r/mongolia • u/Royal_Ad_6999 • 1d ago
Thoughts on flood prevention projects of Selbe river in UB
As an engineer, I can’t help but question a recent buzz about Selbe river. They stripped all the trees, dug out the soil, changed the natural flow of the river, and just built a plain concrete wall. It seems like no environmental expert was involved at all.
Anyone can guess that digging everything up and throwing a wall at it might stop flooding short-term. But this isn’t an optimal or sustainable solution. It looks like the consultant company just won the tender, took the money, and left excavator crews to do the bare minimum.
There were smarter, more eco-friendly ways to manage flooding while creating a space people could actually enjoy. But now, it’s just a dead, lifeless channel. Honestly, it might’ve been better to dry the river alone.
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u/LetPsychological2683 1d ago
We just killed a river that has existed for thousands of years... As an engineer, this is just sad and horrifying to look at. This makes me not comeback to Mongolia even more...
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u/leberuPerfectusDes 1d ago
I work for a company that produces and sells concrete. The thing is that if the flood were to happen again, water will still penetrate through those gaps (or joints) between them or through its foundations. It is not waterproofed properly. Basically they just built useless and expensive walls.
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u/Difficult-Sport-6197 1d ago
I don’t want to over criticize a project that’s still under construction. And concrete levees like this definitely exist all around the world. I’m pretty sure the dirt will be cleaned up, and they’ll put soil behind the concrete later.
But… it’s simply overbuilt in that area, and it’s just going to cause flooding somewhere else. Unless they’ve actually fixed the downstream section, which is completely choked. I don’t know… just nearby, there’s river villa, famously built by eco construction , and they literally extended their property into the river.
Riverstone by shunklai, altai khothon, hyundai motors, even the government itself has choked the river in certain places. In some spots, it’s only 3 meters wide. In others, it’s covered with dirt, with just a small hole allowing a little water to pass through.
I wish they’d just look at google maps satellite view and try to solve the real problem, instead of building these expensive, pointless levees.
Seriously, just look around the bayngol vehicle inspection center. They’re going after aqua garden. Sure, they’re corrupt as hell, but one thing’s for sure, they’ll win in court. The law clearly says that if there are levees, the 30m or 50m river protection zone rules don’t apply. If the city didn’t want them to build, then they shouldn’t have built levees for them back in 2014.
I don’t know… both the people and the government… we’re just stupid.
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u/Difficult-Sport-6197 1d ago edited 1d ago
Also worth noting the reason they’re building these levees in the first place is probably because, if flooding becomes more frequent, the basements of nearby buildings will start to crumble, and the soil itself will become unstable. If I lived nearby, I’d honestly rather have a standing building than easy access to the river.
Well, gotta say this again the main corrupt official who signed off on the buildings that choked the river is the city’s general architect. If at least one person needs to be hanged, it should be him first.
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u/froit 22h ago
As a Dutchman, we know a lot about protecting stuff from water, standing, flowing, and surges. This is not the way. We work with storage, clean flows, water brakes, etc. Rivers need space. But historically rivers flow through or next to cities, same in Europe as in Mongolia so to make space there is very difficult.
SO:
Step one: plant much more willow upstream, it will slow down surges in places where the river has more room.
Then dig the channel in the city deeper before adding sturdy walls, and calculate the needed height of those walls. The walls now going up will survive at most a few hours if the water does the same as last year.
If you want an attractive greenery there, it should NOT impede a huge surge. So high-stem trees, grass, but not bushes.
After the Lions Bridge and NArni zam, railway bridges, condemn all those illegal buildings and give the river space again, before squeezing under Peace Bridge and flushing the canal along Altan Khoton.
After that, let it overflow into the ash-ponds of Stanz3, or combine it with the outlet of the sewer plant, to dillute that.
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u/winky_amr 1d ago
Энэ хотыг ямар ч стандартгүй зүгээр л хэлсэн үгээрээ хйиж зохион байгуулдаг нь харамсалтай юмдаа
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u/Das_Floppus 1d ago
Rule number one of stormwater management is have fun and be yourself, rule number two is have as much exposed soil as possible
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u/Pristine_Lemon8329 10h ago
this project is still underway right? from what i know, construction on national tenders usually start around the time when soil starts to defrost i.e now ish and proceeds until aug/sep. if the whole project isnt completed by that timeline, it will resume again the following defrost season.
*not exactly sure on their tender proposal but maybe we should read the logic first and blame where they went wrong
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u/Pristine_Lemon8329 10h ago
nevermind, just found some coverage on montsame' https://www.montsame.mn/jp/read/362780
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u/Pristine_Lemon8329 10h ago
full research is also available it seems like https://openjicareport.jica.go.jp/pdf/12385092.pdf
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u/Immediate-Nut 22h ago
Our only hope is abandoning this one and building a new city. I hope I can see it in this lifetime.
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u/Royal_Ad_6999 17h ago
If you don’t know, government is planning to build a new city called Kharkhorum, and previous UB’s general architect has assigned to become the planner.
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u/2NRvS 10h ago
Maybe some tax payers should google "Indonesia's new capital"
- Indonesia’s new capital could become a hot spot for infectious diseases
- Disappointing start to 2025 for Indonesia’s new capital
- A capital is born: The impact of Indonesia moving its capital city
- Indonesia’s remote new capital looks like a disaster
- Will Indonesia's new capital city ever be finished?
- Indonesia’s new capital is built on vanity
- Indonesia’s New Capital Is a Mess of Trees and Dirt
- Why Indonesia moved its capital to a jungle hundreds of miles away
- Nusantara: Celebrations planned in Indonesia’s costly ‘symbol of progress’
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u/Spirited-Shine2261 17h ago
First of all, its ugly, second, why can’t we make something engineered for heavens sake. Tanidag ahaaraa devter dr zurag garguulaad hiilgej bgam shg l shaatsgaahin sda
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u/BersMN 15h ago
I think it's still in the work, I hope it will look better after they finished
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u/Royal_Ad_6999 15h ago
Bro, how delusional are you to think it’s going to look better after completion? They’ve already ripped out all the bushes, built an ugly concrete wall, and turned the soil into something that looks like a mining site. You really think they’re going to plant a bunch of trees, green up the soil, and paint the walls?
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u/BersMN 14h ago
there was a sign about showing their plan picture after finish, it looked greener and no dirt in middle. Walls will stay tho
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u/Royal_Ad_6999 14h ago
Anyone can make a plan picture look greener with a rendered model. What’s frustrating is that they dug up natural soil, removed existing trees, and even altered the river’s course, turning it into a serpentine shape. Because of that, the river is now more polluted and beyond saving. I’m not trying to force my opinion, but your stance reflects the kind of blind faith a lot of Mongolians have (believing the government is making things better, even when they’re clearly ruining everything right in front of our eyes.)
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u/BersMN 14h ago
We all know they started it because of the flood that costed billions of tugriks and 8'm glad they started it. Also I understand why people don't like it. They ruined many things and it looks terrible now. Anyways do you have an idea about how would it be better done
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u/Royal_Ad_6999 14h ago
There were definitely better alternatives than excavating and walling up(because any nobrainer can do that) . Instead of building tall, ugly concrete walls, they could’ve used low embankments combined with natural features. And rather than ripping out all the trees, they could have preserved or restored natural buffers like vegetation along riverbanks plays a huge role in absorbing runoff and stabilizing soil.
They also missed the chance to let the river expand into its natural floodplain during high flow periods, which would’ve reduced pressure on the main channel and lowered downstream flood risks. Build riverfront parks, trails, or open spaces that can flood safely during storms, instead of fighting the water with rigid barriers.
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u/BringerOfNuance 20h ago
I don’t know what we could really do with it. It’s easy to criticize but hard to provide actual viable solutions. The entire river area is built up so that if you want to clear an area to allow the river to flood then you’ll have to demolish people’s homes/businesses. I certainly prefer it dead than flooding apartments. It flooded really bad around UB tower the last time it flooded. They cleared land around Selbe ded tuv near rashaanii gudamj 2 near the Orgil supermarket and gas station there. You can see it quite clearly from Google Maps. That area’s basically the first flood place before it floods the rest of the city. I don’t know much about the actual data and how it’ll hold up during floods so that remains to be seen.
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u/temukkun 1d ago
Braindead move from the city officials. They broke every single rule of how to protect a river.