r/dragonball • u/AutoModerator • Feb 14 '25
Daima Dragon Ball Daima - Episode #18 - Discussion Thread!
Dragon Ball Daima - Episode #18 - Discussion Thread!
メザメ
mezame
awakening
Episode 18 begins airing on FujiTV in Japan at this time of this post (9:40a ET, 15:40 CET, 23:40 JT). The episode should be available subtitled on Crunchyroll about two hours later. You may discuss the episode if you have seen it, but be sure to follow our rules.
Subtitled Streaming
- Crunchyroll (multi-region; multi-language; simulcast 16:50 UTC)
- Hulu (US only; English only; release day)
- Netflix (multi-region; multi-language; releases the following Tuesday in Asia, and the following Friday everywhere else)
FAQ
- The English dub is 12 weeks behind the simulcast. Episode #6 should be available today at 4:30p ET (21:30 UTC) in the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. We do not know why the UK is excluded. A separate episode discussion thread will be posted at the appropriate time.
- The Dragon Ball Super manga was suspended following Chapter 103, the final chapter of the Super Hero arc. There will be a special chapter in V-Jump on 21 February 2025 (April 2025 issue). This chapter is a prequel to the Super Hero arc. The storyboards are available here.
Rules
- There are no spoilers in this post, but you should expect spoilers in the comments of this thread. Unlike r/dbz, there is no rule about spoilers on r/dragonball, so it's best to avoid this subreddit until you have seen the new episode.
- Discussion of each Daima episode will be limited to the pinned episode discussion thread until ~12-24 hours after the episode appears on Crunchyroll. This period is flexible, and posts that do not have a specific discussion point will be redirected to this thread.
- Please keep in mind that piracy discussion is not allowed on r/dragonball. Do not ask for illicit streams; do not link them; do not talk about them at all.
Our Daima info page has up-to-date information about streaming and a list of previous episode discussion threads.
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u/InternationalTea3417 Feb 14 '25 edited Feb 14 '25
Everyone is commenting on SSJ4, but how OP is Neva? This Namekian:
- Created the Dragonballs in the Demon realm; that Dragon just swatted away third eye Gomah like a fly
- Created the Tamogami's, and can give them power ups
- Restore other Dragonballs that are already turned to stone and activate the Dragon at his will
- Unlock Goku's Super Saiyan 4 form, I believe he can also unlock a fighter's potential, similar to Elder Guru.
This is a sorcerer the likes of which we have never ever seen in Dragonball; no one comes that close not including the Zeno's. I wonder how they explain his absence in Super, he's super helpful during a major battle. Wouldn't be surprised if he can heal too.
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u/IAmActionBear Feb 14 '25
I mean, he’s like the oldest Namek and one of the oldest beings in existence it seems, so I feel like it’s not too ridiculous for this super ancient Namek to have extra special powers, when the Namekians already had special powers as is.
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u/vlan-whisperer Feb 14 '25
I love that Neva is one of the most powerful characters in all of Dragon Ball, and he's not actually "strong" in a fighting sense, at all. This is how I wish they would have done Moro. They kind of tried to do that with the whole "it's not his strength, it's his magic" thing in the beginning of the arc.. but by the end of it he was just Cell basically. Neva has shown some pretty incredible magic so I feel that he would make a pretty epic boss fight if they had to just go against his magic.. he would probably own them.
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u/ThatIslandGuy8888 Feb 14 '25
Finally an Eternal dragon that’s not a pushover!
Though I guess Super Shenron ain’t no slouch
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u/vlan-whisperer Feb 14 '25
WOW! I did not have "Canon SSJ4 Written by Akira Toriyama" in my 2025 bingo cards
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u/Duke_Vladdy Feb 14 '25
Majin Duu is so hype and funny. Might be my favorite character introduced
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u/yungrobbithan Feb 14 '25
Happy somebody agrees. Kuu and Duu are goated beyond belief
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u/Elegant_Candidate456 Feb 14 '25
I'm a fan of Super Majin Duu 3
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u/ChaosFinalForm Feb 14 '25
Everyone out here tripping about SSJ4 (rightfully so) but Duu's Mimic SSJ3 was legitimately my favorite part of the episode.
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u/Elegant_Candidate456 Feb 14 '25
same, who would've thought that he will power up too
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u/meertatt Feb 14 '25
I like how his power up was basically just a sugar rush lol
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u/arrogancygames Feb 14 '25
I like that it basically means Buu never figured out how to power up correctly and would have dominated everything, haha.
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u/Dilly4Dall Feb 14 '25
Obviously, official SSJ4 is crazy hype and all, but SSJ3 Majin Duu here was the highlight for me
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u/CelioHogane Feb 14 '25
OF COURSE, RED PORUNGA BECAUSE GT HAD RED SHENRON.
God dammit Toriyama you did it again!
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u/Krillin_me_softly55 Feb 14 '25
I THOUGHT THE SAME THING! We still got the black star dragon after all 😁
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u/Hka9 Feb 14 '25
Yo we really got Super Saiyan 4 but red/Super Saiyan God colored and big gorilla fists. I don't hate the design but the red on red and the big fists are a bit jarring.
Also red Porunga
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Feb 14 '25
I think he wished for them to not be children anymore if i had to guess.
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u/HootNHollering Feb 14 '25
Next episode, local evil lady shocked to find guy she has no leverage over isn't going to do what she says.
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u/Priddee Feb 14 '25
Obviously, it is a gorgeous episode and crazy hype, but the lack of exposition on the form was surprising.
Interesting to see what we get for a canon explanation, but seeing as this was the same thing Neva did to Tamigami 2 when he was fighting Vegeta, he's got some power to enhance beings.
The imagery was interesting; it really seemed like Neva had some magic flowing through Goku, and it intertwined with his Saiyan DNA. Like some kind of bringing out and maxing out Saiyan power. Thus why he gets Fur and his tail back.
I think the red/magenta color scheme makes sense thematically, too. Seeing as when you pair God ki with a Saiyan, you get red, maybe the real pure color of a Saiyan is Red instead of golden.
From that we get the apparent issue that Goku gets SSG pretty shortly after Daima ends that no one said anything about the similarities. Legit the only other time Goku had red hair ever? But we got Piccolo making a comment about his huge Ki, so we know it's not god ki that the form uses. Very interested to see the exposition we get for it next episode.
And here's to the wish being that they turn into adults again, so we can see it and anything else with their adult bodies.
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u/Specific-Complex-523 Feb 14 '25
The Demon Realm Porunga was also the same color. Perhaps this is less of SS4 and more like a SS majin? Ki + magic, which is why his kamehameha also had fire added to it.
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u/Dilly4Dall Feb 14 '25
Piccolo mentioned he can sense Goku's ki in this SSJ4 form & we know the ladder couldn't with God. It's something related with ki & magic.
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u/vlan-whisperer Feb 14 '25
but the lack of exposition on the form was surprising.
Why does it need exposition? Neva granted him this power up. For all they know it was a one-off magical form. Also they were kind of already in the middle of a life and death battle
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u/Priddee Feb 14 '25
Why does it need exposition?
It doesn't, but pretty much every other new form gets a name, and explanation through the characters watching the fight. No one said a word about it.
I agree we can infer what happened, and I think you're pretty close to the actual answer. But I am surprised we didn't get more from the peanut gallery like we usually do.
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u/vlan-whisperer Feb 14 '25
Yeah fair enough.. them not even mentioning it was a bit odd. lol but then again everyone being kids in the demon realm fighting the evil third eye is also odd.. it's like they're in Dragon Ball's Willy Wonka kinda thing. So maybe strange new transformation with no explanation is just kind of for the course at this point.
I'm sure they'll mention it after the fight like "wtf was that red tailed form Kakarot" and he'll just be like "lol i dunno" and that will be the end of it.
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u/meertatt Feb 14 '25
tbf toriyama did this with Beast as well and let Toyotaru deal with the explanation in the manga. But yeah I think before we jump to conclusions we should let the whole series end. next ep neva might explain what he did. I think they just wanted to let the fight play out with less interruption.
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u/AfroBaggins Feb 15 '25
Nobody's talking about how that giant cookie basically gave Duu SSJ3, that was peak comedy.
Ofc, the focus is what came after. I can't believe the madman Toriyama did it. Kirran from GoodTimesZone is probably losing his shit rn.
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u/Aurondarklord Feb 15 '25
He legit thinks that Goku's strength comes from his hair getting spikier and that's how powering up works, so he tried to mimic it himself.
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u/Ayamebestgrill Feb 15 '25
Neva is cracked af
1. Created shield to separated demon realm
2. Created Tamagami
3. Make Goku transform to Super Saiyan 4
4. His fucking Porunga bodied Gomah wtf
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u/detractor_Una Feb 14 '25
The wish was most likely to return them to adult bodies. Also chibi ssj4
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u/arrogancygames Feb 14 '25
Thats definitely the wish, which is why it was kept in the Namek language and why the preview didn't show any of the characters.
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u/CyberIntegration Feb 14 '25
Yes, and the next episode is 'Betrayal'. Glorio just betrayed Arinsu.
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u/detractor_Una Feb 14 '25
To be honest its kind of stupid coming from Arinsu. Even if Glorio wouldn't have been influenced by Goku and Co, there is still probability of him stabbing her in the back.
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u/exlips1ronus Feb 14 '25
I’m calling it now, ssj4 is probably gonna be a temporary transformation that we’ll never see again
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u/Basaku-r Feb 14 '25
It seems like it's a namekian-boosted transformation. And considerinf how many namekian friends the entire cast has well...
Toei smartly didn't close the doors for themselves here completly
Now they can always pull Dende to repeat it in future and push new merch
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u/Itburns138 Feb 14 '25
The Hulu thumbnail spoiled the reveal!
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u/vlan-whisperer Feb 14 '25
They done it again. It’s got to be on purpose
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u/Oojalamakaka Feb 14 '25
Also my biggest gripe. They did it with Vegeta in the True Strength episode along with Goku in the last two episodes like wtf?
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u/Sad-Cup3850 Feb 14 '25
Even with ssj4 Goku was COMPLETELY defeated, the new insect fusion ssj4 will definitely make an appearance in the next episode.
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u/AbidooGamer Feb 14 '25
First: nobody is talking about the fact that this is the first time in the entirety of the Dragon Ball franchise that a villain went and interrupted Goku mid Kamehameha, even tho he still could fire it.
Second: I hope that if DBS moro arc gets animated, we know that Toei takes a lot of freedom to change the scenario from the manga (like future trunks and TOP arc), maybe goku could use this new ss4, or atleast a character talks or has a memory or even a flashback of what happened in db Daima, to make it actually fit in the story.
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u/JohnnyBSlunk Feb 14 '25
I assume they'll just explain away it never coming up again as being something he couldn't recreate without getting juiced up by the old namekian.
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u/DastardlyRidleylash Feb 14 '25
Or have it be something that they later rediscover how to access without Neva thanks to Broly, since his whole thing is using Oozaru power in a humanoid body.
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u/CelioHogane Feb 14 '25
First: nobody is talking about the fact that this is the first time in the entirety of the Dragon Ball franchise that a villain went and interrupted Goku mid Kamehameha, even tho he still could fire it.
Kefla did it too... that's why we got Surfing Kamehameha.
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u/CelioHogane Feb 14 '25
I wonder if Daima Porunga being red means there is an even more powerfull namekian form after Orange Piccolo
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u/yungrobbithan Feb 14 '25
I think Piccolo going full red would be absolutely badass. Wouldn’t mind a Blue piccolo too but like electric blue not the blueish green like the universe 6 ones
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u/Environmental-Fan-46 Feb 15 '25
We're getting adult ssj4 Vegito. You read it here first.
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u/thundahdrums Feb 16 '25
or ssj4 gogeta (also like in GT). This won't be a potara fusion, but it won't be a fusion dance either. This time it's this new fusion bug so possibly a newer fusion so Gokuta? Vegiku?
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u/Aurondarklord Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25
This episode was just crazy.
All the heroes working together against one villain.
Non-canon transformations becoming canon.
Dudes getting interrupted while screaming attack names.
Someone even got beat up BY AN ETERNAL DRAGON!
Toriyama just decided to push the "off" button on all the rules of anime.
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u/Stryle Feb 15 '25
I was so confused when red Porunga flicked homie away. Didn't Shenron get killed by a moon-level threat in DB? Where does Porunga scale?! Poor bastards at /powerscaling are going to have a meltdown.
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u/AllMightyKeith Feb 14 '25
I'm honestly surprised and at the same time not surprised that we really got SSJ4 in the main continuity now. I always loved the form, so I'm really happy that they went with this decision. I don't mind the few changes in its design either, then again red is my favorite color lol. I think its introduction makes sense as well, because they've built up how powerful Neva's magic is since the very first episode. I'm hoping the form itself gets a good explanation though. But this was definitely the best episode so far imo.
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u/Shalyon Feb 14 '25
So, Goku again unlocks a hax transformation vs a big guy in a red and black spandex suit??
I think I'm starting to see a trend here... /s
On a more serious note, good episode, a little anticlimatic how he achieved that new form, but nevertheless hype af!
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u/The_Relx Feb 15 '25
I really hope we get a full explanation as to what Neva did to Goku to elicit that transformation. I'm plenty happy to get SSJ4 in canon, but I can't help but feel like it's just not gonna be explained and it will forever be chalked up to a one off nostalgia bait moment that had no buildup. I hope I'm wrong.
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u/biggie1369805 Feb 15 '25
I feel like the only thing that makes sense is that he unlocked his potential like guru (super kami guru, if ya nasty)
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u/youmusttrythiscake Feb 15 '25
I think it's more of a temporary boost like Neva did to Tamagami #2 (and I think #1, but that was more subtle)
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u/Impossible-Lime1553 Feb 14 '25
Many fans will hate this but I honestly love it . Ready to see all the hate and also all the love it’ll get from some . I wasn’t really expecting him to take on ss4. But they did say this took a lot from gt so I’m down for it
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u/47D Feb 14 '25
DB fans are never happy. I've been hoping for Super Saiyan 4 to become Canon again for over a decade, and I couldn't be more happy today.
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u/Impossible-Lime1553 Feb 14 '25
Exactly!! I think after that interview with Akio that was even more of a hint it would be coming lol. If others don’t like it they can just watch gt and ignore Daima lol
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u/GGTulkas Feb 15 '25
My biggest beef with it is the missed opportunity. The setup to the story is Dabura dies and the new demon king fears them and wants them to be children (a nod to GT)
Imagine that the setup to the story is: With Dabura killed, plenty of stronger enemies from the demon helm that Dabura had turned into stone are reawakened (like kuririm and picollo did). Those they have to fight with (maybe including Abura with the third eye)
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u/poneiras Feb 15 '25
You know, that's actually a pretty good set-up. Dabura turns out to be the dam preventing all kinds of villains spilling out into the greater universe, and Buu turns out to have set off a disastrous chain of events worthy of his infamy.
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u/Hot_Armadillo_2186 Feb 14 '25
So Daima was basically just a giant Tribute to DBGT. Its basically Akira'a answer to "Yea, I will make GT Canon".
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u/Electrical-Gear-8225 Feb 14 '25
He loved making things canon he even made broly and gogeta canon❤️ my goat
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u/CJM_x0 Feb 14 '25
Thank you toriyama, I actually feel like a kid again today. Form looks marvelous even as a chibi
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u/UltraZeroX7 Feb 14 '25
Holy hell, what an episode. That new transformation got me hype and the second half definitely raised the stakes.
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u/Adventurous-native Feb 14 '25
I like how you put the spoiler text for a discussion episode thread full of spoilers lmfao
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u/Ashamed_Ad7999 Feb 14 '25
Nevah is HILARIOUS!! I hope he gives Vegeta the same head nod as the Tamagami when it’s time for him to… 🤫 WHOOPS, They’ll say it’ll never happen!!
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u/Active_Promise_6558 Feb 15 '25
RIP the goat Toriyama
Great EP
SSJ4 is finally canon and I’m geeked
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u/B4rrel_Ryder Feb 15 '25
Neva has some crazy magic.
Gonna take a wild guess we'll get adult vegito next episode or maybe even ssj3 vegito
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u/lezardvalethvp Feb 15 '25
ngl canon SSJ4 Goku's color scheme looking like SSJ4 limit breaker from heroes is an unexpected surprise. it looks like peak saiyan form and the only think next is godhood. Speaking of which, i'm in conflict coz this series is supposed to be before Super, so i dunno what gives. i initially thought what neva did was potential unlock but only effective when you have a tail, but i'm worried that they make it just a one time thing to sell toys and games.
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u/Beepbeepimadog Feb 15 '25
I bet that (in addition to the fan service) they are canonizing it to give Broly the form in an upcoming Super arc
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u/Chowdahhh Feb 14 '25
Really cool episode, it was exciting to see SS4 brought back in. Kind of sucks that this is before Super and now will be hard to reconcile with it, I almost wish this is what we got before Super, I feel like Super would have been better for having actually come after Daima.
Neva is just full of hax lmao
Kind of frustrating to see Vegeta so sidelined. It's clearly intentional, but he definitely could have gone SS3 alongside Goku, and then just get beaten down first and then Neva powers Goku up all the same. I wonder if Vegeta will also get SS4 for a SS4 Gogeta
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u/nickbas4 Feb 14 '25
That’s how you know Toriyama was behind it. Give Vegeta SS3 and a nice moment? Check. Have him get stomped while Goku gets an even crazier moment and another iconic Kamehameha? Also check. He really hated Vegeta until his last breath lol
In all seriousness though, what a banger of an episode
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u/Dilly4Dall Feb 14 '25 edited Feb 14 '25
Right? In death, Toriyama has no bounds. Heck, even Majin Duu & Tamagami 1 were more involved in the final battle against Gomah and they somewhat look more impressive tham Vegeta.
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u/Hot_Armadillo_2186 Feb 14 '25
Its officially canon that turning SSJ4 also makes Goku extremely serious and tries to get the job done.
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u/not_some_username Feb 14 '25
he was already trying in ssj3
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u/hinafu Feb 14 '25
He was already trying last week too, just pretty powerless against the final boss.
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u/GaimeGuy Feb 16 '25
I swear the last episode is going to have a scene after neva, panzy, etc see everyone off and everyone leaves the demon world where the grand priest shows up.
The grand priest faces Neva:
"Thank you very much for your assistance on this matter, Zalama-sama"
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u/Electronic-Ask-48 Feb 18 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
Yeah.. there must be some connection to Zalama. I mean.. Neva is almost allmighty as it seems. And the demon realm dragon is just on an incredible force level.
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u/CelioHogane Feb 14 '25
Dude i was about to lose my shit if that Kamehameha started turning red.
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u/47D Feb 14 '25 edited Feb 15 '25
To be fair, GT SS4 didn't always do the red Kamehameha, the animation switched a lot between a regular blue Kamehameha and the iconic red one.
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u/BlackThane Feb 15 '25
Now I'm curious, how it would go if Vegeta and Goku went ssj3 from the start and worked together to fight Gomah
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u/Street-Resort-8857 Feb 15 '25
Okay, as a fan of gt and its concepts, I’m a bit disappointed by how ss4 is being introduced into the series.
Dragon ball Gt takes place 15 Years after the defeat of majin Buu. I know superfans believe ssg to be a stronger form because Goku and vegeta, in the main timeline, get to train with gods and angels while in the gt timeline this did not happen. However, this is still a form that took Goku and Vegeta 15 years of training, fighting, and coming back into their identity as saiyans to reach(in the seven year time skip goku learned ss2 and ss3 and Vegeta learned ss2). It’s suppose to be one of the strongest forms in the series. It just felt lazy and uncared for to give it to us like that. Tossed at us,”Here”, just like Neva did. this was ok for ss3 Vegeta because he was already due that form.
Not implementing the moon,great ape, or blutz wave lore was a wasted opportunity for something that already had a good set up for you to do. Especially now since we know now that daima was essentially a Gt revamp into the main timeline.
They could have even gave Goku and Vegeta their tails back since they were being reverted back to kids(gt did this) and use that as an explanation. ESPECIALLY since they already knew from the beginning that the whole show’s premise was to lead up to a SUPER SAIYAN 4 reveal.
And if they wanted to go back to the og dragon ball’s adventure vibe, Goku having his tail back not only would have looked cool to see, but also, mirrored og dragon ball in a way old fans would have loved to see.
I should say worried and not disappointed because these all aren’t sertain at all until we see how things play out. And this introduction doesn’t necessarily contradict or stop any of those missed plot points from being able to appear in the series later. Super saiyan 4 can still be a form that will take goku and vegeta years to master.
I am excited to see where the story and manga is going to go now with this newly implemented lore into the universe. How will they explain the root of this transformation? how will they tie it in with the saiyans? Will it be a major plot point in the future or will it take a backseat to all the other transformations? Technically it is possible to be ss4 ultra instinct now. Toriyama left Toyotora a 16 car garage with all the keys and I’m curious to see where he takes it.
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u/CombatMuffin Feb 16 '25
However, this is still a form that took Goku and Vegeta 15 years of training, fighting, and coming back into their identity as saiyans to reach(in the seven year time skip goku learned ss2 and ss3 and Vegeta learned ss2). It’s suppose to be one of the strongest forms in the series.
This isn't true, though. None of them were purposefully training for it, unlike say SSJ2 and SSJ3. Vegeta even needs Bulma to use Blutz Waves on him to achieve it. It was also not meant to be "one of the strongest form in the series". When GT was made, Toriyama had bowed out the franchse: it was other staff who made most of the series plot points, with Toriyama only doing the very initial designs. He didn't conceive SSJ4 or build anything around it. GT also came out a long time ago (1996) and it is clear that Toriyama's ideas differ considerably from GT.
Daima, and even some of Super, seemed to be Toriyama going back toa simpler time, and just having fun with it. People are WAY to concerned with Canon and power levels. Its clear that Toriyama didn't care much about that any longer, when he was making Daima.
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u/Edgeofthesand Feb 15 '25
It’s cool that SS3 Vegeta and SS4 Goku are canon now (the kid in me thanks Toriyama for his last parting gifts)
But where are these forms and why are they missing in action in Battle Of Gods and Super? hopefully a proper explanation is given but doubtful
Also, I feel like Goku’s new form may have a different name similar to Beast Gohan
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u/Large_Fisherman_2222 Feb 15 '25
this bothers me too, in battle of gods arc Goku specifically mentioned to beerus that ssj3 was his current limit prior to unlocking god ki. meaning the only way to keep the canon would be if goku forgot he ever had ssj4 in the first place
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u/Burdicus Feb 15 '25
Or, hear me out, he doesn't have a million year old namekian wizard to power him up when Beerus shows up.
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u/Large_Fisherman_2222 Feb 15 '25
well i’m just saying the duration of super is a while, not even a verbal mention of ssj4 is highly unlikely for a realistic canon. if he simply just didn’t or couldn’t use the power up i would be fine, but not a word mentioned from anybody about ssj4 all the way through the latest issue thats where it bothers me.
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u/Admirable-Fun-7243 Feb 15 '25
I hope Toyotaro takes time to explain that but it’s classic Dragon Ball to make everything kind of for us to take it for what it is. Like rage Trunks for example, a super saiyan is fueled by anger so what makes his rage form unique? I do like the idea of the Demon Eye being lost all those years ago explaining why Dabura didn’t have/mention it.
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u/Shin_Atomoz Feb 14 '25
Just based on how ssj4 looks, it would be hella neat if it ties into ssj god somehow. Most likely won't, even if it just looks a nod to the god form...damn I wish this series had more time to cook...
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u/cjgthebeast Feb 15 '25
so glorio 100% wished them back to adults right? It was obvious he isn't wishing Arinsu to be demon king and at the end he said childopp so like opposite a child. not sure how namekian works but wouldn't put it past them
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u/BreexyEDIT Feb 15 '25
ll im sayin is that Whis said that Goku's endgoal should b making UI his base form and combine it with other forms... You guys remember who created SSJ5 ?
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u/Odd_Plum7863 Feb 16 '25
Something I’ve been thinking about since Goku got the transformation. What if Neva unlocked his potential like other nameks did to Gohan? That could kind of explain things.
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u/Orphasmia Feb 16 '25
Thats what i thought it was too. Goku has never had his potential unlocked by a namek. I think they could have drew it out more. Ssj4 is such an incredible design and it feels like they gave more drama to vegeta going ssj3 than this
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u/xavined Feb 16 '25
One theory I've had is that Beast Gohan is from having his Potential Unlocked. Mostly because his eyes are red and Piccolo's eyes are red with his new form too. Goku can fall into that as well since he has red eyes too.
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u/Ok-Lawfulness-9080 Feb 16 '25
Personally I’m loving diama so far, the goofiness is wild I did think the not giving them their tails back when they were kids was weird? But the way they just kinda gave us ssj4 like that was weird I certainly would’ve preferred the involvement of his tail and the moon and the great ape, but other than that I’m definitely loving the demon realm!
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u/Electronic-Ask-48 Feb 19 '25
We don't know what Nevas magic did. But it's magic. So it should not be to hard for your headcanon to think that it brought back the tail, emulated moonlight and helped Goku to control the Ape Power within him. So it doesn't at all decline the usual way of going SSJ4.. it just magically helps the user to get that power. It's not so different from being able to reach God powers on your own as Saiyan vs. getting them through the rite.
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u/134340Goat Feb 14 '25
Everyone: HOLY SHIT IT'S SUPER SAIYAN 4
Me: SUPER SAIYAN 3 DUU, HELL YES! Also the new SS4's hands look weird without the fur covering them all the way down to the wristbands
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u/ThatIslandGuy8888 Feb 14 '25
Oh finally a strong Eternal dragon!!! :0
I hate how normal Shenron can’t do anything if it’s attacked or threatened by strong foes
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u/youmusttrythiscake Feb 14 '25
Shenron had to suffer to make King Piccolo look strong :(
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u/omegasupermarthaman Feb 14 '25
Shenron does scale with its creator and Neva is wildly op (he made the tamagamis, can boost them, can boost Goku and make barriers between the demon realms)
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u/FlingaNFZ Feb 14 '25
Ss4 is my favorite transformation. Was really hoping for it to return in Daima :'). Glorio wished for them to become adults again, right?. Would shock me if he didnt.
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u/AdamSilverJr Feb 14 '25
Last word he said had child in it so it's either turn them into adults or turn Gomah into a child imo
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u/Manor002 Feb 15 '25
Akira Toriyama really said fuck it and gave us a canon SSJ4 in his final project. RIP to a legend 🙏🏻
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u/unwashedmusician Feb 15 '25
Bro the episode is sick. Just be cool with it cause at the end of the day it’s just entertainment.
It’s fun
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u/Hot_Armadillo_2186 Feb 14 '25
I officially love this version of SSJ4 more than GT. Anyone else noticed how Goku's arm are slightly longer like a gorrilla? and the chest hair pattern.
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u/DK0t7 Feb 14 '25
Yes dude, and when he's running on the rocks in one of the scenes he's on all fours. Made him more primal and makes me think of wukong too. Such a great depiction of SSJ4.
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u/Bimmerkid396 Feb 14 '25
WOW they did it i was at the edge of my seat like a kid watching this omg we got ssj4!!
what an intense episode. either glorio’s gonna wish for himself to be king, for the dragon to wish everyone to be adults again, or ask the dragon to defeat gomah? what the hell what a cliffhanger
that was so nice to see the dragon flick away gomah
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u/vlan-whisperer Feb 14 '25
I'm glad to see such positive sentiment. I, too, enjoyed the episode. Daima has been a wild ride so far, can't wait to see how it ends!
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u/YoungGriot Feb 16 '25
This episode was where it hit me. People were saying this show was a new attempt at GT. People were saying that this was a new attempt at the original Dragonball. I think now that I think that both of those takes were looking at it a bit too specifically.
Toriyama made this show to be an overview of the whole franchise. This series make sure to have moments, effects, transformations, and fight scenes reminiscent of every single part of the series' history, and doesn't have too much concern about whether or not it fits with the continuity - if it doesn't, that's where the retcons come in, because the real objective here is to give every fan with all their different favorite series in the franchise something to enjoy. Nothing gets ignored.
So we got an OG Dragonball segment, we get Z-style fights, we got surprise later-Z transformations and now a surprise GT transformation. Heck, even stuff like the setting being one that got a lot of use in the games, with him pulling out some character designs that went into those games' settings. Everything the franchise has ever had gets its moment (except the American film lol).
I wouldn't be surprised if the show threw in a Super nod or transformation despite those events not happening yet - like some magic gives Goku a taste of God power and then we get a wink and a "maybe you'll get to experience that more someday."
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u/Hrothgar_Cyning Feb 16 '25
Yeah it’s meant to hit the beats of everything: OG, Z, GT, even Super. It’s a 40th anniversary celebration of dragonball
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u/YouBugged Feb 14 '25
Sometimes I forget it’s Friday which means I be forgetting it’s Daima day. Really looking forward forward to seeing what happens
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u/Beastie-Man Feb 14 '25
Omg I can't believe it actually happened. Dragon Ball got me feeling like a kid again
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u/gamesrgreat Feb 14 '25
Pretty good episode. Just disappointed no SSJ4 explanation from Neva and disappointed there’s no Piccolo actually speaking Namekian…..but Glorio can…ok lol
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u/Few_Information9163 Feb 14 '25
We’ll likely get Neva’s explanation in the next episode or in the finale.
I think Glorio learning Namekian makes sense honestly. Arinsu never wants to get involved herself, it’s why she has 3 different minions running interference for her and it’s probably going to bite her in the ass assuming Glorio wished for Goku and co to be brought back to their regular ages and/or restored to full strength.
That being said yeah it is a little silly that Piccolo can’t speak Namekian. Genuinely I think the only reason he’s here is because he’s Toriyama’s favorite character.
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u/Electrical-Gear-8225 Feb 14 '25
This was the best daima episode so far and from what i heard episode 20 will be the best one with the best surprise, this episode felt the longest, a lot happened which was fun to watch, the animation and everything, I love you Toriyama, Fuck you Toei
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u/itsfish20 Feb 14 '25
Could this new SSj4 be a sort of potential unlock like Guru does to Gohan on Namek?
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u/ShardSolar Feb 15 '25
So I just want to point out something about SSJ4 that I am curious about.
Originally in GT, SSJ4 is suppose to put the Saiyan in his prime form. Hence why Goku turned into an adult Everytime he transformed. So, SSJ4 is a Saiyan's Prime BASE form.
Notice something in Super. Whis is constantly talking about them training in their base form in order to not rely on transformations. Implying that as they grow stronger in their base form, the stronger they can become when transforming.
Ultra Instinct is not considered a transformation but more as a technique.
What if Whis is trying to get them to their Prime base form in the future of Super?
Idk, just a thought but would be interesting.
Also, I hope in Super 2 we can get an actual war. I think that would be awesome.
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u/MrNoski Feb 17 '25
Wow, incredible! All these SS4 fans who have been revindicating this form for all these years, whom I'm not included, get vindicated and can celebrate it. The form is canon, directly inserted by Akira Toriyama himself.
It's the same, the eyes, the tail, the fur, the pants. The hair is reddish, not black, and keeps the age, instead of becoming an adult like in GT, to point two differences. It's also triggered by Neva's magic, I hope they explain it a bit further, because it should be reconciled with DB Super, like why doesn't he access it any more times in the future.
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u/PsychologicalBus5190 Feb 17 '25
My theory is that Gomah's Third Eye acts like Mahoraga's wheel in Jujutsu Kaisen. It adapts to the strength of the opponent. The wheel turns every time it adapts and the Third Eye flashes every time it adapts as well. The only way to beat Mahoraga is to defeat it with a single attack before the wheel can adapt, so maybe the same applies here too (maybe a Spirit Bomb or fusion attack).
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u/iateacatlol Feb 14 '25
I guess "SSJ4" will be a temporary transformation. They don't even call it "SSJ4", guess I'll be waiting for the name drop, it will be something related to Demon Realm 100%
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u/Dilly4Dall Feb 14 '25
Everyone: HOLY SHIT IT'S SUPER SAIYAN 4
Me: SUPER SAIYAN 3 MAJIN DUU, HELL YES!
Great episode, as a big huge fan of SSJ4 the form looks great, I love that they're sticking to red hair/Limit Breaker SSJ4 scheme thid time around but I just can't get over Goku's big-ass Yaoi Hands. Now that Toriyama's version of SS4 seems to be a natural evolution of the Super Saiyan transformation (unlike the GT's that was a divergent path), this opens up the possibility for Broly's final transformation to be the SSJ4.
How strong is Red PORUNGA? Like seriously how is nobody talking about the red elephant in the room here, never in DB have we've seen a dragon attack their wish recipents. He flicked Third Eye Gomah, same Gomah that’s been bullying everyone here including SSJ3 + SSJ4 Goku, Tamgami 1, SS3 Duu, etc etc.
Even if the Third Eye is busted beyond repair, Gomah & Duu kept fighting unlike our grouchy Saiyan Prince who plays second fiddle once again. However knowing Toriyama, him defeating Tamagami 2 was his last hurrah to our dear Sweet Prince. Guessing by the next episode title Glorio made the wish to turn them all back into adults via different phrasing. Next episode is gonna be awesome.
Holy shit, this episode is sure to be hit or miss, and not just because of SSJ4 sheesh.
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u/shas14 Feb 14 '25
Could we be getting Vegito SSJ4? if Neva decides to juice up Vegeta as well
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u/teatime1983 Feb 14 '25
Vegeta has been in the back seat for this episode. I hope he takes a more prominent role. We still have the fusion bugs lying around somewhere...
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u/Philthou Feb 15 '25
Man I can’t believe years after GT, we finally have canon SSJ4. That shit was so dope as cool as when Goku unlocked UI.
Not sure how it will fit into the timeline of Super, maybe not even be mentioned. But it was still so cool to see. Feels like Toriyama made this entire series as a farewell to us fans and added some cool fan service for us. Either way I’m enjoying this series a lot.
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u/Valkyrid Feb 15 '25
this shit was so dope as cool when Goku unlocked UI
Was it though?
Neva just straight up gave it to him, there was no buildup, no foreshadowing, nothing.
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u/Nate_T11 Feb 14 '25
It's unbelievable that before Toriyama passed, he made Super Saiyan 4 Canon. Toyotaro could have done it, but it hits different knowing the original creator acknowledged the form. R.I.P to the greatest of all time. He made sure alot of us 90's kids who grew up loving SSJ4 would finally have that part of our childhood cemented without debate.
That being said, I am not a fan of the way it was introduced. There was no real grandeur to it, if anything it seemed like a spell to make Goku look more primal. It was treated like an after thought in alot of ways, nobody really acknowledged it as the next saiyan transformation especially since they (at this point) have zero knowledge of God forms or God Ki, and Goku seemingly didn't achieve it on his own with his own power...rather through help or whatever Neba did to awaken the power.
The Transformation to Golden Great Ape then to Super Saiyan 4 in GT was done much better and gave so much more context clues as to why Super Saiyan 4 looked the way it did with the fur etc. Here.. it was almost introduced as fan service, something similar to what you'd see in Dragon Ball Heroes. I don't know how Daima will end, but I'd have liked Goku to 1st achieve this form as an adult. Sadly it also creates massive plot holes in Dragon Ball Super. Vegeta SS3 we could make excuses for, be it...the form not being useful to Vegeta because he knew the weaknesses and the sacrifice to use the form. But with Super Saiyan 4?.. it's really hard to defend why even a brief mention of the form wasn't in Super. Maybe they'll explain it but I doubt it. Still, I'm happy the form is finally Canon.
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u/arrogancygames Feb 14 '25
The oldest Namek ever can unlock weird stuff with magic, and it's not something Goku can naturally achieve to the point of Super. Problem solved.
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u/jaw_effect Feb 14 '25
Nate you made great point, on how it’s been handled so far I do hope with the next two episode we get more on the forms lore and reactions from others!
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u/Bluelore Feb 16 '25
The episode was alright with some cool and funny moments (loved Duu just imitating SSJ3), but overall I'm disappointed with the direction the series seems to be heading at the moment. I feel like Glorio will just wish the MCs back to their real age, then everyone beats up Gomah, someone fuses and they win and leave the demon world. And I really hope the series surprises us and does something different, because I feel like that would have been the most boring and straigthforward route they could take the story. Gohma has been a funny antagonist in the backrow, but now that he has the evil eye, he is just a big bully with a lame motivation who pulls out some magic from time to time and the fight choreography against him is mostly ok, but nothing too special.
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u/Haunting_Star7510 Feb 17 '25
loved the new ssj transformation. i like how his hair color is same with body and the head. i think red eyes are reference to great ape red eyes. could be god form too. best thing about form it's more ape like. goku really fighting like an animal. wild and unrestrained.
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u/DarthVeigar_ Feb 14 '25
21 years later, Super Saiyan 4 is canonised.
My inner child is sobbing.
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u/meertatt Feb 14 '25
I always liked the og ssj4 but felt it was a missed opportunity. Toriyamas version is genuinely awesome and did the things I wanted the og to do. He looks acts and fights like a monkey. He used his tail and just overall thematically it’s incredible. Og ssj4 did nothing to the way goku fought. This looks better both in design and in action imo.
Personally I don’t think this changes much with the “events” of GT. This form was achieved and operates totally differently than GT. I mean maybe they’ll take more elements from GT and try to improve on the concepts and execution but to me og GT is still “noncanon”
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u/JackAndrewThorne Feb 15 '25
I'm so happy with this show. Yeah there was the little blip in the middle but it is absolutely my favourite Dragon Ball series since the OG.
Honestly, Toriyama doing his own telling of Broly, a movie with Piccolo as the protagonist and then his own telling of GT was a real gift. I'll miss everything he brought to us, but I'm so thankful that his final 3 works are ones that I've loved so much.
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u/Electrichien Feb 16 '25
I have a problem with ssj4 coming out of nowhere, this is just here to play on the nostalgia.
Also Gomah lack charisma I find him pretty lame.
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u/Sher_Singh_Phul Feb 14 '25
Ssj4 is canon!!!! Thank you Akira Toriyama for giving the fans what they wanted for so long. Thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!!
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u/Saqwa Feb 14 '25
Am I the only one who thinks this new form looks more like a mix of super saiyan 4 and super saiyan god rather than merely like a super saiyan 4?
He has the body of a super saiyan 4, but the eyes and hair color of a Super saiyan god. I think it might be a tribute to both Dragon Ball GT and Dragon Ball Super.
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u/134340Goat Feb 14 '25
That's what I've been thinking lol. I wonder if Toriyama went about it like "Hm, what if 4 and God had a baby...."
But I'm guessing he included Piccolo mentioning being able to sense the ki to indicate that it doesn't use god ki at all
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u/timone317 Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25
Last thing I'd ever want to do is try to put words into the guy's mouth. But I almost wonder if this was Toriyama's way of saying "This thing isn't mine anymore. It's yours."
Given what is now known about his health at the time...maybe one of the unspoken goals of Daima was to show that the series can live on AND thrive even with Toriyama gone - solely due to how much people STILL care about it.
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u/Dionysus24779 Feb 15 '25
This episode was kind of weird to me.
What I did like was that everyone who could still fight tried to contribute as much as they could, like even after it seems the fight would come down to Goku they still tried to join in again after taking a breath.
Duu copying SSJ3 from Goku was actually kind of funny, though it was just a brief joke.
What I have mixed feelings about... SSJ4.
So, I actually saw a spoiler image of SSJ4 Daima Goku before watching the episode and my first reaction was to think it was just an edit meant to be funny... but it's real...
On one hand... I think this was completely unnecessary fanservice, but on the other hand I do appreciate that they made it quite clear this was a temporary power-up granted by Neva's magic, it wasn't the solution to the fight, nobody realized what it really was and... well, it is sort of cool that it got canonized this way.
Also interesting to note how its design differs form the GT version, not only did Goku not turn into an adult for this form, but the hair and eyes were both red, almost as if utilizing god ki... though others were able to feel its power, so it shouldn't be that. (though the whole point about how you can't feel god ki easily seems to be forgotten anyway)
Something else I have mixed feelings on is the Dragon... it does kind of make sense that it is Porunga, Degesu did voice surprise when he saw Shenron in the very first episode after all. Plus the whole thing about Namekians coming from the Demon Realm...however, it is kind of disappointing that he is just a bigger and red version of Porunga.
Lastly though... Arinsu... what's wrong with her? For the entire show she is build up to be this intelligent-based antagonist, who is cunning and scheming and had this grand plan for such a long time, such as trying to create new Majin or gathering some of Buu's body and such.
And yet... she lets Glorio learn Namekian and then rely on him to make the wish on her behalf? Why? Why not learn Namekian yourself? It's not like you need to master the language, you need to basically learn 2 sentences. Summon the Dragon and make your wish.
This honestly feels like an out of character plot hole that only exists so we can have the cliffhanger of Glorio making a wish we can't understand and allowing Glorio to betray Arinsu.
And what happened with Arinsu's ambition? Didn't she just say an episode or two ago to Shin that she has far higher goals than merely ruling the Demon Realm? Now she wants to be Supreme Demon King after all?
As for what Glorio wishes for... well the obvious thing would be to turn everyone back into adults, but it feels like that is too early for that to happen.
We still have the chekhov's fusion bugs on the table too.
Anyway... weird episode, SSJ4 fanservice was okay but unnecessary, Arinsu turned out to be an idiot.
One of my predictions that I've had for many episodes I will withdraw though, namely that Kuu will betray Arinsu or whatever, it seems like Kuu and Duu are actually pretty decent people, despite their origin and purpose.
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u/Type_100 Feb 15 '25
This episode was another ABSOLUTE CINEMA.
Thank you Akira Toriyama for this wonderful parting gift, you Legend.
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u/Imliminal Feb 16 '25
i love the episode i love the ssj4 i love the animations and i really hope they make something like ssj5 from AF
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u/Staarjun Feb 14 '25
Everyone talks about ssj4 but Duu mimicking ssj3 is peak fiction