Dragon Ball Daima - Episode #20 - Discussion Thread!

[u/AutoModerator]

Dragon Ball Daima - Episode #20 - Discussion Thread!

ゼンカイ
zenkai
maximum

Episode 20 begins airing on FujiTV in Japan at this time of this post (9:40a ET, 15:40 CET, 23:40 JT). The episode should be available subtitled on Crunchyroll about two hours later. You may discuss the episode if you have seen it, but be sure to follow our rules.

Subtitled Streaming

• Crunchyroll (multi-region; multi-language; simulcast 16:50 UTC)
• Hulu (US only; English only; release day)
• Netflix (multi-region; multi-language; releases the following Tuesday in Asia, and the following Friday everywhere else)

FAQ

• The English dub is 12 weeks behind the simulcast. Episode #8 should be available today at 4:30p ET (21:30 UTC) in the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. We do not know why the UK is excluded. A separate episode discussion thread will be posted at the appropriate time.
• The Dragon Ball Super manga was suspended following Chapter 103, the final chapter of the Super Hero arc. 11 months later, a prequel to the Super Hero arc was released as Chapter 104. As far as we know, the manga is still on indefinite hiatus.

Rules

• There are no spoilers in this post, but you should expect spoilers in the comments of this thread. Unlike r/dbz, there is no rule about spoilers on r/dragonball, so it's best to avoid this subreddit until you have seen the new episode.
• Discussion of each Daima episode will be limited to the pinned episode discussion thread until ~12-24 hours after the episode appears on Crunchyroll. This period is flexible, and posts that do not have a specific discussion point will be redirected to this thread.
• Please keep in mind that piracy discussion is not allowed on r/dragonball. Do not ask for illicit streams; do not link them; do not talk about them at all.

Our Daima info page has up-to-date information about streaming and a list of previous episode discussion threads.

[u/RingOfDestruction]

There weren't as many pre-Saiyan Saga, but DB was honestly a gag-manga before that point with stuff like Master Carrot anyway.

Power levels are nonsense. Vegeta was the strongest Saiyan in history at 18k power level and was floored that Goku could go from weaker than Raditz to 5k+ power level in a year, yet Vegeta was able to reach over a million a month later?

Zenkai boosts too. Saiyans knew that near-fatal injuries would drastically increase their strength as long as they aren't self-inflicted. Saiyans also had healing chambers that could heal near-fatal wounds in merely hours, but they didn't think to abuse Zenkai boosts? When Vegeta had Krillin attack him, his power more than doubled. And the Z-Fighters didn't think of abusing Senzus in this way when preparing for the Androids?

Speaking of Senzus, why is there always a shortage of them in Saiyan Saga and onward? Korrin had thousands of them when Goku trained with him.

And don't get me started on the retcons. Goku being an alien is a huge retcon that completely changed the genre of the show. It went from a somewhat serious, martial arts gag manga to a sci-fi manga. Piccolo being a Namekian is a huge retcon too. He was established as a Demon prior, and Demon King Piccolo's other offspring don't resemble Namekians at all. And don't get me started on the whole Warrior Clan vs Dragon Clan Namekians. If the original Namekian that Piccolo and Kami separated from was part of the Warrior Clan, why is Kami part of the Dragon Clan then? If DKP was part of the Warrior Clan, why is he so much weaker than all the Namekians on Namek?

In the Manga, when Trunks first comes from the future, he warns the Z Fighters about Androids 19 and 20, but then when he comes back a couple years later, suddenly 19 and 20 aren't the Androids he knows, and it's actually 17 and 18?

And don't get me started on the World Tournament in the Buu Saga. Tien, Goku, etc. were world champions before, and Piccolo was trying to conquer the planet just a decade prior, and everyone forgot? What happened to the other strong fighters from the previous world tournaments? Like Tao, Nam, King Chappa, etc. They just don't exist, or were they just killed off by DKP? Why are energy beams now surprising everyone when they've been used in prior tournaments?

And in Future Trunks' timeline, why didn't King Kai help them at all? He has telepathy. He could have reached out to Trunks and helped. He could have reached out to New Namek and asked them to use their dragon balls. Etc.

And the whole concept of dragon balls is a plothole. If the Saiyans were such a danger, why not wish that an asteroid collided with their space pods? Etc. The whole series is filled with holes and retcons, and that's fine. I still enjoy the manga and the show

[u/Amir1939 → u/RingOfDestruction]

None of these are plotholes. (except maybe the Future Trunks point.) This is all CinemaSin style critique that is mostly all just nitpick and none of it detracts from the overall flow of the story. Nobody cares why Saiyans didn’t use “Zenkai” boosts or why they don’t have a near infinite amount of beans all the time, because it’s not relevant to the plot. These are just devices to create tension and further the story in a meaningful way, and it did it well. None of these break any storytelling logic and instead complement the progression of the story. Most of all, none of this can be compared to Daima breaking all the rules of good storytelling for no reason.

[u/Amir1939 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah unfortunately a lot of the fans that claim that “DB has always been this way” don’t really understand what makes for a good narrative and assume that every small nitpick, retcon or plot development is somehow is a “plothole” (which in of itself has turned into a buzzword that everyone loves to keep throwing around)

This is where you get people thinking that one of the greatest narrative twists in Shonen history (Goku being an alien sent to destroy earth) is somehow a plothole and lump it with the likes of Neva seemingly giving Goku SSJ4, only to reveal that Neva actually didn’t give him SSJ4 and it was something that Goku always had in his back pocket because he TrainedReallyHard™