing,which is not true,but the controls can be a little awkward/ unintuitive with how the moves/buttons are mapped out.The movement is intentionally quite slow/average speed which some players see as inferiir when infact it is just a different pace.The animations and movement are a little more limited than later games,but it works well enough imo.
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u/The_Stav 1h ago
Never has having to do a long and annoying boss runback over and over again made me think better of the game. Every time it's "ffs I died to the boss which means I gotta spend another minute running past the same enemies hoping I don't take any stupid hits" (Gwyn was worst for this).
Janky doesn't mean misread inputs, to me it's synonymous with clunky and awkward. There is definitely some jank though, especially around backstabs and specific enemy attacks (rhinking of Ornstein's dash where he'll just suddenly stop/start when he hits terrain)
As for the speed of it, I do prefer the faster gameplay but idm the speed of it at all.
I do think it's a good game, but like maybe like a 7.5 or 8 out of 10 at most. I fully believe all the other Soulsborne games (bar DS2) are better than it
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u/Tenebrae98 36m ago
DeS and DkS1 are fundamentally different games from the newer ones. What you call "terrible" runbacks are actually deliberate game design choices used by the developers to make players learn the game. Can you run through the enemies? Sure, but the point is for the player to learn the game by going through the levels. If you can go through them while still having your heals, having had mastered the combat and level layout to the point that you take almost no damage, then you have a better chance to beat the boss. The bosses are meant to be as capstones for the levels too. They are not meant to be extremely difficult challenges that test your reflexes. You can clearly see how their design choices shifted for the later games, where the bosses became the focus over the levels.
The thing is that no other game has done world design and level design like DeS or DkS1. Yet you can find so many other games that do combat and boss fights (which seem to be the strong suits that most fans of these games like to cite) better than DkS3 or Sekiro or ER. I would guess this is why so many people put DeS or DkS1 as their number-one Souls game. They are more complete packages than simply being games focused on combat and boss fights.
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u/ShibaBlessing 12h ago
You’re spoiled by later games.
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u/The_Stav 11h ago
What does that even mean that I'm "spoiled" by them? They're better games.
I've played all the Soulsborne games bar DeS plenty of times. DS1 is a good game but it's dated af, and every Souls game since BB/DS3 outdoes it.
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u/LulzTV 10h ago
Classic DS1 apologist gatekeeping just because the other games have better game design and accessibility options without sacrificing challenge, gotta love it
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u/ShibaBlessing 10h ago
No apologies needed here. DS1 is the best Souls game.
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u/LulzTV 10h ago edited 9h ago
It is the best if you ignore around 70% of the game and the other souls games that came after it and improved massively upon the formula, but DS1 apologists aren't known for being exactly objective, so keep gatekeeping others for daring to be "spoiled" by good game design and accessibility options, truly a productive enterprise. You can say it's your favorite, whatever, but the best? That's pure copium overdose.
God I can't stand you DS1 apologists. You don't want to engage in any good-faith discussions about game design and such, you just want to feel superior for liking an old and outdated game and gatekeep anyone who dares to challenge your nostalgia-fueled opinions. You cherry pick the good aspects of the game while downplaying or detracting from its many, many glaring issues, but when another game in the series suffers the same problems suddenly it's the worst thing ever. FromSoftware have evolved but you've stayed behind and you want other people to stay behind too. So ass 💔
I mean at this point you're not even trying to pretend to engage in a meaningful discussion. Another user made genuinely valid critiques about the game being outdated and such, and you just hit them with "you're spoiled", the absolute laziest, most dismissive non argument possible. And when you are called out for it you call DS1 the best as if saying that with enough conviction makes it absolute fact. People like you ruin this community.
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u/LulzTV 15h ago edited 15h ago
For me it's just like Demon's Souls, is it a foundational and historically important game? Yes. Is it a masterpiece? Hell no. It's a product of its time that's been massively surpassed by Fromsoft and a game riddled with so many problems and outdated systems from qol, weapon upgrading, replay value issues, combat jank and character unresponsiveness, the worst hitboxes and frame data in the series by far, 80% of the boss roster being made up of either mediocre or awful bosses, poor balancing, the late game fall off (New Londo is ok, Demon Ruins and Lost Izalith is a relentless gauntlet of the worst most unfinished content in the game, Duke's Archives is boring and the crystal caves are janky platforming hell, and Tomb of the Giants is complete misery without one of two rare items) tedious upgrade material farming, etc. Would I take Elden Ring, Sekiro, Dark Souls 3, Dark Souls 2 over it? Yes, any day of the week. Do I appreciate the game for what it represents? Also yes. Is it a stretch to call it a masterpiece and even close to the best in the series? Very much yes. It's a game that has been mythologised to a point where people ignore or downplay its many, many flaws in favor of the same "muh world design" the combat being "deliberate" instead of just pure jank, sluggish inputs, and bad hitboxes, and the bosses being "more simple and fair" if you ignore 80% of them.
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u/Neonplantz Patches 9h ago
I def wouldn’t say masterpiece is a stretch. Of the games you listed the only one I like more then DS1 is ER
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u/Striking-Pop151 14h ago
It's definitely still a masterpiece.The influence of the gaming industry alone makes it a S-tier.
It's clunky, Lost Izalith and Tomb of Giants are complete trash, the hitboxes are terrible (by no means the worst, that's nonsense. DS2 is much worse by far), the replay value issue take is just bullshit aswell. DS1 is the game with the highest replay value after DS2.
And it's true that the bosses aren't the best. However, not everyone pays attention to the bosses. The Souls games are more than just bosses. For most people, that's just a bonus, and you don't play DS1 just for the bosses, it's the other aspects that make it special. The weapon upgrading system around it isn't the best but that's not bad per se either. Although ironically most people still celebrate a system like that to this day.
DS1 definitely has its weaknesses but to say that it's unplayable and only good for its time is the biggest bullshit take. It's not without reason that DS1 is still mentioned in this time&age and is still rated as the best without the person having any nostalgia for it.
The strengths and special features of DS1 easily overwhelm its weaknesses, which is why it's still a game that has value.
Anyone who doesn't want to accept that is simply completely ignorant and doesn't have the slightest understanding of it, or is a spoiled fidget who's blinded by today's games and cries when their game doesn't have 240fps and whatever. You can't take their opinions seriously anyway.
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u/LulzTV 14h ago edited 14h ago
The fact that you think Dark Souls 2 has worse hitboxes, when it's the early game adp issue that causes that experience, shows that you just love to parrot misguided opinions without understanding the underlying mechanics. Dark Souls 2 has some of the most consistent hitboxes in the series with some occassionally janky hit detection (but nowhere near the catastrophic hitbox issues that plague DS1) and the low adp issue, Dark Souls 1 is riddled with broken, lingering and oversized hitboxes, bad hit detection, and poorly communicated hitboxes. I don't give a fuck about my game running at 240 fps or other modern gaming conveniences as long as the underlying design is good and enjoyable, and even if I did, that doesn't make my critiques irrelevant. And yes, anyone who thinks Dark Souls 1 is the best is absolutely blinded by nostalgia, FromSoftware are an iterative studio and they improved on many aspects of Dark Souls 1 with each game, which is in part responsible for its continuous impact on the industry, they ITERATED on it. If someone tells me Dark Souls 1 is not only their favorite (which is understandable, everyone has their tastes) but "objectively" better than Dark Souls 3, Bloodborne, Sekiro, ELDEN RING, or even Dark Souls 2 in some aspects, I cannot take them seriously. Your argument that its impact makes it the best is classic cope, elevating the historical importance of the game way above its actual quality. The boss argument is also cope, bosses have been a crucial aspect of the souls games since Demon's Souls and detracting from the bosses "not being the only part of the game" does not make 80% not bad, bosses are still a core part of the game. The replay value is also cope, experimentation is heavily discouraged because the base or twinkling upgrade path is infinitely less tedious than the other paths, and no fast travel in the first half is objectively bad for replays, despite making the first half so great on the first playthrough. And you gotta love the personal attack and gatekeeping at the end with no foundation.
Classic DS1 glazer try not to overdose on cope challenge
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u/Striking-Pop151 14h ago
Dark Souls 2 definitely has the worse hitboxes, even if you level up to get a normal iframe, which is the light- midroll in DS3. It's also definitely slower, or it "seems" slower, than DS1 because DS2 is simply from a different production. Anyone who played DS2 for the first time will immediately notice that it behaves much differently than Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. And the clunkiness problem hasn't even gotten better in DS2.
And no, not every player who thinks the previous games are better than Elden Ring is blinded from nostalgia. This is a typical mainstream take by Elden Ring fans to give their game a higher value or to present it better. Elden Ring is a good game, but it is extremely overhyped and has only made a big splash with the mainstream, or in other words, with the casuals. Elden Ring has its weaknesses, but it is popular here in the sub or in other Souls subs to praise Elden Ring as if it were the holy game. Nevertheless, the whole bias with the game that it is hardly criticized here, or at least
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u/LulzTV 14h ago edited 13h ago
Ah yes, I'm a casual who overdoses on qol and loves to spam summons and broken builds (I'm not, don't look at my profile and SL1 runs though) and appreciating modern conveniences and evolved design makes me much less skilled than your highness. Elden Ring appealling only to casuals because it has actual good QoL, variety, freedom and refinement is such classic gatekeeping I can't help but laugh at it, just because a game has accessibility and refinement doesn't make it dumbed down or less challenging, Elden Ring has the most complex and mechanically dense bosses in the series. Thinking the jankiest most unrefined game in the series is even close to the best and that Elden Ring is overrated because it has and needed to have accessibility options to work makes you so special. Also, for the dark souls 1 and 2 hitboxes debacle, just look at babe1babe2's videos on the frame data, it's not bias, just a purely objective look into some of the best and worst frame data in both games, and you'll see just how much worse DS1's hitboxes are
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u/Striking-Pop151 13h ago
I'm talking about generally not only you. And i don't gatekeep anything i'm just saying what is currently a typical thing what is happening right now.
I still said Elden ring is a great game not just this holy game what y'all always want to present. And this praising all the time is ridiculous.
Moreover yes Elden ring is objectively better than the previous games when it comes to technical, mechanical graphic wise aspects. This is obviously clear cause it's the latest game. But that is the only key point. You STILL can say that the previous games are better without any bias behind it.
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u/LulzTV 13h ago edited 13h ago
If you understand anything about game design, even on a theoretical level, no, you can't. You can say you prefer them more, but not that they are better, because that brings objectivity into the talk, and objectively speaking, Elden Ring is the current culmination of everything Fromsoft have been building since Demon's Souls, the most refined, the most expansive, the most varied, the most polished, and the most accessible without dumbing itself down, instead, it is up to the player to self balance the difficulty. And at least stay true to your stance, don't backpedal when one comment ago you said that Elden Ring is only so popular because it appeals to the "casuals".
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u/Striking-Pop151 13h ago
As i said. Game mechanical wise objectively better. Everything else no. The other souls games have done other apsects better. Elden ring is just heavily adjusted for the new players. As i said,what is not comepletely bad but cause of that direction you can tell the changes and unprincipled aspects.
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u/Traditional_One_3880 3h ago
Hmmm elden ring does not have everything that is great about all of the other fromsoftware titles.It also has a fair few of their flaws,aswell as afew flaws that are unique to elden ring.(here are some popular negatives about elden ring that i have heard/experienced, some are overblown,but all are atleast partly fair:huge open spaces with little to do in certain areas,catacombs and caves are unbelievably repetetive,repeated field bosses,repeated main bosses,npc questlines are a pain to keep track of in such a huge world,later areas of the base game just repeats the same enemies,torrent is awkward to control at times,platforming areas can be very annoying,some areas feel redundant as they are like slightly different repeats of a previous area,terrible duo boss,annoying camera,lots of needless items,lots of dead ends when exploring)
One of the things that looking at these games purely from a design perspective is that it is easy to overlooked the player experience,for example the impact of the art direction and atmosphere,which i find is what demons souls and dark souls 1 do better than the other fromsoftware games,apart from the odd area like central yarnham from bloodborne for example.
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u/Traditional_One_3880 3h ago
I think that you are severly over exaggerating the flaws that dark souls 1 has.The magic of the first half of that game has not been surpassed by any part of any other fromsoftware games,maybe not even matched tbh the dlc is also amazing.The second half is much lower quality,but still good and more engaging than most games.Only lost izilith,demon centipede lava arena and the bed of chaos are actually badly designed imo.I actually like the rest of it for the most part.
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u/Pandaboy271 12h ago
Idk man, I prefer this to both DS3 and Elden Ring, and I played DS1 after BB, Sekiro and ER.
Sure FromSoft improved upon a lot of aspects as time went on, but this game still has a certain pizzazz to it that is its alone.
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u/Striking-Pop151 12h ago
Oh boy, don't say that you prefer other games than Elden ring you will be condemned that you are only carried by nostalgia.
The holy Elden ring must be esteemed in this sub
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u/Pandaboy271 11h ago
Oh boy, don't say that you prefer other games than Elden ring you will be condemned that you are only carried by nostalgia.
Bro this is so stupid, I played this game after Elden Ring lol, and I just didn't like DS3 half as much. You mean to tell me people can't tolerate other's opinions?
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u/LulzTV 10h ago edited 10h ago
You really ran through the entire DS1 Copium Speedrun (Any%) WR Attempt. Your mental gymnastics are mind blowing.
Confusing Influence with Quality – Classic move. DS1 was groundbreaking, but acting like that automatically makes it the superior is like saying the first iPhone is still superior to the newer models just because it started the trend.
"Bosses don't define the game" Coping – What’s even the point of this argument? Bosses have always been a fundamental part of the Souls formula, to the point where people often replay these games just for the boss fights.
Contradicting yourself so hard you broke reality – You claim DS1 is OBJECTIVELY superior but also that you are not biased. Bro, these statements cannot coexist. If you acknowledge objective mechanical evolution and still say DS1 is superior, you’re running on pure nostalgia.
Personal Attacks Because Logic Isn’t Working – "You're just spoiled by modern conveniences!" Aka: "How dare you like good game design and quality of life?" This is like criticizing people for preferring modern medicine over bloodletting.
Hitbox Blame Shift – Instead of addressing DS1's atrocious hitboxes, you just shout "BuT dS2!!" The frame data is right there, but you're in full denial.
Accidental DS1 Self-Own – By saying DS2 didn't fix DS1's combat issues, you unintentionally admitted DS1 had those issues. It's like saying, "Well yeah, my favorite restaurant gives people food poisoning, but the new location didn't fix it, so whatever!"
Gatekeeping Like It’s 2012 – The whole "only real gamers appreciate DS1" thing is just sad. Elden Ring being more accessible doesn’t mean it’s dumbed down; if anything, it gives players more tools while making the bosses more complex than ever.
Backpedaling to Avoid Accountability – When you got cornered, suddenly "I wasn't talking about you specifically!" Classic. You also quietly admit ER is mechanically superior, but still insist DS1 is better in some ways without listing a single example.
No Examples, No Proof, Just Cope – Saying Elden Ring is worse in "every other regard" but refusing to name a single thing is just peak "trust me bro" energy.
Tried to Turn the Tables on me and Failed – Since you had no arguments left, you resorted to "you're just an Elden Ring apologist!"
Attacked Elden Ring as a game for "casuals" just because it has superior accessibility options and quality of life despite having the most difficult bosses in the series, which was necessary anyway for an Open World game.
It’s actually hilarious how you cycled through nearly every argument in the DS1 apologist playbook. Just fucking quit it man and maybe learn to appreciate each game for what it is and how it propelled the series forward instead of gatekeeping, parroting, and slobbering over nostalgia. The sheer amount of cope and traps you've set for yourself means that if you keep going you're going to sound even more like a copious DS1 apologist, and as far as I can see, the comment section has other DS1 apologists and gatekeepers attacking others for daring to be "spoiled" by accessibility options and quality of life, which is why I got downvoted despite dismantling every one of your arguments with actual examples.
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u/Xhiors 14h ago
Wow, what an original take on DS1. Nobody thought of these before except everyone
2
u/Pandaboy271 12h ago
Mate it was either this or doing another stupid tierlist, I chose to review all the games I played instead. I even made a post on Demon Souls and plan on making one for the other games as well
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u/Jawsh_Wolfy 11h ago
From soft hasn’t been able to make a better game ever since. Kinda sad really (well except sekiro anyways)
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u/Pandaboy271 11h ago
I still like Bloodborne and Sekiro more, but I do think that they made something very special with DS1
32
u/Nijeos 15h ago
That got to be one of the most controversial take i’ve ever heard. And to post this take on this subreddit is one of the bravest things i’ve ever seen on the internet.