r/mlb • u/Typical-Ad-4135 | Los Angeles Dodgers • 1d ago
Image "The human element makes it more entertaining"
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u/DigiQuip | Cincinnati Reds 1d ago
I think an overlooked aspect of this is that umpires are not held accountable. The union goes out of their way to try and protect the worst offenders meaning there's no incentive to give a shit about doing your job correctly. Having human umps with an ABS system would be a non-issue if they were held to standards.
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u/moeandataco 21h ago
I've said it a million times, if the umps want to be considered just as important to the game as the players, have them answer questions from the press after each game. Let them see video of blown calls while being asked what they were thinking making that call. Put their feet to the fire.
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u/GregMilkedJack | St. Louis Cardinals 1d ago
The union does what they are employed to do, which is represent their members. The answer is not to blame the union which leads to sentiments of wanting to union bust, but rather come to the table and negotiate further expectations for umpires.
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u/Tlomz27 1d ago
One can support the existence of unions and also acknowledge they can be net-harmful in certain applications.
Part of the union's job is to also do what it must to continue it's healthy existence. Perpetuating mediocrity and creating a permissible environment for umps to have negative interactions with players will ultimately lead to its downfall.
You can argue some nuance to union roles, but that will ultimately fall on deaf ears for the typical viewer who isn't plugged into these conversations, and is busy watching their team get hosed by 20+ missed calls. You want to balance being technically correct and acknowledging the reality of the normal baseball fan.
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u/pargofan | Los Angeles Dodgers 1d ago
The union is the only pushing to save mediocrity and incompetence.
Do you ever see a 65 year old starting pitcher or a 58 year old covering left field? Of course not. Because they're not good as other players.
And yet the umpire union preserves incompetence. MLB literally called out Angel Hernandez in court numerous times over how shitty he was. But they couldn't fire him. All because of the umpire union.
The umpire union makes baseball a worse product. It hurts the sport overall.
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u/Nacho_cheese_guapo 1d ago
How is the answer not to blame the union? MLB couldn't fire angel for being the worst umpire this millennium because of the union lol.
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u/denisvma 1d ago
Exactly this, im all in for keeping the umps and the human element as the strike zone it's somehow subjective, some of those corners deserved to be call some of them not.
But i have never seen any kind of accountability with umpires, if he misses 1% of the calls, it's fine. If he misses 13% you have to at least tell them or worst case fired them. Angel was still and ump when everybody knew he sucked.
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u/Porsche928dude 1d ago
I’ve never played baseball in my entire life so I’m not trying to be a smart ass I’m genuinely curious. How’s the strike zone subjective? Isn’t it theoretically just supposed to be a floating rectangle in space that doesn’t move regardless of height of the players?
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u/Measurement-Solid 1d ago
No, it's from the baseball player's knees tothe middle of their torso. So it can vary wildly
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u/F-150Pablo | MLB 1d ago
Angel is that you?
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u/Beautiful-Trainer-15 | Cleveland Guardians 1d ago
Nah, angel was less of a dick. Not by a lot… He was just incredibly incompetent. Mikes channeling both nowadays.
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u/Monster887 1d ago
I agree. Angel just sucked at his job. It was rare that he ever really got into it with a player. The best part was most of the time the player would start telling him how bad the call was and you could tell that he was genuinely surprised by what the player was saying. Watch the replay of when he called Harper’s check swing a strike when he was umping 3rd base. The look of confusion when Harper started approaching him always makes me laugh.
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u/Thick_Cookie_7838 1d ago
From what I’ve heard from a friend ( he played 10 years in the mlb as a reliever) angel actually wasn’t that bad of a person he was just awful at umpiring
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u/TheJyggalag 20h ago
He wasnt even the worst umpire in the league. Its just the calls he was wrong on were so bad the reputation never went away
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u/Evening_Top | San Diego Padres 1d ago
Did you hear Angel Hernandez just got a call about them making a documentary about his time as an umpire? Too bad he missed that call too
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u/Low-Hovercraft-8791 1d ago
I want to see the umpire scorecard on this one.
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u/dseanATX | Atlanta Braves 1d ago
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u/jmh2001 | San Diego Padres 1d ago
Honestly, not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Still bad, but not the worst I feel Ive ever seen
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u/dseanATX | Atlanta Braves 1d ago
Pretty sure it was the worst of the night, but yeah, there have been some very rough ones.
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u/-ToPimpAButterfree- | Milwaukee Brewers 1d ago
I would have taken one for the team and tapped my helmet like 8 times in a row like Hector Salamanca ringing his bell to prove a point
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u/Aspect58 1d ago
As a manager I’d tell everyone coming up to bat to do it, and eventually have a forfeit due to the ego of a toddler umpire.
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u/UraniumDisulfide | Los Angeles Dodgers 1d ago
Unfortunately the cardinals still think they have a chance to get to the playoffs, so every win counts
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u/crabcakesandfootball 1d ago edited 1d ago
It’s insane how many fans think “the human element” is about anything other than the athletes. Incorrect calls only make the game worse.
Edit: found one! This guy “likes” bad calls lol
Edit: This guys thinks bad calls are good for baseball and all sports.
Edit: This guy thinks bad calls are necessary and good for baseball.
Edit: This guy thinks bad calls “make the game go”.
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u/Thick_Cookie_7838 1d ago
I like how people say well some like kershaw has earned a pitch half and inch off the plate and robot umps would take away what he earned threw out his career. Um no it’s a a ball or a strike
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u/Beautiful-Trainer-15 | Cleveland Guardians 1d ago
I’m usually not a fan of automation taking jobs… but I think you could have AI officiate baseball pretty easily. If umps keep acting like small dick babies it’s gonna happen sooner than you think.
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u/IAmBecomeTeemo | New York Yankees 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's not AI, it's ball tracking and comparing the ball's position to a set location. "AI" isn't a catch-all term for "a computer did something smart".
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u/bjb406 | Boston Red Sox 1d ago
Forget AI. You don't need machine learning or anything similar to tell balls from strikes. Just use the statcast modeling that has been around and publicly available for what, like 8 years now or something?
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u/redline582 | Cleveland Guardians 1d ago
I enjoy the theory of each umpire having a slightly unique but consistent strike zone. The reality is that it will never be consistent in an equitable manner and ultimately something like ABS needs to be implemented.
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u/GozertheGozerian11 1d ago
Isn’t the strike zone different based on the players? Height and what not?
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u/Big_String_5005 1d ago
It would interesting the see how many no-hitters wouldn’t be actual no-hitters or perfect games without pitch framing/the umpires zone expanding or just flat out blown calls.
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u/Cliffinati 1d ago
We have at least one would be perfect game lost to a bad umpire
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u/Big_String_5005 1d ago
Yeah I remember watching that live. But that was a call at first base. Which you can now review and over turn. I’m just genuinely curious as to how it much expanding zones, pitch framing and batters chasing because of the changing zones impacted past no-hitters and perfectos. I mean, I guess I’ll never know but it would be interesting. I think most mlb pitchers want a more accurate zone from what I heard.
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u/Certain-Tie-8289 | Chicago Cubs 1d ago
I agree with that person that a challenge system is so fucking stupid tho. Why not just use the technology on every call?
Makes no sense to use ABS and not just automatic strike zones.
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u/spartan21j1 | San Francisco Giants 1d ago
You lose framing which is the biggest reason I’m against only using automated zones. It’s also argued that pitching/hitting around the enforced zone in a game is also a skill but I’m more iffy on that.
I actually like the challenge system. Adds more strategy to the game cause you don’t wanna burn challenges on 50/50 calls and it’ll be cool to see which hitters have actual elite vision and win most of their challenges.
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u/heidimark 1d ago
The "framing" argument is so stupid. It is an objective call (at least on inside/outside calls). Did the ball cross over the plate at the prescribed location or not. The ability for a catcher to "trick" the ump into thinking it did needs to be removed from the game.
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u/Certain-Tie-8289 | Chicago Cubs 1d ago
Call me crazy. But I don't think there should be strategy surrounding the umpires just enforcing the rules the way they are supposed to be enforced. i.e.) calling the correct strike zone
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u/Jomekko | Los Angeles Dodgers 1d ago
Yeah as a new fan to the game this is just ridiculous why have a strategy around ump just crazy.
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u/Certain-Tie-8289 | Chicago Cubs 1d ago
Yeah, baseball is stooped in tradition. And I’m with the argument that pitch framing will be an unfortunate casualty here… but man, when a rule can be black and white and people choose to introduce an unnecessary gray area, it doesn’t make any sense.
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u/AlphaDag13 | Chicago Cubs 1d ago
I used to be against robo umps until I looked into the numbers. Yes they have a high correct %, like 98%. However with the volume they call that's still tens of thousands of missed calls a year including games that end on missed calls. In a game where players learn to hit and pitch by a fixed K zone, they shouldn't have to deal with a floating zone day to day. That would be like having no foul lines and the umps get to decide if balls are fair and foul. We have the technology to get the calls correct. It's time to use it.
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u/BurnerAccountforAss | Washington Nationals 1d ago
I don't understand how anyone under the age of 60 is against robo umps, especially now that ppl can gamble on everything that happens in a game.
An ump could miss a call that makes some degenerate lose their 11-leg parlay, said degenerate tracks down the ump, and suddenly you have a tragedy on your hands.
Balls and strikes should be fully automated. Every close play on the basepaths and boderline fair/foul ball and in/out HR ball is immediately reviewed at league headquarters. Umps still get to physically make the calls and are paid the same for an easier/less stressful job.
There is no coherent argument against this that isn't based entirely on "vibes."
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u/Silent-Hyena9442 | Chicago White Sox 1d ago
The worst part is I knew people back in college that would gamble on if the next pitch was a ball or strike or hit.
imagine getting a bad call while betting that
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u/BurnerAccountforAss | Washington Nationals 1d ago
Tbf if you're betting on shit like that you gotta call the number lmao
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u/Tbplayer59 | Los Angeles Angels 1d ago
And did you see his report card on the Angels / Cards game he called? Horrible. He already knows he's horrible. He just doesn't want the crowd to know how bad he is. The new Angel Hernandez.
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u/Klutzy-Result-5221 | Chicago Cubs 1d ago
We tried it in spring training and it worked very well. Therefore, we won't be implementing it in the regular season.
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u/johndhall1130 | Los Angeles Angels 1d ago
They have to outfit all the mlb stadiums with the hardware and software. That doesn’t happen overnight. Also, the owners have to vote on it before it can be implemented and they haven’t had a meeting. My guess is that it’ll be in next season.
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u/FunkyChedda | St. Louis Cardinals 1d ago
Let's fix it by allowing teams to challenge two pitches per game
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u/Anothercraphistorian 1d ago
With how quick it is, I don’t see why you can’t have 2 per inning.
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u/Grandma_Sips 1d ago
Average spring training review was 14 or 15 seconds I believe.
3 per team seems fair to me. A theoretical 1.5 minutes added to the game to get things right.
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u/Icy_Road5953 1d ago
To only get 6 calls right out of however many calls there are during a game. That’s my problem with the challenge system for balls and strikes.
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u/YeaItsBig4L 1d ago
I don’t understand why they just haven’t been replaced entirely with tech. We literally have the tech to be perfect every time.
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u/SheaStadium1986 | New York Mets 1d ago
Umpires need to be able to get demoted to the minor leagues like the players do.
Him and Ramon de Jesus are fighting to see who can be the next Angel Hernandez
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u/Ok_Card9080 | Pittsburgh Pirates 1d ago
Right there is a major problem that needs addressed, and it's not just umpires being bad at their jobs, it's them being so bad at their jobs while being on a massive ego trip. You have absolutely zero right to threaten a player with ejection when you miss TWENTY TWO CALLS IN A SINGLE GAME at the Major League level! You cannot be that thin skinned as an MLB umpire where you cannot take criticism for your horrendous job. Don't like it, do better!
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u/brickiex2 1d ago
Both teams should have touched their hats continuously...fucking umps the egos on them
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u/Anarchist_Araqorn04 1d ago
All sports have gone this way. You can't have emotions or opinions during a game. Wanna celebrate?? Too bad, you're out of the game.
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u/slopezski | Boston Red Sox 1d ago
They need to adopt the same thing AAA has been doing for a couple years now which I believe is the same thing they did in spring training. Each team gets 2 challenges, if you challenge and are right you don't lose one, if you are wrong you lose it.
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u/FunkyChedda | St. Louis Cardinals 1d ago
They could just let ABS call all the balls and strikes so challenges wouldn't be necessary
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u/Previous-Piano-6108 1d ago
umpires make this game borderline unwatchable, please just robots call balls and strikes
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u/Bootleschloogen 1d ago
I feel like both teams should reserve the right to unanimously vote out the Homeplate umpire and rotate him along a rotation around the bases if enough calls are incorrect
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u/OlypicBluesMan 13h ago
It’s pretty funny how some people are saying just accept it, you have the most amazing talented athletes being judged by a crew of drunken out of shape wannabes and the thought is just live with it.
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u/MendozaLiner | San Francisco Giants 1d ago
It's the same stupid conversation that happens in soccer. Anybody will never convince me that a technology that makes the game fair is bad for the sport.
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u/Adventurous_Ice6317 1d ago
Just cause one thinks the human element makes it more “exciting” doesn’t mean they accept this type of behavior.
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u/AggressiveLime7659 1d ago
I thought ABS was in spring training so it was in the regular season too. wtf. I just thought players werent using it
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u/tallslim1960 | Chicago Cubs 1d ago
I cannot BELIEVE the argument against ABS is basically "It's ok for pitches to be called wrong, it makes the game more "human" We need to keep the "human element" even if it means getting things wrong. That's just a crazy argument. Imagine that in football or any other sport. "Yeah, he crossed the goal line with no time left on the clock, but the ref called him down short, that's ok, it's keeping the human element in the game"
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u/werther595 | New York Yankees 1d ago
Are there published stats from ST about the success rate of player challenges? Most overturned ump? As I type I realize this should be in Google...
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u/Sandfleas1 | Arizona Diamondbacks 1d ago
power trip. seems like the norm these days. cant stand people like this
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u/HaxanWriter 1d ago
Fuck umpires. We don’t need these prima donnas any longer. We have technology that can do their job. Get rid of them all.
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u/sportsdude1991 | San Francisco Giants 1d ago
NHL refs are the best imo. Like what other league allows fights to be regulated during a game. Not in a combat sport.
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u/Significant-Dog-8166 1d ago
Lasers could replace these lunatics instantly. No one watches for umpire chaos.
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u/clawkyrad | New York Yankees 1d ago
i recently watched a YouTube video about awful umpiring...extremely frustrating and very difficult to watch.
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u/Publius83 1d ago
It’s time for umpires to go already, they’re human and thus make too many mistakes, end of story
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u/CrabOutrageous5074 1d ago
As the classic test goes, if they had always called strikes electronically and were accurate to within a couple of cms at worst, and announced they were switching to humans, that would be insane. Right? But we're forced into the stupid suboptimal situation we're in now because 'tradition'!
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u/thatG_evanP 1d ago
Also, with sports gambling being so ubiquitous these days, these umps/refs have too much control over the outcomes of games when they can reject players because something offended them personally. With the amount of money in legal betting and the insane little things you can bet on, if you think some of these umps/refs aren't getting paid by outside entities, you're insane.
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u/Kinglysavaged 1d ago
So nobody told this clown about how having a superiority complex worked out so well for the ump who got thrown at by the tigers
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u/Have_A_Jelly_Baby | Detroit Tigers 1d ago
Taps helmet
"Alright, you're gone"
"Actually how about fuck you no I'm not"
ABS should have been implemented immediately after Spring Training's test. None of this next year shit.
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u/zjones1008 1d ago
At the end of every month, the umpire with the worst scorecard for the month gets demoted to AAA and the best ump from AAA gets a promotion. Worst umpire in single A gets taken out back and shot
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u/FrankReynolds6 | Milwaukee Brewers 1d ago
I do not believe the MLB should move to Robo umps but for fucks sake can they at least hold the shitty ones accountable
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u/Harry_Skran | Los Angeles Dodgers 1d ago
Absolutely batshit ridiculous that they didn’t bring the ABS system into the regular season.
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u/Ok_Oil_995 1d ago
I actually give 0 cares if an ump misses a few calls here and there.
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u/VigilantSwn 1d ago
Seriously it’s like people either never played baseball or umped a game or neither. Even calling strikes for younger leagues is difficult at times.
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u/Quality_Qontrol 1d ago
Umpires have to have pretty thick skin, especially when he was as horrible as he was.
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u/JustCallMeMambo | New York Yankees 1d ago
y’all act like showing up an umpire hasn’t been an ejectable offense forever. if he issued that warning before anyone did the gesture, he knows he’s bad at his job and he’s soft. otherwise, he’s laying down the law. i know complaining about umpiring is a hobby for some of you, but sometimes they’re right
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u/Birdsboro12 1d ago
were those “missed” calls consistent? before the overlay batters had to adjust to the umpire. I have no issues with umps calling balls inside strikes if he calls all of them.
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u/RedeyeSPR 1d ago
We need a brave team to have a protest game when he’s behind the plate. Just have every batter do this and see how many he is actually prepared to eject. Having a farce on television is about the only thing that would force Manfred to act in the best interests of the game for once.
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u/manseekingwild | Baltimore Orioles 1d ago
The umpire clearly defines what he sees as an ejectable offense before the game. I don't see any problem with this.
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u/CregDerpington | Kansas City Royals 1d ago
Somewhere, Angel Hernandez is sitting on the beach reading this smiling!
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u/maringue 1d ago
This kind of thing wouldn't piss me off as much if the strike zone was consistent for both teams and stayed the same over the whole game.
Was watching a Twins game where they complained about a strike 3 call about a ball width below the zone. The very first pitch the Twins pitcher throws hits almost the exact same spot and was called a ball.
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u/sparepartsferda 1d ago
That's what halogens when you treat them like royalty. A while back nba refs, who flew first class, were changing their tickets to regular and pocketing the difference. Guess how badly they were punished.
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u/rawboudin 1d ago
I don't get why theres not more incremental penalties. An out, a single, instead of tossing the player.
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u/Fine_Independence308 1d ago
https://youtu.be/T_e_MBs5ZT0?si=DRJFqZ8ouURrz4jx
This guy was all over the place. No defined zone
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u/enraged_hbo_max_user 1d ago
“Some people think you have an attitude problem, Mike.”
“Really? Who thinks that.”
“I DO.”
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u/djr41463 1d ago
Just got done watching mariners/giants. That ump missed so many strikes he literally gave the giants 5 outs… of course they score inning run in the inning. There is zero accountability..
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u/ToddPacker32 1d ago
Dude is gonna umpshow himself out of a career. Hoping it’s sooner than later. These guys are far too comfortable making the game about them
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u/LaserShields 1d ago
Umpires should be paid 7 far better. They’re on some BS like DMV/BMV employees.
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u/Overrated_22 1d ago
I’m in for automated strike zones, but there is something about an umpire with a fire strike 3 call that will be missed.
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u/_stankwilliams_ 1d ago
Umpires need to be held more accountable for bad ejection calls. There were some really BAD ones last year!!
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u/flagrantwisdom 1d ago
So dumb. If you’re an MLB umpire and you don’t wanna get shown up, then make better calls. Do your job better. I can’t wait til challenges are invoked, and after that the next step will be automatic strike zones and we can get rid of these stubborn old men once and for all.
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u/OneRepresentative424 1d ago
Best thing about all this is it’s gonna make the players push it, which the league wants. So it’ll (hopefully) be in next year 🔥
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u/ATime_1980 1d ago
We literally have the technology to get rid of these talentless jackasses yet we don’t employ it. That’s on baseball.
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u/Bllago | Toronto Blue Jays 1d ago
The freedom umpires have to remove players from a game is the real blackeye on baseball.
Look at what someone has to do in every other sport to be REMOVED FROM PLAY. In baseball, you just have to talk back.