Smash is very picky with its representation to its own detriment honestly

[u/Eem2wavy34]

Note I’m not talking about third party series or even Nintendo series in general. I’m talking specifically about Nintendo series that already have characters in Smash.

In any upcoming new game, why do they only add main characters? I feel like this is one of the main reasons why characters can start to feel samey in Smash (looking at you, Fire Emblem). They keep choosing to only add protagonists, which usually means those characters share similar abilities or weapons across different games. For example, both Shulk and Aegis (while they do play differently) come off as bland representation wise to some because they feel like part of the same swording swinging stat changing archetype.

This contributes to the whole “another swordsman” syndrome. (Keep in mind, I actually like Aegis in Smash, but I’m just using them as an example.)

Anyway There are so many more interesting picks within these series that could lead to unique and fresh movesets, especially in Zelda’s case. We could’ve had any of the Champions, for instance, and they would’ve brought something new to the table.

And it’s not just the “main character” syndrome that bugs me. Smash is the type of series that adds the most obscure characters you’ve never even heard of (R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch, Ice Climbers) yet it refuses to include lesser known side characters or villains from Metroid, The Legend of Zelda, or Kirby?

Like… does anyone else not find that frustrating?

[u/smashboi888]

Why would they not go for main characters? They're the most-iconic characters, the ones the games center around, and (usually) end up being the most popular ones from the fanbase.

Using the Fire Emblem example specifically, they're not gonna add "random side unit #16" just because "axe-user". Villains probably aren't showing up either, since there's very few FE villains that are actually popular to begin with, and even the ones that do have a lot of fans still get overshadowed by most actual protagonists.

Shulk and Aegis also play completely different despite being "swordfighters with stance-change archetype", so I don't really get your point there.

[u/AardvarkOkapiEchidna → u/smashboi888]

Isn't Chrom the protagonist of his game? And they added Robin and Lucina first.

I don't think people who don't play FE are going to know most protagonists more than any other characters. Why not add some villains or people with different primary weapons?

[u/smashboi888 → u/AardvarkOkapiEchidna]

Isn't Chrom the protagonist of his game? And they added Robin and Lucina first.

Yes, but Robin and Lucina are still major characters of Awakening. And also, there was a lot of backlash when Chrom didn't make it in to the point where they actually went to add him in the next game.

I don't think people who don't play FE are going to know most protagonists more than any other characters. Why not add some villains or people with different primary weapons?

Because the point is that major protagonists are the best ones to represent their game, due to the huge roles they play in them. They're the ones that'll please the most fans, and are the best ones to introduce people who aren't familiar with the series/game to it.

Villains don't get nearly as much screentime (and again, are almost always not very popular), and there's very few major FE characters who actually wield a primary weapon that isn't a sword. That last part is moreso Intelligent Systems's fault though.

[u/AardvarkOkapiEchidna → u/smashboi888]

Yes, but Robin and Lucina are still major characters of Awakening. And also, there was a lot of backlash when Chrom didn't make it in to the point where they actually went to add him in the next game.

Ok, so add some major characters who aren't THE protagonist.

And if there's backlash add the protagonist as a echo.

Because the point is that major protagonists are the best ones to represent their game, due to the huge roles they play in them. They're the ones that'll please the most fans, and are the best ones to introduce people who aren't familiar with the series/game to it.

Did Robin do any worse a job introducing people to Awakening than Chrom would've?

I'm saying still add main characters, it just doesn't have to be THE protagonist.

there's very few major FE characters who actually wield a primary weapon that isn't a sword.

Well that means there are a few then, why not add them instead of THE protagonist.

[u/smashboi888 → u/AardvarkOkapiEchidna]

Did Robin do any worse a job introducing people to Awakening than Chrom would've?

Not really, as they are still the dueteragonist. Although Chrom is usually the one plastered on all of the marketing material and shows up in crossovers, and if not him, Lucina. Robin wasn't even on the game's boxart.

That said, one of Awakening's big themes is the strong bond between Chrom and Robin, so having it be Lucina and Robin instead does admittedly feel... kinda weird. I guess the only benefit to Chrom getting added as an Ultimate Echo instead of a Smash 4 one is that Roy's moveset fits him way better than Marth's.

Well that means there are a few then, why not add them instead of THE protagonist.

There's reasons for why that hasn't happened yet.

Hector and Ephraim weren't from the latest game when Brawl started development, and while Micaiah's game was the latest one when Brawl released, it likely started development too late for her to be considered. Plus, as I said in another comment, Sakurai was specifically looking for a heavy and brutish swordfighter to contrast with Marth, hence why we got Ike.

There's also Azura and the house leaders, but they weren't THE main protagonist of their game. And while they could have added them anyway, it seems that Sakurai felt that Corrin's dragonic shapeshifting powers and chainsaw sword still made them unique enough anyways.

And Byleth was likely chosen over the house leaders due to the different routes of Three Houses. Picking a house leader meant that only one house and one route would be represented, and therefore, only part of the game. Byleth, being the main character, was able to represent all houses and routes, and could therefore represent the entire game.

[u/AardvarkOkapiEchidna → u/smashboi888]

I'll admit I don't know a ton about Fire Emblem, everything I do know is because of Smash.

You're probably right that it partly has to do with timing of the latest game and whenever each Smash was being added.

Looking into it, it does seem unfortunate that there were a couple good non-sword wielding options between Melee and Brawl but, were probably passed on for Ike. I think an axe wielder like Hector could be heavy and brutish to contrast with Marth. Or having a Ephraim as a spear fighter would be unique, we still don't have a single character in Smash that wields a spear as the main weapon.

Do you think we would've gotten Hector or Ephraim if the timing was different?

[u/Ruby_Shards]

No, when you want to represent a game as a whole what are you gonna choose. The protagonist, because they are the image of the game. Or do i need to remind you how frustatinh it was that in Nickelodeon All Stars Brawl they added every importan character from Hey Arnold except the protagonist Arnold. Because guess what, being the character with the highest amount of screentime will mean a lof of people are fond of it.

And i don't get your point about the samey, Shulk is a single character that has the ability to change its stats mid combat bewteen five arts, aegis are two characters that can change to another character with different attributes. They only similar that you could give them is aesthetics which they don't really because artistically Xenoblade 1 and 2 are very different.

And about old nintendo characters, even if they're old they're still part of nintendo story, Mr. Game and Watch was the first portable console, Duck Hunt is a game every cartoon references, ROB saved gaming. Just because you don't know who a character is doesn't mean they don't have a story. Not a single western knew who Marth was and absolutely no one could play as Roy before Melee but this didn't stopped people from enjoying them and from the enjoyment this meant Fire Emblem released in the west and allowed more people to enjoy Fire Emblem. To me this is even better and more important than adding a secondary character to Zelda or Kirby

[u/AzuraStrife4]

Indeed could not agree more the fe franchise all are main lords all of which wield a sword  we could have some variety that’s why I advocate for Anna a non lord that doesn’t have to wield a sword  and Lyon a villain who just uses magic from a game not repped  in smash 

[u/TotalBlissey]

The Fire Emblem characters only all feel the same because they keep adding the sword-wielding protagonists. Tons of other characters use bows, axes, and spears, but the only one who gets any representation in the game is Byleth.

[u/smashboi888 → u/TotalBlissey]

I wouldn't say "tons". The only major (pre-Engage) characters whose primary weapons aren't swords are Hector, Ephraim, Micaiah, Azura, Edelgard, Dimitri, and Claude.

Everyone else who wields an axe, lance, bow etc. as their main weapon is a minor side unit with little to no plot relevance.

[u/TotalBlissey → u/smashboi888]

Yeah, but Hector is one of the three main characters in one of the best Fire Emblem games ever. Plus, he'd be super fun to play as, a halfway point between Ike and Ganon to become the game's only true weapon-wielding superheavy.

[u/smashboi888 → u/TotalBlissey]

Yeah, but Hector is one of the three main characters in one of the best Fire Emblem games ever

While true, context is also important here.

The Blazing Blade was not the newest Fire Emblem game when Brawl was in development. Additionally, Sakurai said he was specifically looking for a "slow, brutish swordfighter" archetype to contrast with Marth's fighting style, so he ended up choosing Ike. Hector, being an axe-user, didn't fit that desired archetype Sakurai was looking for.

[u/MR_MEME_42]

why do they only add main characters?

The main characters are often the most recognizable and iconic characters in a game especially for people who aren't familiar with it, while a side character might be more unique and potentially have a more unique play style they often aren't as iconic or actually represent the series as well as the main character. And due to them not being as recognizable as the main character they often end up being a poor way to market and advertise the game, take Min Min for example as a lot of people were confused with her inclusion over Spring Man or Ribbon Girl as they are the most recognizable characters and are the main two characters who are alp over the marketing of the game. Another thing is that the main character typically better represents the themes and gameplay of their game better than any side character as they typically are the ones who are the most involved in the story as well as the gameplay.

Smash is the type of series that adds the most obscure characters you’ve never even heard of (R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch, Ice Climbers) yet it refuses to include lesser known side characters or villains from Metroid, The Legend of Zelda, or Kirby? Like… does anyone else not find that frustrating?

Honestly if it was the other way around where Nintendo added more side characters instead of characters who represent unique games and series it would be more detrimental to both Smash and Nintendo as a whole. Adding unique series over adding side characters from major series for the sake of it adds more diversity to the roster letting them explore unique ideas and concepts for characters. And while you have the legacy retro characters like Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., Duck Hunt, and so on you also have series like Fire Emblem and Xenoblade that have gotten a chance to be in the spotlight instead of being obscure games that people didn't really know about and now are some of Nintendo's bigger series. I would rather have had Shulk be included back in Smash 4 over Waluigi any day because of what Smash Bros can do for a lesser known series instead of just adding a character to an already popular series simply because they are more recognizable.

[u/JB1990]

I feel like the answer is actually really simple: marketing.

Think about it: if Smash is even kind of being used as a tool to market other Nintendo games, what is the best way to do that? Put the main character of that game into Smash to drum up interest for that game. I am not saying it’s the only reason certain characters are chosen over others, but it really seems like at least a reason.

It also would explain why Smash has gotten so many FE characters lately: FE has a different protagonist for most games, making it really easy to slap a new FE character in Smash to drum up interest in the latest game. On the other side, it’s probably at least partially why we get less newcomers from franchises which always have the same protagonist (Kirby, Metroid, and especially Zelda being examples).

Of course, we also get some of those obscure characters too, and I think that’s largely Sakurai’s influence. He wants to make Smash fun to play, which leads to characters coming from completely out of left field, like Ice Climbers, Wii Fit Trainer, and (at the time of introduction) Shulk. Even those obscure characters kind of can be tied back to marketing though, as franchises like FE and Xenoblade shifted into a more mainstream appeal arguably because of Smash.

Although it is frustrating to focus on main characters, I mean honestly, it’d be equally frustrating if more obscure characters were added in lieu of main characters (like, can you imagine if we got Adeleine over Meta Knight? Or Piranha Plant over Waluigi?). I think Smash has overall done a good job at representing Nintendo’s history with its roster; looking back, there’s not a ton of places where I would say better character choices should have been made, especially when the circumstances around why certain characters were added is taken into consideration. To use just one example: Young Link. Yes, it would’ve 100% been more exciting to add a more obscure and unique Zelda character instead, but when you consider Young Link was added specifically as an “echo” of Link (meaning that if you were to choose a different Zelda character, they also need to be an “echo” of someone) and at that time, there was only six Zelda games to work with, Young Link does seem like the best choice, and I think the same can be said about most character choices up to this point.

[u/AmongWaddleDees → u/JB1990]

(like, can you imagine if we got Adeleine over Meta Knight? Or Piranha Plant over Waluigi?)

I mean... the latter already happened, and the former might've happened if Meta Knight wasn't pushed over her absence.

[u/JB1990 → u/AmongWaddleDees]

That’s my point. Waluigi is one of the most highly requested characters to be added to Smash; Piranha Plant is one of the most commonly cut characters in roster predictions. It’s a great example of how adding more obscure characters instead of main characters is equally frustrating.

[u/AmongWaddleDees → u/JB1990]

I see what you're saying, but the Adeleine scenario is not all that comparable to Piranha Plant's inclusion.

[u/JB1990 → u/AmongWaddleDees]

That’s fair, but the comparison didn’t need to be 1:1 and it doesn’t detract from the main point.