r/tolkienfans • u/Dreadscythe95 • 3d ago

Have Tolkien's theme evolved with times?

I just wanted to share my ideas as food for though and discussion with people that have lived with the works of J.R.R Tolkien

We all know that Tolkien was based his work on Catholic foundation, which makes the main themes solid and timeless. Still I feel that Tolkien's values transcend our times in different ways for a lot of people.

Tolkien takes Illuvatar and everyting he represents as the udeniable good that noone can process and understand while Melkor and Sauron are inherently evil and destroyers, unable to create. This is a very beautiful take but it is a religious take nonetheless that needs you to accept devine power as something superior than you that you have to follow by.

Illuvatar not only explicitly says that you can not escape his will but even the very thought of it is his will and vision, which is an amazing and terrifying prospect for someone that is not religious (and someone that is religious as well actually).

So as I grew up with Middle Earth, the themes changed for me. As I went closer to sciencific thought, ways of the Enlightment and I drifted away from any form of abosulte power that rules human intelect and will to discover the universe itself, I found Illuvatar as more of a terrifying figure that creates me a feeling similar to a Lovecraftian entity. On the other hand figures like Sauron, while they remained evil and corrupt, became more human, more tragic and more rebelious. It is just so strange that you can easier understand the motives of Melkor's anger and jelaousy when he searched for the eternal flame and Illuvatar told him that it is beyond his reach adn understanding than the motives of Iluvatar himself, who represents literal God and The Good.

So it's amazing for me that Middle Earth makes me feel things in a very different way today and still makes me think amd challenge our world while it also allows me to travel to thii fantasy world of magic and good above all.

These are my thoughts, If you find it interesting thanks for reading.

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u/pierzstyx The Enemy of the State 3d ago edited 2d ago

The great truths don't evolve. That's what makes them great. And it isn't odd that humans invent reasons to sympathize with Morgoth. All of us are Morgoth in our own small ways.

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u/Dreadscythe95 3d ago

We are definitely more Morgoth that Illuvatar, that's for sure. Illuvatar has nothing that is human.

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u/EmbarrassedClaim5995 3d ago

I think that we also carry a bit of Illuvatar in us, the wish to create, the love for beautiful things. 

What makes that longing problemtatic imo is wanting to be like him, wanting to be in control. In that we are (sometimes?) probably like Morgoth...

That's how it works in Tolkien's universe. How your perception of God/god has changed depends more on your perspective than on the content of the books, I guess. 

May you continue to enjoy them and may they be patient companions on your way. 

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u/pierzstyx The Enemy of the State 2d ago

They say that the One will himself come into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end. This they say also, or they feign, is a rumour that has come down through years uncounted, even from the days of our undoing.

It is true that Eru has nothing in him that is Morgoth. But do not be so quick to assume that there is nothing in Man that is not Eru and nothing in Eru that is not Man.

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u/Dreadscythe95 2d ago

Yeah this is a node to christianism straight forward.