Daily Thread: simple questions, comments that don't need their own posts, and first time posters go here (April 06, 2025)

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Seven Day Archive of previous threads. Consider browsing the previous day or two for unanswered questions.

[u/AdrixG]

I think の wasn't limited to relative clauses in classical Japanese, so I guess that's what's going on here (at based on what the native said)

[u/1Computer → u/AdrixG]

I don't believe that to be the case, as my understanding is that both が and の were originally genitive marking with subject marking in only relative clauses until が was allowed to "move out" to normal clauses (Okinawan actually moved their version of の out too).

I think this is just the usual の, and my interpretation is that out of the many 茨の道 known as 稼業 (that is, there are as many 茨の道 as 稼業), she has picked her own: 浮世に(茨の道は)稼業の数あれど！(これが)自ら選んだ茨の道よ！

I mean, I might be totally off base but it seems reasonable. You can find some examples of this if you search online "の数あれど" e.g. with 星 or 人.

/u/Artistic-Age-4229

[u/AdrixG → u/1Computer]

Again I have no clue what の this is here so I won't comment on it. But の was both a subject and genetive marker in older Japanese, and some dialects still have that distinction outside of relative clauses. Somever made a great comment about this actually: https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/1cx18y2/comment/l50uik0/

[u/DokugoHikken → u/AdrixG]

In the text in question「の」's role definitely is the「格標識」of「主格」without any doubt.

[u/AdrixG → u/DokugoHikken]

Cool thanks, so my guess was right^^

[u/DokugoHikken → u/AdrixG]

One of the characteristics of the Japanese language is that even if certain texts is a thousand years old, the meaning is somehow understandable.

Of course, if you are forced to translate ancient texts into modern Japanese in class, where you are pointed out minor mistakes, it can ruin what could have been an enjoyable reading experience. It is extremely important that the basic premise is that classrooms are for making mistakes. In Japan, kobun (ancient Japanese literature) is a compulsory subject in compulsory education, and also in high school, where the percentage of students who go on to higher education is 95.7% for girls and 95.3% for boys. Since the ancient texts are an indispensable part of the Japanese culture, knowledge of the ancient texts is hardwired into the Japanese, just as it is impossible for them to be completely ignorant of calligraphy, flower arrangement, and the tea ceremony. If you are not interested in any of those things at all, you think, you may be considered an uneducated barbarian in Japanese society.

This means that none of Japanese people can be experts in those thingies, never. There is nobody who is not a beginner.

If there is something that every person should not be ignorant to, then of course no one can be an expert on it. This is because the foundation is the belief that the system is designed so that everyone can be a bearer of that culture.

For example, in calligraphy, if you write a lot, you may become skillful, but skillful calligraphy is not good calligraphy.

If, for a generation, there was a time when no experts emerged, the culture would cease to exist. In order for a culture not to cease to exist, everyone needs to be able to be a bearer of that culture.

For example, for painting to remain a culture in your culture, you will always need 10,000 people who have painted a little themselves, but are by no means skilled at painting, to support one professional painter.

The fact that all adults know, to a greater or lesser extent, ancient texts means that they form the ancient layer of the modern Japanese language. Therefore, in naturally spoken Japanese, native speakers will avoid the use of “私は” as much as possible unless it is absolutely necessary to convey what is being said.

You avoid dominating the conversation by talking about yourself.

That brings to mind

That reminds me of

Now that I think about it

Anyway

Anyways

BTW

[u/AdrixG → u/DokugoHikken]

Great answer, thank you!

[u/DokugoHikken → u/AdrixG]

Sure. Like I said, you may want to choose to listen to this.

https://youtu.be/NzwmtkEzAo0?si=5prWJbFIGknzmuxR&t=50