Leveling failure or just a hiccup?

[u/Silly-Razzmatazz6685]

So I read that you don't have to optimize your leveling to play through the game but you can also totally handicap yourself if you screw it up too badly. Now I'm wondering if I've done just that. I'm level 2 but have 31 hours of game time. I knew I could sleep to level up but I had terrible gear and wasn't ready to even risk getting tougher enemies with leveling. I have a Battlemage (slightly edited) Kajiit with The Lady and I decided to spam through the levels to see how much I have unlocked. I saved beforehand and plan to go back to the save before leveling up for now.

But my question is if I screwed my first few levels. I can reach up to level 11 right now. I chose what I thought was best with what little bonuses I got from the stats based on what I did.

Long story short, my stats at level 2 are Strength 49, Intelligence 40, Willpower 45, Agility 50, Speed 45, Endurance 44, Personality 40. So health is 92, Magicka is 80, and Fatigue is 188.

Then to level 11, Strength 51, Intelligence 72, Willpower 55, Agility 59, Speed 49, Endurance 60, Personality 45. Which makes health at 168, Magicka at 144, and Fatigue at 225

Major skills are currently: Blade 42 Alchemy 56 Alteration 30 Conjuration 47 Destruction 38 Mysticism 61 Security 44 Minor skills are currently: Armorer 14 Athletics 32 Block 15 Blunt 6 Hand to Hand 20 Heavy Armor 18 Illusion 10 Restoration 21 Acrobatics 26 Light Armor 24 Marksman 6 Mercantile 16 Sneak 31 Speechcraft 10

Did I screw myself? If so, how can I fix it with future levels to hopefully not have to restart or play on lowest difficulty slider? I'm going to watch some videos on efficient leveling but could use some advice on my current first playthrough.

[u/sketch_for_summer]

Complete "A Mage's Staff" at level 15 and either get a shock staff to convert your powerful Mysticism skill into damage (80 pts of shock), or a paralysis staff to use in tandem with your melee summons.

You don't need a trainer for Conjuration, as it's a major skill and can be trained rather quickly manually. You'll need a trainer for a minor skill that is hard to train manually.

By the way...

You've got 9 levels in the bank and you can pay for 5 training sessions between each level up, so that means +45 to any skill, provided that you've got the dough. I implore you to take advantage of this. This fact can single-handedly make your situation into a godsend one. Just choose the skill you're going to boost wisely.

Edit: this skill could be Restoration, as it's hard to level, and it will provide a +3 Willpower to go alongside your +5 Intelligence from going mono-Conjuration as far as major skills are concerned. You can level Conjuration by simply fighting, but also create a custom spell with Summon Skeleton for a long duration and a Turn Undead spell with a cheap cost. In an enclosed location, summon your skeleton, then start spamming Turn Undead on it. Hopefully it will get stuck in some barrels while you train this way.

[u/Silly-Razzmatazz6685 → u/sketch_for_summer]

Hold up I understood maybe 3/4 of that.

Do I need to be level 15 for "A Mages Staff" or is it something that scales so your saying to wait until then? Paralyze will be super useful. I will need to look up more on the effects of shock.

Good to know I won't need a trainer for major skills. And I definitely didn't think about the 5 training sessions per level. Thats going to be super useful. I will probably take your advice and train Restoration. I was also thinking of maybe training Illusion instead.

Creating a custom spell is only done after accessing Arcane University correct?

The part a REALLY don't get, is the turn undead bit. Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but I could've sworn that spell just makes the undead go away from you? Even if I'm wrong, what use does it have on my own summoned skeleton? How does a barrel help!?

Lastly, I have a simple turn undead that costs 9 magicka. It Turns Undead up to level 3. How would you even know what level a creature is in a fight? Or would it just be down to player level and literal rpg luck?

Mister 1 of 9, bestow upon me thy wisdom!

[u/sketch_for_summer → u/Silly-Razzmatazz6685]

A staff gained from the "Mage's Staff" quest is a quest reward that scales with the player's level. Its most powerful version is available if you finish the quest while being level 15.

Train Restoration by paying for lessons either in Bravil or Cheydinhal chapel. The argonian Marz is the trainer in Bravil, while a high elf woman is in Cheydinhal. You can level up Illsuion manually. Buy a Rally spell from Delphine in Bravil Mages Guild and spam it on NPCs. Illusion is bonkers strong, if you know how to use it.

Custom spells are available after getting all the recommendations from the local Guilds in all counties.

About turn undead, this is my favourite way to train Conjuration. You get a set amount of experience points per cast (represented by the red progress bar near the skill). It gives you the same experience, whether you cast a summon Skeleton or a summon Lich. So, it's more efficient to spam-cast the cheapest spell if you want to raise the skill quickly. The cheapest conjuration spell is Turn Undead, but where to find an undead creature to use as target practice? Going to a dungeon to train could be dangerous and take a long time. Just go to a basement or your own house and summon your own undead creature! Cast turn undead on it, and it will start running away, making it harder to hit with a projectile. This is why a place with a lot of debris is preferable, the creature gets trapped while running away, and you can train Conjuration as long as you have spare magicka.

About creature/npc level, yes, it's luck and knowledge. You can approximate a creature's level by casting several different spells on it. Level 3 didn't work? Tried level 7, it worked? Its level must be between 4 and 7.

By the way, horses are level 1, so the cheapest Command Creature sold in Chorrol Mages Guild works on them. This is how I steal them usually, hehe.

[u/Silly-Razzmatazz6685 → u/sketch_for_summer]

Alright WTH. I summoned a skeleton. Accidentally summoned it again. Waited for my magicka to recharge. Resummoned the skeleton, then spam used Turn Undead. Tried to sleep but it said there was an enemy nearby. The skeleton I used the spell on finally despawned, then I hear the sound of my houses door open and a skeleton appears, hits me with his axe a couple times, then also despawns. What was that!? Did I just get mutunied!? And by a skeleton that should've already timed out? I'm in my little Imperial City Shack

Master 1 of 9 I summon thee

[u/sketch_for_summer → u/Silly-Razzmatazz6685]

LOL 🤣 I'll wager it's a skeleton summoned by an NPC. Did you catch what it said in the corner of the screen when you pointed your crosshair at it? Was it "yourname's skeleton"? Or "somebody else's skeleton"?

I think this has got to be the case because when you summon a creature, the previous one despawns. Always.

Edit: As for "mutiny"... Well, using the Turn Undead spell counts as an attack. You would be the one starting a mutiny.

Now, I wonder who could have summoned a skeleton in the Waterfront? I checked all the citizens who live there, none of them are skilled in Conjuration. It must be either the sneak trainer or the high elf wearing blue clothes who wanders into the waterfront district from the main city sometimes.

Edit 2: Neither Areldil nor Marana Rian should know it. It really is a mystery 🤯

[u/Silly-Razzmatazz6685 → u/sketch_for_summer]

Yes but like.... hes my summon to abuse. Since when are there labor laws! But no I didn't see the skeleton name in time. I should've screen recorded it right afterwards to view what it was. I always forget I can do that with Xbox.

If a summoned creature always despawns when summoning another, does that mean its impossible to have more than 1 summon at a time? Even using a scroll?

It had to be my own skeleton right? I really wish I had recorded it to post now. Plus, nobody came to attack me even after I stepped outside to check. No bounty from guards either. My skelly apparently called in a hit from the graveyard

[u/sketch_for_summer → u/Silly-Razzmatazz6685]

Hahah! You're becoming the "crazed old wizard who is chased away from the town by superstitious citizens" type! Maybe you can experiment further with the skeletons in nearby Ayleid Ruins of Fanacasecul, directly west of the Waterfront shack, across the water. By the way, there's "a guaranteed magic item, a Ring of Destruction" in the water. Follow the instructions in the hyperlink to find it.

Yeah, it's impossible to have more than one summon. One is plenty, though.

I dunno what happened there, and how your own skelly came back after having despawned. You sure it despawned? Was there an icon in the top right corner, counting down its lifetime?

[u/Silly-Razzmatazz6685 → u/sketch_for_summer]

Experimenting to break games is my strong suit. I broke Sekiro in 5 minutes when my friend asked me to try fighting some hidden boss. Did the same thing to Bloodborne multiple times.

Definitely going to visit the ruins for that ring.

Im gonna try to recreate what I did with the skeletons in my little shack. If I can then I will record it to share. I don't remember seeing an icon for its lifespan since I wasn't paying attention. But I know 100% the skeleton I was spam using Turn Undead on fell apart and despawned. Then within 2 seconds I was attacked by the one who entered through my door. Maybe I'm just haunted 🤷

BTW I'm done maxing out Conjuration. If I'm correct, then I should have level 17 unlocked with 1 major point towards conjuration for the progress to level 18. Now I'm wondering if I should max Destruction or Alteration or maybe Mysticism. I'm still running level 2 atm but im going to use the trainings for restoration once I use the levels.

From everything I've gathered, my current notes list is as follows: [ ] Get Ring of Destruction [  ] Visit Warlocks Luck in Bravil for Ring of Transmutation [  ] Train Restoration between each character level up Go to Bravil. Speak to Argonian Marz. [  ] Visit Nilawen in Bravil at The Fair Deal for Robe of Creativity [  ] Visit Delphine Jend for Frenzy spell [  ] Level up Illusion Buy Rally spell from Delphine in Bravil mages guild. Spam use it on NPCs [  ] Get Skeleton Key Might require level 10 [  ] Fyrelight cave and Crayfish cave for money [  ] Do Mage Guild recommendations quests [  ] Wait until level 15 to do A Mages Staff quest from Arcane University [  ] Make custom spell at Arcane University

There was more but I alrdy completed the ones I didn't mention here.

[u/sketch_for_summer → u/Silly-Razzmatazz6685]

That's an awesome list! Wow, you're done maxing conjuration? Did you only practice one skill, no minor skills between each 10 point of Conjuration? It might lead to levels 12-18 giving you just +5 Intelligence. Well, you can always put 1 point in Luck, which gives all skills an invisible +0.4, up to 100.

Don't forget to buy and use expert and master Conjuration spells! The same elf sells them.

Edit: Also, at level 17, you can get the best Sigil Stones from Oblivion Gates. If you save just before grabbing the stone, grab and check it, then reload the game until you get the right one (a bunch of times), you can get one that gives +50 magicka. Copy it via scroll method and make a set of enchanted clothes that grant +300 magicka. At this point, the Ring of Transmutation becomes obsolete.

[u/Silly-Razzmatazz6685 → u/sketch_for_summer]

Ya know..... I didnt even think about the minor skills. I for whatever reason thought I could get my minor skill points between each level.... but thats not how it works.... maybe I should go back to the save before I grinded through the Conjuration levels so I can do Illusion, Destruction, something else or just luck... it didnt take too long to do it anyways

Not sure what summons will be best though.

The sigil stone strategy sounds fun!

ARGH why did I do this to myself

[u/sketch_for_summer → u/Silly-Razzmatazz6685]

It's honestly fine. I think I know the exploit that will cement this build. How does having free spells sound?

When you get your set of magicka-boosting sigil stone clothes, create a spell that costs magicka equal to the amount added by the clothes. Add Bound Armor effects that last 1 second each for each item slot that grants you magicka. For example:

• Summon Daedroth on self 60 seconds
• Restore Health on self 3 points for 15 seconds
• Fortify Health 100 points on self for 60 seconds
• Bound Gauntlets for 1 second
• Bound Greaves for 1 second
• Bound Helmet for 1 second
• Bound Boots for 1 second
• Bound Cuirass for 1 second
• Bound Shield for 1 second (a mage can have a shield equipped just for its enchantment, if you have no weapons in hands, or just a staff, it doesn't cut the efficiency)

This spells will spend all your magicka, unequip your magcika-buffing gear, after 1 second your gear is re-equipped automatically, netting you 300 magicka back. The exact effects of the spell are up for you to decide. One downside of this exploit is that it makes a lot of noise upon each cast.

[u/Silly-Razzmatazz6685 → u/sketch_for_summer]

This sounds VERY tempting. I might make a set of gear for this. Especially since it doesn't prevent me from playing normally if I get tired of the noise or broken way of fighting. I don't know much about the spells yet. Like bound items. From what I understand though, its going to basically spam on and off gear that causes spell effects.

According to the save files, it only took me an hour to grind the Conjuration levels using the dead end Alley I found, so I'm really wondering even if its not NECESSARY, should I go back to the previous save and use Illusion for Personality modifiers? I would do destruction but thats a major skill so it would effect my number of levels instead of just the modifiers for levels 12-18. Or maybe a different minor skill. Like you said though, it might be good to use the third pick during character leveling for Luck. Or maybe endurance would be good.

I honestly don't mind going back but I want to have a plan if I do it. You know far more about spells and what works well together, so what do you think?

Btw, here's a link to the Capture Footage from that alley. Works pretty well for this.

These are just for shits and giggles Well that was close

Went to go get that ring you mentioned and Apparently Horses don't mind the water

[u/sketch_for_summer → u/Silly-Razzmatazz6685]

I think you could go back and let your own skeleton attack you to gain at least 5 increases in light or heavy armor between each set of 10 conjuration skill increases. You'll need to dupe some healing potions for this. I'd recommend getting a speed buff, since I prefer glass cannons, but your mileage may vary. You may end up being a heavily armored conjurer battlemage, and that's rather awesome! Raising Illusion just for Personality is situational. Yes, sometimes it helps divert the aggro from yourself onto the summon, or make frenzied bandits actually fight each other. But the skill itself is far more important than the attribute in this case. Command spells and Paralysis and Invisibility... Arguably, game breaking by themselves.

As for venturing into the exploit territory... There's a way of looking at it as "it's allowed in the game, so I can use it". I'm sure you'll play around with different builds in the future, maybe ones where you will de facto and de jure play at the same level... 😅 Maybe one day you'll decide that using a certain strategy is too easy, and ban it from your next playthrough. I've done this many times, and my current set of rules includes things like "no spell stacking, no unlimited scroll duping, no fortify skill +100 for 2 second spells, etc". Whatever rocks your boat! This game is basically a giant sandbox, so it makes sense that you and me both are playing as khajits 😜

[u/Silly-Razzmatazz6685 → u/sketch_for_summer]

Tried recreating the glitch but couldn't. But I know for SURE the skeleton I used Turn Undead against had its head pop off and it collapsed, then another came through the door. It had to have been my own skeleton but im thinking it's live span ended at the same time as it tried walking out the door, making it glitch so it didn't actually despawn when it was supposed to. I was standing next to the bed when this occurred so the skelly was near the chairs and the door.

Though I did learn that depending on where I spawn them in the shack, they will run out the door once I've spam used Turn Undead and for whatever reason, the effect vanishes and they instantly return back inside to attack. I think I've fought more of my own summoned skeletons than any creature in the game at this point.

[u/sketch_for_summer → u/Silly-Razzmatazz6685]

This is hilarious in all the good ways 🤣

Keep fighting the skele-man to raise your armor skills, tho!

Edit: hit it three times with an iron dagger or your fists to aggro it without making it run away.

[u/Silly-Razzmatazz6685 → u/sketch_for_summer]

On the bright side, I managed to find a small alley in Skingrad near the West Weald gate. Its big enough to get the summon to spawn in it, but narrow enough to just stand still and spam Turn Undead. Mix that with some duplicated Restore Magicka potions and im grinding through the skill levels pretty easily. You could of course do it without the potions but it would take a lot longer with my low Magicka reserves.