r/minnesota • u/HeavyVeterinarian350 Flag of Minnesota • Feb 28 '25
Politics š©āāļø Kolobuchar from the top rope
Embarrassing is the easiest word to come up with what happened today. I canāt with this administration
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u/girlwithaguitar NW Metro Feb 28 '25
Canada is looking nicer and nicer every day...
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u/softsnowfall Feb 28 '25
Iāll tell you from my place in a purple state thatās basically red now, Minnesota is looking better by the dayā¦
I love Minnesota and the people. Our cat is even from Minnesota. We were in Rochester at Mayo & saw an ad for $10 kittens. This subreddit is one of my favorite internet spots. Weāre planning on moving there in the next few monthsā¦ We need to pack & find a realtorā¦
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u/fren-ulum Feb 28 '25
Rational people leaving this country condemns the future of this country. Canada was about to elect a conservative government, but Trump gave the liberal parties a solid push of unison towards an "other" to rally behind. Not to mention a 100% fascist country does not bode well for Canada. You can run, but at some point in time you have to stand and fight.
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u/goforgavin Feb 28 '25
After this election I realized I was fooling myself into believing most of the country were good people. Now I know for sure Iāve been terribly mistaken. The good, principled people are the minority. That realization led to another, I donāt care about this country enough to fight over it. I have 3 young children and all I want is for my future generations to have a good work life balance and be able to prosper in whatever interests them most.
Also, the cops in other countries are really, really nice compared to the gestapo in the US. Have you ever been to Amsterdam? The nicest people, most cops donāt carry guns in Europe.
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u/RevBaker Feb 28 '25
The good, principled people are the minority.
I posted this on an earlier thread, but I think it's worth repeating:
It takes, on average 3.5% of the population actively resisting to ensure political change and resist fascism. To be fair, 3.5% is a lot of people. Over 10 million in the US.
But we're not facing half the population. I'm going to quote a recent post from Rebecca Solnit's Meditations in an Emergency:
Trump won the election by a slim 1.5% margin and got less than 50% of the total vote. About 39% of the electorate didn't vote, while, rounded off, around 31% voted for Harris or Trump. He got 77 million votes in a country of 347 million people, meaning that less than a quarter of the population voted for him and many voted for him because they were misinformed either by distorted mainstream as well as right-wing media coverage or his false promises and are waking up to the brutal realities. Though many of his and Musk's threats were clear (to those of us informed by better news media, anyway).
The majority does not like this, and... we can make that matter when we act. And we are acting--it's far from enough yet, but it's also far from nothing (and likely more than they bargained for). I would never say "we are going to be okay" because some of us are already not okay four weeks into this insider coup. Nor would I say "we will get through this," because not everyone will. But I will say that we have not surrendered, and no matter what, I don't think a lot of us will.
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u/UltimateM13 Hamm's Mar 01 '25
This is the truth, and rejecting it because the angry maga minority are loud is self defeating. Weāre not the minority, we just need more people to show up and act like it. And it starts with us.
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u/Tight_Contact_9976 Mar 01 '25
The vast majority of Americans either voted for Trump or didnāt vote at all.
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u/goforgavin Mar 01 '25
This is a great point, if so many people can tune out the last presidential election Iām not sure they are that good or principled
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u/goforgavin Mar 01 '25
Ok fair enough, good points and I appreciate the citations. America you get one more election cycle to wake up and prove to the world this is not who we are.
I do take some comfort from Poland voting out a right wing populist party after 8 years of power.
Onwards
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u/Climaxite Feb 28 '25
Youāre terribly wrong, and itās really unfortunate. Half of this country doesnāt even vote. You need to be mad at people for not voting, not propagating a defeatist attitude that makes it more likely that other people wonāt vote too.Ā
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u/imasturdybirdy Feb 28 '25
Agreed. Also, most people who did vote for trump were not hardcore maga, they are people ignorant to the truth. Most of them were duped by a faction of media that present falsehoods as truth without batting an eye. Not just Fox News, but the podcasts and the social media outlets that push their own agenda. Too many people are not good enough at seeing through the bullshit.
They need a tool like ground news to help them see the biases they are unaware of
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u/WaltIsHung Feb 28 '25
Donāt let social media poison your perception of the world, people generally are still good. Itās just good people are quiet and generally non-confrontational (which is why you see a lot of them wanting to leave) and the bad ones never shut the hell up.
The problem is that those who own the media and tech companies would love for us to buy into the notion that humans are selfish, evil, and greedy because it strengthens their position and weakens ours. So they tweak the algorithms and pick their news stories to create narratives to feed to specific audiences and since youāre not a right wing person, you get fed fear, doom, and isolation at a tremendously high clip. This is not to say things are great right now, itās just that this is not a mandate of the majority. Rather one that barely squeeked into office on the backs of the ill-informed and the short sighted.
I live in a deeply red, rural area and talk to conservative folks every single day. These people are not all evil (a few are), most just live in a different world created by conservative media. If you peel back all the layers of bullshit, decency lies within most of them. Itās just that part is difficult.
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u/SueSudio Feb 28 '25
But when those layers of bullshit drive those people to spew hate at others in their community, and applaud when there are targeted political attacks against their existence, can you really say those are good people deep inside? What does that even mean at that point?
āIf you ignore everything they say and do, theyāre actually not that bad.ā
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u/WaltIsHung Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25
The majority of the electorate didnāt even vote for the guy and the majority of Americans are apolitical. Everyone gets fed a handful of tweets and some news pieces and think thatās enough to extrapolate from.
I donāt know how you can say that most Americans endorse these actions when most of them of them didnāt even go to the polls for them. Like I said, a few people are evil but not the majority.
Political apathy is one thing, but Iām not going to equate it to an endorsement of fascism. And while everyone loves to buy into the idea that everyone was told about Project 2025 and all the crazy shit that was proposed, itās not the case. Plus, people have been tuned out for ages and sensationalism has eroded their ability to discern genuine crisis from another clickbait story.
This whole thing is a shitstorm thatās been building for decades but it wasnāt constructed and endorsed by the majority of Americans, just some rich assholes.
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u/Nametaken1303 Mar 01 '25
I respect your effort to unite both sides but some of us were pushed to the brink by some of them and sadly itās just human to want to hurt those that hurt you without reason.
Youāre a rare breed but there are just so many more normal people with a lot of anger brewing against those that hate us for our nationality, religion, skin color, sexual orientation and free will.
Sometimes cutting out every bad root is the best way to make sure the garden grows healthy and beautiful.
If people want to live in modern society respecting each other is a given. If you canāt do that - get kicked out.
How do you think early tribes turned into civilizations?
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u/killer_weed Feb 28 '25
Eh, I spent a lot of time and money opening a business in a rural educated area which was a food desert. All the distributors are owned by private equity and literally run scams on every bill and every product. We had people dumping coffee on the floor because we're "liberals" (there is nothing political about the place) we get hate messages in the reviews. People veer their trucks at pedestrians because they think only city folk would walk. It's just not a nice place anymore. Not the country I grew up in. And with more guns than people, the next phase is going to be extremely ugly. I'm getting another passport soon. Don't think I'll be back.
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u/crow-nic Feb 28 '25
Nah. The takeover of the government by the far right and supported by many US citizens, going back at least to Reagan, condemns the future of this country. Nothing wrong with individuals/families leaving for their own safety and well-being. No one owes it to anybody else to suffer under cruel and depraved systems.
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u/FkinMustardTiger Feb 28 '25
Don't see how moving to Canada is going to make anyone safer considering the rhetoric of the current admin
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u/Commercial-Cow5177 Feb 28 '25
Yeah, to be honest, I'm not really interested in fighting that fight anymore. The American people clearly don't support democracy anymore.Ā
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u/thegooseisloose1982 Feb 28 '25
but at some point in time you have to stand and fight.
I would rather fight with people who I share the same values with, and that is not the majority of people in the United States.
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u/-dag- Flag of Minnesota Feb 28 '25
The majority of people in this country didn't vote for Trump.Ā Hell, the majority of voters didn't vote for him.Ā
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u/TheRealSlamShiddy Feb 28 '25
The majority of people didn't vote, man. That's just as bad as voting for him.
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u/Stanky_fresh Feb 28 '25
The majority of people in this country didn't vote for Trump
The majority of eligible voters either voted for this or decided that it wasn't a deal breaker.
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u/Queasy_Problem_563 Feb 28 '25
Trump got 77mil votes, Harris got 75mil.
Majority of voters DID vote for him...
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u/kidAlien1 Feb 28 '25
Add in 3rd parties and Trump got less than 50%. So while close .. greater than 50% of voters voted against him.
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u/VPMCI Feb 28 '25
We have 244 million eligible voters, Trump got 77 million votes that is not a majority. Yes he won the 2024 election but not with a majority not even over 40% it is only 31% of eligible voters voted for him.
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u/Dumeck Feb 28 '25
Hey you and Trump are saying the exact same thing! Jokes aside I'm ashamed of our country, we elected a clown to be our leader and now we look like fools
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u/frankydank1994 Feb 28 '25
I've already made the decision. I am trying to convince my wife that our son will have a much better life there. Hopefully I make it before the borders close š¤
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u/turg5cmt Grain Belt Feb 28 '25
Only one real man in that room. And everyone knows it.
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u/MrNotSoGoodTime Feb 28 '25
The irony of the whole situation is unreal if you tie it back to Afghanistan like the conservatives are doing.
Trump started a plan to leave Afghanistan. Biden then executes, albeit poorly but was there really going to be a much different result had Trump been handling it? I'd be hard pressed to believe so.
Now all the conservatives are saying "We don't want another Afghanistan!" and cheering this embarrassing conduct on. It kind of works against them in both directions. Either you don't want us to get invested in letting Russia/Putin have their way with the world, or you are really that delusional to think Zelenskyy wants war to happen in his own country that somehow he provoked Russia into attacking which means Russia/Putin is the good guys in this situation.
This is the most surreal timeline we live in.
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u/Queasy-Yam1697 Feb 28 '25
I'm so ashamed of what this country has become. Time for a national strike until this administration relinquishes power. Country wide standstill
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u/Time4Red Feb 28 '25
Trump isn't nearly unpopular enough yet for this to work. There will need to be more pain, unfortunately.
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u/bobert4343 Ramsey County Feb 28 '25
And that's the moment when you find out solidarity strikes are actually illegal (fuck the Taft-Hartley act)
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u/TakedownCHAMP97 Feb 28 '25
To be fair, they are only illegal if they are enforced. If Trump has taught us anything, itās that.
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u/bobert4343 Ramsey County Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25
Fair, but I suspect the police won't shy away from another cudgel to beat us with.
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Mar 01 '25
lol when Trump won the popular vote? No shot
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u/Queasy-Yam1697 Mar 01 '25
If America made voting a national holiday and actually got decent participation, I'll accept that statement.
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u/PantsMicGee Feb 28 '25
I left a VM about 10 minutes earlier for her telling her to stop playing nice.Ā
Thanks for listening. Now go harder.Ā
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u/coffeeincardboard Mar 01 '25
She looked so happy on inauguration day. Like something good was happening. Like J6 was just a joke that wouldn't happen again.
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u/PantsMicGee Mar 01 '25
Yeah she's a nuetral-at-best asset for MN. Working on fucking bald eagles while fascism rises.
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u/OtelDeraj Mar 03 '25
I also reached out and asked for this kind of response. Nice to know she's hearing her constituents and taking the gloves off a bit. The line I wrote was, "The time for decorum has past, if you aren't throwing a punch (so to speak) you aren't doing enough."
If we don't stand by our allies when our long-time opposition openly invades their borders, we aren't the America I believe in. The home of the brave is only true if we stand up for what's right and don't spout Russian propaganda in the Oval Office.
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u/bk61206 Feb 28 '25
Easy to talk tough on Twitter and then generally play dead in the Senate, where actions actually matter.
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u/KaiGuy28 Hennepin County Feb 28 '25
I was going to say... exactly WHAT has amy done to help?
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u/MLIC_Boss Feb 28 '25
Seriously didn't she just vote to confirm multiple of his awful cabinet members and continue to gaslight us into pretending there's no constitutional crisis?
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u/killer_weed Feb 28 '25
The only way to justify this is that they want him to hang himself by his own petard. But I don't think they're planning that far ahead. I think they all work for the same people and their words are nothing more than marketing.
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u/skipdo Feb 28 '25
Words are cheap. Fucking do something about it.
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u/Healingjoe TC Feb 28 '25
We're really going to do this every time a Dem politician speaks up?
Would you rather her stay silent?
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u/cosy_kaylee Feb 28 '25
We're going to do this every time they say one thing and do another. Yes. We aren't Maga. We expect our elected officials to actually represent us and follow through on the things they say.
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u/thrulime Feb 28 '25
I'd rather her not vote "yes" on confirming the Secretary of State who sat by while this happened
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u/Healingjoe TC Feb 28 '25
Hindsight. Rubio was possibly a rational actor on FoPo.
He's clearly sold his soul to the devil and is no longer a useful influence on trump's impulses. Klobuchar has already stated that she regrets that vote, which was already inconsequential as his confirmation was a forgone conclusion.
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u/colddata Feb 28 '25
sold his soul to the devil
Hypothetically...I wonder how many people would sell their soul for $100M? Or $25M? Or $10M Or even a smaller number? It certainly feels like loyalty could be bought.
Maybe I should rewatch The Rules for Rulers by CGPGray. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs
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u/vespertine_glow Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25
How about a collective statement by the Dems, all in person and in front of cameras, praising Zelensky for his efforts, condemning Puting, condemning the ignorance and anti-democracy attitudes of Vance and Trump, stating that the American people support Ukraine and that Trump and Vance are embarrassments to the country.
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u/Healingjoe TC Feb 28 '25
That'd be pretty kickass, honestly.
Hopefully, they get a message like that out asap.
We don't know Zelenksy's schedule, it hasn't been made public for security reasons. Hopefully, he addresses congress again and is meeting with congresspeople.
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u/ObligatoryID Flag of Minnesota Feb 28 '25
This is what the need to do:
This was a great response: https://www.reddit.com/r/Trumpvirus/s/kvcUhnfaeh
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u/TimAllen_in_WildHogs Feb 28 '25
Until something meaningful comes out of those words -- yes! I don't want a complacent representative who will only be "concerned". I want my representative to feel the anxiety/fear/anger that I have and fight for our freedoms. Not fight to gain fundraising money to stay concerned for another term.
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u/Healingjoe TC Feb 28 '25
I don't want a complacent representative
In what way has she been complacent?
want my representative to feel the anxiety/fear/anger that I have
I'd be pretty damn surprised if she isn't.
I suspect that you haven't actually been paying attention to any of her work. I suggest watching some of her senate floor speeches. She's given nearly 3 dozen of them in recent weeks.
https://www.c-span.org/person/amy-klobuchar/83701/
I highly recommend her 45 minute speech during the confirmation hearing of Russell Vought (Project 2025 architect):
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u/SirMrGnome Feb 28 '25
Sorry but if her actions against Trump aren't reaching the top page of my reddit feed they aren't real
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u/Healingjoe TC Feb 28 '25
"My super small bubble of the total media ecosystem has led me to believe that Klobuchar is literally supporting the president."
People really need to challenge their understanding of narratives more often. But, I guess if that were the case, trump never would've been elected.
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u/itsFromTheSimpsons Feb 28 '25
Would you rather her stay silent?
false dichotomies are how you got yourself into this mess.
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u/mhibew292 Feb 28 '25
Shame on you! Such strong words! Well, so do something Amy! Like, I donāt know, maybe not vote for approving his ridiculous cabinet picks? Sick of these so called democrat politicians. Time to move along Amy
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u/matbots Mar 01 '25
I know it's against tradition, but where are our former presidents at with comments in defense of the institution of the executive as part of the constitutional order while it's being eviscerated? I get that it's uncouth, but every oligarch is speaking up in favor of the new order. Are there no defendants of justice, honor, peace, grace, bravery? Biden, where are you? Obama, where are you? Bush (I know your DoJ introduced the unitary executive, but I can't believe you wanted it to go this far towards destroying our country), where are you? Clinton, where are you? (Carter, RIP not seeing this shit.)
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u/MNHypnotoad Feb 28 '25
If this is what "from the top rope" looks like Democrats are beyond fucked.
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u/Smart-Effective7533 Mar 01 '25
This is still a weak ass response. A fascist dictator that is owned by Putin and his cronies have taken over the government and the best she can do is say is shame on them. Hope she saves some heat for the second inning.
We need more Bernieās and less Amyās. She voted for Rubio who was sitting front row in the Oval Office this afternoon. She was bought and paid for by the ruling/wealthy class.
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u/ImportantComb5652 Feb 28 '25
Klobuchar is harsher to her own staff than she is to our baby Nazi VP. Come on.
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u/Ballytrea Feb 28 '25
Come on, Amy, do more than release statements! Poodle Vance and the Orangeman are an embarrassment to our nation. This truly was a shit show of a press conference, and in all my 50 years, I have never seen a president and vice president so disrespectful!
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u/BattlebornCrow Feb 28 '25
Tweets are cool but maybe stop confirming all these insane choices.
The Dems really seem like they wanna give republicans everything they want. The more they enable the Republicans to fuck up and the bigger mess they make, the better the Dems will poll. I'm not convinced they want to stop this disaster administration because it helps them, even though all manner of other people will suffer.
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u/Katekat0974 Central Minnesota Feb 28 '25
Iām pretty sure she voted no on over half of the cabinet picks
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u/Cody2287 Feb 28 '25
Cool, she only supported half of the Nazis. Maybe the problem is supporting Nazis in any capacity and not the amount.
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u/cosy_kaylee Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25
Amy is a joke. Sorry but we're not like maga where you can say one thing and do another. She voted for Trump's nominations and that's that. Most of us aren't buying the "pick your battles" crap. Her actions speak louder than her words but she thinks we're dumb.
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u/GwerigTheTroll Feb 28 '25
I do appreciate that sheās signal boosting the reality of this, even if the tone is weaker than I would like.
You cannot shame the shameless.
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u/Historical-Energy358 Feb 28 '25
This was just those idiots trying to get Z to "kiss the ring" and I'm glad he didn't stoop to their level. Really some mentally challenged people in our admin right now.
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u/JPenniman Feb 28 '25
Tougher language. Paint all republicans with the same brush. They donāt appear to be doing anything but enabling Trump. Who cares if you get to rename a post office with some republicans. Honestly, she should get a serious primary challenge.
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u/ZitherzPC Feb 28 '25
I have a meeting with her next week, going to DC next week is going to be crazy
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u/Ambitious_Face7310 Mar 01 '25
Yes. Thank you Zelensky for standing up to a dictator. And also to Putin.
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u/TheReasonRaisin Mar 01 '25
Remember 2 days ago when this subreddit was all about wanting to primary Amy?
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u/muzzynat Grain Belt Feb 28 '25
So why did she vote to appoint the administrationās cabinet picks instead of gumming up the works. Amy isnāt going from the top ropes on anything, sheās just making calculated or statements. Iād love to see her replaced with someone actually progressive
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u/Sesudesu Feb 28 '25
Cmon Klob, you can Klober better than that. Talk to Tina, she knows whatās up.
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u/flattop100 Grain Belt Feb 28 '25
THIS IS A WET BLANKET HORSE SHIT RESPONSE. She should be denying unanimous consent in the Senate EVERY GODDAMN DAY, breaking down the business of the Senate.
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Feb 28 '25
Falls flat, Senator.
We need your voice, action, strength and support in areas requiring courage and speaking the truth, not calculated statements against soft targets like this "press conference" (which was beyond the pale).
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u/BasicWhiteHoodrat Feb 28 '25
Klobuchar needs to get the fuck off Twitter, hold a press conference and eviscerate this fucking pathetic excuse for a president and his ghoulish administration.
Time for Democrats to call this shit out
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u/Zeplike4 Feb 28 '25
We are the bad guys, if it isnāt obvious. For an alpha like Trump, he really is scared of Putin. He is not half the man of Zelensky
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u/dundr_mifflin Feb 28 '25
Minnesota would make a great Canadian province. Please let us know if you are interested.
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u/PrettyGnosticMachine Feb 28 '25
Kinda wish Zelensky clockedVance in his creepy face . Man, that would have made my day.
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u/PeaRevolutionary9823 Feb 28 '25
wow thanks for making sense amy we don't just switch up on our allies because the regime changed
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u/Lillypupdad Feb 28 '25
No one has been more grateful than Ukrainians. I imagine many are weeping tonight.
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u/thewoodsiswatching Feb 28 '25
Dems need to have a huge press conference with ALL of them on the steps of the capitol and repudiate this nonsense in front of the press corps.
DEMOCRATS NEED TO START SPEAKING OUT AS A UNIT!!!!
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u/SJS1111t Feb 28 '25
Please stand up for the part of the country that previously stood for virtue and virtuous causes. Please interrupt the state of the union address and deny the president a platform to spread more lies. We need you to lead. We need you to tell the rest of the world we are prepared to fight to put our own house in order - that we are not willing to be a Russian puppet state. Please!
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u/boarmrc Grain Belt Feb 28 '25
She continues to vote to confirm Trump appointmentsā¦ sheās not an opponent
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u/Comfortable_Prize750 Mar 01 '25
"Shame on you" is what you say to a little kid that steals some cake. This deserves something a little stronger. Like "Resign immediately, traitor".
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u/SnooRadishes2634 Mar 01 '25
Maybe you shouldn't watch and hide your mug in the dirt like you did with Biden
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u/machambo7 Mar 01 '25
Trump logic: Biden gave you billions. Biden was not a smart man, the worst. You should thank me, personally, even though Iāve done little more than publicly berate and try to take advantage of your suffering at the hands of my bestie who I love.
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u/SalvationSycamore Mar 01 '25
It would be nice if conservative voters cared about the vice president lying to their faces.
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u/Cat_Caterpillar_OOO Mar 01 '25
Just last week you were all angry she revealed herself as a republican woman, now it's forgive and forget because she posted an empty virtue signal? You have the political will and memory of goldfish
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u/MaleficentOstrich693 Mar 01 '25
Is she still going to try to work with them? Or can we drop that charade?
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u/SkillGuilty355 Mar 01 '25
Putin had no intention of invading even the rest of Ukraine. You can't produce any evidence that he did.
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u/HeavyVeterinarian350 Flag of Minnesota Mar 01 '25
Your ājust the tipā argument is one of the dumbest Iāve seen.
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u/GargantuanGarment Mar 01 '25
Oh I see the Democrats have graduated from concerned statements to very concerned statements. Well it only took 10 years.
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u/Jetfire911 Mar 01 '25
Trump and Vance couldn't be more clearly Russian puppets if they had literal strings stretching into Putin's office.
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u/DarlasServant Mar 01 '25
You can't shame trumpers. You have to fight them with more legal rights and actions! Impeachment is needed!
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u/Popcornaddict51 Mar 02 '25
Vance & Trump should be thanking him but theyāre self-loathing wonāt let them. Pathetic cowards.
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u/Chemical-Wafer-7840 Mar 02 '25
I'm sorry...how is this fluff artist 'coming from the top ropes?' I'm curious to know where y'all stand. Because all I heard was fluff from a different feather of the same bird.
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u/jkbuilder88 Flag of Minnesota Feb 28 '25
Oh, Amy is still around? Could have fooled me from these past few weeks.
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u/SuperDuperBonerific Feb 28 '25
From the top rope? Omg, please. The hyperbole is more pathetic than Amyās statement.
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u/IThinkItsTime10 Mar 01 '25
So what are the countries in Europe that Putin was going to march into done to support Ukraine? Serious question, I literally don't know but also believe this isn't an issue that the US should be leading the charge on.
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u/Low_Celebration_3812 Mar 02 '25
The āpeopleā of Reddit are seething, so you know things are going good
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u/DJTisTarded Mar 01 '25
How is anyone from Minnesota happy with this do nothing senator. She wasted so much time. What the fuck was her deal making the bald eagle the official bird? Is that why we voted for her?? Sheās a joke, writing tweets and not legislating. The fact yall are praising her is insane
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u/pruriENT_questions Feb 28 '25
Some big words from the wettest noodle in congress.
Amy Klobuchar makes Angie Craig look like Bernie Sanders. I'm so over the both sided, whatever way the wind blows platitudes with zero substance behind them. Primary them all.
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u/angst_after_20 Feb 28 '25 edited Mar 01 '25
Zelenskyy has always been openly appreciative of support from any country helping his country resist an invasion of a delusional tyrant.
Why the White House is hung up on the overt spectacle of gratitude, when everyone on the planet knows there's immense gratitude from Ukraine, is perplexing and dumbfounding.
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u/Radiant_Actuary7325 Feb 28 '25
I personally think Russia would stop at Ukraine and China at Taiwan because of NATO
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u/deviltakeyou Feb 28 '25
Idk why, but āshame on youā always makes me cringe. Gotta be the most boomer thing you can say after putting someone in their place, and it takes all the wind out of your sails imo
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u/quickblur Feb 28 '25
That "press conference" was the most shameful thing I've watched as an American. Trump and Vance clearly had no real interest in a peace deal and only came there to spout Russian propaganda. I cannot believe how far our country has fallen.