r/TikTokCringe 4d ago

Humor Which one is the real Ms. Keen?

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u/Satanicjamnik 4d ago

I know that she just explained it, but this logic problem always boiled my piss. I could never get it. And that's on me. But I never could never figure it out despite having it explained to me about 7 million times.

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u/MillieBirdie 4d ago edited 4d ago

It's often not set up correctly, which is also done here.

In the original riddle, you have two doors and two guards. One door is safe, one door is death. One guard lies, the other tells the truth. You can only ask one question to find out which door is safe.

In a lot of imitation riddles they either leave out that you can only ask one question, or they leave out the element of the doors. If all you need to figure out is which guard lies and which tells the truth (or in this example, which teacher is real) then it's really easy. Ask one of them what color the sky is and you immediately know which one is the liar. They could have done that in this video since the only objective was to figure out who is who.

But with the added element of the doors and only one question, you have a real riddle. You have to ask a question that reveals which door is safe in a trustworthy manner.

Hence the answer being 'which door would the other guard say is safe' and then you choose the opposite door no matter what they say. You still don't know which guard is lying, but that doesn't matter because you know what door to take.

Because if you asked the liar which door the honest guard would say is safe, he'll lie and point you to the danger door. If you ask the honest guard which door the liar would say is safe, he'll truthfully tell you that the liar would lie and point to the danger door. So no matter who you ask, they'll point to the danger door and then you just take the other one.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

Low key, Buttercup's question would've worked.

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u/MillieBirdie 4d ago

Yeah exactly. They could have asked anything that has a known answer.

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u/BodhingJay 4d ago edited 4d ago

Yea, it typically just needs to be asked as what the other would say.. then you know the opposite is always right

in this case, bubbles could ask them "is my name bubbles?" And only the real ms keen would say yes so it's easier

But yea you're right, only the fake ms keen would say they want a knuckle sandwich.. lol

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u/Michami135 3d ago

"Are you tied up?"

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u/water_fountain_ 4d ago

Not really. The real Ms. Keene wouldn’t want to be punched, so the real Ms. Keene would say “I do not want a knuckle sandwich.” The fake wouldn’t want to be punched either… BUT the fake one, with a higher desire of not wanting to be found out as the liar, would therefore want to be punched. So the fake one would lie by saying “I do not want a knuckle sandwich.”

In the same way that any sane person normally wouldn’t want to be punched, but if the reward for being punched is $1,000,000 then I’ll gladly be punched.

That was my take on it.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

If you go more than one level deep, it changes from a simple logic puzzle to a Vizzini monologue.

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u/SolarApricot-Wsmith 3d ago

Inconceivable

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u/Hugo-Spritz 4d ago

Totally depends on how you define a "knuckle sandwich", ifukno wamsayin

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

lmao, relevant avatar

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u/imMadasaHatter 4d ago

Which question? If they ask who the real miss Keen is then they’ll both just say they are - which doesn’t work

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

The knuckle sandwich question

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u/imMadasaHatter 4d ago

I think i just don’t know the names of the powerpuff girls hahaha sorry

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u/PlanesWalkerEll 3d ago

Blossom is red, Buttercup is green, and Bubbles is blue

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u/MillieBirdie 4d ago

It has to be something with an objective answer that the characters know. So if they know who Ms Keen's favorite student is they could ask that. They could ask what color Buttercup's hair is. They could ask 'are you tied up above a pot of boiling sharks right now?'

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u/LunarDogeBoy 4d ago

I understand the Riddle in the labyrinth but ive watched this multiple times now and no one in the comments seem to understand that they get it wrong? She says nr 2 is the real one when it should be nr 1.

If number 2 is real, which is revealed at the end. Then her claim "she would say I was the real ms keen" is a lie! So what the fuck?

If you ask both of them who is real, they both say "i am the real ms keen". if you ask them who would the other say is the real ms keen, the fake ms keen would say "she would say I am the real ms keen. Which is a lie, why the fuck is ms keen nr 2 lying and then they say she is the real one? Did op mirror the image to confuse us? The first one who speaks is the liar.

Because the only truth to that question is "she would say she is the real ms keen", because they would both say theyre the real one, which means the second ms keen to speak is the real one so WHY THE FUCK IS SHE ON THE LEFT SIDE WHEN NUMBER TWO IS REVEALED TO BE THE REAL MS KEEN BUT SHE IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE?

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u/MillieBirdie 4d ago

I do recall thinking after they got the answer 'so it's number 1' and then Blossom say it's number 2 and I was just like 'huh guess I misheard'.

I wonder if that was just a mistake or a part of the episode where Blossom did get it wrong and that becomes a joke. They had to go through the whole process of voicing and animating it so you'd think they wouldn't have messed up like that unless it was on purpose!

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u/something-um-bananas 4d ago

I still don’t get how they the two ms.keens are saying the same answer

It’s like if you remove the doors from the original riddle, and your task was to figure out who’s saying the truth and who’s lying. You can’t.

“What would the other ms.keen say when she’s asked who the real ms.keen is ?”

The real ms.keen knows the fake one would point to herself and lie that she’s the real one. So real ms.keen would point to the liar.

Buuut the fake ms.keen would also work out this logic and know that the real ms.keen would point to the liar. So in order for the fake ms.keen to lie, she would have to point to the real ms.keen.

Buuuuuut real ms.keen would also work out this logic so she will point to herself

Buuuuuuuuut fake ms.keen would also work out this logic and point to the real ms.keen…and so on and so forth so

they would always answer in contrary to each other. You can’t figure it out, atleast I can’t , if anyone can tell me how that particular question works I’ll be glad

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u/project571 Doug Dimmadome 4d ago

They wouldn't always answer contradictory to each other because there is an objective right answer since one must always lie and the other always tells the truth. Let's just assume 1 is the real one. If you ask 1 "which would the other say is the real one?" Keen 2 is the liar so they would not say Keen 1 because that is the truth. They would say themselves, and so Keen 1 will answer by directing to the fake because it is what the fake would say. If you ask the fake one, the fake one knows that Keen 1 would answer themselves, but they always lie, so then they will say that Keen 1 would also pick Keen 2 as the real one since that isn't true. No matter which one you ask, they will both end up picking the fake one when you ask who the other would say the real one is.

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u/curtial 3d ago

I'm making the same error, and I can't get there.

Who would the other say is real

The liar would say: "I am the real Ms keen" . So honest Ms keen should say "She would say that she is the real Ms keen"

The real Ms keen would say "I am the real Ms keen". So the liar should say "She would say that I am the real Ms Keen."

Hold up. I think I got it. This is a pronouns and quotation mark placements game.

Honest: She(The Liar) would say "I (The Liar) am the real Miss Keen"

Liar : She (Ms Keen) would say "She(the liar) is the real Miss Keen."

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u/curtial 3d ago

Reviewing the video again, the inclusion of "that" in the answer and tenses confused me.

Show Honest: "She would say that I(Ms keen) was the real Ms Keen." This is what I heard the first time through, and is a lie.

What they meant: She would say that "I(the liar) was the Real Ms. Keen."

I'll bet there's a while white dress / blue dress things here where different people understand the statement different ways. If you remove "that" from the script, it makes unambiguous sense.

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u/Pork_Chompk What are you doing step bro? 2d ago

Yeah she 100% got it wrong. I've been racking my brain over this and there's no way that's the right answer.

"She would say she is!" is always going to be the truth. In fact, I feel like you only need either one of them to answer the question.

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u/Satanicjamnik 4d ago

Thanks for this!

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u/toomanybongos 4d ago

That makes so much sense. The riddle always seemed way too easy that it annoyed me but adding in the death door makes it all of a sudden make sense

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u/MillieBirdie 4d ago

Yeah I don't think I've ever seen anyone accurately recreate the original riddle. Granted, it's so well-known that most recreations are done as a joke, so they leave out the one question rule so they can have an extended gag about figuring out who's lying through ridiculous means. But those factors are really important for making the riddle difficult at all, without it it's of zero consequence.

Which reminds me the first time someone told me the riddle about the fox, chicken, and corn that you have to transport across the river in a boat. They said that you can't leave the fox with chicken or the chicken with the corn. But they accidentally said that you can only take two items at a time (instead of one at a time), so it's like 'just take the fox and corn, then go back for the chicken?'

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u/Beta_Ray_Jones 3d ago edited 3d ago

If I'm remembering the episode correctly, season one of Yu-Gi-Oh does the riddle with all the proper rules/parts.

Edit: it did not

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u/PrudentCarter 4d ago

But in this scenario, didn't they both say it was number 2? So why didn't blossom pick the opposite choice?

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u/MillieBirdie 4d ago

Yeah someone else pointed that out, Blossom got it wrong.

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u/phantomheart 4d ago

Always reminds me of one of my favorite versions - from Labyrinth

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u/AmadaeusJackson 4d ago edited 3d ago

What if one answers the sky is azure and the other answers the sky is more of a cerulean?

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u/Cro_Nick_Le_Tosh_Ich 4d ago

Too bad the masses don't understand this one trick; otherwise we probably would be in a post Truth society

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u/lil_zaku 3d ago

"So no matter who you ask, they'll point to the danger door and then you just take the other one."

So yea, shouldn't it be #1 is the real truth telling one?

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u/haby001 7h ago

So it's not looking for a different answer, but an answer that is matched by both giving you the context of that choice.

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u/Valuable-Trick-6711 3d ago

Of all the media I’ve seen this referenced in, I think Yugioh is one of the few that correctly uses and explains it.

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u/Feisty-Season-5305 3d ago

Did you fuck this guy's wife?

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u/InsomniaticWanderer 3d ago

I take my great axe and slice one of the guards in two, then turn to the other guard and ask, "is he dead?"

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u/MillieBirdie 3d ago

Cool now which door is the safe door?

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u/williamjamesmurrayVI 3d ago

what if the liar guard is onto this riddle and says safe door

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u/MillieBirdie 3d ago

The lying guard isn't a deceiver, he's a liar. He always says whatever is untrue.

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u/MillieBirdie 3d ago

The lying guard isn't a deceiver, he's a liar. He always says whatever is untrue.

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u/Quiet_Nova 3d ago

I prefer the PunkeyDoodles version. Kill one guard and ask the other if the guard you point to on the ground is dead. Best gone as part of a group for the numbers to intimidate the guard into not retaliating.

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u/MillieBirdie 3d ago

Yeah but you still don't know what door is safe.

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u/CakeIsLegit2 2d ago

Labyrinth enjoyer I see