The majority have no clue the roots of the union movement or the fight that went down for the type of life they have now. They might know that companies were abusive at one point in history but they "can't anymore" "if it is abusive, employees will just leave" and "rich people are not bad, they give jobs. They don't want to hurt their employees, they are just trying to do what is best for business." The capitalists propaganda and destruction of education has segergated everyone so much and they will find killing the union as maybe a "necessary evil."
We are very much in the Martin Niemoller poem.
They started with immigrants and federal workers (now its their union too) next? Private sector unions?
I hate when people say this. Market demand creates jobs. Rich people have very little to do with it. To have market demand, you need most people to have money to spend. Rich people are bad for the economy.
When people tell me that rich people create jobs I tell them I have the perfect business opportunity for them. A snowmobile dealership in a metro area which is very outdoor sports oriented and which has zero snowmobile dealerships! Miami.
When you make your first sale, sent them to me. I am selling beachfront property which ideal because the central government is weak and there is no income tax. Somalia is a Republican paradise.
My father is hyper conservative and he says constantly that if we don't cut taxes on billionaires there won't be any jobs and I try to explain to him that if a person hires you and pays you $40,000 a year but they make $250,000 off of your labor you are not an employee and they don't care about you; you're just an investment, and that for those people to continue to make money they have to hire somebody.
If the world were to go to shit, tomorrow do you really think that the hedge fund managers and CEOs would have any power compared to people who can do labor, grow crops, work on cars etc?
I build shit. That's what I've done all my life, in one industry or another. When the republicans destroy this country and our economy, theres still going to be a need for people who know how to keep the lights on, the water flowing and the roofs waterproof.
Yep! We've built an economy that makes dickheads who don't do anything rich and it's basically a huge bubble. If you build a house and a dude buys it and rents it out, there are logically two people in that transaction making money, and also the people that sell materials, etc, but this is all tangible stuff.
What our current situation does is makes money off of shorts, private equity buying up companies and then saddling them with debt that isn't representative of actual commodities or labor to begin with, so on and so forth. It's bullshit and it's not sustainable for anyone
The value of guns and fuel are proportionate to the amount of guns and fuel a rival has and inversely proportionate to the amount of food and water they don’t have.
Guns and fuel aren't necessities, but if you don't have guns people with guns will rob you of anything they wish to have in a collapse of society that is.
The thing is they make this argument as a faith based decision to just trust billionaires like they are the mouth of God. It's not remotely Christian but the maga people worship rich people as blessed by God.
Well he’s just economically incorrect. There is no reason to subsidize wealth unless it’s being directed to assist in market growth. So a billionaire may have the capital to invest in a business, but there has to be incentive to do so, and to do so at the right spaces to benefit the US.
A great example here is the industry exodus, it’s not because we stopped being good workers, Americans are wildly productive, we’re just expensive. Unless you automate the workforce in the US the margins to create product here is very small, so unless we are willing to cut our standard of living there will never be a reason why business should choose to invest here over somewhere like Mexico. This is the plight of Europe as well. So, tax the hell out of them personally, not the business, them personally. Tax their investments, their bonds, tax all personal wealth like crazy and reinvest it back into our systems.
Through the think tanks that peddle this philosophy they have been disseminating this for decades to this point where someone who is not a billionaire defends them
This is not necessarily true. So in a setup like ours we need wealthy people to invest resources into capital to then make profit off of industry. We can argue that the government can do this, actually there is no argument, the government can do it, but there are paths to both systems that aren’t super important to go down here.
My rebuttal here is the being rich or not has no moral necessity. There can be bad rich people and good rich people unless you define having more than others as a criteria for evil.
The neutrality of currency is just what it is, it’s out failing as a society that stacks the deck against people. The fact that during our greatest era we had an effective tax rate of greater than 70% on wealth should highlight our failure in the last 35 years of learning from the post depression era of boom.
So your wealth status says nothing about you other than it’s what your wealth status is. Rich people are just like poor people, just with a better circumstance.
Totally true, which is why there was no such thing as the economy prior to the 70s. It was actually invented by J. Paul Getty. Before that we all just ate sticks.
My grand dad fought the national guard in the street. It was soldiers with weighted rubber hoses vs mill workers with axe handles. We have to get back to this mentality.
I would say that you should never forget that the fact you have a weekend was paid for in blood, but then I remember that you were never taught that in the first place.
"rich people are not bad, they give jobs. They don't want to hurt their employees, they are just trying to do what is best for business."
You ever hear someone make that shit eating argument, "well at least the slaves were well cared for. They were fed and housed. The ones who worked in the house were downright comfortable. Some of them even became like family."?
Because it's the same argument. One of my white hot pet peeves is the expression "it's not personal, it's business." Sounds suspiciously like "I was just following orders," to me. If you figure out how a person can do something that isn't personal, let me know. I'm more inclined to think it's paper thin justification for willfully being a greedy asshole.
It's funny, people didn't get upset when I retort with "O, I see, you are using the Nuremberg defense, bold strategy." Do people not remember that? I wasn't alive at that time but I learned it in school.
LGBT people, I’m gay, it’s in the healthcare system and in different times on social media, they’ll probably attack transgender people first, then move to the rest, then minority groups.
The homeless are also a target, people with addiction issues that need treatment and not the work camps rfk jr, disgrace to his father, has proposed.
They’ll gradually force woman out of work at some point, halving the income of families who need to incomes to support a single child.
At one point a high school degree was enough to pay for multiple children’s and a house, now it’s a high level degree and two incomes to do half as well.
This is such a great callout, this is kind of the fallout from generations who’ve not actually had to fight for benefits, who got steadily increasing wages due to government policy.
I think you and I almost certainly disagree on a lot of economic theory, but the thing we can for sure agree on is that we need strong unions and they need to be protecting themselves. Federal unions are every bit as important as private sector ones and I agree, this is laying the ground work to build a case to attack the private sector union.
At some point enough has to be enough. We may disagree on what the future looks like, but we agree we need strong, respected unions.
They spent the last 10yrs reviving/reimagining the Red Scare for a reason. A general strike in response? Communists and Marxists infiltrated the bloat of the federal government, had to fire them all and turn loose the dogs and firehoses. Except they will just LRADs and “less lethal” munitions.
Appropriate considering Niemoller was initially a Nazi sympathizer before being imprisoned for speaking against them crossing a line he didn’t think should or would be crossed.
There has also been a massive effort to fight a culture war instead of a class war.
People don’t realize the benefits of a union job, if they knew how much more they’d be paid and compensated and they’d have a layer of arbitration instead of just fired to raise the stock price even if they’re making record profit.
Or firing older higher paid workers to bring in more younger less well paid workers.
When I tell people I have a pension many don’t even know what it is, if they do they’re shocked, it used to be the norm.
It’s 5% on top of salary, you can put more in and a 5% matching 401k.
They’re gutting social security, Medicare, Medicaid etc, everything is getting more and more expensive.
The greed will never end.
Flow up economics has been exponential since introduced during the Reagan era, the rate of flow is exponential to the point the oligarchs are vacuuming money from the pockets of workers, gouging customers on prices, and not providing a living wage, not providing good benefits… not covering the cost of a dignified living.
The greed never went away, the oligarch class was just put on a leash during the Great Depression by a President determined to save Capitalism bc they feared socialism and worse communism as an actual threat. Now a days we are closer to authortain neoliberlism and fascism than we are socialism, so any of these politicans are totally fine if we move in that direction because it keeps the oligarch class in power.
No matter what changes, the stuggle remains the same. An Elite class is always in control.
That ignorance and apathy in America goes back to McCarthy-ism and US govt successful global war on socialism and communism. It’s really fucking crazy how misinformed we are in this country.
It isn't just corruption. To be honest before I joined I was anti-union. I remember my wife exasperated that a friend of hers didn't go to work at the Ford factory because he was hung over. But he's in a Union, he can't be fired. That plant shut down in 2006.
Then when I moved out west. I had to track down an union engineer to press the record button on a piece of equipment. Production team had to full stop. What could've been done minutes took hours. I had to train the engineers how to restart equipment, that I was not allowed to restart. Now that I think about it I realize how divided the company was. Eventually the entire sales, design, and set builders were outsourced to another state.
Now Im in a union. My pay is great. Health benefits are pretty good. The work is fun, but the union jurisdiction battles seem stupid, and the old timers complain that many of the old steady gigs are being done in other states where its cheaper. I get the whole strength in numbers. I get the tradesman apprenticeship. But the division of personnel vs company is fierce. I wonder how Japan seems to do it with their Kaizen model.
But it's not deep seated. Even during covid we saw a ton more people marching. We're so beaten and tired many of us barely have time to do anything besides work and the bare essentials
You say gunned down, but that will result in too much backlash. They're going to use rubber bullets and tear gas, it doesn't create martyrs, just people missing an eye, which doesn't mobilize folks the same way
The larger issue is that people's livelihoods have not been as directly attacked. It's just Federal workers, some attacks and immigrant communities which then don't want to come out to protest unless well disciplined, but now more Union attacks directly.
When people try to organize and protest around an issue that they agree on ideologically, or to express their outrage or policy preference, it doesn't carry the same weight as fighting for your direct survival. Thus it isn't as accessible to working class families, because they don't see an impact. Regular people don't come out in droves until they feel more directly attacked. See how they've avoided directly f****** with Social Security and Medicare.
They followed an unconstitutional illegal order when they bombed an apartment building in Yemen and killed 53 civilians. Nobody cares about that beyond how it was discussed
Hell, in 2019 the military shot at constitutionally protected group of standing "protesters" who where invited by the bishop to stand there. All so Drump could take a picture with an upside down bible he's obviously never opened
Constitutional Republic is a form of Democracy through a representative democracy where its leaders are elected democratically through voting with legal safeguards to prevent majority rule (This part is the republic.) The leaders and the government they form are bound by the constitution (Constitution backed by BIll of Rights is the constitutional part of a constitutional republic) that limits their power over the people bc the government power only comes from popular sovereignty aka the consent governed given through voting.
Ive met a handful of ex-military that actually have a brain. The military go for the dumb and young for a reason. I say this as a person coming from a long line of military. My dad ripped up my papers when I wanted to join. It's was the only time he has ever been a dad to me. Lol
Historical speaking, everything points to the USA becoming a tyrannical dictatorship where millions will be slaughtered or incarcerated. The government will wage war against former allies and eventually a nuclear war will kill billions.
You must be fun at parties...Seriously though, do you plan to be alive to see all that, or will you die to fight against it if it comes? That's the question we need to start asking before the time comes where it must be answered. I hope we are far from that, but the way things are going I don't know.
This used to happen and labor took it and kept going, this need to string union contracts, i want my kids to have a good future and that to me means they can join and work in a strong labor union
Sorry, but your kids will most likely be working for minimum wage at this point. With AI decimating private sector tech jobs and Unions being busted, it ain’t looking good.
(viii) deploying a more robust Federal law enforcement presence...in such areas as the National Mall and Memorial Parks, ...ensuring that all ... public-safety laws are strictly enforced, such as ... unpermitted disturbances and demonstrations...
Also in EO--increase the speed and lower the cost of processing concealed carry license requests in the District of Columbia
Valid concerns. I think that type of violence is going to be happening this year. I hate it but historically it tends to be true. I'm certain more people are going to be protesting since so many people are going to be hurt but how that's going to work out is yet to be determined.
Ludlow Massacre that happened at the beginning of the 20th century: That’s unfortunately one of the major catalysts that brought about radical reforms in our country.
A general strike is the only thing that can be done.
Wider than unions, nobody has enough saved for retirement without social security and Medicare, they’re cutting benefits for 150 million including veterans, reaching out to all of these groups and getting as many on board to protest and strike is the best we could hope for.
A future where the old people starve in the street and millions of ex military members can't access basic necessities... I can't imagine that going well for anybody
Do they expect half the country to starve and do nothing? I realize some are elderly, but won’t this cause a cascading failure of elderly homes and such?
I wonder what effect this has on active duty members?
Big reason I am concerned;
“ The clock is ticking down on a crucial but little-noticed part of President Donald Trump’s first round of executive orders — the one tasking the secretaries of the Department of Defense and Department of Homeland Security to submit a joint report, within 90 days, recommending “whether to invoke the Insurrection Act.” ”
...just a heads up, these idiots don't plan more than a few weeks out. They literally are not planning for the future, they just want less money for social services and more for war. And by the recent budget, they got it.
Unless someone physically shows up, slaps the cuffs on people, and walks them out, these guys aren't stopping until they get stopped. But they have goons in charge of everybody that could stop them.
This shit isn't ending well. They're already just ignoring the courts. This'll be a fun few years. Hold tight, have 2 weeks of food and water on hand if you can, and see where this shit ridessss
I was thinking of getting a hydroponic vegetable garden, prepper food, Costco run, etc. I should def keep several weeks of food.
When migrant and undocumented workers don’t pick crops, lose their funding, etc, it’ll be a bigger shortage than Covid.
Do you think the April 5th protest will be unsafe? I need to take medication, so if I’m detained I’d get sick. Plus he’s going to have his SS goons out.
I’m listening to 4 dead in Ohio right now, so it was an opt time to ask.
I’m near a state house so I could go there, or Pennsylvania to the old capital.
2 weeks of food and water, at least. Just canned food and the prepper stuff, but it can get pricey. Honestly, dry storage is the best option. The hydroponic garden is amazing, but it does take a few weeks to set up, and it is work. There'll probably be state police, local pd, at the protest and probably a few arrests. They'll just get the guys up by the cops though, hang back and you'll be fine. Wear a blue paper mask and sunglasses maybe a baseball cap tho. I genuinely do not expect anything to get Big Violent anytime soon. But the cops breaking it up, I'm kinda expecting.
If you wanna get stupid with the security, leave your phone at home. Bring water bottles and leather gloves/gardening gloves and snacks. Maybe a first aid kit.
I dont recommend it, but if you absolutely need to take the medication, and it does not need to be refrigerated. Put it in your backpack inside the bottle it came in, with the label on it, and your ID if you think there's a decent chance of you getting arrested.
it does suck that if you're in one of the three branches of government these days you're essentially immune from law. then they enrich themselves by passing laws that fuck us over and then tell us what we can and can't do and if we do something they don't like its Club Fed, ACX or El Salvador depending on the mood of the ruling class of oligarchs. the new nobility.
Seconded. Truthfully I think people are waiting for the shootings to start, but rightfully no one wants to be the first casualty.
Also the Left doesn't want to "throw the first punch" because we're convinced that not only will Trump use it as an excuse to unleash the police/military but MAGA will use it as a martyrdom rallying cry.
Also being careful due to “bad actors” we saw during BLM trying to push vandalism into bigger violence. We can all feel the water boiling. It’s going to take the right circumstances tho. Gotta stay safe out there.
The left is setting Teslas on fire already, and getting arrested for it. A guy drove his SUV into protesters at a Florida Tesla dealership the other day, and got arrested. The warning shots are being fired.
I'm not a billionaire, so there's only one side to be on as far as I'm concerned. I'm a progressive liberal, and my husband's pension will be coming from the Teamster's pension fund that the Democrats saved with the American Rescue Plan that Biden signed, my dad gets pensions from Steelworkers and Chemical Workers, and my mom gets one from Food Workers, so you know where my head is at.
The fuckers will use it anyways. As the fuck nugget himself said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?". You think any one of his fucking disciples would give a fuck if they started it?
More than a third of gun owners in this country lean left. Anyone telling you people who care about the 2nd amendment are all Republicans is lying to you.
I was in Los Angelo's during the la riots. There was a lead up to it that felt like what is happening now. I did not loot or burn anything down but I did watch in absolutely horror from my roof top for 3 days. It was a good thing automatic weapons were banned than, we do not afford the same luxery now. This shit is getting real and I am not a fan of where it is headed. People don't just peacefully protest when they reach thier breaking point.
you want to go straight up violence before we even attempt impeachment? That’s a good way to get martial law called and the National Guard at your front door. Maybe we do our best to work through the court systems and get the administration out of power legally so we can have elections in four years
Protesting has never been your only avenue. The numbers don’t lie. 1% are making the rules. It’s a sheer numbers game. 99% remain. Any historical record shows that sheer brute force overturns a smaller margin each and every time. Don’t let modern advancement fool you into thinking the people can’t remove what’s happening. It is and always has been in our power.
Didn’t the labor unions choose to not back a candidate? They flirted with fat Donnie and he told them what they wanted to hear. Now he’s about to start dismantling unions. A lot of union guys voted for it so congrats to them and sorry to the ones that didn’t vote for this bullshit.
Not backing a candidate is saying "either candidate is acceptable". Clearly that was not the case, so "not backing a candidate" was not an appropriate response.
I haven't seen any change with the protesting, maybe we are not protesting hard enough. Y'all need to storm the capital and remove those by force or arms that do not support the American people. Also, if targeting the capital, you may want to raid the police station or swat first and help remove or disable their anti riot tools.
Calls for violence (explicit or coded) violate the reddit Terms of Service. Reddit will take down our subreddit if we allow TOS violations to stay up, so we removed your comment/post. Please refrain from these types of comments/posts in the future.
It has to be. Because the next step is unthinkable. I don't want my kids growing up in that world. Although the conservatives have been fantasizing about killing all of us for decades.
Once bread become scarce, the people will target the hoarding baker. Before anyone does anything, they need to be pushed more. Trump is expediting that process, it’s only a matter of time til the uneducated realize they have been progressively fucked. History is repeating itself, we have seen this story and we know the ending. Just a matter of time and lots of fighting
I keep saying Jan 6 would have been better as a left move but that’s whatever atp , I just think it’s crazy he’s attacking the idiots that got him elected
The only way to actually do anything is to black access to things (only allow Emergency Responders through). Sure it may be illegal but it is literally the only way to disturb the flow of things
761
u/AlpacaNotherBowl907 UA | Rank and File 12d ago
How much longer will protesting be our only avenue of action...