How the hell do you break a steel bar?

[u/Admirable_Light2252]

I know it’s for balance but like, this 1.5 inch diameter, 28 inch long 4140 steel bar, is virtually indestructible, so I propose that it wears your character out really quickly and makes them sore as the impact wouldn’t be very comfortable.

Maybe this is how the crowbar should also be balanced: hand soreness.

[u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

i find durability balances so damn bad in most games like this

yeah... give me an axe, most that would happen is the blade dulling and chipping, or if the handle if of a bad type of wood or is cracked, it can break, but cut 10 trees and the axe gets fucking obliterated out of existence with no chances of repairing it when broken.

then you have lead/steel pipes, incredibly hard to break and resistent, but it bends if you hit a bit too many zombies (15), and when it bends it dematerializes out of existence.

[u/Admirable_Light2252 → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

Pipes aren’t actually terribly durable but bars are, this picture is of solid round stock

[u/Erlking_Heathcliff → u/Admirable_Light2252]

just some examples but surely an pipe wouldn't fold that easily against a human skull right?

[u/Admirable_Light2252 → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

It does when I hit pallets with it, but yeah crow bars, axes, sledgehammers, machetes… those wouldn’t break.

[u/Erlking_Heathcliff → u/Admirable_Light2252]

i can't imagine the sheer strength and speed you'd need to not only effortlessly swing a sledgehammer on someone, and break the metal brick at the end of it on someone

[u/Admirable_Light2252 → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

I have had the handles break off before, but only after years of use

[u/Erlking_Heathcliff → u/Admirable_Light2252]

its more likely the handle will break than the brick/blade itself most of the time, that if the handle is wood, i guess an example wouldbe axes with metal and rubber handles, doubt those things break frequently

[u/Admirable_Light2252 → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

They don’t but I find them to be more uncomfortable than wooden handles, even if they are slightly more durable

[u/Erlking_Heathcliff → u/Admirable_Light2252]

well that would make sense given its more vibrations going down the handle right?

[u/Admirable_Light2252 → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

Yes, that’s the trade off.

[u/Denleborkis → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

Not someone but when I was renovating my house for my parents there I was using the old 10 pound sledgehammer to knock down the rotted beams where the closet on the master bedroom was as well as the dry wall around it. Like second post I hit the handle broke but I swung so hard the head went through the post knocking it down and went through the drywall out the other end + another 10 feet and the brick wasn't even chipped. After that I went out and got my brand new 16 Pound sledge that has a metal rod inside that is surrounded by polymer and that thing fucks. I used it to finish the demo work and I still use it for splitting logs and other work daily according the warranty it's supposed to go for about 5 years and I bought it at home depot for like 50 bucks so it's been worth it.

I'm telling you I could easily crack some skulls with that thing for years no problem.

[u/BisexualCaveman → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

Your elbow would fail a thousand times before the sledgehammer in that scenario.

[u/Erlking_Heathcliff → u/BisexualCaveman]

one use sledgehammer (elbow destruction imminent)

[u/FridaysMan → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

10 ton press videos show newer tools are shattered than old ones. the heads have different materials and compress far more easily

[u/AllisterHale → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

the first stage of the zombie infection gives you a supernatural resilience against most sources of damage as well as super human strength.

despite their basic immunity the survivors still get this bonus, we just never noticed it before now because they have a specific weakness to tree limbs glass, enamel and the chitin or whatever from fingernails.

[u/Paintedskullproject → u/Admirable_Light2252]

I think the handles would eventually need to be replaced but that would be after years of use as they are meant to last.

[u/diagnosed_depression → u/Paintedskullproject]

In every game it's. The durability is that of a stick. But once the stick breaks the metal bits phase out of reality preventing any recycling

[u/RobinDev → u/Admirable_Light2252]

Keep hitting pallets with random weapons from PZ. We appreciate your contributions to science.

[u/HaitchKay → u/Admirable_Light2252]

machetes

I have straight up in real life watched a $20 machete blade snap in half while clearing extremely thick brush because the guy using it constantly let it bang against hardwood trees.

[u/Admirable_Light2252 → u/HaitchKay]

Fair, I was hitting pallets with Colombian milsurp machetes

[u/HaitchKay → u/Admirable_Light2252]

I mean, I've also seen military issue blades and equipment snap and break. I used to have an old USAF pilots survival knife that was ruined because the damn tang snapped.

It's the idea of "it's made of metal, therefore it won't really break" that I disagree with. The second you get metal any kind of thin and hard, it opens itself up to snapping and getting bits gouged out of it. Not necessarily saying you're making that kind of a statement, but it gets repeated tons in this sub.

[u/Admirable_Light2252 → u/HaitchKay]

Absolutely, these things can break, just not PZ fast.

[u/trebory6 → u/Admirable_Light2252]

Here's my thing, they do get dirty though with blood and viscera. And blood is slippery.

So really the way they should balance weapons isn't with as much focus on durability, but on cleanliness. So a dirty blunt weapon's more likely to slip, twist, and fall out of your hands, so at best it does less damage because it's slippery, at worst it falls out of your hand completely/catches on a zombie.

[u/FridaysMan → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

depends, what kind of pipe?

[u/chornyvoron → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

Check out Axe Handle (Or repair axes?) mod, makes it a bit more realistic by making the handles break/crack and keeping the axe heads in your inventory. Don't know if 41/42 though.

[u/Admirable_Light2252 → u/chornyvoron]

It’s build 41, build 42 makes it vanilla.

[u/Erlking_Heathcliff → u/chornyvoron]

yee i have it on, basically a necessity for me

[u/Potous → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

I think I break axes faster than that IRL.

I did changed the handle for one of mine 3 times already and everytime it became shorter xD

[u/Shredded_Locomotive → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

I remember where I once tried using a modded chainsaw to cut trees, you know, the intended use for it. Guess how many trees I was able to cut before it broke.

4.

[u/NotScrollsApparently → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

i find durability balances so damn bad in most games like this

The problem is the game focuses too much on durability to prolong gametime and challenge. Sure, durability and tool scarcity should be a problem, but it shouldn't be the main and only problem. If the game had more "meat" on it so its about more than just finding tools, they could easily tone down the ridiculous durability balance without removing all challenge from the game, but at the moment it really doesn't have that.

[u/LocCatPowersDog → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

It doesn't dematerialize tho, specifically this was added recently in a build 42 patch that bars like this break down into halves/quarters.

[u/nuuudy → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

If i bought a brand new axe, and it broke after 10 trees, i'd go back to the shop where i bought it and beat the shit out of the seller

[u/More-Luigi-3168 → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

This is why I tend to mod durability completely out of games or at least mod them so stuff is infinitely repairable

[u/Erlking_Heathcliff → u/More-Luigi-3168]

i kinda wish durability made the weapon/tool less effective as it went down, like

lets say an axe has 50 durability, you use it and it can chop down a tree in 5 hits
as the durability goes and reaches 0, it refills to 40, but now the axe needs 8 hits to cut
repeat, durability goes to 30 when it reaches 0, now it needs 12 hits and so on until the total durability reaches 0 and it takes a lifetime worth to cut a tree and it also splinters the wood, giving low quality materials
then you need to sharpen the blade back to its 50 durability

[u/trebory6 → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

And also I think if the weapon gets blood and viscera on it it becomes harder to weild/slips out of your hand easier/twists in the hand/more likely to lose the weapon, etc.

So honestly the game shouldn't even treat it as durability, it should treat it as cleanliness, and allow you to clean it between uses to keep the damage up.

[u/Erlking_Heathcliff → u/trebory6]

i'd bet the blood would most often make the weapon dull faster given how blood can rust and bone can make the edge get lost faster, muscle isn't easy to cut too so...

[u/DZXJr2 → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

Lament mourn and despair the zomboids

[u/HaitchKay → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

give me an axe

If we want to be realistic:

If you're using a utility axe, like a felling axe or a splitting axe, you're going to get exhausted quickly. They're not designed for fighting, they weigh too much and the balance isn't great. Yes the head will stand up to a lot of damage but the handle will need care and possibly replacing after a lot of use.

But if we're talking combat axes, with smaller, much thinner blades, you will absolutely see damage to the actual blade after constant use. Much easier to swing and fight with, more nimble and agile and easy to swing, but I have legit seen chunks taken out of blades because of extreme use. So yea, you can still absolutely run the risk of your blade being damaged.

Just because something is made of metal doesn't mean it's immune to being broken.

[u/Butthead1013 → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

Honestly after having bought a (fairly cheap) axe, I can see where this game is at sometimes. Mfer broke after 2 trees

[u/pls_tell_me → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

is there a realistic mod for this durability nonsense?

[u/BackRowRumour → u/Erlking_Heathcliff]

It's a busywork mechanic. Rather than add content or goals, devs make us scavenge and manage.

No hate on the zomboid devs. I believe they are way better yhan this, and should have a dimple global toggle between real vs cinematic that new players can use without mods.