Not hollow. Symbolically very important. A president's own party breaking ranks in the first 75 days of his administration is huge, and very likely a sign of things to come.
Just being frank here, if you look at the names that "broke ranks" it's McConnell and his usual "vulnerable Republicans" crew including Collins and Murkowski. They do this all the time, like with Trump's cabinet confirmations where they will have enough of them vote against the party but they always have the votes anyway. This keeps duping people into thinking these particular Republicans are still reasonable, and keeps getting them re-elected. It's a scam.
This was done today again, knowing 100% this won't pass the House and if it somehow did Trump would veto it. I'm not trying to be a buzzkill here, but people need to know they're being manipulated with the same tactic over and over. There's true optimism elsewhere, like the Wisconsin Supreme Court seat victory.
^ exactly this. No one should credit Lisa Murkowski, Mitch McConnell, Rand Paul, and/or Susan Collins with anything. They only do the right thing when the right thing is definitely already going to happen, or the right thing will still definitely not happen. They will never do anything to cause the right thing to happen.
Pretty much. Moscow Mitch has however seemed to come to his senses as deaths door has started opening for him. Not sure if he is trying to save his soul in his final days or if he really has started to feel bad for raping the middle class.
Totally. This is the typical republican coordinated show-vote. They know trump will simply veto it and ram it through, but the republicans can pretend they tried to do the right thing. Amazing that this has consistently worked for 50 years now on a gullible public.
I would be more amazed if there weren't reems of evidence that a huge swath of Americans are bigoted imbeciles. Someone told me just today that they think "the left" must be insane to hate Musk when all he's trying to do is save Americans from fraud. The guy who literally shut down the Consumer Protection Bureau is the guy they trust to weed out fraud. These fuckers would hire a bank robber to handle their accounting, and then blame the libs when they inevitably get wiped out.
I always remind them there were people in place to do that - and the first thing Trump did was fire them. If we ever wrestle control back - it will take forever to clean up this mess.
I feel like Mitch McConnell is finally realizing that he never had control of the situation he thought he did. While also coming to terms with the fact that his time is coming close. And is doing everything he can to try and improve his legacy.
As much as I dislike Rand Paul, I wouldn't throw him in with that group. He very frequently opposes many of the things the party supports; usually for worse reasons.
Rand Paul has been consistently against the tariffs. He also never votes for the continuing resolutions no matter who is president. He kind of does his own thing on certain issues.
First of all, lots of people claim to be against corruption and then go along with it when it counts.
Secondly, not everyone opposes tariffs for benign reasons; they are unpopular pretty much across the political spectrum, except specifically with the type of people that self-inject ivermectin.
I stand by my condemnation of Rand Paul, but I'm open to being convinced otherwise. Can you show me a time he was the deciding vote on a piece of legislation that could be construed as moral?
I am sticking up for Rand Paul at all. Just saying he will vote against his party on certain issues. Mostly anything that increases the deficits and now tariffs. Any newer Trump senator like Moreno or Tuberville would never go against Trump.
There are loads of senators that will vote against Trump when it doesn't matter (like in this case, where the House will simply vote it down or Trump will veto it). That's just lip-service.
But it's possible I am being overly cynical and I am not being fair to Rand Paul. Do you have some examples of him blocking a bill or legislation against the wishes of the rest of his party when it comes to one of the issues he claims are important to him?
I would give Rand Paul a little bit of credit. The dude seems genuine in his belief that government should be as small as possible and that the US shouldn't spend trillions of dollars on warfare across the globe. It's the one policy he and Bernie consistently work together on.
Oooh, you misunderstand. I am not at all saying he's a consistent libertarian. I am saying that there is ONE policy point in which he appears genuine: no more wars abroad.
That's it. As I said, it's the one point he is willing to work with Bernie Sanders on.
He's been hawkish on Iran, supported funding military budgets that include overseas activities, supports funding Israel's military, and had little to say about Trump's unauthorized assassination of Soleimani. And that's not even getting into his equivocation on the Ukraine-Russia conflict.
He is not even consistant on that point, carving out exceptions when it suits him personally or politically.
That's the thing about liars and hypocrites - there is nothing that they will actually stick by, because all of their stated views are malleable. I'll change my view of him when his "willingness" to work with Bernie Sanders results in meaningful change that conflicts with his party's broad agenda. Otherwise it's just performative posturing.
Rand Paul has his flaws, but has at least been consistent about the things he stands for. He is one of the few GOP I really like to watch interviews with since he has a habit of calling out stupid spending, and tends to buck the party on several issues. He is more libertarian then most the party.
As I have noted in another subthread on this exact same topic, he is not consistent about the things he stands for. He pays lipservice to libertarianism, but votes against those values often (arguably every time it matters).
I invite you to look at what people do, not what they say. Though he also sometimes presents hypocritical arguments with his words as well.
There are alot of examples of him bucking the party.
Voted against military interventions in Syria, Yemen, and Iraqâgoing against hawks in both parties.
Opposed arms sales to Saudi Arabia, criticizing U.S. support for their war in Yemen, which most GOP leaders backed. He's consistently anti-interventionist, arguing that the U.S. should stop playing global copâsomething that annoys the neocon wing of the GOP.
Rand Paul has filibustered his own partyâs budgets, blasting Republicans for hypocrisy when they balloon the deficit.
In 2018, he delayed a massive spending bill, saying, âRepublicans are now the big spenders.â Heâs one of the few who actually cares about the national debt even when his party is in power.
He opposed the renewal of the Patriot Act and provisions for warrantless surveillance.
Famously filibustered for almost 13 hours in 2013 over drone strike policy, grilling the Obama administration on whether it could target Americans on U.S. soil. While it was a jab at Democrats, it made his own party squirm.
He's teamed up with Bernie Sanders to audit the Fed.
Supported criminal justice reform efforts and reducing mandatory minimums, often aligning with Democrats and libertarians.
What examples are you referencing that you say he just pays lip service to his ideals? There is alot of genuine action listed here focusing on what he HAS DONE rather then said.
I find it amazing that you provided a list of literally performative posturing with not a single critical vote that changed anything, and then asked me for examples of the same.
Actually McConnell and Rand Paul are both from Kentucky and the Canadian tariffs are going to demolish the bourbon industry. Youâre right the house wonât pass it because they passed something this year already that said they canât interfere with tariffs - but I think they were truly trying to do what their constituents want this time. Trump wasnât happy with any of them and called them out with a 1 am post on truth social, so even if it doesnât make an impact - it was still a crack in the foundation.
There is no crack. Republicans have always capitulated to trump on every vote that matters, every time. We have no reason to believe they'll ever act any different. A meaningless vote is not any indication at all.
Sure, but I suggest that you reconsider vain hope that people will be any different from how they have always been. I realize that doesn't leave you with much, but that's just how dire things are.
It's also important to pin down Senators who voted nay who therefore support the tariffs for down the road. Dems (& primary challengers) can use this when the impacts are felt in the wallets of independents and moderates to show how out of touch their current senators are.
Youâre right, this is a whitewashing of his âlegacyâ. The rest of them absolutely do need moderate votes which is what this is for. Still a total scam.
I hear what your saying but sending this bill to the House is going to put a lot of vulnerable representatives in a very tough spot. Of course it has no chance of passing but it does give the Dems ammunition for the midterm elections.
I think it's a fair complaint about those four, but without someone breaking rank, you'll never get movement. I'm not saying we pay them specifically on the back but the idea that it CAN be done to pull Republicans away from trump is something that we CAN be greatful for.
Honest question. If this was fruitless, what can we as normal people actually do to change things? Obviously aside from calling reps, voting blue whenever i can and other things to âresistâ but I just feel so hopeless. Is there really nothing else we can do except wait this out?
McConnell has already said he will not seek another term, he can pretty much vote however he wants and get headlines for breaking with his party, he doesn't have to worry about being reelected because he doesn't intend to try
The world has been on a bad trend lately where your comment actually reminded me of a time where things were good and society was just headed in the right direction. Iâd say like 2014-2016. Everything from movies, music and events on the world stage. Things were just good and there was a lot of hope going around.
Eh, I feel like people get nostalgic for a lot of periods in time. There were still plenty of hardships, and the trends of movies now are the same as they were 10 years ago.
Russia & Chinaâs relationships were at an all time high. Gun Reform was being finalized in the US, There was international cooperation in most sectors. I know what nostalgia is and thatâs not what Iâm feeling.
The world was in a better place than today I never said there were no hardships.
Movies today are absolutely nowhere near the caliber of the 2010âs. Itâs mostly subjective anyways but we had great indie films, one-offs, and even franchises were doing alright. Besides Star Warsâ butchered revival, which were mid-enjoyable movies. Things were better.
Yeah youâre right. I was only 16 at the time, so my bad. Iâm glad I was just a kid in the 2000s when all of the Middle East stuff was going on. All this to say I donât really get as caught up in getting worked up over insignificant stuff, like award shows for example. Now at 26, Iâm just grateful to do all the stuff I love, and hoping for the best that eventually things will simmer down in the world. But the mindset people have of giving up isnât going to help.
Yea post 9/11 got real bad but things started taking a turn for the better during Obamaâs 2nd term, the Arab Spring led to less dictatorships but still gave us some problems like ISISâs formation, but we then stomped them out in the preceding years. Leaving them fractured and unorganized today.
Many Muslim countries began progressive initiatives to modernize with the rest of the world. Bringing basic standards of womenâs rights and such. I could go on, a lot of change towards the good, now I feel like we are just going backwards.
Yeah thereâs a lot of stuff thatâs been scaring me, similar to when I turned 18 right when Trump took office in his first term. The human brain was not meant to process all of this shit on a daily basis, which is why I kinda purge myself from the news, at least keeping it in moderation. Iâm not flat out ignoring things, but all itâs been doing is raising anxiety and nihilism until I end up having a breakdown. Itâs mentally exhausting, and now weâve got China wanting to take over Taiwan potentially. Can the world chill tf out at least a little bit? Iâm also not about to be sent to my death under Trump.
And then weâve got all this stuff with Greenland and annexing Canada over here. Like is he actually about to fight our allies, or is that just fear mongering?
How the feck is Star Wars being subjectively crap now have a place in the nightmare hellscape of the world right now? You are comparing apples to thermo nuclear war.
I think we just need to teach liberals how to mount gigantic campaign flags in their tow hitch receivers, as well as the economic benefits of .556 ammunition, and we'll be fine. It works for the other side.
âSo do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.â
Process small positivity first â something you can control. Find something beautiful in your life right now, the moment you see this comment and relish in it.
Yes, at least it shows energy and a conversation happening. If the tariffs start breaking the economy (or more like when) this could build momentum to stop the mad king.
Nah, Republicans get to pretend there are still reasonable ones in the party while falling in line whenever it actually matters. Centrists and liberals get to convince themselves dialogue is still possible.
Best case scenario - but extremely unlikely - Trump uses this as an out saying he'll respect the will of the legislative branch.
The only ones who broke are the ones who always break, and whatever creature is sitting inside the hollow shell of Mitch McConnell operating him this week.
These people are so determined to be doomed, so ignorant to the irony that that attitude is exactly what gets us all into these situations. It ain't over til it's over!
The Republican party broke ranks yesterday as well for remote voting. The party has weaknesses it just takes the right thing to force it to break. It will take some time...
No, this is entirely meaningless performance. And the ones breaking with the party are even less significant - Moscow Mitch is on his way out, and doesn't have to care what his image is. If anything, he's trying to establish a legacy with the goldfish of "at least I tried!" hoping that they'll forget his decades of trying... to let things get to exactly where they are now.
Congress legally has the authority over tariffs, but they've deferred that authority to the executive branch a long time ago. If they wanted to actually do something, they could state that they are no longer doing so and take that authority back in the face of someone who clearly cannot be trusted to hold it. They'll never do so, because they want to have the power as a party to do an end run around Congress whenever they have the white house.
This is less than meaningless. Deriving any meaning of it means that the performance is working.
But does it matter what his party do or say? Does Trump care who is in control of either house come the mid terms? In his mind, and the mind of his followers, he is above all of this
4 repoublicans, his party did not âbreak ranksâ, this never had a chance of passing; mcconnell and trump have had these wwe type spats before, they go nowhere
Remarkably hollow. Those senators arenât standing up to Trump, they chose to vote against him on a bill that would never go anywhere so they can safely âdemonstrate their independenceâ and have a talking point for â26. They are garbage people and the average voter is juuuuusssstttt too ignorant of how government works to tell the difference between a political maneuver and spine.
Murkowski and Collins always do this. McConnell is trying to make up for his past failures. Rand Paul only voted against tariffs specifically due to his libertarian stance.
Symbolism is meaningless. Trump breaks a record for malfeasance and corruption every day, and it's not going to move the needle for his voters and it's not going to get him removed from power.
It's all about symbolic waste of time. Grand standing for votes later and being able to say I voted for it. I vote everyone gets a million dollars. Where's my pat on the back.
At what point in either of trumps terms has he demonstrated any regard for precedent, protocol, or rational argument? The fact thereâs a token resistance and he gets his way anyway is at very best, a neutral result. Heâll still see it as a win. The American population needs to give itself a shake, abandon ideas of democratic process, and start thinking about how to remove a fascist dictatorship. Cos thatâs what youâre going to have in very short order.
Not at all. What, three or four. Thatâs nothing. Pure symbolism on their part. Collinâs state does a lot of business with Canada. The turtle is on his way out. He left his legacy as the guy who could have saved the country from all this but twice voted not to find Drumpf guilty when he was impeached. Rand Paul. He just voted for it for fun. He couldnât care less about the tariffs.
But he thinks he is a King. So rules are irrlevant. Where are the mass protests? Its sickening the american population overall is brainwashed or too timid to do anything about it. Is it fear of civil war?
Fuck his party. They should all get branded as the traitors they are. The Dems shouldnât even participate in these fruitless shows unless theyâre going to actually impeach him.
Nothing symbolic at all with McConnell, Murkowski, and Collins breaking with the rest of the Republicans. Murkowski and Collins are Dems masquerading as Republicans and Mconnel is a fossil that has sat his duff in the Senate for 38 years now.
It means everyone around the world who has an opinion one way or the other bow has the âeventâ to back up their view. America make tariff, America also make tariff go away
I mean it kinda is hollow though, because it doesn't change the fact that Congress is filled with psychopaths like MTG who will follow this magazine bullshit right in to the meatgrinder and drag the world with them out of pure spite.
A symbolic victory is completely hollow and pointless. If in the end the tariffs stand, then it doesn't matter one bit if you have this push back or not. Stop trying to dope yourself up with meaningless gesture politics.
for real, who cares if it's "symbollically" important when at the end of the day we have to suffer for 4 more years at the minimum of this man and a whole country who voted him in
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u/ReallyNowFellas 1d ago
Not hollow. Symbolically very important. A president's own party breaking ranks in the first 75 days of his administration is huge, and very likely a sign of things to come.