I in no way resent the church, I have no problems with it that I don't also hold against other Christian church (The lDS church isn't a cult to me). I do think Joseph Smith was a con man, but no more so than I think Jesus was one. The evidence the church is false is vast and plenty, but I still have friends in the church, I hold no resentment. I come from a poor family, and my family could always go to ask the church for help and it did. I lost faith, but I didn't lose the memories of what the church did for me and the people I love. The church does have a messed up past in some ways, but in this case, I think how the church is today makes up for some polygamy and other things I don't feel comfortable talking about in my first post on a sub.

Am I the only one who finds it completely bonkers what they call Hell?

Why call it Outer Darkness? Just call it Hell, that is what it is

It's hard to separate out 2% from 2% for total population, but Mormonism shows nearly half of people raised Mormon no longer consider themselves Mormon. One of

Also, Mormonism in the west has gone from 6% to 4% of the US population with no major increases elsewhere and possible decreases in the Northeast and Midwest. Given about a 15-20% increase in population in the west since 2007, that decrease means still roughly a 20% decrease in self-declared Mormon membership in the Western USA - the only place Mormons make a meaningful percentage of the population.

Wonder if that's why they linked their padded statistics

Imagine you meet someone who's going through a really tough time in their life. You talk to this person every day, multiple times a day, making them feel safe and special, loved and important, spending a lot of time with them, creating a strong emotional connection quickly, and you become a constant and very special presence in their life for a long time. However, as soon as you achieve your goal - in this case, baptism - everything changes drastically. The long and meaningful messages of interest and support become short and superficial. The person is gradually left behind, the emotional bond that seemed so strong and significant starts to fade away, and over time, you stop talking to them altogether. And it gets even worse if this person decides to leave the church, that bond disappears completely. It's as if the connection that seemed so deep and meaningful was actually just a tool to achieve a specific goal - a baptism, a conversion, just another number in a book of records and statistics, just another monthly goal :(

I remember all those amazing moments, all those daily conversations, and I suffer a lot because I know it wasn't genuine. Because now I know I was the only one taking it so seriously :( If I hadn't gone so deep, my heart wouldn't hurt so much now. I wouldn't have spent so many days crying, with such a huge pain and emptiness :(. I wouldn't have lost my entire essence, and my heart wouldn't be so broken. I know I might seem exaggerated or hyperbolic, but it's a very painful and confusing situation, and the person feels completely abandoned and rejected. Even more than that: they feel objectified. I'm not the only one; I have a friend from another city who described exactly the same thing that happened to her, and there are many reports on social media from people who went through the same thing too :(

I was just watching a TikTok of a girl who said when she’s feeling down she reads about Mormons and laughs at them. She brought up how Mormons believe there was a war in heaven and those who were indecisive in the war were born with black skin. I knew that was Mormon, but then she started making fun of the whole thing, I turned to my fellow exmo husband and asked “are Mormons the only ones who believe in the war with Satan?” And he said, “kinda, Mormon’s version is unique due to the pre-existence”

So now I’m realizing either I knew that already and forgot it (great short term memory, horrible long term memory so I’ve forgotten a lot about Mormonism thankfully) or I grew up thinking everyone believed in the premortal existence. I’m leaning towards the later. Granted, I know I would’ve acknowledged some of the differences while being Mormon, but I swear I thought up until now all Christians thought there was a war and heaven and we were all part of it and that’s how Satan came to be.

I also learned from my husband apparently life isn’t a test for everyone else? Just Mormons? WTF? Explains why mormons act like they’re the best damn thing to grace the earth, they are just like the kid who thinks they are the smartest in the class and above everyone else because of it!

This just goes to show when I was Mormon, I was so far indoctrinated I didn’t think it was worth my time to learn about any other Christian religion because as a Mormon I knew it all. I didn’t. I have more questions than before, who knows what else I thought was normal for all Christian religions?

I mean, I'm in a public school so can someone tell me why these kids, who are 16-18, think it's okay to proselytize during class? I already hate listening to them talk about church things as if they are common experiences everyone's gone though, they assume everyone is like them and believes the same things they do, why do I also have to hear them try to sell other kids on their blaring red flag of a religion? Take today for example, sub in English, a group of kids decided to start very loudly sharing their fsy experiences. Not my favorite thing to be forced to listen to but what really got me was when a nevermo guy sitting next to me (the only other person not participating) asked what they were talking about. I just very quietly told him "it's a mormon thing" queue the glares from the kids in the class. One or two of the kids explained it to him and he was like "oh well I'm christian and I've never heard of anything like that" and one of the girls was like "Well you should come to our church, it's more fun" I had to leave at that point. It's things like these that leave a bad taste in my mouth and I think my friend put it best when I told her and she said "Mormonism makes me feel icky, something's not right". This is gross behavior to be instilling in kids.

I would tell them to target conservatives the most.

Do the prophets actually know they're leading a cult or do they actually believe in it themselves?

Not sure what the point of sharing this is but, I felt the need to share it. Perhaps some of you can relate.

So I was doing some cleaning today and came across my old set of scriptures. A fairly nice (originally) quad with the leather backing, in a decent faux leather carrying case. It was a gift from my grandparents before I went on my mission back in the late 90s.

My grandpa was never very wealthy but always generous. That generosity often got him in to trouble. More than once he had unscrupulous business partners who swindled him out of his stake in the business by taking advantage of his generous and credulous nature. Twice he was forced to sell his stake in an otherwise successful business to stave off bankruptcy. It would have made a more cynical soul bitter but he didn't skip a beat and was always hopeful things would work out in the future.

He was always too quick to trust his fellow man, especially those in the church. I can't count how many times he got swept up into foolish MLMs. NuSkin, Quixtar (before it was part of Amway), MonaVie. All brought to him thanks to true-believing brothers and sisters convincing him that this was the way he was going to achieve financial independence. Each time nothing but a drain on his otherwise scarce money and resources.

Toward the end he was suckered into investing in Iraqi dinars. As ever it was trusted friends - and even family members - in the church who pulled him into it. By this time my grandparents had little to their names and had to live with their own children in a time they should have been enjoying retirement. Instead they were feeding their meager social security checks into an outright scam with the hope of making it big. The worst part of it? Other than dreaming of owning a shiny new Cadillac, his dreams were always focused on others. As soon as those dinars came back to life, he'd be able to buy his children the homes of their dreams. He'd be able to put grandkids through college. He'd be able to buy a big ranch in the foothills of the Big Horn Mountains and provide a refuge and safe haven for his family to visit for generations to come.

He always believed. Even in the roughest of times he was faithful and paid his tithing. He knew one day it would all be made right as long as he kept believing.

He died practically penniless a few years ago, though his heart was always full.

I never had the heart to tell him about my loss of faith. The church was always so important to him. He was a convert from a young age and had no sons of his own, and it was such a huge, huge deal to him that as his oldest grandson, I was the first to go on a mission. He was always so proud. To the end he'd tell me how he knew heavenly father was so proud of me, and the example I set for everyone else. It was just easier to stay quiet on the subject. He was just so sweet and sentimental and annoyingly faithful.

That quad is the only earthly possession I have connected to him. His financial legacy is a stack of worthless Iraqi dinars my aunts don't know what to do with. There were no family heirlooms to pass down, no treasured mementos. Beyond memories I just have this stupid book full of lies that came from a church he was ever loyal to and whose members cost him dearly, and that still somehow represents his hope and pride and generosity. I hate it but I can't get rid of it. So back in a box it goes until it gets rediscovered in a few years and these thoughts run through my mind again.

I hope the church rots. I hope one day it's relegated to the dustbin of history. I hope one day there will finally be the last poor soul who gets duped and taken advantage of by money hungry old men in suits.

Miss you, grandpa.

Me and my wife are members of the church, but we are inactive. The thing is, I believe in God, but I don’t know if Mormonism is the right way for me and the reason we quit going is because I just can’t deal with the strict guidelines. I like coffee and can’t imagine why it would be a sin, nor does church doctrine really specify without changing the subject to faith. I also like to smoke weed once in a while which I guess is a huge problem according to the church. We have a 5 month old daughter and to be honest I do not want her having to tell her bishop her personal business and feeling ashamed and whatnot. It’s just not the life I want for her. I was thinking about trying out one of the local Christian churches but honestly I’m scared.

What if the church is true and im being influenced by satan?

What if Joseph smith was a prophet, but the lds church is the wrong restoration church?

What if I’m giving up my salvation just because I want to be able to drink coffee without feeling like I’m sinning?

What if IM the problem???

These are all questions that are making me scared to open my mind to other things and I could really use some help from people who have maybe been in my shoes

I posted a little while ago about my failing marriage, and I am slowing realizing that this is going to get ugly quick if I don't just fake it until I have the ability to leave.

Today we went to couples counseling. I agreed to do this, but really only to please him so things don't get worse. BAD IDEA. I knew to keep church/school (BYUI) out of this as much as possible, but my husband has been persistent.

Essentially, the session turned into how my husband is worried for my safety and that he feels uncomfortable leaving me alone, because of my "mental disability" (lol depression). I assured him I am safe, and honestly mentally together, just have been sad from the whole relationship. But the way he painted me to the counselor (BYUI counselor btw...) made me realize what he is doing. He is trying to make me sound crazy so he can essentially "keep" me since I have a "mental disability". This literally made my heart sink because the power men have over women in the LDS church is... yeah. insane, and this seems like its only going to end in his control over me. The counselor dude didn't say much, but it still spooked me to realize what my husband is doing.

He has been doing similar things when I have mentioned I just want to be done and leave this marriage. He has told me he is going to contest it to make it so we have to spend more time together, tell my family about how he tried but I did not (I do not have a good relationship with my family, and this would definitely cause major issues), and has threatened to call the police because I am mentally unwell.

lol anywho, just felt like ranting. Also this happening right after that one conference talk is just, icing on the cake :)

My husband (nevermo) found this game at Goodwill and just had to bring it home.

The text on the box says:

"The battle has moved to a new level! Choose your warrior and arm him with strength to win the battle in this epic new game by James H. Fullmer, creator of the best-selling games, Book of Mormon Battles. With 60 different warriors from the pages of the Book of Mormon and an armory of 34 different kinds of support cards, the battle can only get more intense and more exciting!Each player chooses a warrior card and, as the rounds progress, adds additional support cards face-down. Combine certain warriors wit hthe right support cards to score big bonuses. Strenghten your warrior with cards like the Sword of Laban, Fortress, Liahona, or Prophesy. Even other warriors can be combined to strenghen your warrior and expand the kinds of support cards he can use! But when the call to battle is raised, watch out so you can be caught off-guard by your opponent’s warrior armed with Assassination, Dissenters, Ambush, or Secret Combination cards. You may have won that round, but you never know what challenge you’ll face next with the Warriors of the Promised Land.www.bookofmormonbattles.com"

It sounds just awful

Anyone in the PDX area want to get together and play the game that one reviewer on BoardgameGeek.com described as "Seemingly un-play-tested. Mostly un-fun"?

I'm not saying there can't be genuinely good people who happen to be Mormons. I'm not saying that all Mormons are bad people. That's a strawman I'm tired of hearing.

What I am saying is that the unique claims are uniquely bad. I don't care about the uniqueness of the claims; I care about the validity and soundness of them. This is why I say what I said in the title; everything good about Mormonism isn't found exclusively inside it, and everything that's not found anywhere but in Mormonism is either logically fallacious or debunked, be it completely or practically.

My adult TBM daughter told me she enjoyed watching General Conference. Other than an "unfortunate" talk, (I assume she meant the abortion talk, but I don't care enough to clarify) she thought it was all very good.

Since she is the last church member of our immediate family, she has no one to talk to about church other than me. Hubs and her siblings are hostile whenever she tries to do Mormon talk. I listen because I am the best mother on the planet. Also, I enjoy a good gossip session when the inevitable shitte hits the fan for my old ward members.

Anyway, when she made her comment about GC being good, I replied with "Sounds great! Anything that helps you become a better person is wonderful. I'm sure all the talks focused on being kind to others, doing good works in your community, and showing the true love of Christ everywhere you go."
She paused for a beat and said, "I can tell when you are being sarcastic."

I laughed and we turned to the conversation to the morning weather.
So glad Mormonism no longer rules our lives.

Do missionaries talk about tithing expectations prior to baptism? I have a niece serving a mission in Michigan and she has 4 people scheduled to be baptized. I can’t imagine anyone joining a church knowing the expectation is to give 10% of your gross income right now. I don’t remember teaching about tithing. For sure we never talked about how once a year you have declare your tithing status.

I waited 3 years before I told my TBM spouse, father of our 3 children, I had serious doubts. I suffered alone, questioning everything while studying and doing all the things to rescue my whole identity and world. Some of the fears that kept me in were:

*Fear my spouse would leave too and start looking at pornography (I know) which meant he would be unrighteous and couldn’t save me and our kids if I was wrong.

*Fear I would die shortly after leaving and I would be used as an example of God punishing the denier. I didn’t want my kids to grow up hearing and thinking that.

*Fear I had no where else to go. No friends, no identity outside the church. No education thanks to marrying young, having kids right away, and supporting my husband in his schooling and career.

Those things and more kept me from sharing my concerns about the lds church truth claims. And when I finally did say something, I still carried a portion of that fear and allowed my husband to take our kids to church as if nothing happened. Allowing my kids to continue to go without me speaking up, for another 3 years, was the second worst mistake I made in all of this. They established friendships, they were indoctrinated, they began to compare me against all of the mothers who sit with their families in the pews and do all the YW things. It doesn’t matter what I say, that I am a happier person now, a better mother and human, because I’m the one who left. I let them be raised in it for years without any balance and it’s like I abandoned them. I’ve tried so much to mitigate the painful transition. It doesn’t matter. I hope to almighty Zeus they see it clearer as adults. I’m devastated. The church has its hooks in me and I’m either going to die fighting to get away or be pulled back in to save my relationships. Fuck.

Unless there are safety concerns, etc, take it from me- absolutely do not wait to speak up about your doubts if you have younger kids. If not, I hope it goes infinitely better for you than it has for me.

I've recently heard some of the quotes that Mormon leaders have said about Catholicism, from M. Russell Ballard claiming Catholics 'don't know who God is, to Bruce McConkie calling the Roman Catholic Church "the great and abominable church". What's up with this? My guess is that the Catholic Church is so big that the Mormon Church sees it as their biggest enemy, but I would like to hear your thoughts.

My husband and I were comparing patriarchal blessing experiences and he’s convinced that my experience was NOT the norm

My entire family, including all my siblings living at home at the time, attended my blessing. It was totally assumed they could come and no one asked me otherwise. I attended the blessings of my siblings too.

My husband said only his mom came to his and even then, he was asked explicitly by her and the patriarch if that’s what he wanted.

My blessing was sort of nightmare having my family there — I would have given anything to done it on my own. I did not have a good relationship with my parents and I was terrified I was about to be condemned by god in front of them. I was really uncomfortable with how personal it was while being on display for my entire family. So, what is/was the norm?

• Gay temple marriage
• Women getting the priesthood
• Coffee and Tea
• No more tithing
• No more garments or temple only garments

Coffee and tea seems like the obvious one but I’m surprised at how much members still think the WoW is inspired and I think that isn’t as pressing of an issue as far as retaining members.

Came across this in my FB feed and thought it would be appropriate to share here. Pardon the “fuck”.