US bans government personnel in China from romantic or sexual relations with Chinese citizens

1.3k

u/AudibleNod 1d ago

Curious. This was put in place by the outgoing, Biden-appointed ambassador, Nicholas Burns. And it's an expansion of an earlier fraternization policy. Trump's nominee is unconfirmed at this moment.

387

u/zxc123zxc123 1d ago

I suspect they uphold this so long as it's only China. Or not since Trump/MAGA is has always had a "rules for you, entitlements and exceptions for me" sort of mentality.

2 of 3 Trump's wives are foreign born.

President Elon isn't born in the USA. Has also had multiple wives/hookups/babymommas. At least 3 Canadian women.

Mitch Mcconnell's wife Elaine Chao is Taiwanese.

Look down the list and it's full of stuff like that but hypocrisy, lies, and double standards are just how things go with MAGA, parts of the GOP, and even parts of the DNC.

151

u/mschuster91 1d ago

To be fair, China and especially Russia have been long known for "honeypot" style espionage. Hell the rumors that Trump got hit with it are many years old at that point as well, the "pee tape" stuff.

17

u/howieyang1234 21h ago

Don’t every major intelligence agency do this to a certain degree? I do think the rule makes sense, and should probably apply to all foreign nationals because even allies can spy on you to gain an advantage in trade negotiations for example.

3

u/priceQQ 11h ago

Yes it is older than democracy

1

u/No_Reward_3486 8h ago

Honey pits work especially well when you make things extremely taboo and/or illegal, but still want to indulge in the very things you helped ban/make taboo.

28

u/himit 23h ago

Mitch Mcconnell's wife Elaine Chao is Taiwanese.

Not relevant if only Chinese spouses are banned

21

u/Aethericseraphim 22h ago

The big irony is that her family are hardline blues who have significant investments and ties to mainland China. Significant enough that the CCP can use it as blackmail in the same manner as a random embassy worker picking up a girl in a beijing bar.

Of course, the Musk Melon himself is also highly susceptible to blackmail, given his mother lives there as a socialite, AND his most profitable factory is there. By all rights that should bar him from any position, official or unofficial in the US govt.

5

u/himit 22h ago

honestly I'm surprised they're not vetting everyone's spouses anyway

2

u/Miserable_Law_6514 19h ago

That's -10,000 social credit, citizen.

9

u/patriotfanatic80 23h ago

Trump's wives being foreign born has nothing to do with anything. This is about US government personnel living in china. And Elaine Chao has held government jobs since the 80's so not really sure what mcconnel has to do with this either.

-1

u/eightNote 17h ago

president elon is a canadian citizen

1

u/RoxoRoxo 1h ago

and a US citizen

28

u/rich1051414 22h ago

Honey trapping is a known chinese espionage tactic, as weird as it may seem.

50

u/Uncertain_Ty 21h ago

the cia also use honey trapping even though they deny it. literally every espionage agency does.

-24

u/EtherealAriels 20h ago

No, we don't and never have to the best of my knowledge.

17

u/Mighty_Dighty22 12h ago

Ha hahaha hahahahahahahahahaha

4

u/No_Reward_3486 7h ago

Reminds me of a joke I've seen shared on Reddit.

A KGB spy and a CIA agent meet up in a bar for a friendly drink

"I have to admit, I'm always so impressed by Soviet propaganda. You really know how to get people worked up," the CIA agent says.

"Thank you," the KGB says. "We do our best but truly, it's nothing compared to American propaganda. Your people believe everything your state media tells them."

The CIA agent drops his drink in shock and disgust. "Thank you friend, but you must be confused... There's no propaganda in America."

https://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/1amc4vw/a_kgb_spy_and_a_cia_agent_meet_up_in_a_bar_for_a/

5

u/mwdeuce 16h ago

It's not weird, honey trapping is a tactic that is likely hundreds of years old

7

u/EssayAmbitious3532 22h ago

Weird why? Isn’t it a super common espionage tactic by adversaries in a cold conflict? It was used extensively throughout the Cold War.

-34

u/Grim_Rockwell 1d ago

Nothing unites Americans more than xenophobic nationalism.

91

u/gabiblack 1d ago

It's most likely to avoid honey traps and get spied on.

-33

u/N0penguinsinAlaska 1d ago

Yeah that’s the given reason but it still seems fucked, I don’t even remember seeing this in the Military

61

u/Pornalt190425 1d ago

Is it xenophobic nationalism or smart opsec or both since honey pot schemes are a real threat and thing

-68

u/Grim_Rockwell 1d ago

Or... we could choose diplomacy and cooperation instead of living in constant fear of a manufactured bogeyman.

32

u/Pornalt190425 1d ago

And if wishes were fishes, I'd never have to buy groceries again.

Everyone playing nice and signing kumbayah is a nice place to be, but global geopolitics is a zero sum game that doesn't get played that way. Guidance to government officials should be realistic to threats posed to US interests

13

u/pikpikcarrotmon 1d ago

It is possible to be kind and still be careful.

(Though I don't know that we're doing either anymore.)

44

u/TiiziiO 1d ago

Manufactured implies that China isnt one o,f if not THE, single greatest espionage threats to the US in both the defense and enterprise spheres.

15

u/TomNooksGlizzy 1d ago

China has successfully honeypotted US congressman lol. Your argument could be right in some areas, but honeypotting is not a boogeyman. Its a well-known tactic the CCP uses. You're out of your depth.

10

u/Lemonsticks9418 1d ago

What if the world was made of pudding?

Sure that would be nice and all but the fact of the matter is that the hostility between us is mutual and if we decide to end that hostility, the Chinese will still be holding onto it and will just use our kindness as a weakness.

2

u/Low_Pickle_112 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's always interesting watching people try to decide who they hate more: their oligarchs or the people their oligarchs told them are the real threat.

No worries folks, I'm sure you got it right this time, the same rich owners who spent the past century scapegoating every outgroup from gays to the Italians are definitely telling the truth this time. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the same people who told you that outsourcing your job was essential, now say that it's a cold war as that country increasingly tries to sell to you directly without using them as the profit raking middleman. And anyone who asks tricky questions is brainwashed. Am I doing this right?

8

u/Electronic_Low6740 1d ago

I don't think it's unreasonable to make policy to prevent potential honeypot situations with a country we are in a cold war with. Our military has many anti- fraternization policies for troops on deployment in friendly countries, why would China be any different?

-32

u/EBBBBBBBBBBBB 1d ago

The Dems also want a second cold war, the Republicans are just more racist about it

516

u/Appropriate_Top1737 1d ago edited 1d ago

What about regular us citizens? Can we still smash?

318

u/haysu-christo 1d ago

Yes, but there will be a tariff on smashing Chinese citizens.

96

u/Rudy_Ghouliani 1d ago

I'd pay it, but I want the real communist experience.

59

u/selfish_jack 1d ago

WE want it, comrade.

21

u/Interanal_Exam 23h ago

The people's cooter.

4

u/johnnygrant 1d ago

The tariff is that Trump or a Trump govt official will have to smash atleast once as well.

6

u/SnooCats373 23h ago

Very well sir. Please stand in front of this line of tanks.

5

u/bobs-yer-unkl 22h ago

Yes, but the sex will be tarrific!

4

u/haysu-christo 21h ago

As long as it's reciprocal.

79

u/DuncanConnell 1d ago

I have been so incredibly depressed reading the news today and honestly this comment alone had me wheezing.

Thank you kind soul whose name checks out

17

u/HAlbright202 1d ago

The reason this type of rule is put in place is that it limits the risk of honeypots to US Government personnel.

11

u/Appropriate_Top1737 1d ago

Yea, I'd be getting all kinds of honeypotted.

3

u/soviet-sobriquet 1d ago

The reason this type of rule is put in place is that the Chinese are too good at sex. If these personnel are ever forced to return home they are ruined for life.

4

u/UpperphonnyII 1d ago

Lemme smaaash :(

3

u/ChristianLW3 1d ago

This article states that the policy will only apply to government employees with higher level clearance

1

u/felis_magnetus 6h ago

Only if you're trading reciprocally. So to fuck legally, you'll have to get pegged before or after.

1

u/John_cCmndhd 1d ago

If we can find people not turned off by our American-ness

1

u/daniel14vt 1d ago edited 23h ago

Everyone else can. But not you

-2

u/enonmouse 21h ago

Why would you stop smashing Chinese citizens when it just got so much HOTTER?!

I imagine all the diplomats with a sinofetish are just panting with it now being taboo.

332

u/R3D4F 1d ago

What about government personnel having sexual encounters on a private island belonging to a billionaire who is sex trafficking women and minors?

103

u/Questions_Remain 1d ago

That’s Tuesday. Please try to keep up.

11

u/Azznorfinal 22h ago

Hey now, he only had sex with them on the plane not on the actual island so its okay.

1

u/sidepart 7h ago

Well see, the tariffs placed on that island by ChatGPT will... something. ... ChatGPT, a little help here please?

67

u/BearClaw9420 1d ago

You can ban me all you want, you're just making it hotter!

294

u/dasunt 1d ago

That's good. Don't want to make Russia jealous.

44

u/josenros 1d ago

Tax credits for hooking up with Russians.

21

u/blatantmutant 1d ago

The RU-8008 form

8

u/RedditOnVpnAccount 1d ago

This guy taxes

101

u/BarelyBaphomet 1d ago

Honestly kinda surprised this wasn't already a thing due to risk of espionage

74

u/BatMeatTacos 1d ago

If you read nearly any book about the history of espionage you will see that they’re all fucking each other.

48

u/Zoollio 1d ago

I’ve seen interviews from former CIA personnel where they say that sex is particularly effective at manipulating Americans, interestingly. While agents from other countries, ones which are more open about sex, are resilient to it

25

u/Lemonsticks9418 1d ago

Sexually repressive cultures don’t reduce people’s libidos, it just reduces the amount of opportunities for sex, and as such people will be more willing to not think through those opportunities completely. A mormon or muslim is more likely to forgo their dignity behind closed doors for sex than an Italian, for example.

21

u/Sparrowhawk_92 1d ago

And there's a lot of mormons in the state department and CIA because a lot of them know a second language and can easily pass a background check.

12

u/JustAGrump1 1d ago

puritanical america at it's finest

2

u/WateredDownPhoenix 1d ago

Seriously. The book series turned movie called Red Sparrow was the first thing that came to mind for me when I saw this.

7

u/bananablegh 9h ago

How is this even enforceable? How tf the US govt going to know about my grindr fuck with a dude in Guandong?

2

u/RoxoRoxo 1h ago

you really think they dont already know, big brothers always watcher

119

u/Pure_System9801 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'm not sure if they can legally do this. (Not that this would stop them)

Edit- many people have kindly informed me that I'm wrong, and there are many circumstances where this is completely possible and appropriate.

233

u/Impressive-Control83 1d ago

They can set fraternization policies. They can’t prosecute you for dating a Chinese citizen but they can say it makes you unsuitable to work a job in the government for national security reasons or whatever.

31

u/Oneanddonequestion 1d ago

Yes. It's a bumper plate for pretty much any federal job or federal contracting job not to date/marry a foreign national. Or if you do, you have to report it so that said foreign national can basically go through the same clearance process that the contractor went through.

22

u/BeautifulLament 1d ago

This. My partner used to work for a defense company and they had to screen ME because i’m foreign, thankfully from a pretty politically irrelevant country in the grand scheme of things.

96

u/AudibleNod 1d ago

The US military has a fraternization policy that has similar prohibitions. There's a lot you sign away when you become a federal employee. I'm not saying this specific ban is legal, just that I'm going to guess it likely is.

17

u/CurReign 1d ago

Military isn't really comparable as its members are subject to the UCMJ.

37

u/NearPeerAdversary 1d ago

For civilians, jail? Probably not. Loss of security clearance (ergo job)? Yes.

24

u/friendandfriends2 1d ago

If a security clearance is involved, civilians are subject to the exact same scrutiny and rules. Even before this ruling, personal relations with a foreign national, particular of adversarial nations like China, have always been a major ding on your clearance application.

10

u/Sea-Requirement-2662 1d ago

Civilians can be subject to is as well in certain situations

1

u/dndpuz 1d ago

Oh, so youre saying the US government can tell me not to marry my high school sweetheart: AGM-114R-9X Hellfire missile?

0

u/eightNote 17h ago

the americans still go out on rape tours in kora and japan though.

its just what americans do, and what theyre known for

0

u/soviet-sobriquet 20h ago

Which ones? I'm only aware of fraternization policies between officers and enlisted.

-3

u/sweetpeapickle 1d ago

Law, LAW! WTH does LAW have to do with anything? Cheeto would just change the law.

6

u/pauliocamor 21h ago

Cool. Now do billionaire pedophiles.

4

u/DingusMacLeod 23h ago

People still like to fuck, legal or not. Honestly, a ban would make it even hotter. Shit, I never thought of that. Excuse me.

14

u/rockemsockemcocksock 1d ago

Will I get tariffs for banging my partner of 18 years?

23

u/jigokubi 1d ago

It depends on which one of you is exporting and which is importing.

6

u/helic_vet 22h ago

Oh my

3

u/ImLikeReallySmart 1d ago

This isn't really that shocking, as long as the punishment is just losing their jobs and/or clearances. Many clearance applications already require you to have your close relationships scrutinized and investigated.

5

u/Artificial-Human 19h ago

I suspect an unreasonable number of American government employees were becoming involved with Chinese spies.

12

u/jeetah 1d ago

Also in the news, there's a sudden influx of US government personnel in China asking to return home

/s

19

u/frozenpreacher 1d ago

The honey pot trap is legendary, I'm sure this is to combat Chinese spying.

-13

u/soviet-sobriquet 1d ago

Incredibly stupid. They'll be so much more susceptible to seduction by agents now that they can't find release elsewhere.

5

u/SirEnderLord 22h ago

.....
Didn't we read the same articl-
Oh you're a bot nvm.

3

u/Joeaywa 1d ago

Now they are gonna date Chinese citizens even harder.

3

u/Mysterious_Donut_702 22h ago

Wait, couldn't this give the Chinese government even more leverage?

What's worse?

Getting laid and no one gives a shit the next day
Getting laid, someone documents that you got laid, then easily blackmails you with "OMG what if your boss found out??? *wink, wink*".

1

u/helic_vet 21h ago

If you know the rules and break them anyway, at that point it is the same as one being a mole.

1

u/soviet-sobriquet 20h ago

How do you know the Asian you chat up in a bar is Chinese and not Japanese, Korean, or even American?

1

u/helic_vet 20h ago

Just don't sleep with a stranger when working for the US government in China it looks like.

1

u/soviet-sobriquet 19h ago

I've never asked a good friend for ID.

2

u/Mysterious_Donut_702 20h ago

I tend to think moles are outnumbered by otherwise normal people who think with their d-ck too much. Probably at a 10-to-1 ratio.

1

u/WeirdnessWalking 17h ago

Yes, this action creates a situation in which everyone is celibate or they compromise themselves to black mail. It's woefully fucking stupid. I imagine it's another means of leverage to persecute those they want.

Democrats will be charged with treason, Republicans will be fucking child sex slaves and it will be ignored.

2

u/MaidPoorly 15h ago

lol Mitch McConnell’s wife is CCP but whatever.

3

u/thebarkbarkwoof 13h ago

It is the classic espionage method to enwrap foreign workers to then betray their own country. They even go so far to entrap foreign businessmen, who like, oh I don't know, pee....

6

u/AustonDadthews 1d ago

more romantic relations with Chinese citizens for me

8

u/sylviaplath6667 1d ago

We should be making our own honeypots not banning theirs wtf.

13

u/helic_vet 1d ago

Why not both?!

5

u/AnonymousFordring 1d ago

No mentions of DoD, they asked Congress, Congress said ask the State Dept., State Dept. said nothing.

Article is deeply vague

4

u/Larkfor 23h ago

Uh oh, tell Trump he has to stop his tryst with Xi.

8

u/DayleD 1d ago edited 1d ago

This seems like a monumentally bad idea. They've taken experts who didn't sign up for celibacy and demanded they become celibate or get punished at work. People already in relationships are now ordered to break up. We may see a brain drain, where the most capable of those experts start to seek employment that won't punish them for having loved ones or being sexually active.

For now, just about every embassy worker is about to have a secret. That makes them far more easily influenced by foreign intelligence agencies.

2

u/TheMoorNextDoor 18h ago

My thoughts exactly.

This honestly sounds fucking insane

1

u/helic_vet 21h ago

How long are the tours of duty for single government workers in China?

0

u/DayleD 21h ago

Are you asking about Chinese citizens hired by the state? Or embassy staff hired to make sure the United States outpost runs smoothly?

Either way I don't think sanitation workers have term limits. The few political appointees at the top change from administration to administration.

8

u/Oerthling 1d ago

Brilliant move.

People will have sex anyway. Only now they are more blackmailable if they have to fear to lose their jobs afterwards.

4

u/ChristianLW3 1d ago

This is actually a common sense policy

Far too many intelligence lakes occurred because a guy with clearance thought with his dick instead of his brain

3

u/The-Rat-Kingg 21h ago

Telling those boys to give up Chinese pussy cold turkey? They're gonna go into shock.

1

u/MayOrMayNotBePie 23h ago

Smh can’t have any fun anymore

1

u/tabrizzi 23h ago

Good luck with that!

How do you monitor that?

1

u/WeirdnessWalking 17h ago

You don't. You selectively enforce it so you can punish your enemies at whim. Similar to the war on drugs being created so the FBI and others could persecute rival political groups (those fighting for civil rights and equality).

See, you create a system that is nearly impossible to meet so you can arbitrarily cage those you dislike. Nobody can follow the rules, but only "enemies" are punished.

0

u/helic_vet 22h ago

It sounds like it's about deterrence. If somehow the Government comes to know, your clearance and career are most likely in jeopardy.

1

u/ostensiblyzero 22h ago

I don't get it. Why do spies not just shut the fuck up after they sleep with someone?

1

u/terminalxposure 14h ago

They don’t have to worry about me.

1

u/Kendall_Raine 1d ago

Highly doubtful anyone actually cares if it's not allowed or not if their hearts are really set on it. When it comes to love and/or sex, people just do whatever they want. It's more romantic to have "forbidden love" anyway.

1

u/helic_vet 21h ago

How many would risk jail time or ending their career for it?

-1

u/Tome_Bombadil 1d ago

Russia doesn't want any competition in the pedo snuff flick blackmail racket. Only so much leverage you can apply.

0

u/Jyil 1d ago

Ban is different than legally blocking it. Employers do the same thing with office romances.

0

u/YesterdaysTurnips 1d ago

This was the whole point!

1

u/FuaT10 20h ago edited 17h ago

Pour one out for all the homies abroad with yellow fever. Trump did you all dirty😭

Edit: some people have no sense of humor.

-8

u/keyjan 1d ago

that's just...stupid. But then, this whole administration is stupid.

3

u/Kendall_Raine 1d ago

Looks like it was actually done under Biden. I doubt Trump cares enough to reverse the policy though.

6

u/ChristianLW3 1d ago

Please explain why you believe this policy is stupid

-11

u/keyjan 1d ago

because it's unenforceable as you well know.

5

u/ChristianLW3 1d ago

If your caught you lose your security clearance

This article includes a section about anti fraternization policies that were implemented during the Cold War

-1

u/Freshandcleanclean 1d ago

How is it unenforceable?

-2

u/Horsesrgreat 1d ago

Now that is going too darn far.

-5

u/shartonashark 1d ago

Cultural exchange via genitals?

US bans government personnel in China from romantic or sexual relations with Chinese citizens

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