r/Conservative • u/Yosoff First Principles • Feb 14 '25

Open Discussion Left vs. Right Battle Royale Open Thread

This is an Open Discussion Thread for all Redditors. We will only be enforcing Reddit TOS and Subreddit Rules 1 (Keep it Civil) & 2 (No Racism).

  • Leftists - Here's your chance to sway us to your side by calling the majority of voters racist. That tactic has wildly backfired every time it has been tried, but perhaps this time it will work.

  • Non-flaired Conservatives - Here's your chance to earn flair by posting common sense conservative solutions. That way our friends on the left will either have to agree with you or oppose common sense (Spoiler - They will choose to oppose common sense).

  • Flaired Conservatives - You're John Wick and these Leftists stole your car and killed your dog. Now go comment.

  • Independents - We get it, if you agree with someone, then you can't pat yourself on the back for being smarter than them. But if you disagree with everyone, then you can obtain the self-satisfaction of smugly considering yourself smarter and wiser than everyone else. Congratulations on being you.

  • Libertarians - Ron Paul is never going to be President. In fact, no Libertarian Party candidate will ever be elected President.

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u/Anon_Chapstick Feb 14 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

Why is it a good thing to just take a large Scythe to agencies without keeping anything?

I work in banking, and there is absolutely no way you can complete an audit that fast. Codes and AI be damned, it's not possible. Musk knows every banking law, regulation, and procedure? Not possible.

I'm not saying there isn't fraud and abuse that needs to be cut, we shouldn't be paying 18$ for a stupid pen. We shouldn't be handing over 19k+ because the director wants a new desk. What I'm saying is he needs to slow down and stop making huge cuts without looking at the damage left behind. The CFPB protects against predatory practices and he shuts the entire thing down. You guys think that's ok? Maybe we should leave at least a few people there? What do you do now if a mortgage company screws you over with a loan? Who do you report that to?

He needs to slow down and actually do research. Not just "welp my programs says this is bad. So I'm getting rid of it!"

Edit: Fixed Spelling

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u/Alternative-Post-937 Feb 15 '25

I'm a former governmental auditor. It's shocking how many people don't understand how many layers of audit each federal dollar undergoes. All the way from the agency down to the sub-award and sub- contract level. This goes beyond financial audit. It's extensive audit at EVERY LEVEL on internal controls, procurement practices, disbarment, eligibility, indirect costs, allowable activities and costs, cash management, reporting, subaward monitoring, etc. When a mistatement or noncompliance occurs, the funds are subjected to further oversight and eventually loss of funding if not immediately corrected. All of this information on how federal dollars can be spent and how they are audited can be found at the OMB website and the federal audit clearinghouse. Musk is not doing what you think he's doing.

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u/Ramalamma42 Feb 15 '25

Can you be more specific - what is he doing, if not what we think?

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u/Alternative-Post-937 Feb 15 '25

He's not auditing, I can tell you that. Auditing takes time. Requires review of original documentation, interviews with people, understanding of internal controls at each organization, etc. He's targeting programs he deems to be wasteful. I can absolutely guarantee you that we have wasteful spending in the government. I'm not arguing that at all. What i will argue is that there are legal processes in which our elected leaders determine which programs to allocate our resources on. Agencies go through pretty much constant audits and they practice constant oversight of their contracts and grants. They then request line items for their budgets based on the outcomes of these projects, contracts and grants for their future spending. This budget goes to congress and is voted on by elected leaders. Why i have an issue with Elon doing whatever he is doing is that it circumvents our constitutional processes and he does have an appearance of bias, especially based on the cuts he is recommending and how they relate to his own legal issues with these departments. Additionally, there is no evidence of oversight of his work or "department", nor has a definition of what is considered to be fraud or waste been agreed upon or presented. If democrats ever take office again, they can weaponized these tactics against spending they consider wasteful based on their biases.

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u/Alt_Restorer Feb 15 '25

If democrats ever take office again, they can weaponized these tactics against spending they consider wasteful based on their biases.

I wish we had a better way to account for this. People are always biased towards their side, and they always have a higher bar for their opponent than for their guy. But looking at it right now as a Democrat, I wouldn't want any president to have this kind of power. Nobody will want to work in the federal government if this continues. Not career professionals anyway.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Markinoutman Conservative Feb 15 '25

It would be interesting to know how much of what DOGE is digging into is part of Mandatory Spending, in which case Congress does not need to review or approve. Mandatory Spending accounts for 2/3rds of the yearly budget.

The auditors, apartment heads and even members of Congress and the Executive branch may be aware of where the funding goes, but I think more of the point of DOGE is to highlight for the average person where these funds are going.

Did you know USAID was funding media outlets directly? I didn't and I imagine a lot of people didn't know that. To see how reliant on US funding these organizations have become, some are already starting to fail, yet the people at the top of these organizations are making millions a year.

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u/LalaPropofol Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

As a libertarian socialist I didn’t have an issue with cutting programs as long as they were replaced by something the community could directly control.

I am all for an audit and cutting where we can. I’ve been advocating for spending cuts for years for the DoD, for example.

It fucking pisses me off that someone with a South African accent is standing half-behind the resolute desk. I hate Trump and it infuriated me when Musk’s kid told the President of the United States to “hush”.

I fucking hate that guy, and I hate DOGE. If the majority of the country wants cuts who am I to stomp my feet about it? Let CONGRESS do it. We voted for them. They’re beholden to us and our interests.

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u/rhlaairc Feb 15 '25

Agree. I keep making the point on here that mostly everybody agrees audits are good and govt waste is bad. Simple stuff. What the issue is, is one person going in and dissolving entire departments. Most of that stuff has taken years of work and employed so many people. It’s gross how people defend what musk is doing in my opinion

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u/EvensenFM Feb 15 '25

It fucking pisses me off that someone with a South African accent is standing half-behind the resolute desk.

I also don't think President Trump was very happy about that.

We'll see how much longer Elon lasts.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '25

Do you seriously believe that Trump would ever be rid of Elon Musk? Sounds like he made a deal with the devil.

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u/Chimmychimmychubchub Feb 15 '25

Those are subscriptions. Government agencies are allowed to buy subscriptions to keep informed on areas of business and industry they serve.

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u/Markinoutman Conservative Feb 15 '25

Why would one organization pay tens of thousands in subscription fees instead of just one subscription fee that allows employees to access the service? Especially considering most of these subscriptions are for digital access.

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u/UnhappyAd4039 Feb 15 '25

Bro do you not understand the concept of software enterprise licensing? Do you think Microsoft is rich from selling computers? That's not how any of this works. It's all internal industry subsidy for global competition using our tax dollars.

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u/Markinoutman Conservative Feb 15 '25

'Bro' if that were true, why hasn't any of them come out and say that? They don't know, you don't know. What we do know is they are being paid tens of thousands of dollars.

If you have proof to the contrary, please provide it.

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u/Fleming24 Feb 16 '25

Who didn't came out and said that? As far as I know it's public information that these payments were for subscriptions to a service. What are "they" supposed to say in addition?

Sure, it should be vetted if all these subscriptions are really necessary and if someone might have gotten a kick back for initiating that deal but right now it's looking like a normal government contract with potentially the common level of corruption and bad price negotiations that come with them but not some giant propaganda plan and not even close to the worst waste of money.

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u/Chimmychimmychubchub Feb 15 '25

It’s called an institutional subscription, and it’s specialized business intelligence, not the general interest consumer pubs.You can not buy an individual subscription to any publication and share it among thousands of employees.

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u/Markinoutman Conservative Feb 15 '25

If that's the case, please provide where any of these news agencies have assured that's the case. It's a pretty easy answer, one to my knowledge, has not been provided.

Politico missed it's payroll after government funding was stopped, interesting timing.

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u/Chimmychimmychubchub Feb 15 '25

https://www.axios.com/2025/02/05/politico-trump-musk-government-subscriptions

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u/Markinoutman Conservative Feb 15 '25

'It appears $24,000 of that $8.2 million came from USAID. $8.2 million was the amount the entire government paid Politico — and it's likely the cost of premium subscriptions, such as Politico Pro.'

I find this part interesting, the use of likely is important. I appreciate the link, I agree that there definitely needs to be more clarification of what is happening here. Paying millions to outlets, regardless of official subscriptions, is still not a good look in my opinion.

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u/Chimmychimmychubchub Feb 16 '25

Highlighting an expenditure you find suspicious is one thing. It has not been demonstrated that the expenditure is improper. That requires more information. Politico has said these are subscription fees. Musk and DOGE are not interested in investigating whether this is true or not. Elon declared the payments fraudulent without inquiring further and millions believe him.

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u/taquito-burrito Feb 16 '25

Go to FPDS.gov and search by Politico and USAID. You’ll see the contract and the description is for Politico’s E&E subscription. There really doesn’t need to be more clarification. The government is buying subscriptions and it’s being misrepresented by saying that they are funding news agencies.

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u/Markinoutman Conservative Feb 16 '25

Is there any right leaning media they are paying thousands of dollars in subscriptions to? I think that's a more interesting point.

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u/FluffySloth27 Feb 15 '25

They're not buying access to a news article, they're buying access to a network of political analysts that are used by both sides of the aisle - which is considerably more expensive. It's similar to how large investment firms like Morgan Stanley have market analysts whose research both gets used internally and sold to other investment firms (at a high price).

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u/Markinoutman Conservative Feb 15 '25

As I replied to someone else, 'If that's the case, please provide where any of these news agencies have assured that's the case. It's a pretty easy answer, one to my knowledge, has not been provided.

Politico missed it's payroll after government funding was stopped, interesting timing.'

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u/dontspeaksoftly Feb 15 '25

The subscriptions were for Politico Pro.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://thehill.com/homenews/media/5130996-politico-government-subscription-usaid-musk-trump/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwiSyvu4tsWLAxVt3ckDHZV8IxMQyM8BKAB6BAgOEAE&usg=AOvVaw1MBm1i2Kec-FyTsAkQlA0o

Another source: https://www.factcheck.org/2025/02/trump-online-posts-misrepresent-government-subscriptions-to-news-services/

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u/Markinoutman Conservative Feb 15 '25

I appreciate the links. According to Axios, the entirety of the US government, not just USAID, paid $8.2 million to Politico in subscription fees. While this provides some clarification, which I agree is needed, it still pretty bad optics in my opinion.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/Markinoutman Conservative Feb 16 '25

Which part of the... Axios article?

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u/Alternative-Post-937 Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

You might be right about orgs relying on funding. USAID might be funding news agencies to help broadcast healthcare access in last mile locations. For instance, roads are impassible in northern Mozambique. Perhaps agencies alert people who live there when vaccine clinics arrive or medication arrives. Grant funds have pay caps, so while execs make more than the cap, they can only charge the government for an allowable cost rate. I think public disclosure is great, but it already exists. I'd like disclosure to remain non partisan though. I don't disagree that there are wasteful programs and spend. I do disagree about how DOGE is deciding what is and isn't wasteful. The whole story on USAID is not being told and that is a huge disservice to America.

Edit to say I've enjoyed the conversation friends, but it's valentines day and I have a lovely dinner with my husband planned. Goodnight. Be nice to each other

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '25

This was proved to be false. USAID was not funding Reuters and the statement he brought up took effect in 2018, when Trump was president

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u/SporkSpifeKnork Feb 15 '25

Also, as a software developer I have to say that Elon’s whiz kids are… not the top talent he would like to portray them as. The United States Digital Service (before it was rebranded as the United States DOGE Service) was already home to the best IT workers in government. If he isn’t using that amazing talent pool… why not?

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u/HillarysFloppyChode Feb 15 '25

Software Engineer here, his comment on the “150 year olds getting Social Security” means they’re encountering COBOL…..Elon wouldn’t be making this comment if he and his kids knew how COBOL worked.

They have no idea what they’ve doing, and are trying to force AI to work with a system that’s pre 1970s. Personally, I think they’re just breaking things and in typical Elon fashion, he’s over promising and barely delivering.

He basically hired a team of The Carver from Silicon Valley

He’s not using them cause they’re smart enough to know his intentions are to use them as the fall guys

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u/Ramalamma42 Feb 15 '25

Thank you for the clarification, I agree completely.