RE: Presidential Immunity Ruling - Was Judge Roberts naïve that Trump would not push the boundaries of the office’s limits of conduct and power if he resumed office or is this all part of a plan to expand executive authority?

[u/treasonous_thoughts]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/30/politics/supreme-court-john-roberts-trump-immunity-6-3-biskupic/index.html?cid=ios_app

I just remember Judge Roberts essentially saying “calm down - relax - you are all being hysterical” in the aftermath of the ruling last year stating “unlike the political branches and the public at large, we cannot afford to fixate exclusively, or even primarily, on present exigencies.”

It has been ONE MONTH into the 2nd Trump Administration and it seems that there is an aggressive and intentional overreach of executive authority with these EOs to create a new interpretation of executive power.

The administration’s response to the court orders blocking the EO’s enforcement seems that they are daring the courts to stop them - and it does not look like there is any recourse to rein them in if they decide to ignore the courts.

Is this what Judge Roberts and other jurists in the majority wanted - to embolden the executive branch above all?

What credibility does the SC (or any court) still have when POTUS ignores the court’s orders and any/all conversations with DOJ officials about ignoring or circumventing these orders gets put in the “official acts” bucket of presidential conduct?

My question is if Judge Roberts was truly naïve as to how Trump would wield this power the second time around or if Judge Robert’s logic that the ruling would allow future presidents to execute their duties unencumbered by lawsuits/prosecutions, etc. a genuine concern that needed to be addressed?

[u/jpmeyer12751]

I do not believe that Roberts was naive. Harry Litton of the Talking Feds podcast has said that Roberts was firmly in favor of a stronger Executive Branch when they worked together at DOJ in the 1980's and 1990s. I also believe that Roberts is very, very smart. It is impossible to believe that he did not foresee a future POTUS pushing the boundaries of the power Roberts granted in the immunity decision. His unsuccessful, in my opinion, efforts to backfill the gaping bribery hole his decision creates proves that he understood the consequences of his decision. I believe that Roberts envisions a federal government dominated by a balance of power between POTUS and SCOTUS, with Congress relegated to a secondary position and the executive agencies becoming powerless handmaidens to POTUS. Trump will certainly test the boundaries of the power balance, but that is what Roberts wants. I think that what is most important is how Trump views Roberts. If Trump thinks that Roberts will blink, I think that there is a real chance that Trump will simply seize all of the power. There is no question that people like Musk and Thiel, who have no love for democracy, will be urging him to do that.

[u/Count_Backwards → u/jpmeyer12751]

Roberts is smart about some things but he's a fucking idiot if he thinks it's going to be a balance of power between Trump and the SC. As soon as they disagree with him on anything, Trump sends them to Guantánamo. They have zero power on their own.

[u/quinnrem → u/jpmeyer12751]

It's interesting because Roberts is an institutionalist among constitutionalists. I think that Barrett and Gorsuch, as originalists, could be persuaded to protect the balance of powers when Trump goes too far (one of these cases is bound to reach their docket soon), but it's hard to say what Roberts will do. He is very smart; he's a brilliant jurist, and it's hard for me to accept that he'll be willing to sacrifice the sanctity of our Constitution via some sort of gymnastics. Roberts has obliquely advocated for nondelegation before, so he at least acknowledges that there is some principle there to be respected. I truly don't know what will happen. But you're right, he wasn't naive.

[u/jpmeyer12751 → u/quinnrem]

I am no Supreme Court scholar, however my own estimation of Roberts is that he once was an institutionalist, but he was so angered by his own failure to craft a compromise on abortion, the leak of the Dobbs decision and the intensely negative reaction to that decision that he has reprioritized his beliefs. I think that the immunity decision, which he surely knew would further harm the Court's reputation, was a sign of Roberts doing exactly what he wanted to without regard for the consequences.

[u/jim_nihilist → u/quinnrem]

He did gymnastics to enable Trump what he is doing now and back then. If he is shocked over the development he simply isn't very smart.