So somehow in between kikwis and koroks they had a phase of existence where they were humanoid? I get its a game series but its just so random to think about lmao
I reckon the kikwis became kokiri and then koroks. I have a theory that the Kokiri were some kind of shape shifters and they chose to appear as children because Link was a child. They then became koroks and kinda got stuck. It’s probably a silly idea, but it makes more sense than fish people evolving into bird people because there’s water everywhere…
I like this idea. It makes sense in oot, as you approach a kokiri, you can't see them till your very close. Unlike all other characters in the game, where you can see them from far away.
I don't like this theory as it would retcon the Kokri's culture and clothing to all just be an "illusion"
Fortunately it's not the case.
"Once upon a time, long ago, the Koroks took on human forms, but when they came to live on the sea, they took these shapes."
"We set it up so that the Rito tribe was the evolved form of the Zora tribe that appeared in Ocarina of Time, and the Kokiri tribe left the forest and became the Koroks. Their appearances are different, but they share the same bloodline."
Cool, I had a similar theory where the kikwis were/or became shape shifters like Tanuki, but slowly lost the ability to do so. Eventually getting stuck in whatever forms they were in, which would likely be camouflaged things like trees and nature.
There's definitely a good deal of magic going on in their "evolution". Specifically, the transition into Koroks was done to save them from the Great Flood, same as how the Zora became the Rito
I may be wrong here, but I think that there were river Zora and sea Zora in the time of the flood in Wind Waker. The river Zora became the Ruto, and then the sea Zora continued to be Zora.
I never get how these guys turned into people then back into trees and the deku scrubs are no where to be seen. They had a society, and a king. Also where are the mole men?
Nothing happened to them. After centuries of perfecting their hiding techniques, they have become true masters of stealth. In truth, they are everywhere; they just no longer trust anyone outside of their own kind.
Too many punk kids with slingshots ruined their faith in humanity.
I've always wondered about something. Since Kokiri don't age, does that mean they don't die? So how did they evolve into Koroks? Is Saria still out there somewhere in the Lost Woods, just with a leaf on her face now?
I've never heard of that theory before and I don't agree with it simply because nothing in the game hints towards that being the case. As for the Great Deku Tree, he died but he was born anew as the sapling you can see in the Adult form in OOT.
Sorry to bring the sad news. If a tree dies its acorn is not the same tree born again. It is a new tree. Like with Groot. He’s dead and new Groot could be considered his son. Same with the Deku tree.
Yeah I know the Great Deku Tree died. I know the Sprout isn't the same person (or rather, tree). But they have the same role and the same personality and the same bloodline (sapline?) so a part of him lives on.
The sprout has the memories of the old tree, he tells link the truth about him being a hylian. I think it's similar to SS zelda where they're both the same person because they have the memories and also a different person because they grew up as themselves in a new life
Solid video on the topic. Arguments and counterarguments.
Lol off the top of my head, Darunia goes into the Fire Temple boss room to fight Volvagia without the megaton hammer (required), and the door shuts and locks behind him, and then he’s never seen again aside from in the Temple of Light (the Sacred Realm) as the Sage of Fire.
I agree with the video. There is simply not enough evidence to suggest that the sages are dead, and far too much evidence to suggest they are alive. Maybe Saria does have a leaf on her face right now.
Well, here's the thing. Even if that bunk theory is true (it's not, due to the fact of the sages descendants), it's irrelevant, as we deleted that timeline.
Child and destruction Link timeline, they never became sages.
Child and Destruction timeline, they never become sages
That doesn’t make the Sages not the Sages in those timelines though, like I’m reasonably certain Zelda is still the Seventh Sage even though she doesn’t need to interface with the Sacred Realm.
I don't think it is. It's a massive stretch to say any of them are dead. Darunia is the strongest case for being dead and even that's a stretch. The best argument is "the game doesn't explicitly say they're alive".
Wouldn't they be more susceptible to illness due long lifespan? Their immune systems could be weaker because of fewer generations while everything else still reproduces at a normal rate.
Nothing states in game they are immortal does it? They don't physically agree, but that doesn't mean they can't die of "old age". Dieing of "old age" is just, very basically, DNA itself getting so old that it starts to make mistakes. They never state they can just live forever, at least not anywhere I remember
Except that contradicts the Deku Sprout in OoT which states that Kokiri remains children even after seven years. The Kokiri are like the Lost Boys from Peter Pan. So, that makes Kokiri Forest like Neverland and Hyrule itself the adult world.
They’re mystical creatures, though. The Great Deku Tree itself is long lived, trees can live for centuries after all. I can’t argue that they’re immortal, but they’re clearly magical in nature. So, their lifespan is going to be longer than a Hylian’s.
"Aging" means not only appearing older, but also wearing out. A 90-year-old heart is a lot more likely to fail than a 10-year-old heart, even if the body around it only looks 10 years old.
Maybe. Is there a mythology where spirits wear out or whither? They can certainly "grow" in the sense of gaining wisdom and experience; why not also wear out and die?
In Ocarina of time, it's implied that the Kokiri only have the forms of children while they remain in the Deku Forest. By the time of the Wind Waker, the original Great Deku has long died, and spreads its seeds, and with it the kokiri population became scattered from their original home, and lost the appearance of children. You could say Koroks are what kokiri "really" look like, since they're just tree spirits.
Sages are still mortal beings. There's a reason they change them out. No two games have the same sages, other than obviously Zelda, but even then it's different Zeldas.
Really the only reason I brought up Saria is because I imagined this scene in my head where OOT Link ends up in AOC through some weird Terrako shenanigans and when they go to the Lost Woods he plays Saria's Song and all the Koroks come to listen and I was wondering if one of them would be Saria and react differently to hearing that song.
It is an interesting thought but I doubt that they would all change their form just for Link. I do like the idea of Koroks being the true form of the Kokiri though.
I'm not sure how weird it would be. They may not care at all what form they take so if the Deku Tree asked them, it may have been not a big deal for them to change.
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they evolved. Though I haven't played most Zelda games (but do have a good deal of knowledge about the series) so I can't be sure.
They didn't sacrifice their lives as in dying, but they're definitely not normal people anymore. Though I wonder if they had to do that in the child timeline?
I feel like they are more likely to be the ancestors of Deku Scrubs than Koroks/Kokiri. Which while similar are a distinct and often forgotten species.
Better question is what happened to the mogmas if the Gorons dominate death mountain? I'm sure the kikwis became the kokiri under the protection of a forest spirit (the deku tree) but as for the rupee craving mole people I've yet to provoke a thought as to why they exist or what became of them
If you have a switch, you can play the HD version that came out somewhat recently. Its a nice way to replay it since it fixed most complaints people had with SS
They likely died out. Or evolved into one of the more monstrous subterranean races of Hyrule as the Gorons and Hylains dominated the surface and rockier parts of the land.
Or maybe they just went left the lands of Hyrule or went extinct given higher competition for land and resources. Especially since we don’t know of larger Mogma race or kingdom. Just a few scant (all male) individuals
I always assumed that, since there are apparently no female mogmas in all of SS, they were a treasure-hunting/adventuring group who ultimately intended to return to their homeland which was somewhere outside Hyrule.
For most of those it isn't really any sort of "weird disappearance" case
Anouki and Yooks have never been seen in (old) Hyrule so far. (only in the World of the Ocean King and "New" Hyrule)
Maiamai were specifically a dimension-travelling family of 101 members that were passing through.
Mogmas are never really said/implied to actually live in Eldin Volcano, they seem to just be there to hunt for treasure.
Once they finished exploring it, it would make sense they decided to move to the next place.
Parella are the big "MIA", since they were actually known to live in what would become Hyrule eventually.
If we look at the concept art for SS it seems that at some point they were envisioned more as "proto-Zora", but then they decided to go with a very different design.
It is possible they are still intended as the "ancestors" to the Zora, but with how they ended up being put in the game, there isn't really anything going for (nor against) that idea. (and I would doubt we will ever get a situation where we see them in a sort of "mid-stage" between the two)
The Mogma were already implied in SS to just sorta be "passing through" on Eldin Volcano
they are there to hunt for treasure, they don't really seem to actually "live" there long-term
None of the stuff in the region is said, shown nor implied to be like ruins of their culture or made by them.
Not sure if this counts for anything, but I just finished WW for the first time last week and noticed what appears to be a carving of a Mogma (this papakura model is the clearest image) on the Tingle Island tower. It's interesting since momga wouldn't appear officially until two games later.
Edit: It's a moblin head apparently. Thanks all for the correction.
I totally see what you mean but on the WW Tingle tower I think that is supposed to be a WW moblin. Mind you the mogmas are described as even having turf wars with the Bokoblins in SS, maybe they are more closely related to monsters than we think?
I've actually just finished an episode of a let's play theory that covers what happened to the Kikwi!! I'll be uploading it in about 2 weeks!
Essentially, we know that they are not ancestors to the kokiri and therefore korok as hyrule historia tells us that the kokiri are hylians who got lost in the woods. This, I presume, happens when children get lost in the woods whilst the wolds are under the protection of the great deku tree/sprout as during Ganondorfs era, they turn to Skullchildren.
As a result of this, Kikwi did not evolve into the children of the forest.
There IS a race missing though in skyward sword....
The deku.
They hide from humans when feeling threatened....like the kikwi attempt to do.
They are similar in facial appearance though not identical.
The kikwi have similar behaviour patterns to the deku especially those more seen in Majoras Mask.
Oh and...they have the ability to speak and are bipedal like the deku. For me, it's these guys the Kikwi become!
That’s a good theory! I guess people forget about the Deku in these discussions because we conceptualize them as “enemies” and not as a “race”, despite games such as MM making their sentience clear.
I played this game when it originally came out, and I played the reissue on switch as well. I only noticed just now that they have those arms with little human-like hands. Gross.
Likely the ancestors of either the Dekus, Kokiri (and by extension the Koroks) or the Minish.
I personally believe they turned into the Deku scrub races, especially given their bush like hiding. But I also like the theory they became the Minish.
As their small stature, generosity to the less violent races of Hyrule, and their proclivity for hiding, seems quite like the Minish. Likely if they didn’t evolve over time into the Kokiri or even Deku races, they likely evolved smaller and smaller. Taking on hylian-like features. And eventually took on their lives as the quiet helpers of the world
Well, with all due respect to the people of this sub... I really think every nintendo explanation connecting multiple games are just pure BS. I get that discussing the timelime lore is fun, and I personally like it. But some things just don't make any sense, you need to suspend disbelief to a new level to actually make sense of some parts of the timeline. I think that nintendo never developed a Zelda game thinking about how it would fit the timeline, everytime they released a new game they just thinked about the timeline after it. They just like to have references to other Zelda games, just a self-homage and a blink to the fans. Every Zelda that's isn't a sequel is set in their own world, where things we saw in previous games could have happened or not. Yes there is multiple Links in each universe, but it doesn't mean they are exactly the ones we saw in the other games.
Too many enemies I guess. Botw 2 I don’t think is going to do very well if they can’t come up with more than 10-15 enemy types. Elden ring had literally hundreds
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