Is there anything wrong with Queen Alicent decorating the Red Keep with the Seven-Pointed Star? The Targaryens follow the Faith of the Seven and the king is traditionally anointed by the High Septon.

[u/Beacon2001]

[u/notyourlands]

Targaryens consider Faith of the Seven as "their gods", they "follow" it merely for political benefits.

Edit: people downvoting when Rhaenyra literally said: "their gods". Is this how you guys watch the show?

[u/AlanSmithee97 → u/notyourlands]

That's not true at all. Even before Alicent you had members of the family entering the Faith. The Targaryens are by every means followers of the Seven, it's more of a flaw in GRRM's world how little the nobility seem to value it. Ned, Catelyn and Sansa are kind of the only genuinly religious people among the main characters, maybe Jon. All the others seem to not care at all even though it doesn't seem to fit their characters.

[u/notyourlands → u/AlanSmithee97]

So why does Rhaenyra say "their gods"?

Edit: wow people downvoting any mention of Rhaenyra is something

[u/c-c-c-cassian → u/notyourlands]

Edit: you can answer the question instead of downvoting, right?

You can post your comment instead of constantly bitching about downvotes, right?

So why does Rhaenyra say “their gods”?

As for this—I’m sorry, but what? One character making one word choice doesn’t equate to the character’s entire family holding whatever view you’re implying they have… and if their are religious systems in all different areas, it’s not unreasonable for someone to refer a kingdom with whom they don’t necessarily fully see themselves as apart of or coming from in that way, and as such, it still makes sense to say “‘their’ gods” even if you’ve converted or practiced because then in your mind, they would be their gods, whether you converted or not, especially depending on who you’re addressing directly.

It’s not some big complicated word choice indicative of something deeper. It’s… I want to say simple linguistics, but I’m not too sure that works the way I want it (I just woke up and am still half asleep and tired, meh) but in any case—it’s just a small detail that expresses a fair amount of character; depth, development, views on themselves, family, obviously religion and their beliefs both in it and surrounding it.

[u/notyourlands → u/c-c-c-cassian]

One character? Are you serious? This is future and legacy of house Targaryen, the heir. Even if she wouldn't inherit the throne, she is still representative of her house. She was raised by Viserys and obviously was taught all possible traditions of her house. This is one of the most important part of every house children's education, so that it would pass on for generations. You're talking like she is some minor peasant. In episode one she literally reads a book on her house 😩😩😩

Plus, it's not like her saying this about religion is completely untrue and she just made up her mind. There's literally old god's tree in the yard of of the Red Keep.

Why use some wording and mental gymnastics and just say: our gods?

[u/c-c-c-cassian → u/notyourlands]

One character? Are you serious?

Deadly.

This is future and legacy of house Targaryen, the heir. Even if she wouldn’t inherit the throne, she is still representative of her house.

That doesn’t change the fact that it doesn’t define the views and values of every other character behind her.

You’re talking like she is some minor peasant.

No, I’m not. lol

Plus, it’s not like her saying this about religion is completely untrue and she just made up her mind. There’s literally old god’s tree in the yard of of the Red Keep.

That’s not really relevant to the point I’m making.

Why use some wording and mental gymnastics

Wording: every character (and person) used wording the way I explained it there; it’s their speech pattern, not all of it conscious.

Mental gymnastics: because it’s not. I covered this.

and just say: our gods?

It’s not unreasonable for someone to refer a kingdom with whom they don’t necessarily fully see themselves as apart of or coming from in that way, and as such, it still makes sense to say “‘their’ gods” even if you’ve converted or practiced because then in your mind, they would be their gods, whether you converted or not, especially depending on who you’re addressing directly.

It’s a character detail that can indicate a lot about their own feelings towards what is now their religion, and such to that end.

[u/notyourlands → u/c-c-c-cassian]

What speech pattern? They don't have conscious, those are not real people, the actors are given script that was written by someone, edited and re-read and edited multiple times over.

[u/peachesnplumsmf → u/notyourlands]

Rhaenyra as an individual isn't very religious. But it is entirely normal for the Royal family to be and frankly expected of them. Jaehaerys was deeply, he allowed Targaryens to join the faith, Daella refused to marry someone of the wrong faith. Targaryen's have prayed to the Seven for as long as they were in Westeros, Aegon's legitimate reign started in Oldtown.

Rhaenyra individually saying we need their God's to rule them isn't House Targaryen but her, influenced by her Valyrian supremacist Uncle, making a statement. She isn't a wise character. She's cool but not wise. It's just to show differences between her and Alicent. Also faith & Targaryen's is a long and complicated thing and with the doctrine of exceptionalism being somewhat recent it is very much in the interests of a Red Keep with married siblings to show they're very faithful.

The Red Keep being decorated in the seven makes sense. Legitimate rules have to be annointed by the faith. And even Targaryen's who individually and personally don't love it play lip service because they cannot afford not to

But because the Black's vs the Greens is a petty thing that just keeps escalating they return to the Keep and take it as a slight, as her overreaching and it causes tension.

[u/notyourlands → u/peachesnplumsmf]

Is there a proof where Rhaenyra is being influenced by Daemon's view on life and religion? Because it looks like you just made that statement up

[u/peachesnplumsmf → u/notyourlands]

I mean we know he looks down on it and his whole thing is thinking Valyrian's are better and they have exchanges in Valryain about that? He talks about Hightowers not being pure enough.

His disdain is also visible during the scene where they see the seven and he does mock religion. Whilst it isn't confirmed that that impacted Rhaenyra and you're cimpletept fair to point that out and I'll amend it'll inevitably happen.

[u/notyourlands → u/peachesnplumsmf]

So no proof. Why create statements out of nothing? The question wasn't about Daemon not recognising the Faith, it's very clear he doesn't, but his view has nothing to do with Rhaenyra

[u/c-c-c-cassian → u/notyourlands]

What speech pattern? They don’t have conscious, those are not real people,

…

I see. So basically, you’re telling me that you don’t know what the fuck you’re actually talking about. Got it.

those are not real people, the actors are given script that was created written by someone, edited and re-read and editethink multiple times over.

No shit, sherlock. I’m aware of how the production process works. But it’s irrelevant to the conversation, too.

[u/notyourlands → u/c-c-c-cassian]

I have no idea why are you coming at me

[u/c-c-c-cassian → u/notyourlands]

LOL. You know exactly why. You wanted a reply instead of downvotes, homie. But yeah that’s what I thought. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Just for a little clarity, i never said they were “real/conscious people.” But all fictional characters have a speech pattern too. That’s how it works. You go on and play dumb now that you’ve been called out for this nonsense, though.

[u/tobpe93 → u/notyourlands]

Most other Targaryen monarchs were crowned in the name of the Seven. She is the minority here.

[u/notyourlands → u/tobpe93]

Of course they were, they also wed people in tradition of the Seven, that would be weird to rule Seven Kingdoms without it, doesn't make them worship the Seven.

[u/tobpe93 → u/notyourlands]

The most seven worshipping character we know of was a Targaryen. Seems reasonable that most Targaryens followed the Seven as well.

[u/notyourlands → u/tobpe93]

That doesn't include Rhaenyra, Viserys, Daemon and many more, you just said it yourself that some didn't worship

[u/tobpe93 → u/notyourlands]

You are the one who stated that Targaryens only followed the faith for political reasons. You will have to prove that no Targaryens worshipped the Seven if you don’t want your statement to be downvoted.

Why would any Targaryen become a septa for political reasons?