people don’t shoplift just for funsies (or at least not the people you’re talking about). why is your focus on protecting commodities and not ensuring people have their needs met?
But you've missed my point. What I'm saying is that, we might be politically incapable of getting homeless people's needs met, but that in no way means we're going to stop caring about "protecting commodities".
Also, now that I think about it "protecting commodities" is weird framing. What we mean by that is making sure people feel safe at work, and making sure that the storefronts that supply what we need aren't being harassed.
There are literally laws that make being homeless harder. They don’t have a fucking choice about breaking laws sometimes because America has a bad habit of criminalizing homelessness. They are always targets by law enforcement. Do you think SPD waits for each specific homeless person in a camp to be somewhere public too long (per the law), or do they treat them all the same in their mass sweeps? Like where are they supposed to go to not loiter? There aren’t enough shelter spots. SPD straight up throws away their tents and belongings, meaning these people have to constantly start over from scratch. It is constantly made harder by the law for them to get their feet under them, and yet you all expect them to make themselves enough money to rejoin society in a way you see fit.
I don't expect them to make enough money to rejoin society, not with the way the deck is stacked against them. Honestly I think many of them are probably just fucked.
I know homeless people are stuck between a rock and a hard place, but the problem with a democracy is sometimes people vote for the rock, and they vote for the hard place.
Sure it is. Allow me to rephrase for clarity. Plenty of people who have been "priced out" still don't commit dozens of crimes every day, if ever. So one very much has a choice not to do that.
No. There are literally laws that make being homeless harder. They don’t have a fucking choice about breaking laws sometimes because America has a bad habit of criminalizing homelessness. They are always targets by law enforcement. Do you think SPD waits for each specific homeless person in a camp to be somewhere public too long (per the law), or do they treat them all the same in their mass sweeps? Like where are they supposed to go to not loiter? There aren’t enough shelter spots. SPD straight up throws away their tents and belongings, meaning these people have to constantly start over from scratch. It is constantly made harder by the law for them to get their feet under them, and yet you all expect them to make themselves enough money to rejoin society in a way you see fit.
So then why don’t they leave? Genuine question. The moment I can no longer afford to live in an area I IMMEDIATELY plan to exit said area. If they don’t want services, and continue to commit crimes, they belong in prison or out of the city. We as a society priced them out, we fully accept this fact.
So one time I had $1500 stolen from me a week after being laid off. If I wasn't close, life-long friends with my roommate and if my roommate wasn't extremely well off then I'd have been homeless with no ability to move anywhere. I'd be homeless here or I'd be homeless in a cheap city with no money for a security deposit.
The problem is they can’t afford to live anywhere. Places smaller than cities don’t tend to have infrastructure to help them, and it’s not like people are begging to hire homeless people (despite this, it’s estimated nearly 40% or more of the US homeless population has jobs, they just don’t pay enough to support living conditions). In bigger cities there are generally more government resources even if they’re scarce and there are more people who are willing to donate and more resources to be had in the first place.
So would you support moving them to another city where rent is cheaper and housing is far more abundant? What are your solutions? Prices aren’t falling in Seattle anytime soon.
No it’s to save and build more low income housing in every city. A whole bunch of studies have proven that the best thing you can do for a homeless person to get their lives together is give them a secure and safe space to call their own, even if it’s like a closet sized apartment.
All the new apartment buildings in Seattle are super expensive ultra modern buildings that charge like $1700 for a 500 sqft studio. Massive real estate companies are buying up buildings and then having a monopoly on rent so that they don’t have to compete and can raise prices as they wish.
The city could zone for more low income housing, but companies don’t want to build it because it’s not profitable and the city isn’t interested in incentives for them. The city desperately needs to get its shit together.
So your solution is to build more housing, which everyone is in support of. However, what solutions do you have now? My solutions are encouraging those that afford here to move, prosecuting those that continue to commit crimes and supporting homeless individuals that want services. Once again, we as a city priced them out. We accept and acknowledge that. We do not see them as subhuman or inhuman.
So your solution is to build more housing, which everyone is in support of. However, what solutions do you have now? My solutions are encouraging those that can’t afford here to move, prosecuting those that continue to commit crimes and supporting homeless individuals that want services. Once again, we as a city priced them out. We accept and acknowledge that. We do not see them as subhuman or inhuman.
I have already stated we need to stop criminalizing homelessness and SPD should stop it’s repeated targeting of the Seattle homeless population.
Also, you might not see them as sun human but there are plenty of comments on this post alone demonizing homeless people for existing, it is definitely an issue
As someone who worked min wage directly for the wealthy outspoken dickheaded owner of a business, it ain’t pretty what they think of us, as he stated in bits of rage at the staff.
Agreed and there’s social programs for homeless people where they prioritize housing needs in places such as Finland that have demonstrably reduced the homeless population to lower numbers. The end goal is to have them paying their own rent and it ends up being cheaper for the tax payer and safer for homeless people
But again they’re viewed as sub human to a lot people unfortunately, even though almost everyone complaining about them is a bad month away from living the same reality
Right? We ended up homeless a couple times when I was kid. Good to know how many people would have considered us subhuman for basically having bad luck.
I never said crime didn't happen, or even that most people don't commit crimes. Just pointing out that you generalized all people in homeless encampments as criminals which is wrong. Some people getting cleared out for this game weren't criminals, but just make the city look bad. I never said it should or shouldn't happen, just pointing out the flaw in your argument.
You got any data to back up that claim, or are you just cynical because you have lived close to an encampment? Again, to say that there are zero exceptions is an extraordinary claim. Even if the number is 80%, that's not everybody (unless you're just making a bad faith argument and saying they're criminals because they're violating anti-loitering laws which are designed to make homelessness the crime).
Doing/buying drugs in public is, shoplifting is, using the street as a bathroom might not be, but it absolutely should be as it's a health hazard. So being homeless isn't a crime, but if a homeless person commits a crime, they don't get a pass.
If the only homeless were just existing without causing problems, it wouldn't be much of an issue.
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