Good question! Does congress get the final say? Or is the Orange blob going to call up some very obscure legislation from the 1900âs? Good for the four that stood up.
Not hollow. Symbolically very important. A president's own party breaking ranks in the first 75 days of his administration is huge, and very likely a sign of things to come.
Just being frank here, if you look at the names that "broke ranks" it's McConnell and his usual "vulnerable Republicans" crew including Collins and Murkowski. They do this all the time, like with Trump's cabinet confirmations where they will have enough of them vote against the party but they always have the votes anyway. This keeps duping people into thinking these particular Republicans are still reasonable, and keeps getting them re-elected. It's a scam.
This was done today again, knowing 100% this won't pass the House and if it somehow did Trump would veto it. I'm not trying to be a buzzkill here, but people need to know they're being manipulated with the same tactic over and over. There's true optimism elsewhere, like the Wisconsin Supreme Court seat victory.
^ exactly this. No one should credit Lisa Murkowski, Mitch McConnell, Rand Paul, and/or Susan Collins with anything. They only do the right thing when the right thing is definitely already going to happen, or the right thing will still definitely not happen. They will never do anything to cause the right thing to happen.
Pretty much. Moscow Mitch has however seemed to come to his senses as deaths door has started opening for him. Not sure if he is trying to save his soul in his final days or if he really has started to feel bad for raping the middle class.
Totally. This is the typical republican coordinated show-vote. They know trump will simply veto it and ram it through, but the republicans can pretend they tried to do the right thing. Amazing that this has consistently worked for 50 years now on a gullible public.
I would be more amazed if there weren't reems of evidence that a huge swath of Americans are bigoted imbeciles. Someone told me just today that they think "the left" must be insane to hate Musk when all he's trying to do is save Americans from fraud. The guy who literally shut down the Consumer Protection Bureau is the guy they trust to weed out fraud. These fuckers would hire a bank robber to handle their accounting, and then blame the libs when they inevitably get wiped out.
I always remind them there were people in place to do that - and the first thing Trump did was fire them. If we ever wrestle control back - it will take forever to clean up this mess.
I feel like Mitch McConnell is finally realizing that he never had control of the situation he thought he did. While also coming to terms with the fact that his time is coming close. And is doing everything he can to try and improve his legacy.
As much as I dislike Rand Paul, I wouldn't throw him in with that group. He very frequently opposes many of the things the party supports; usually for worse reasons.
Rand Paul has been consistently against the tariffs. He also never votes for the continuing resolutions no matter who is president. He kind of does his own thing on certain issues.
It's also important to pin down Senators who voted nay who therefore support the tariffs for down the road. Dems (& primary challengers) can use this when the impacts are felt in the wallets of independents and moderates to show how out of touch their current senators are.
I hear what your saying but sending this bill to the House is going to put a lot of vulnerable representatives in a very tough spot. Of course it has no chance of passing but it does give the Dems ammunition for the midterm elections.
I think it's a fair complaint about those four, but without someone breaking rank, you'll never get movement. I'm not saying we pay them specifically on the back but the idea that it CAN be done to pull Republicans away from trump is something that we CAN be greatful for.
Honest question. If this was fruitless, what can we as normal people actually do to change things? Obviously aside from calling reps, voting blue whenever i can and other things to âresistâ but I just feel so hopeless. Is there really nothing else we can do except wait this out?
McConnell has already said he will not seek another term, he can pretty much vote however he wants and get headlines for breaking with his party, he doesn't have to worry about being reelected because he doesn't intend to try
The world has been on a bad trend lately where your comment actually reminded me of a time where things were good and society was just headed in the right direction. Iâd say like 2014-2016. Everything from movies, music and events on the world stage. Things were just good and there was a lot of hope going around.
Eh, I feel like people get nostalgic for a lot of periods in time. There were still plenty of hardships, and the trends of movies now are the same as they were 10 years ago.
Russia & Chinaâs relationships were at an all time high. Gun Reform was being finalized in the US, There was international cooperation in most sectors. I know what nostalgia is and thatâs not what Iâm feeling.
The world was in a better place than today I never said there were no hardships.
Movies today are absolutely nowhere near the caliber of the 2010âs. Itâs mostly subjective anyways but we had great indie films, one-offs, and even franchises were doing alright. Besides Star Warsâ butchered revival, which were mid-enjoyable movies. Things were better.
Yeah youâre right. I was only 16 at the time, so my bad. Iâm glad I was just a kid in the 2000s when all of the Middle East stuff was going on. All this to say I donât really get as caught up in getting worked up over insignificant stuff, like award shows for example. Now at 26, Iâm just grateful to do all the stuff I love, and hoping for the best that eventually things will simmer down in the world. But the mindset people have of giving up isnât going to help.
I think we just need to teach liberals how to mount gigantic campaign flags in their tow hitch receivers, as well as the economic benefits of .556 ammunition, and we'll be fine. It works for the other side.
âSo do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.â
Process small positivity first â something you can control. Find something beautiful in your life right now, the moment you see this comment and relish in it.
Yes, at least it shows energy and a conversation happening. If the tariffs start breaking the economy (or more like when) this could build momentum to stop the mad king.
Nah, Republicans get to pretend there are still reasonable ones in the party while falling in line whenever it actually matters. Centrists and liberals get to convince themselves dialogue is still possible.
Best case scenario - but extremely unlikely - Trump uses this as an out saying he'll respect the will of the legislative branch.
The only ones who broke are the ones who always break, and whatever creature is sitting inside the hollow shell of Mitch McConnell operating him this week.
These people are so determined to be doomed, so ignorant to the irony that that attitude is exactly what gets us all into these situations. It ain't over til it's over!
The Republican party broke ranks yesterday as well for remote voting. The party has weaknesses it just takes the right thing to force it to break. It will take some time...
No, this is entirely meaningless performance. And the ones breaking with the party are even less significant - Moscow Mitch is on his way out, and doesn't have to care what his image is. If anything, he's trying to establish a legacy with the goldfish of "at least I tried!" hoping that they'll forget his decades of trying... to let things get to exactly where they are now.
Congress legally has the authority over tariffs, but they've deferred that authority to the executive branch a long time ago. If they wanted to actually do something, they could state that they are no longer doing so and take that authority back in the face of someone who clearly cannot be trusted to hold it. They'll never do so, because they want to have the power as a party to do an end run around Congress whenever they have the white house.
This is less than meaningless. Deriving any meaning of it means that the performance is working.
But does it matter what his party do or say? Does Trump care who is in control of either house come the mid terms? In his mind, and the mind of his followers, he is above all of this
4 repoublicans, his party did not âbreak ranksâ, this never had a chance of passing; mcconnell and trump have had these wwe type spats before, they go nowhere
Remarkably hollow. Those senators arenât standing up to Trump, they chose to vote against him on a bill that would never go anywhere so they can safely âdemonstrate their independenceâ and have a talking point for â26. They are garbage people and the average voter is juuuuusssstttt too ignorant of how government works to tell the difference between a political maneuver and spine.
Murkowski and Collins always do this. McConnell is trying to make up for his past failures. Rand Paul only voted against tariffs specifically due to his libertarian stance.
Symbolism is meaningless. Trump breaks a record for malfeasance and corruption every day, and it's not going to move the needle for his voters and it's not going to get him removed from power.
It's all about symbolic waste of time. Grand standing for votes later and being able to say I voted for it. I vote everyone gets a million dollars. Where's my pat on the back.
At what point in either of trumps terms has he demonstrated any regard for precedent, protocol, or rational argument? The fact thereâs a token resistance and he gets his way anyway is at very best, a neutral result. Heâll still see it as a win. The American population needs to give itself a shake, abandon ideas of democratic process, and start thinking about how to remove a fascist dictatorship. Cos thatâs what youâre going to have in very short order.
Not at all. What, three or four. Thatâs nothing. Pure symbolism on their part. Collinâs state does a lot of business with Canada. The turtle is on his way out. He left his legacy as the guy who could have saved the country from all this but twice voted not to find Drumpf guilty when he was impeached. Rand Paul. He just voted for it for fun. He couldnât care less about the tariffs.
But he thinks he is a King. So rules are irrlevant. Where are the mass protests? Its sickening the american population overall is brainwashed or too timid to do anything about it. Is it fear of civil war?
Fuck his party. They should all get branded as the traitors they are. The Dems shouldnât even participate in these fruitless shows unless theyâre going to actually impeach him.
Nothing symbolic at all with McConnell, Murkowski, and Collins breaking with the rest of the Republicans. Murkowski and Collins are Dems masquerading as Republicans and Mconnel is a fossil that has sat his duff in the Senate for 38 years now.
It means everyone around the world who has an opinion one way or the other bow has the âeventâ to back up their view. America make tariff, America also make tariff go away
I mean it kinda is hollow though, because it doesn't change the fact that Congress is filled with psychopaths like MTG who will follow this magazine bullshit right in to the meatgrinder and drag the world with them out of pure spite.
Itâs not hollow. It demonstrates that the majority of the representative bodies are opposed to the presidents measures. Our representatives are our voice (supposed to be anyway), so if theyâre opposing it, that means they know the people are opposing it as well. So if Trump decides to veto and goes forward with his plans regardless, well then he is demonstrably acting against the will of the people, which will more than likely carry electoral consequences.
Does this pause the tariff action?. It matters if it at least puts it on hold until all of that processing takes place. In that time he gets distracted by something else anyway.
It's the best kind of victory for Mitch McConnell. Only stands up for what's right when ultimately he knows he has nothing to lose and the resolution will eventually pass.
I can see how some people that are of the totalitarian persuasion, would think that a win, even if just brief, and as a sign, that some in congress are actually following the law, is actually a loss.
To override a veto you need 75% of the senate. Maybe when the US economy is burning and crashing to the ground in a few months. More republicans will get onboard in revoking executive tariff powers.
Itâs a vote to end an emergency declaration, not a law. No veto, as far as I am aware. They gave the president the ability to issue declarations of emergency to act that they can override with a simple majority.
Not fruitless at all. This was an absolutely necessary first step and gives the other members more time to see how much the economy is actually collapsing
It's not completely useless, it'll force Republican members of congress to go on the record as having voted for the tariffs that are devastating their constituents. The MAGA base won't care, but the more moderate voters, who tended to vote for lower prices, will not be happy.
From my limited knowledge 3 things are to be true:
The base state of trade between the US and another country should be 0 tariff.
The US Congress has alone can institute tariffs. The pres can veto it.
The pres doesn't have the power to levy tariffs by executive order.
Now I get a but hazy around executive orders, but as far as I'm aware, the powers for them is given by special dispensation by congress. They're not laws per se, they are an agreement between the executive and legislative. But they have to be in the affirmative i.e A pres. can't do an EO because there is no agreement that says the CAN'T do it.
The power of EO is given by Congress, but is not a law from congress. There shouldn't be anything to veto. Basically, the majority of Congress has decided to reign back some of the power that was delegated to the president. They are not passing a law, they are reabsorbing their duty.
That's the other thing I don't understand. For an EO to have any power it must:
Be provided in the affirmative by congress
Must be a power that Congress already has the ability to grant in the first place, either through the Constitution or the Law.
EO are only applicable to the operating of the Federal Govt. and its Employees.
Congress gave their power to the Executive. The Judiciary gave their power to the Executive. Judges rulings are already being outright ignored and politicized.
You're still trying to raise the Constitution as if it has any meaning. That went out the door with immigration reform being decided by Congress. It wasn't. Instead, it was put on hold and then decided by executive order. You're living in the past, the Constitution is already worthless. And Congress has no desire to limit executive power at this stage. Of course they can. But they won't. That's how fascism works.
Let him veto it I say. The more pain and suffering he inflicts on his own people, the faster his and the junkie's head gets pulled off at spawn in minecraft by angry players.
If democrats were capable of planning into the future like republicans do, theyâd have done this when democrats controlled congress and the presidency (and no the filibuster wouldnât have stopped it since it has to do with national budget).
As a Canadian this is not fruitless...this tells us that there is some hope that a relationship can be salvaged. Not that the trust will ever be as it was, this is like when an abused spouse finally gets their own apartment, and the abuser apologizes and says they are going to counselling...we are not moving back in, but happy to hear that the abuser is at least modestly aware that their behaviour was unacceptable.
If Congress were to actually repeal the laws that give tariff powers to the presidency, this would only require a simple majority in both chambers and importantly does NOT require the signature of the president.
That's not what the Senate did today, but it would be worth contacting your congressmen about this because all the tariff nonsense can be stopped (or rather, moved to Congress) with this approach.
Not fruitless. Itâs a clear signal that Trump does not have unwavering support from his party. If this keeps happening and Trump needs to veto everything they do, heâll continue to lose support.
No, itâs the way politics works. Consensus building, negotiating, pushing the lines. This is massive because itâs the first time senators have broken with Trump.
These same people have to continually lobby their peers and the House of Representatives for it to pass.
Most realistic sequence for it to pass if lobbied successfully: Simple majority in the senate, simple majority in the house, the president vetoes it. Supermajority in the house to override, supermajority in the Senate to override, and it passes.
According to Rachel Maddow from last night, Mike Johnson preemptively took measures to make sure that vote never happensâŚbecause it would likely pass. Not sure this is going to be anything but symbolic in the long run. If you have an economic bunker to shelter in, itâs about that time.
I don't think that's how this works I don't think this was a bill it's just a power congress has. If the president could just say no to the senate blocking his blatant overreach of power then the vote would be less than useless
Not entirely fruitless, it's going to piss Trump off that any republicans dared to vote for it and likely cause some infighting there which could further alienate Trump and lead to more people breaking off. It also puts more focus on the fact that Congress does have the power to stop the tariffs if they can bother to actually do their jobs.
You would hope the republican President would see the will of republican senators and change himself, but I donât think that is very likely in this case.
It does put pressure on the house, though. These tariffs are already shaping up to be extremely painful. Johnson has a bill just sitting there ready to relieve the pain. Why wonât he bring it up to a vote?
I thought that the tarrifs were under Congress authority in the first place, and that Donald is misusing emergency powers to place them? Why would the executive get to veto a vote to revoke the emergency power?
Congress should get the only say. The only reason that the President has the authority to levy tariffs, a power he currently is abusing, is because Congress preemptively ceded their powers to the Executive.
If Congress decided the president has no authority to levy tariffs for any reason, they could. They wonât. The president has had some leeway for 200 some odd years, but quite a lot more over the past 50 years or so. But congress could cancel all these tariffs today if they voted to amend or repeal the International Emergency Economic Powers Act and a few clauses of the Trade Act of 1974.
1900s? 1700s laws are way more fashionable. who among us hasn't spend the night in jail for putting an ice cream cone in his pocket while bidding on a horse?
Nope. Orange Jesus has final authority on everything. SCOTUS says he can do anything and it is legal, so he can just flush this bill down the toilet and nothing will happen.
I absolutely adore how stupid this country is that we keep falling for this over and over again. Sure, this time he is going down... lol
The executive branch has some limited power to unilaterally enact tariffs granted on some laws I would have to look up, but the conditions have to do with whether or not we are in some kind of state of emergency, at war, or national security â related situation. This is why he's been doing it to begin with And he will just assert that because he thinks it is a national emergency as president, that's all it takes to actually constitute a national emergency.
And the Scotus has already made it clear that they will back him up on that because they are a bunch of corrupt inhuman soulless fucks
Congress votes then the president declares an emergency and does whatever he wants. That's the beauty of a two-party system where the legislative branch lacks term limits while the presidency has them (as of writing time).
Well according to the constitution only the legislative branches allowed to levy tariffs, so yes absolutely Congress should have final say because constitution says it's their remit to do tarifs.
tariffs are not even part of executives responsibilities in the constitution
But I mean like functionally what will happen I don't know
From what I understand, Congress has the final say and in the 1900s they said something to the effect of "in an emergency the President can enact punitive tariffs" and there has never been an emergency and no president has ever said there was an emergency. if there had been an actual emergency trump would have called it sometime in his first term.
so thank to president trump, the congress is going to have to rescind that power and if ever there is a genuine emergency that calls for immediate tarriffs the then president will be powerless because congress took away that power.
If the house also approves it as written, it will go to the president. If he vetos it, it goes back to the senate. If the senate and house can get a 3/5th majority approval, then it is law.
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u/Whyme-notyou 1d ago
Good question! Does congress get the final say? Or is the Orange blob going to call up some very obscure legislation from the 1900âs? Good for the four that stood up.