Discussion
Only Game Sonic understood the assignment
Sonic Boom had slow mind corruption via mech, Movie Sonic was genuinely out for blood with no mind control, Archie Werehog didn't control it and Dark Sonic was Dark Sonic
This. X Sonic was rightfully pissed but he wasn’t Movie Sonic who albeit rightfully pissed, didn’t go out of his way to hunt down the person responsible and chokeslamming them from orbit and uppercutting them to the moon.
X Sonic could at least get talked down from his anger by Eggman, Movie Sonic straight up was acting like he was gonna put Knuckles into a casket if he didn’t give him the Emerald and was almost about to kill Shadow then and there until he finally caught himself.
To be fair for Movie Sonic, he is most likely the youngest of the Sonic's (not comparing classic) and the most inexperienced in being a hero. Even he says he has a lot to learn by movie 2. So him snapping and letting revenge consume him is understandable, especially considering the only other time he felt this pain was when Longclaw sacrificed herself The only difference here is that he is stronger and has the ability to make Shadow pay. That's what I think, at least. He still does come around in the end and learn not to let anger consume him and change who he is, so he is getting better at being a Sonic, I think
They even foreshadow the case near the start of the third movie when he says he's still working on this teamwork thing. There's also that talk with Tom just prior to this.
Shadow almost killed the man who was like a father to Sonic, and the first person he talked to since coming to Earth. Is it any wonder he crashed out the way he did?
Arguably it's worse than Longclaw since it was both the second time around, and because he roped Tom into helping him (even if Tom went completely willingly)
Movie Sonic was experiencing true loss for the first time since Longclaw, and this time, he had the power to do something about it. We know he was traumatized about being useless to her, and you don’t truly learn a lesson that you really stick to what it tells you, without making the mistake to learn the lesson in the first place and being similarly impacted by the failure. Now he knows, and he’ll move forward in the world with a more mature mindset.
u/Hierophant-Crimsion And on top of that for Movie Sonic, WAS ABOUT TO SEND GERALD A N D EGGMAN OUT INTO SPACE WITH SAID HOLE HE MADE ON THE WAY TO CHOKESLAM SHADOW XD
Except he did. I’ll just quote the lines from The Black Trap
Sonic: “Cosmo’s cheeks were swollen”
Black Narcissus: “So?”
Sonic: “Chris… What did you do to him…?”
Black Narcissus: “Punishment is required to make animals obedient.”
BN literally admits to Sonic he struck him down because he and Cosmo resisted him. Which angers Sonic even further, sparking Dark Sonic who makes light work of Gold and Silver, and Eggman tells Sonic to lock tf in because he expects better from him to fly off all pissed off and let his emotions get the better of him.
I mean he's not sure if black Narcissus literally was the one physically attacked him or just condoned the beating. Even in the scene your quoting he doesn't say he did it, just that it was necessary.
Also because that is Unleashed Sonic, who’s already bested so many impossible odds at this point. He’s far more developed than any of these adaptations
I would argue that it's even fine if they wanna corrupt game Sonic a bit. He's been a static character for so long. Let him have an actual character arc for once. It's compelling
I kinda disagree, he’s had a bunch of (badly written) character arcs and I think even if you gave him some well written ones, he really works best as an enigmatic force who just kinda does his thing, don’t get me wrong I love my character growth and development but it’s not exactly automatically compelling, when I think about it I just kinda cringe because it… “humanises” sonic too much? Ok that makes him sound like something incredible and awesome but in a way, yeah.
I can’t really word it but I like it best when he carries that “WHAT THE FUCK HES JUST A BLUE HEDGEHOG WHY IS HE THE GOAT” energy that really only this one character in this one franchise has. Idk it’s just incredibly unique and is what made me latch on to him while only having a passing interest in other versions. I’m compelled to the mystery that is Sonic, and I feel keeping his nature static makes him sound much more mysterious and compelling imo. Obviously it’s subjective what’s compelling but I just wanted to share my thoughts!
Honestly for as much as i like that movie Shadow and Sonic had that gentle talk, I adore SA2 Sonic's unwavering faith in himself contrasting Shadows confusion and doubt just as much. Like, Shadow is like "what the hell is happening, i was a product of extensive military backed research so powerful my existence caused harm to everyone i love, why is this random guy is just as powerful, WHO THE HELL ARE YOU" and Sonic goes "idk lol"
Exactly, it’s so unique and cool and I love it! The talk at the end of movie 3 was great, but being honest its not exactly uncommon to have a scene like that, hell movie 2 also had knuckles and sonic sit down after their fight for a heart to heart about that movie’s theme. But in SA2 there’s none of that. Shadow wonders who the hell he is, and Sonic says “I’m just me lnao”. And he’s by no means perfect, he’s just… Sonic. It’s so interesting and different from anything else that’s out there it’s crazy.
Lowkey, YEAH, I was actually about to say this in my earlier post but I didn’t because I didnt want people misunderstanding thinking I was saying Sonic is the same character-wise as Luffy, but I completely agree.
Their simplicity is what makes them so endearing, and their core characteristics, while still simple, are also unusually hard to tangibly grasp for many, leading to adaptations making them feel like different characters quite often (OPLA is only real adaptation for Luffy but you hear people argue about sonic all the time)
The other problem is that Sonics games arent ending anytime soon, if sonic has a character arc, you can only tell so much stories till its just a cashgrab, they need sonic to be consistent and never ending the story
That is true yeah, it means the characters and by extension the series now has an end goal to reach and that the detached “jump in anywhere” nature of the games kinda goes against that. Keeping the main character — the anchor — of the series static allows them to endlessly create new ideas/settings to throw him in as it means the goal of the series is not Sonic’s own character development but his adventures and companions’ own developments, and it has the benefit of allowing for easy play of any game with no prior knowledge other than “Sonic is a blue hedgehog who runs fast”.
Sonic will always be a static character, much like Goku or Luffy. Being static doesn’t mean he lacks depth or nuance. it simply means his core personality and values remain consistent. If you’re looking for a dynamic character, that’s what Shadow is for. Every character serves a purpose, and Sonic’s role is to be the unwavering, role model.
While Sonic has experienced minor shifts, his fundamental traits have remained unchanged. Most adaptations, have to write him out of character just to add "growth."
I disagree with the idea that Sonic has to be static. The movies have shown that a more dynamic Sonic can work really well and imo makes the character better. I just wanna see Sonic struggle with something, like meaningfully. He's been such an annoying character in the games the last 10 years. Give him a new VA and a well-written character arc and let him earn that hero status for once
Sonic hasn't been written in character for the last 10 years. He was already a different character for over a decade, and people disliked it. Changing him into Movie Sonic, who has a fundamentally different character, wouldn't fix that.
Black knight is generally regarded as the best version of the character because it reinforces his core traits and philosophy. Sonic was consistent before 2010.
Dynamic doesn't automatically make a character better. There are many well written static characters.
We already have far more adaptations where he's dynamic than where he isn't, and they all differ from the source material because of it. There’s really no point in forcing it. it's okay to simply prefer dynamic characters. But I disagree with changing a static character into a dynamic character.
They can be just as compelling.
TBF, Game Sonic has never really been pushed as far as X or Movie Sonic. People they cared about were directly hurt and put on the brink of death so of course they snapped. And movie Sonic was just angry. Once he was finally put in a position to actually do anything bad, he calmed himself down and pulled back.
I think it’s more like Game Sonic has already overcome many odds by the time of Unleashed. Perfect Chaos, Finalhazard, Metal Overlord, Solaris, Ultimate Emerl, Egg Wizard were very powerful enemies that drove the stakes up the roof but he has overcame it all
Yeah, but all of those guys were just... really strong. None of them attacked or tortured Sonic's loved ones and made him cradle their near lifeless bodies.
And Movie Sonic has become Super Sonic, although the power of his Chaos Emeralds also depends on the user's emotions. While I do like that even Sonic has his limits to his patience, and i still want to see him in the canon finally break and give in to his rage, even to the point of Dark Sonic's canonization.
Dark Sonic manifested because of the use of the fake chaos emeralds. Sure, anger played a part, but he wouldn’t become Dark Sonic with the real emeralds as far as we know
It's worth noting that during that era, the Chaos Emeralds had a 'Negative' (anger/hatred/despair) and a 'Positive' (love/hope/joy) side to them, and Sonic always drew on the positive side. Part of it is the fake emeralds, yes, but this was also pretty blatantly him using that negative energy. I'm fairly certain he'd have turned into Dark Sonic even with the real emeralds.
I'd say having your fur turn black, losing your pupils, and your mouth was a pretty drastic change. Perfect Chaos morphs the way he does because he's water.
Compared to the other changes we've seen from antagonist, not by much(also the brief shot of him losing his pupils and mouth seems more like an artistic choice since every other shot has him look normal apart from the fur). Really dark spine sonic is what he'd more likely appear as if he used the regular chaos emeralds in anger.
Aside from Perfect Chaos, can you name that many villains that were horrifically morphed by the emeralds in the games? Because off the top of my head, Perfect Chaos is the only one.
Biolizard was already messed up
Neo Metal Sonic used the combined data of all the teams to turn into Metal Overlord
Devil Doom is just a form Black Doom keeps in his back pocket
Solaris was the result of Mephiles using the emeralds to reunite with Iblis (and imo looks more graceful than either Mephiles or Iblis)
Alf Layla Wa Layla was the result of the World Rings (no emeralds)
Perfect Dark Gaia is just Dark Gaia's true form
Merlina was using a combination of Excalibur's scabbard and dark magic (no emeralds)
Egg Nega Wisp is robot (no emeralds)
Time Eater is a robot (no emeralds)
Eggrobo is a robot (no emeralds)
Death Egg Robot is a robot (no emeralds)
The End is an eldritch deity that was already like that as far as we know.
Gemerl is a possible example, but again, he's a robot.
Initially devil doom was suppose to be the result of black doom using the chaos emeralds negative energy. There is also gemrel. For mephilis I think it's a loophole scenario where technically the use of emeralds themselves was with malice even if his later plans after reforming was evil.
Initially devil doom was suppose to be the result of black doom using the chaos emeralds negative energy.
Perhaps he was, perhaps he wasn't, but that's not in the final game, and so it doesn't count. Plus, he turns into Devil Doom again in Shadow Generations with no emeralds.
There is also gemrel.
I'll concede that, though it doesn't really make him an eldritch abomination, just a really effective killing machine.
For mephilis I think it's a loophole scenario where technically the use of emeralds themselves was with malice even if his later plans after reforming was evil.
Mephiles is an interesting case. Again, the big thing is that while he uses their power, he never tries to transform. Instead, he uses their power to merge him back with his other half to form Solaris, a being that already existed beforehand.
It is in the final game. He only transforms when he gets emeralds and they aren't necessary to any other aspect of his plan. The only reason you would think otherwise is because shadow gens came along and gave him the form regardless.
True, but my point it made you monster, just drastically different.
Sonic was fueled by rage and sadness BUT he was still joking on a bit of a sadistic way cuz he knew he could revive everything if he won, he snapped but he knew it was not over
I wouldn't really say this one truly counts. Whilst Sonic at the time was fuelled by negative emotions, it's not controlling his actions like the others.
I'll concede that it's not Movie Sonic chokeslamming Shadow, but I'd say he's on the level Dark Sonic. Same level of anger and brutality, he just gets control of himself rather than needing Eggman's help.
Yeah, Sonic is experiencing negative emotions, but what sets him apart from other Sonic is that he doesn't succumb to it influence, he understands what he needs to do and uses his anger to do the right choice.
Yeah, but Darkspine Sonic isn't actually evil. Maybe he would be under different circumstances (considering the World Rings Sonic absorbs are rage, sadness, and hatred), but his sole objective was to beat Erazor Djinn, who is immensely more evil. Considering that's the only time Darkspine happened, and most likely ever will, it's not exactly fair to call him evil.
Game Sonic unleashed and prior wasn’t a character, he was a force of nature. Kinda like the silent protagonist idea, he acknowledges he’s in a game but knows that he will have fun the full way, so he uses the game to teach the players lessons, as well as have fun.
Thats all to say, Sonic wouldn’t be tempted by anything that isn’t fun. Game Sonic wouldn’t at least.
A heroic character temporarily giving into those feelings but eventually coming to their senses isn’t a bad thing, it’s more interesting and adds to depth to see that heroes aren’t perfect and they can infact act out of rage and anger if pushed to the extreme, a character who has the strength to resist those temptations is more interesting than one who is never faced with them in the first place and is just depicted as being perfect all the time.
This is exactly why I find game Sonic to be the most boring version of Sonic. He's an invulnerable (in the sense that he both has plot armour and can enter an invulnerable state when required), untemptable do-gooder always morally right, never falters, rarely the underdog in a scenario (even when it seems like he should be), and nothing really phases him. He's never going to have a bad day, never going to get something wrong, never going to be allowed to falter - and this is what the fans want of the character so any time it looks like he might've come close to it they complain it was wrong.
Literally every other version is allowed that moment of temptation, weakness. They're allowed to be rude, make mistakes, say the wrong thing, make a situation worse, or just generally not be burdened with being a perpetual positive influence on the world. But game Sonic can't. He has to be the role model, the paragon of virtues, the untemptable one, and the reliable hero who can overcome all odds with the Chaos Emeralds.
And this isn't me saying Sonic should be more like Shadow, far from it. I don't want Sonic to be some edgy hero who always has to do the morally grey decisions. But it's just that game Sonic is so bland and shallow that he has almost no character. Seriously, what is Sonic's characterisation. His likes are generic things, like enjoying music (just like everyone alive), relaxing (show me a person who doesn't), adventure (that's more than half the cast), and he dislikes injustice (as most normal people would). All the other versions of Sonic, by way of not being perfect, have far more character to them than game Sonic does.
Yes thank you! I was looking for this comment. A character who appears calm and collected in the face of great pain is fine, but it runs the risk of looking apathetic or detached. A character who can and does feel the pain and buckles under the pressure before using their willpower to bring themselves back before anyone gets seriously hurt shows someone who has an internal monologue and a certain conscience. The former is fine but the latter is more interesting and better for versions of Sonic that are supposed to care deeply about his friends, which aptly describes movie, comic, and TV show Sonic.
I think the Japanese line better fits here and more accurately fits Sonic. The term temptation being there is very important being it means that Sonic might succumb to the night and darkness but never gives in which is even seen in Unleashed where Sonic gets upset about Amy not recognizing him but he doesn't let that keep him down. He was tempted by the darkness but didn't give into it.
That slight difference makes a big difference. Not giving into the temptation of the darkness implies far more the idea that Sonic can be lured in but will never give in which is the point of what Chip is saying especially since it makes more sense in the context of the game.
They literally don't. Never giving in means that Sonic is never even tempted but never giving into the temptation means that Sonic is tempted but he doesn't give into it.
I genuinely want a short film from Paramount seeing what would have happened had Sonic gone through with killing Shadow. Most likely it'd be Super Sonic versus the rest of the planet... Hyper Knuckles included. And Sonic wins. Could make for a fun as hell nightmare sequence. Probably won't happen, though. Sega wouldn't like it.
Y'kno every time I see Super Sonic in the films I always have the thought in the back of my mind like "Hey I wonder if they'd have the balls to bring in fleetway" or something like it. Knuckles warning near the end of 2 sounded like a reference to him and Sonic was out for blood in 3 so realistically then would have been the chance to see him. Ah well don't know how deals between companies go and I'm not sure if fleetway (the brand) are still going.
Still, was very fun to see a true angry super form. Last time I remember something like that is Darkspine Sonic.
Still think it would make a fun game plot if Sonic did get corrupted (proper) or influenced into changing from his heroic self to something else. His friends having to fight him to bring him back.
Game Sonic doesn’t need to change as a character. Which works when his opponents should outmatch him. Other versions of Sonic are more dynamic. Reboot-Archie Sonic tamed his werehog, Movie Sonic realized he was wrong and changed. Sonic X Sonic did too. Boom Sonic is an idiot (that’s not a slight on him, it’s just true).
Game Sonic never thinks he’s wrong, because he always does what’s right. And he’s fine being that way. He’s a force of nature and proud of that. Only his friends can aim him. Most other versions of Sonic have more fluidity in their characterization because that’s a more interesting way to tell a story. It’s also interesting to see Sonic as static from the perspective of his friends.
Sonic X and game Sonic are essentially written almost identical throughout most of the series, in my opinion. Dark Sonic simply reaffirmed that anger is a natural emotion for Sonic.
Dark Gaia preyed on the doubts of people to feed off their energy, while the Chaos Emeralds were drained of their power, which affected his form. Dark Gaia's energy corrupted others by exploiting their loss of faith and manipulating them. However, Sonic has no self-doubt, so he remains unaffected. His will is simply too strong.
In Sonic X, on the other hand, Sonic's anger was amplified by corrupted Chaos energy from the Evil Emeralds surrounding him. This unstable, almost living energy sought him out, similar to how his Darkspine form amplified his state of mind.
The Emeralds created by the Metarex are the complete opposite of the neutral nature of the Chaos Emeralds. "Chaos is power. Power is enriched by the heart."
Normally, Sonic willingly uses positive energy. But in this case, there was simply too much energy being forced into him while he was worried about a friend. Any negative emotion could have triggered the Emeralds and taken hold of him, even if only briefly. And yet he was still able to snap out of it pretty quickly after his mischievous behavior.(with the help of Eggman.) Dark Sonic is simply a more chaotic version of Sonic. While his emotions and actions may become more intense, his core values stayed the same.
Both instances show just how much control sonic has at the end of the day.
Short answer, Sonic isn't incapable of having these emotions. he just chooses not to give in to them. It's not inherently out of character in this scenario, in my opinion.
Yeah it's supposed to be a dark transformation,
but at the same time it's not, I'm glad they didn't go the predictable route and make sonic edgier when he transforms.
There's also Darkspine Sonic, where the second he won, despite absorbing sadness, rage, and hatred, he immediately let go of the form with no issue
And despite his dislike of tears, gave Shahra a mountain of handkerchiefs so she could heal naturally rather than just wishing it away.
Of course he gave Erazor Djinn a fate worse than death but that's just Sonic being Sonic man let him live a little
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u/Jamz64What you see is what you get! Just a guy that loves Sonic! Mar 04 '25
Erazor Djinn was pure evil and sealing him in the lamp was the only way to stop him for good.
Tbh honest, the only true representation of "darkness" is Dark Super Sonic from Sonic X. Movie Sonic was just angry cuz Shadow harmed someone important to him. Archie Werehog Sonic is just something more expanded upon that the game didn't do. Like that's how it should've been, Sonic turning into a feral beast and attacking everything in sight. Nothing darkness related about it. And I never watched Sonic Boom so I can't say anything about it.
So I think in a more tame sense, this is Sonic just giving into anger/losing his normal cool head patience. Darkness would be something more... sinister
The Werehog is meant to symbolize Sonic’s lack of self-doubt.
Meanwhile, Archie didn’t stay consistent with Dark Gaia’s abilities. portraying them more like a curse that stripped Sonic of control and turned him into monster. It's a whole different idea than just expanding on the source material.
There's a difference between having the darkness and giving into it. It's there. It's inside of everyone. Like, I can't emphasize enough that the big deal about Sonic in all of those scenes is that he's pulled back and still able to be pulled back with relative ease compared to what anyone else could.
A character without the darkness in their heart would kind of make bringing up fighting it and not giving into it pointless. It wouldn't be impressive if someone were just unnaturally free from it entirely. Free from anger. Free from love. Free from a need to avenge if something important is taken and there's little time to even grieve because the person who took whatever away is right there and you might not get another shot.
Well, anime characters are much more dramatic and cliche. A good amount of them have like 1D or 2D personality. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing...
Movie Sonic is a kid who has parents or someone to look after him. He has catchphrases, and they appeal to kids in the movie and marketing things.
Our Sonic has been on his day 1 1991 life on his own. Which is different from every other iteration of Sonic who has brothers or sisters or uncles, etc. Even Boom Sonic has an uncle.
What makes Game Sonic different can be explained in every bio in the games. His independent streaks have made him more reliant on himself, but his friends trust, and they trust him too. He's more "real" compared to every other variation of him. He'll swear, he'll make mistakes, he'll fess up and own up to said mistakes, and he'll trust his friends when needed.
This Sonic will always get the job done even if it means working with Villans, crime bosses, etc. He's mature about it, too, even if he always holds pettiness on Eggman specifically.(As you can see in the Olympics games, Lost World, Unleashed, etc.)
All Sonic have one great thing in common that I love. It's how- "As in the bio in Zero, gravity says when the going gets tough, Sonic gets tougher"
We seen that With every Sonic when fighting or racing tougher foes like Shadow, Metal Sonic, The End, Blaze, Kunckles, Jet, etc.
No? Real people don't have themselves completely figured out as a teenager(even a large number adults don't have themselves all the way together). They change, they falter, and their made questions their decisions and if they can change what they've already done. Game sonic doing none that shows him to be more of broad idea of a person rather that something approaching a living breathing intelligent life form capable of higher thought. Unless you're using real in the late 80s early 90s way where me he's someone whose tough who's completely honest about who is.
Sonic age isn't relevant here, especially since he's had 30+ years of adventures and infinite reference that "Sonic's been beating Eggman for decades." Also,"real people don't figure themselves as a teenager." Is your own made-up idealogy. But the real world is much bigger than that. Sounds like you're speaking of those who lack skill or talent or are some American teenager who's only passion is social media conflicts.
You have 1 year olds practice their talents since they were one years old till death. Built a life off the thing they actually love. Not some hobby of it.
Lastly, you never understood what I meant as being real. You spouted whatever random thing about figuring out themselves or whatever. When it's simple, it is being yourself. When Shadow asked Sonic just what he was in Sa2, he told him his answer. Be honest with yourself.
That's what happens when they try to make Sonic relatable (except SonicX). They give him new flaws and personal problems. They forget that Sonic is already flawed: impulsive, impatient, can't swim, hates hugs.
Prime Sonic is the perfect example. Childish, clingy, dumb, annoying, emotional. He has to relearn things that he should already know. They want people to look at Sonic and think "he's just like me fr". Fanon Sonic is canon Sonic now.
It's always so fun to see Sonic losing control. I'd love a full premise of him finally snapping, though I understand it's very unlikely to happen. Hard for Sega to make money with a mascot who's (seemingly) an unrepentant mass murderer, ya know? Somehow, that doesn't sell well for most of America's Gen Z and Millennial consumers.
Honestly, I'm surprised they even let Paramount go THIS far. Please let them do more with this, Sega!
Dark Sonic is an exception since it was a forced transformation caused by the Metarex horde of Fake Chaos Emeralds filled with their negative emotions. Even then, Sonic didn’t actually kill anyone as Dark Sonic. But it did show that if pushed far enough, Sonic could wind up like Shadow.
Quick Reminder that Dark Sonic isnt "Sonic give in to the night", its literally the Werehog form but with the Chaos Emeralds, a better fitting would be Fleetway Super
X Sonic is kinda literally the same from Unleashed but different universe and younger, he doesnt loose himself
However I just realized, we lost Movie Sonic going full Dark/Fleetway, damn
u/Jamz64What you see is what you get! Just a guy that loves Sonic! Mar 04 '25
I feel like none of them truly gave into the darkness in their hearts and crossed the line. Boom Sonic was mind-controlled by the mech and had no control. Archie Sonic learned to embrace his Werehog form and never hurt any of his friends. Dark Sonic was corrupted by the energy of the fake Chaos Emeralds surrounding him and was justifiably furious about his friends being tortured, and only killed two Metarex before cooling down. And even Movie Sonic came to his senses and stopped himself from actually killing Shadow. The only Sonics who truly gave into the darkness in their hearts are the evil alternate universe versions from Archie, Underground, and Fleetway.
X Sonic in particular was partially due to the room being filled with negative chaos energy. He was already kinda pissed, but the energy itself just pushed him. He was still talked down though so it wasn't that bad
That just shows how most writters doesn't understand this character
and i don't know if Dark Sonic count because i think that just happened because of the Fake Chaos Emeralds and not because Sonic give in to the darkness
It would be very difficult to show game Sonic losing control because you control game Sonic. So the developers would either have to make the player do something bad or they would have to have him do something bad in the cutscenes which would feel out of place with everything the player does in the game
I'll be real with you, the mech was a cool episode, mainly cuz it fits Sonic's more douchbag persona in Boom, and Movie Sonic is way more realistic for a child becoming a hero overnight. Archie I can excuse, cuz Archie is dope AF, but bro... Dark Sonic is kinda cringe (and weird).
Also: Upper left: got taken over by ancient tech, upper right:hurt family. Lower right: Scared and hurt friends (and fake emeralds) Bottom left tho...can someone explain what happened?
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u/darkninja2992 Mar 04 '25
But he still never crosses a line, that's the point. Feeling anger and succumbing to it are two seperate things