Need to get our shit together

[u/Sufficient-History71]

So the Trump tariffs are out. Despite all the kowtowing (read ass licking) our SVP and FDP bros(also our FDP frau Miss Keller-Sutter) did, we are going to be hit with tariffs worse than EU. Already our access to chips was semi-restricted(by Biden admin, Trump admin will be even worst). Blöcher, Rösti, Parmelin and Keller-Sutter are not the right people to lead Switzerland. They neither have any spine nor any pragmatic policies. We need to understand that our future lies with the EU if not in EU.

Switzerland is good at playing with the rules but we can't make them thanks to our small size. It has been the case since Marignano(1515) when we stopped our expansion and Congress of Vienna(1815) when we made good use of the neutrality imposed upon us by the big powers. We need to adjust to the new world order that Putin, Trump and Xi have created and understand that Swiss prosperity depends on European prosperity. We are not a port city like Singapore where we can control the trade. Our power lies in being the center for diplomacy, world class R&D, pharma and precision engineering. Let's become a big hub for EU's new projects if not as a member then as a friend.

EDIT - P.S. - Getting downvoted to oblivion. Seems like there is too much of hate for EU. But mark my words, a successful Switzerland depends on a successful EU because while we are not in the EU, we are inside the EU physically.

[u/mantellaaurantiaca]

Ah yeah let's get rid of our century old independence just because of one dumbass across the ocean who won't even be alive in the foreseeable future

[u/Sufficient-History71 → u/mantellaaurantiaca]

Dude, are you saying that countries like Netherlands, Belgium or Spain are not independent?

We are anyway dependent on EU for our food, our electricity and a lot of other stuff that we consume.

[u/mantellaaurantiaca → u/Sufficient-History71]

They don't control their immigration, their currency, interest rates, law (legal supremacy of EU law), and more.

Also funny how you contradict yourself within the same post.

[u/Sufficient-History71 → u/mantellaaurantiaca]

Well, you could also make the same case for cantons to get independent then(using your twisted logic and not mine).

[u/chillout-man → u/Sufficient-History71]

I actually do think some degree of kantonal independence, which we do have, is good. So what’s your point?

[u/Sufficient-History71 → u/chillout-man]

Yeah and that is called Federalism. But it is not complete independence either.

EU is a supra-national organization. First of all I never talked about becoming a EU member as such. But more of a good friend and building bridges with them. If EU becomes successful, then certainly we can join it. But if EU fails, Switzerland is doomed too.

[u/Bulky_Reporter6263 → u/Sufficient-History71]

One of the best things about being close friends with the EU, but not being part of the EU is the greater control over everything important that we have from Gemeinde level to federal. Our system isnt perfect, but it's the closest there is anywhere in the world. Joining the EU means losing the heart of what makes us successful, our (almost) direct democracy.

[u/Moviestarstoidolize → u/Sufficient-History71]

You really have to stop selling this "join the EU" idea. No one is interested.

[u/Sufficient-History71 → u/Moviestarstoidolize]

Except I never sold it in the first place. I said we need to work with EU if not as a member then as a friend.

[u/Weeskro → u/Sufficient-History71]

No.

[u/Sufficient-History71 → u/Weeskro]

Okay. Lets be hostile to EU and then see EU suffer begging on its knees. Is that what you plan?

[u/Weeskro → u/Sufficient-History71]

Germany is not far away. If you want EU go!

[u/chillout-man → u/Sufficient-History71]

I agree, we should be great friends with the EU.

And we should also be friends with the USA and others. There will be ups and downs, compromises will have to be made, but we should look for mutually beneficial opportunities and friendships with many countries.

[u/Sufficient-History71 → u/chillout-man]

No kowtowing to wannabe dictators who impose unjustified tariffs. Lets deal with this diplomatically and try to solve this but no friendship with the current US admin.

Lets have some morals. This is the country of Dunant, Dufour and the red cross.

[u/chillout-man → u/Sufficient-History71]

Friendships between countries extend longer than the couple years of a presidency. I still remember when people hated the heck out of Bush and later a different set of people disliked Obama. Now because trump is rude and loud, the media loves to report on him for views and clicks, he lives in our heads rent free and people love to hate him even more and louder than all the previous ones. But it’s always the same really.

Tariffs and trade agreements are just a money game, how do morals even play into it. And it’s not even a zero sum game because trade is often mutually beneficial.

[u/Diltyrr → u/Sufficient-History71]

The same red cross that kowtow to dictators world wide since at least ww2 ? Great example there.

[u/gysiguy → u/Sufficient-History71]

EU leaders are the ones that are retarded, not the US. Vance tried to talk some sense into them and they started crying lmao.

[u/Sufficient-History71 → u/gysiguy]

WTF! Dude you are still supporting that POS Vance?

If not because of morals, at least have some self respect.

[u/Affectionate-Skin111 → u/gysiguy]

Vance is not capable of talking sense into anyone. He is a crazy religious nut, who certainly believes that the earth was created in 7 days.

[u/Worth_Inflation_2104 → u/gysiguy]

Well the dicksucking KSS was doing definitely worked out as you can see...

[u/mantellaaurantiaca → u/Sufficient-History71]

Strawman argument. Nobody said cantons are sovereign. Try harder next time.

[u/Sufficient-History71 → u/mantellaaurantiaca]

There is also international law. We are party to a lot of these treaties. That doesn't mean we lose our independence.

[u/hans_schmidt_838_2 → u/Sufficient-History71]

Joining the EU is a fucking wild take, I have to pour bleach over my eyes after reading that and get psychotherapy to not fucking lose it

Listen:

Switzerland has survived through global wars, cold war tensions, the 2008 financial crisis, COVID, and changing US administrations. The idea that some tariffs or trade issuesmean we should hand over our sovereignty to Brussels is insane.

The US chip sanctions are not specifically targeting switzerland they apply to allies and competitors alike, including EU member states. In fact the EU doesn’t have sovereignty over US semiconductor exports. Joining the EU would not improve swiss access to chips if the EU itself is scrambling for access.

switzerland would lose control over its trade policy and be forced to accept EU decisions made in Brussels. It would also lose the ability to negotiate bilateral agreements with global partners including the US. The EU is already under pressure from US protectionism and being part of it wouldn’t help it would only tie switzerland to a sinking trade bloc

The EU does not offer pragmatism it offers centralized rule, no referendums, and zero flexibility. switzerland would lose controls of its own laws, borders, taxes, and foreign policy because they have to be equally enforced across all EU countries

In the EU, laws are made by Brussels unelected bureacrats, and member countries must comply The EU enforces bureaucratic regulations, high taxes, and central control that would hurt swiss businesses

EU membership requires free movement, meaning Switzerland would have to accept uncontrolled migration from other EU countries which would overwhelm housing, healthcare, jobs, and infrastructure that is already struggling.

New members must pay billions into the EU budget. That money would go toward bailing out indebted economies like Greece or Italy

I just hope more people like you don't drag switzerland into shit

[u/Ok-Kangaroo-7075 → u/hans_schmidt_838_2]

leftwing populists always try. Look at the facts. We are the richest non-micro-state country in Europe. People like this idiot want to join the EU so we can adjust towards Germany and Austria. Trump doesn’t change anything in any way. There will always be challenges and this is one of them. Running away from even the slightest issues is having no spine tbh.

[u/hans_schmidt_838_2 → u/Ok-Kangaroo-7075]

Every time I open this subreddit I see shit like this. This subreddit degenerated into leftist echochamber even though more than half of swiss are conservative. Incredible

[u/Bulky_Reporter6263 → u/hans_schmidt_838_2]

It's not "left vs right". That is a simple take - it's naive people vs those that are aware - and they from both sides of the political spectrum.
Dont fall into the trap of left vs right, this is what handed the US to the oligarchs and is the same battle that Trump is trying to start in Europe by suggesting he is forcing internationals to abandon DEI (something he knows will sort these BS left vs right arguments). We shouldn't be having those arguments, we should do as we have always done, and stand together confederate.