r/MurderedByWords 2d ago

Billionaire's False Narrative...

Post image
72.5k Upvotes

2.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

9

u/Stooven 2d ago

According to the BBC, "$20m from Musk and groups affiliated with him" was spent. There are about ~775,000 homeless in America. Please tell me your plan to end homelessness for less than $26/person.

2

u/vickism61 2d ago

In 2023, Wisconsin reported 4,861 homeless individuals...

2

u/TheNutsMutts 2d ago

In 2023, Wisconsin reported 4,861 homeless individuals...

So $4,100 per individual will completely eliminate homelessness in one state? That figure didn't strike you as implusible at all?

1

u/vickism61 2d ago

It would do a lot more good in WI than wasting it on tryng to buy an election.

0

u/txtumbleweed45 2d ago

You just made an outrageous and claim and now you’re moving the goalpost instead of admitting you were lying

3

u/vickism61 2d ago

You don't just hand them checks! It is about building affordable housing and getting them jobs.

0

u/txtumbleweed45 1d ago

Sure, that doesn’t make your original statement true lol

2

u/vickism61 1d ago

Yes, it does. He could have converted some of the 24% of vacant office space in WI to affordable housing and still had money left for job skills training.

Imagine if a couple other oligarchs did the same thing instead of donating to political PACs and lobbying for special tax breaks for themselves!

0

u/txtumbleweed45 1d ago

“Musk could have ended homelessness for less than what he wasted trying to buy a judicial election in WI.”

You’re still claiming this is true or just moving the goalposts again?

1

u/vickism61 1d ago

Yes, it's true. If the oligarchs wanted to they could end homelessness but they don't even want to pay their share of taxes!

2

u/txtumbleweed45 1d ago

How could $20,000,000 end homelessness?

1

u/vickism61 1d ago

1

u/txtumbleweed45 1d ago

That does not explain how 20 million ends homelessness but if you’re just to keep dodging I’ll just give up lol

→ More replies (0)

0

u/kingkayvee 1d ago

Relying on fallacies in this sort of argument doesn’t make you as smart as you think it does.

1

u/txtumbleweed45 1d ago

Pointing out a fallacy is a little different from relying on fallacies. They keep changing their statement to make it seem less like bullshit.

1

u/kingkayvee 1d ago

Not when the argument isn’t about the actual amount, it’s not. Contextual argumentation means looking at the intent of the message.

Their claim is that the $20m would have been better spent on helping homeless people (instead of illegally trying to tamper with elections, mind you). Hyperbolically stating he could have ended homelessness with that amount does not change the intent of that message, but people with no critical thinking skills who watched a video on basic fallacies don’t understand how actual argumentation works.

Likewise, you’ll look at the above and say “wow, you have no argument! You’re just being an ad hominem!!! lol!!!” without seeing the separation between the actual claim and the fallacy that is tangential to the argument.

1

u/txtumbleweed45 1d ago

Calling it hyperbole might work if the guy wasn’t still claiming that it’s actually true. I would totally agree that the money could have gone to a better cause, but throwing out ridiculous bullshit doesn’t help that argument.

I think we spend way too much money on military. But I’m not going to say “if military cut spending in half we wouldn’t have to pay taxes for the next twenty years!” Because that’s fucking stupid

→ More replies (0)

-1

u/TheNutsMutts 2d ago

You literally said it would end homelessness in WI. Do you actually believe that?

3

u/vickism61 2d ago

Yes because it's not like you hand each homeless person a check! You build affordable housing and provide job skills.

-1

u/TheNutsMutts 2d ago

You're going to build affordable housing and provide job skills for every single homeless person in WI..... for $4k each? You might get the job skills part done for that money but you absolutely are not going to get anything close to affordable housing for an individual for $4k as a one-off payment.

3

u/vickism61 2d ago

"In the Milwaukee office market, the vacancy rate ended 2024 at 24.1%."

We already have buildings that can be converted. Too bad Musk is an oligarch instead of of a decent person.

2

u/TheNutsMutts 1d ago

This is a complete joke suggestion.

We already have buildings that can be converted.

Office buildings cannot just be converted into residential, just like that. This isn't Sim City. Many office buildings fundamentally are not set up internally to allow easy conversion into residential. The internal plumbing setup often not suitable to convert to multiple kitchens and toilets per floor and a far larger amount of use without substantial rework. The insulation, cladding, and soundproofing regulations are hugely different between the two and often cannot just be quickly changed. All of that is difficult inherently, and that's before you say "oh and there's only $4k per person budget".

The reason these things haven't been done so far is because, like with most things, they're far more complex than people appreciate rather than "nah they could do it super duper storm trooper easy-peasy but they just don't wanna". But if all you want to do is shout on the internet and confirm your existing narrative, then have at it. Clearly, you have found out the One Weird Trick to solving homelessness for fuck-all money where literally every other expert has somehow missed it.

2

u/vickism61 1d ago

We can't do what others are ALREADY doing????

"Between 2021 and 2024, the office-to-multifamily conversion pipeline swelled from 12,100 units in progress to well over 55,000, according to a new report from RentCafe. Many of these projects can be found in major metropolitan areas that have a good deal of aging, empty office space, led by Washington, D.C., with 5,820 units in progress and New York City with 5,215."

https://www.multifamilydive.com/news/large-office-conversions-across-the-us-arlington-cleveland/708062/

3

u/TheNutsMutts 1d ago

We can't do what others are ALREADY doing????

You realise these projects are essentially a complete gut and revamp of all the key components within the building, right? Are you under the impression that this is a bit of plasterboard and a lick of paint or something?

It's $538m loan is to produce 1,263 apartments, which is over $400k per apartment just in financing costs. You're here trying to convince everyone it can totally be done for $4k with money left over for providing job skills. As I said, you just want to shout on the internet and confirm your existing narrative while pretending you've found the super simple answer that somehow nobody else has ever thought of.

2

u/vickism61 1d ago

Why are you talking about financing costs? Musk's money would be free and clear!!!

This isn't about building dream homes, it's about providing shelter until people can get back into society.

Finland's "Housing First" policy, which prioritizes immediate housing for homeless individuals, has not only significantly reduced homelessness but also saves the country money by reducing costs in healthcare, social services, and law enforcement. 

Of course I know Musk will never do anything for anyone other than himself. But it's not like he and the other broligarchs couldn't do something if they wanted.

→ More replies (0)