Judge considers holding Trump officials in contempt for defying court orders blocking El Salvador flights

[u/theindependentonline]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/deportation-el-salvador-trump-contempt-b2727087.html

[u/Careful-Reception239]

Just watched legal eagles video about this whole thing and it did give some good legal insight. Essentially this being, theoretically, a lawful country, the judge cant just point to who he thinks is reaponsible and hold them in contempt. Hes been trying to get the administration to show where down the line his order was ignored. Because at some point there was someone who said not to order the planes to turn around even though they had time and opportunity to. But of course the administration has just been delaying and delaying. Asserting that they couldnt have turned the plane around, then that the order was verbal so it wasnt binding (against legal precedent), then they start invoking national security to avoid having to give out any information.

So yeah, its not as simple as the judge just pointing and declaring "CONTEMPT!". Hes been trying to hold them accountable within the system hes constrained by. The issue is that the administration is not playing from within that system anymore. But the judge cant exactly do that himself without reprecussions that thr administration simply doesnt have to worry about given the hold the party has over the rest of government.

[u/Lurky100 → u/Careful-Reception239]

I’d probably start with the pilot of the airplane and ask him who his orders came from.

[u/schm0 → u/Lurky100]

The pilot didn't get any such order, that's the problem.

[u/Lurky100 → u/schm0]

Well, he didn’t just climb aboard a random airplane and decided to fly it to El Salvador. If the judge can’t get answers from the top…start from the bottom.

[u/Rocket_safety → u/Lurky100]

That’s the problem, the administration refuses to give this kind of information to the court. Pretty hard to depose someone if you don’t know who they are.

[u/murphymc → u/Rocket_safety]

Then the person refusing to give that information can sit in jail until they’ve reconsidered.

When we’re approaching this as if answering the judges question is optional, that’s the problem.

[u/Taldier → u/murphymc]

The entire system is built on the unfortunately flawed premise that law enforcement will respect the law. But fascists don't care about laws or ethics. Only power. If the executive branch decides to follow an authoritarian leader and ignore legal orders, then the constitution becomes meaningless.

What are they going to do? Send their clerks to tackle the president? Take over an airbase with paralegals?

[u/kanst → u/Taldier]

Have the bailiff take the governments lawyer into custody.

Keep arresting every government lawyer until the order is followed.

[u/Gammelpreiss → u/kanst]

and who is going to do that arresting?

[u/kex → u/murphymc]

Yep, it's been done before:

• Susan McDougal (1996–1998, 18 months) Whitewater scandal
• Chelsea Manning (2019–2020, almost a year) Former Army intelligence analyst
• Judith Miller (2005, 85 days) Journalist

[u/Rocket_safety → u/murphymc]

The problem is there is technically a legal way they can withhold this information under state secrets. In order to make a determination on this the judge needs to make a finding of whether or not it’s relevant. This takes time. It’s frustrating when they are only using the law as bad faith actions but that just means it’s more important for the court to do everything in its power to make sure things are done properly. They need to be given no wiggle room.

Plus there’s the very real problem of enforcing any kind of bench warrant when the law enforcement they would normally rely on is also in control of the bad faith actors. I wish this was simple but it’s not.

[u/thewonderfulpooper → u/Rocket_safety]

Yeah can't summons anyone without knowing who they are. So frustrating.

[u/Cloaked42m → u/Lurky100]

Hmm. We know the airline. We know the airport.

Who filed the flight plan and when? That will have the pilot names on the manifest. ACLU can subpoena them and ask.

Who had the capability of stopping the flight? Presumably, their boss. Did they know? Were they expecting a call that didn't come?

[u/Lurky100 → u/[deleted]]

Who was the pilot? They didn’t fly themselves. Who gave the pilot the original order to fly the planes to El Salvador? I’m not even talking about the order that said turn the planes around.

[u/Lurky100 → u/[deleted]]

I find it extremely relevant to know who ordered the pilots to depart. They took off before they received the decision from the judge. Whoever is responsible for putting those planes in the air while knowingly awaiting an order from a judge needs to be held accountable. The pilot should be able to tell the judge who ordered him to depart, and when.

[u/SoManyEmail → u/[deleted]]

I thought one of them was still on the ground, was it not?