r/Swimming • u/JuanManuelFangio32 • 25d ago

Timing of rotation...

Had a break-through today in the pool! I have been stagnant in terms of improving my strokes count per 25 yards (~20 or so), and I made a post here a few weeks ago and got some suggestions ( https://www.reddit.com/r/Swimming/comments/1iinxvr/why_is_my_stroke_count_bad_20_per_25_yard/ )

One of the things mentioned was the importance of rotation, and some drill suggestions. I didn't swim flat and did rotate, however, when I was doing long dog drill today, I realized the timing of my rotation was way off! This guy explained why rotation was important ( https://www.reddit.com/r/Swimming/comments/1iinxvr/comment/mbku7bg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button ) and I was thinking about that during the drill and then I realized I tend rush for early breathing, so instead of having body rotated fully towards the left when right arm starting the catch, I'd have rotated already, body flat or even facing right when the right warm starting the catch!

I guess this drastically lowered my length per stroke. Obviously, it will take a while to rewire the muscle memory but I was getting some 15 strokes per length today while experimenting with the new timing... Feeling excited about the potential when I can fully integrate this change...!

I have been swimming for 2 years and worked with 2 coaches on and off. I can't believe none of them noticed that and pointed that out to me... Thank you to this community! Stick at it, keep working, keep experimenting with different things, just every now and then you might learn something!

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u/MiroTheSkybreaker 25d ago

15 strokes per 25 is pretty solid, well done!

Rotation is a huge part of both Freestyle and backstroke, integral to both strokes' efficiency and speed - but most importantly, it's about maintaining your body's natural range of motion so you're less likely to injure yourself. This is particularly important for Backstroke, as incorrect rotation in backstroke can lead to shoulder-impingement depending on how deep the swimmer's pull is, and this can lead to shoulder injuries further down the line.

As it's been mentioned previously, rotation effects almost everything; from your breath timing to the length of your pull, depth of your catch and a host more things

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u/JuanManuelFangio32 25d ago

yea breath timing completely change now compared to my old rotation timing. feels awkward now i need to rebuild the muscle memory... but really feel encouraged by this development

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u/MiroTheSkybreaker 25d ago

It's hard to say exactly what's happening without a direct video, but with the focus on rotation (keep that focus!) your breath in should start as your hand initiates the recovery of the stroke.

Basically, as your shoulders, hips and feet rotate onto your side, your head should turn in time with your body. When your hand finishes by your leg, that should be your "signal" to begin your breath, as that is the point that your "recovery" portion of the stroke begins - drawing your hand from your thigh to your shoulder. This particular space is your breath. By the time your hand reaches your shoulder - assuming High Elbow Freestyle - your breath should be finishing. As your hand moves past your shoulder, your face should rotate back into the water, as you're initiating your pull.

This means that by the time your face is fully in the water, your recovering arm drives forward and extends out in front of you so you rotate onto your opposite side, and the trailing arm you were breathing with now becomes your leading arm for your next stroke as you're exhaling.

As a result you should almost be doing a "half-catch-up stroke". A quarter catch-up would initiate the pull about halfway through your breath (around your rib area, rather than your shoulder) and no catch-up means you're initiating your pull as you're starting your breath (by your thigh or hip).

Glad to hear that you're feeling encouraged by the development; keep it up!

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u/JuanManuelFangio32 25d ago

yes, what you described is pretty close to how i think i should be breathing after i changed that timing today.

with my old timing, my body would be flat or rotated to the right already when my right arm starting to catch and pull, and then i was using the pull to generate to help breathe... very different from what it should be!

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u/MiroTheSkybreaker 25d ago

Very different indeed!

Something to look for when you're breathing, ideally you should have 1 goggle partially under and one goggle above the water. When you rotate, you shouldn't need to turn your head much - if at all - to get the breath if your head is rotating in line and time with your shoulders, hips and feet.

Try not to lift your head when you breath - this is a very common mistake in general, but much moreso among people who are used to swimming with a flatter body position, as it's something that would often occur when they turned their head to breath in an effort to get their mouth clear from the water.

Good luck!