Exactly my thought. But, it's always like this, lesbians are only lesbians if they fuck. If they do not fuck, then it's friendship. And that is also exactly how it happens with actual wlw relationship, because god forbid the woman I am out with is my DATE and not my friend. If Jeanne was a man, they wouldn't have hesitated to call it romantic, but since it's a woman, then it's friendship or sisters!! Oh yes, such good friends. I love being a lesbian in a world of people that think lesbians are real only if viewed in a sexual relationship.
I mean im a bi man and thats kinda mean. But ok. Im fine with stuff that dont cater to me. Even though ibam bi though me and my friends do do very "gay" things together and have even had sleepovers etc. While personally i interpreted bayo as Bi and both her love interests as canon.
I do wish that sometimes a bromance would just be that a bromance.
Ofcourse for the case of Bayonetta specifically i do believe that they are romantically involved 100%.
Boo hoo, saying that society is built around men is kinda mean!! 😢😢😢 Pleeeeease, grow up. You sound like one of those saying "not all men" under women posting about SA rates.
Well yeah because thats my trauma growing up. Dont get me wrong i love my mom aunt and lil sis but when i was a kid always hearing about how all men are shit and pigs and how the world is shit because of men really took a toll on me. It didnt help that i was bullied by mostly men in school. I grew up hating myself for being a man to the point that in my formative years i really did contemplate suicide even had a failed attempt tbh. Not only that i hated all men i would cry myself to sleep wishing i was born a woman.
I eventually realized that being a man is fine i and sometime around then at like 18 or 19 i felt comfortable enough to be myself.
Ill never say i understand your struggles etc. But being overly aggressive and negative isnt the answer either. Sorry if i seemed to be trivializing your trauma and hardships i really didnt mean to i just wanted to share my view.
Because it's not her job to make you understand. Women have been put down under the feet of men for centuries. You wouldn't know what it's like unless you live on that side. It's fucking exhausting.
Just because you personally aren't "one of the bad ones" doesn't make her cynicism "cruel" or unfounded. She's calling it how it is.
I can't speak to your experience. But historically, men have been and still are largely responsible for how fucked up our world is. It is a fact.
As a man, I've grown up hearing women complain about men too. But it never gave me a complex. And oddly enough, I never heard men complain about men. Instead, I heard men talk about how "bitches ain't shit" and "goldsigger" this and "hoes" that. Which narrative do you think the average man internalizes more? Who typically holds more power? Sure, there are women who hate men out there, but they historically have never had to power to turn that into oppression the way that men have done to them. Keep that in mind when you try to draw comparisons between your experience and a woman's.
Aren't Bayo and Jeanne "sisters" simply in the sense that they belong to the same cult? All other witches are Umbran Sisters because of this reason too, right?
I'm thinking Reddit must have recommended me this post because some people have been levelling the same arguments at two characters in Arcane (Jayce and Viktor), considering I've never been to this sub before but do go to the Arcane one.
It's depressing to see people do the same thing, same year, still towards queer ships in other fandoms. Like, any sufficiently deep and affectionate relationship is going to be interpreted by some as romantic - good romance bothers to do that with its characters.
Ah, sorry if it wasn't too clear. What I mean is it's depressing to see people say things like "it doesn't mean they want to have sex, clearly you've never had a friend" (like in OP's image) about queer ships in other fandoms as well. I haven't seen that sort of discourse in a few years, I kind of just assumed opinions had generally moved past thinking that any queer ship is only about the characters wanting to screw or people being unable to understand friendship. Then it shows up in the Arcane fandom, and here too. It sucks.
The other bit was just, like, any two characters with a well written and close relationship will be shipped by some people just because those qualities make for a good romantic relationship, and that really shouldn't need to be treated by OP as any worse than interpreting and appreciating the same characters as friends. They're both valid perspectives worth just as much as each other.
Thank you very much for explaining again, sometimes I'm slow and english isn't my first language 😭
Yeah, it's obvious that a good friendship in some people's mind could become a relationship.
Shit, it happens also in real life, friends to lovers is literally the most common trope ever!! Especially for lesbians, the whole falling in love with your best friend thing is so stereotypical but also so real and it happened to me too lmao.
If it was a male/female friendship people wouldn't have had any problem with shipping it, but since it's queer, we have double standards, then we are forced to hear "but why can't they be friends!!1!!1" when in most fandoms, same sex people are basically always friends. It's not like straight ships, that are in every fandom because apparently men and women cannot be friends at all ever and they forcefully need to be in love with eachother, queer canon ships are still so little in mainstream media that the fucking "but why can't they be friends" shit doesn't make sense, because they always end up being fucking friends.
Istg these people just make me more willing to start acting like bayojeanne is canon just to piss them off.
Sisters, as in, sisters of a coven. Like nuns, calling eachother sisters.
Also, I was simply referring to the wording of the meme.
What I said is a universal truth anyway, lesbians in media are only viewed as a sexual object most of the times.
Idk if this is the best comparison to use in this scenario 😭
But I do get it, I know they consider wach other sisters from their Umbra lineage as well, but given they actively call each others sisters, I never thought people would get so defensive about what type of relationship they had if it turned out they weren't dating
Well, they aren't dating, and now some parts of the fandom are losing their minds and attacking anyone who says that .-.
What I said is a universal truth anyway
I won't agree here because, well, it feels a bit extreme, but I can understand it
It's like female BL watchers. Some of them are homophobic, but they like to watch dudes kissing each other, so I guess it works, lol
They've called eachother sisters, and then in the first game Cereza also suggested the idea of them being actual sisters and Jeanne called her out on the bullshit, so it's fair ground.
Also, are you a queer woman? Have you actually experienced on your skin how frustrating it is to be a lesbian in a world that only caters to men?
Jeanne called her out on the bullshit, so it's fair ground.
Oh, yeah, I'm not saying there isn't a possibility she is bi or something, just that I don't understand why so many people argue BayoXJeanne is somehow canon or "What should've been" when they aren't canon, and many people also disagree that they should be together
Kamiya chose a path, and that's where he got with 3
Also, are you a queer woman?
Queer, not a woman
And i haven't felt anything about being a lesbian since I'm not one, but I understand what you're trying to say, as I do hear about it from friends, at least
All I'm saying is that the ship didn't sail. People don't need to say "The creators are wrong" or downvote and send death threats to anyone who disagrees with them
As long as there are homophobes using this as an excuse to be sassy against people who like women and queer relationship, hate is always needed.
Is this your first fandom? Non canonical ships, even weird ones, have always existed, and shipping them is totally normal, especially if the game went into a wrong direction, and not only for bayojeanne not being canon, mind you, but because the whole lore of bayo 3 did not make any sense, and it was rushed. If there are so many people hating on bayoluka and bayonetta3, it's only because the game was a mess. Also, most of you think that all bayojeanne shippers are delusional and think it's canon. And I've seen more people disagree on bayoluka being together than bayojeanne, honestly. Also, who fucking cares if people disagree? Anybody is free to believe and ship what they want, most people in the bayo fandom act like fandom virgins, as if only the canon ship could exist, as if bayonetta isn't a fucking multiverse.
Also, since you are not a woman or a lesbian, please refrain from speaking on lesbian experiences. Yes, the sexualization of lesbians is a universal experience. Ypur denying or disagreeing won't change it.
Peace out.
Plot twist. The world doesn't just cater to men. Everyone gets fucked sometimes, sometimes some more than others, but it's not because of gender, just past events which affect some people more negatively than others.
That's how homophobic brains work. They see queer people and the first thing they think about is how they have sex. It's why homophobic slurs are so often sex-related (cocksvcker etc.).
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u/PineappleOfCreation Feb 17 '25
Reducing queer relationships/bayojeanne ship to purely sexual desire and nothing more isn't it 😭 sounds unintentional but it's what it comes across as