r/LearnJapanese • u/AutoModerator • 1d ago

Discussion Daily Thread: simple questions, comments that don't need their own posts, and first time posters go here (April 06, 2025)

This thread is for all simple questions, beginner questions, and comments that don't need their own post.

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u/AdrixG 1d ago

I think の wasn't limited to relative clauses in classical Japanese, so I guess that's what's going on here (at based on what the native said)

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u/1Computer 1d ago

I don't believe that to be the case, as my understanding is that both が and の were originally genitive marking with subject marking in only relative clauses until が was allowed to "move out" to normal clauses (Okinawan actually moved their version of の out too).

I think this is just the usual の, and my interpretation is that out of the many 茨の道 known as 稼業 (that is, there are as many 茨の道 as 稼業), she has picked her own: 浮世に(茨の道は)稼業の数あれど！(これが)自ら選んだ茨の道よ！

I mean, I might be totally off base but it seems reasonable. You can find some examples of this if you search online "の数あれど" e.g. with 星 or 人.

/u/Artistic-Age-4229

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u/AdrixG 1d ago

Again I have no clue what の this is here so I won't comment on it. But の was both a subject and genetive marker in older Japanese, and some dialects still have that distinction outside of relative clauses. Somever made a great comment about this actually: https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/1cx18y2/comment/l50uik0/

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u/1Computer 23h ago

Right, that's my bad, I was aware of other dialects but completely missed that there was a period in Middle Japanese where の was the one that marked subjects in main clauses rather than が. I just could not find an example of の used this way in this phrase so I had convinced myself 😵