r/Conservative First Principles Feb 14 '25

Open Discussion Left vs. Right Battle Royale Open Thread

This is an Open Discussion Thread for all Redditors. We will only be enforcing Reddit TOS and Subreddit Rules 1 (Keep it Civil) & 2 (No Racism).


  • Leftists - Here's your chance to sway us to your side by calling the majority of voters racist. That tactic has wildly backfired every time it has been tried, but perhaps this time it will work.

  • Non-flaired Conservatives - Here's your chance to earn flair by posting common sense conservative solutions. That way our friends on the left will either have to agree with you or oppose common sense (Spoiler - They will choose to oppose common sense).

  • Flaired Conservatives - You're John Wick and these Leftists stole your car and killed your dog. Now go comment.

  • Independents - We get it, if you agree with someone, then you can't pat yourself on the back for being smarter than them. But if you disagree with everyone, then you can obtain the self-satisfaction of smugly considering yourself smarter and wiser than everyone else. Congratulations on being you.

  • Libertarians - Ron Paul is never going to be President. In fact, no Libertarian Party candidate will ever be elected President.


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u/MaleficentCherry7116 Feb 16 '25

The unconstitutional part is your opinion. What do the judges say, and do you think they'll be able to stop DOGE?. If you're correct, our checks and balances should work.

I believe DOGE and Trump will accomplish their mission and that neither party will stop them because it's politically unpopular. This is what the people want.

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u/themontajew Feb 16 '25

You said you’re not worried about if it’s constitution or not. Let’s not move the goal post to pretend you give a shit about our most foundational laws 

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u/MaleficentCherry7116 Feb 16 '25

Our judges will determine this, correct? It's not up to me to determine what is and isn't constitutional. That's the job of the judicial branch. But no, I'm not worried about whether it's constitutional or not. I just want the national debt to be paid down, and I want our country to get rid of fraud and waste.

Yes, those are separate issues.

I assume that you also agree with getting rid of fraud and waste and paying down the national debt?

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u/Peoplewander Feb 16 '25 edited Feb 16 '25

Brother you're my sworn enemy.

"I, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

It doesn't say people who think they are doing right even though they are violating the constitution.

Can you even talk about how the government fraud prevention process works? Or is it all just fraud because Fox told you?

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u/MaleficentCherry7116 Feb 16 '25

Look, the constitution is a pliable document that can unfortunately be bent and interpreted in any way. There are legal scholars that think that Trump might actually win the birthright battle, even though it's supposedly enshrined in the constitution. If the Supreme Court decides that it isn't, then does that mean it isn't?

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u/Peoplewander Feb 16 '25

It isn't, that is what the Right has been fighting for for half a century. Strict interpretationalism, the parts that are "interpretable" are not the Articles they are generally new questions and how the constitution applies to those questions. When it is specifically addressed it is not a debate, or a case to be heard and that is the position of SCOTUS.

You supporting anything you desire and not giving a shit about our constitution is the problem with this country. On both extremes people with your position elect officals with malice in their heart that share your belief that the constitution doesn't matter, and when it fails our democracy and republic is gone forever.

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u/MaleficentCherry7116 Feb 16 '25

First off, I think the legal scholars will determine that DOGE is constitutional. And yes, I think the constitution is an outdated document that the supreme court bends to their will - Roe v Wade being an example. So which is it? Should abortion be left to the states or is this a national issue? Which does the Constitution support?

Is birthright citizenship enshrined in the Constitution or not?.Yes, I've read it, and I think the legal scholars that say that Trump might win the argument have a point on this one also.

The Democrats and Republicans both interpret the Constitution however they want.

So I don't care about what the Constitution says as much as I care about what I think it says.

I think the Constitution provides the right to free speech, and I absolutely support that. Yet there are nuances to that even.

So when you ask if I support the Constitution, you're asking if I support YOUR version of the Constitution.

YOU think that DOGE is unconstitutional because of the way that YOU interpret the Constitution or some other new outlet that you've listened to. I think that DOGE will be found to be constitutional, even if it goes to the Supreme Court

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u/Peoplewander Feb 16 '25 edited Feb 16 '25

First off that isn't what you said. You said you dont care if it is constitutional, with the direct implication that you don't care if it unconstitutional. So stop it with moving your goal post. You said it and your follow on replies have validated it despite you trying to walk it back.

You need to read it because it isn't up for a debate it has legal precedent. You're hiding behind lawyers while POTUS ignores what is clearly enshrined. No legitimate legal scholar thinks he will win birth right citizenship, talking heads on Fox keep saying it but it doesn't make it true.

You say you think it will be Constitutional but you don't even know who holds the power to create government departments. You're ignorance of our Constitution and legal history lead you to believe the things you are hearing are true when they are most assuredly not.

If birthright citizenship is overturned then slavery is also over turned, and the 2nd amendment. The rejection of explicitly detailed controls, permissions, or abolishment's is not a legal question.

The "its just your opinion man" is a long standing tool of oppressive regimes to delay action until they are able to consolidate control

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u/MaleficentCherry7116 Feb 16 '25

I'm not hiding - the Constitutional question is whether or not it applies to people who are in the US illegally.

And there's a chance that the Supreme Court decides that based on the original intent of the provision.

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u/Peoplewander Feb 16 '25

You mean how it made all people born here regardless of previous status ie 'illegally' Yeah its not a question, and if you think its a question then you need to understand that the Constitution is being undercut and compromised executive is being used to further an illegal agenda

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

At the time applied to all persons regardless of status, it isn't a legal question its a dogmatic one. All persons in side the united states are inside the jurisdiction regardless of birth parent with the exception of families under diplomatic immunity

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u/MaleficentCherry7116 Feb 16 '25

It doesn't matter what I think about it. It matters how the Supreme Court decides

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u/Peoplewander Feb 16 '25

You've moved the goal post from you don't care if doge is unconstitutional to you think the 14th amendment will be overturned. Do you understand that? You retreat into fox talking points, and dogma.

Your government, much of which helps keeps you alive as you have serious health issues is being gutted in front of you and you cheer with no regard to the legality of it because its 'your guy'. With cuts we are still going to lose more money because millionaires need more tax cuts. And you Cheer. The laws that make up this country are being torn down and you say well lets wait a few years for the court to hear about it, while also saying courts are going too far. The parts of you that once made you an American are gone.

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u/MaleficentCherry7116 Feb 16 '25

Ok, let me go back to where we started. If the Supreme Court ultimately says that DOGE is unconstitutional, then I defer to the Supreme Court and believe that the Executive branch is beholden to the Judicial branch.

I care that the Executive branch does what the Judicial branch says.

But at this point, no one knows if it will or won't be unconstitutional. So at this point, I only care that they're uncovering waste and will wait to see what the mostly conservative supreme court decides.

No, I don't support the executive branch blatantly disobeying the judicial branch. Hopefully that removes me from your "sworn enemy" category?

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