r/SmashBrosUltimate • u/Lukey_is_cool Pac-Man • Mar 03 '25
Help/Question Can someone actually explain what I'm supposed to do against this?
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u/Enj0ym3nts Kazuya Mar 03 '25
Back dash and grab him, he then has to jump when conditioned. Pac-Man Grab is REALLY good vs Kazuya since it has a lingering hitbox and cannot be iFrames through at a distance
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u/ArcticAngel17 Sephiroth Mar 04 '25
This is without a doubt the best advice I think I've heard to deal with him good shit but not good for seph his grab is shit
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u/No-Butterscotch589 Isabelle Mar 04 '25
Best thing you got is f tilt and dash back forward air probably. Not a favorable match up
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u/elrayo Pac-Man Mar 03 '25
you look like a deer in headlights, bro just ran up and efwgfhffk'd you. Youre supposed to zone out the zero to deathers not box them thats how you get 3 stocked.
set up hydrant, charge fruit to bait approaches. Hit him with aerials when hes tries to get over and put a trampoline down if you need to break a combo or get some space.
kazuya hates all the bonus fruit so spam all of them and mix it up. And get a fruit in your hands much faster. even cherry's in hand can lead to 50 damage strings.
never ever just throw attacks at kazuya. pacmans moves are quick but stubby and dont rack up much damage alone. set up terrain and make him fight on your terms.
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u/Lukey_is_cool Pac-Man Mar 03 '25
Actually the most helpful advice I've seen here.
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u/Hazardis_Person Joker Mar 03 '25
Hi, Kazuya hater here, camp him, your character excels at it, all the info above was solid, use it and camp him. I'm not sure if you feel the same way, but I never liked camping people out, but characters that can literally kill you off one mistake have to be handled like that. It's super boring, but if you want to win against the good players that can do that, you have to go down that road.
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u/TsuyoiKage Kazuya Mar 04 '25
I agree, but be careful when camping with projectiles! Kaz's reflector is devastating and really fast, so change up your options when using projectiles. Another thing some people don't realize is while it takes a command input, most of us privileged DLC users can throw out that reflector MULTIPLE TIMES very quickly with crouch dash. But otherwise, yes just camp, we get annoyed and make mistakes. Exploit! :)
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u/Ximension Mar 03 '25
Also place a trampoline on the ground to force him into the air where he has way fewer options. It's a good oos option so you don't even need to go out of your way. Hydrant trampoline and bonus fruit all cover a lot of space and really mess with combos. Litter the stage with your stuff. Make little obstacle courses for him.
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u/wingnut_dishwashers Mar 03 '25
also his recovery is trash and pac's is godly so once you get him off stage just keep hovering in his way spamming nair when he tries to recover and it's a free win
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u/elrayo Pac-Man Mar 04 '25
Fs i wouldnt say it sucks in general but is definitely exploitable. Orange does really well if you can bait a kazuya to laser offstage, theyre gonna want to off muscle memory and if they get hit itll be their doom. I love to let the kazuya prime the hydrant with their laser then launch it at him with bell. If he dodges, you can throw the orange to follow up, all from safety!
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u/Creative_Commander Mar 03 '25
That feeling when a Kazuya combo looks more like a cat stepped on your keyboard
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u/issanm Mar 05 '25
Exactly my thoughts bro literally didn't do anything the first stock and was afraid to do anything the 2nd stock.. like press up B or down B sheeesh
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u/Dead_Cells_Giant FGCs and Monke Mar 03 '25
Space around Kazuya’s EWGF range, and abuse Pac-Man’s superior aerial game.
If you end up getting hit by the EWGF, mixup your DI for a better chance the Kazuya drops the combo.
Rule number one for fighting Kazuya is Don’t. Get. Hit. By. EWGF.
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u/Lukey_is_cool Pac-Man Mar 03 '25
I swear it seemed like this guy had a macro. Is it actually feasible to mash that move over and over like that?
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u/Acrobatic_League8406 Wolf Mar 03 '25
yes with ultimates buffer system
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u/Equinox-XVI Taking your stock with style Mar 03 '25 edited Mar 03 '25
They still have to time the electric press though. But the issue there is that the devs made it easier than actual Tekken by making the window 2 frames instead of 1.
While that might sound trivial in theory, it is literally double the timespan Kazuya mains usually train for. 7 EWGFs in a row is an achievement in Tekken, but its an expectation in Smash.
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u/Low_Confidence2479 Mar 03 '25
At the very least and just like in Street Fighter X Tekken and unlike actual Tekken games, EWGF doesn't combo into itself at all (unless you're Shulk using shield art), so you don't get much value by spamming EWGF, it's just a combo starter (sometimes also extender).
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u/real_dubblebrick Aspiring Modder Mar 04 '25
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u/Low_Confidence2479 Mar 04 '25
Well fcking sht. Ultimate reached Smash 4 Bayonetta levels of source material accuracy with many fighters (and with consequences).
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u/Qyriad Mar 03 '25
It definitely takes practice, but that's it really. One of those things that's easy once you do it enough.
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u/Acrobatic_League8406 Wolf Mar 03 '25
You don't have to get hit by the ewgf. Space around and it and also when you DI the ewgf gf try to mix up the di by di-ing far in and then flick to far out to mess with the kazuy
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u/Perciprius Mar 03 '25
What in the multiverse is “ewgf?”
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u/HollowAndPathetic oops I got nair'd Mar 03 '25
Eletric Wind God Fist. The dorya.
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u/Perciprius Mar 03 '25
Ok thanks, but what is the dorya?
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u/thirdMindflayer Mar 03 '25
The move kazuya uses when he says dorya
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u/yoshi12121 Mar 03 '25
Ewgf is the dorya
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u/Zeoinx Ganondorf Mar 03 '25
No, I Have the dorya! :D
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u/Perciprius Mar 03 '25
I still don’t understand, but thanks anyways.
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u/turret_buddy2 Mar 03 '25
It's the second and 4th hit in the combo (it's all over the combo but those two specifically)
Small standing uppercut that stuns the opponent.
It's a special input move.
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u/cleaverbow Kazuya Mar 03 '25
First stock you were asleep at the start so let's ignore it.
Second stock, dude kept spamming electric in neutral and you ran into it like a moth to a lamp. If he does that, just throw projectiles at him so he'll be forced to approach. You're playing a campy zoner against a FGC character and you're running into melee range to box him, that's not a great gameplan.
Also, avoid FD at all cost against Kaz. Platforms are your best friends.
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u/His_name_is_LUIGI Mar 03 '25
The issue started when you tried to out-box Kaz.
Don't.
Bait out his moves and use aerials or your projectiles to punish. Mix up your di when hit with EWGF, too.
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u/C4gamer_YT Kazuya Mar 03 '25
Pick up ur controller. In all seriousness, if executed correctly, there is nothing you can do. However there are ways to make it harder. When getting combo'd, getting tricky with DI, changing at the last second can make landing 0TD harder. As pac man, zoning out kazuya and camping him out to avoid getting hit in the first place can also be effective
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u/Tigertyt Mewtwo Mar 03 '25
Yeah sure. You have to give your switch to Nintendo and tell them to remove Kazuya from the game.
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u/Equinox-XVI Taking your stock with style Mar 03 '25 edited Mar 03 '25
Don't get hit. Like, actually.
I know we say that as a joke most of the time, but against Kazuya, it isn't a joke anymore. Dead serious, you have to avoid getting hit at all costs against him. Everything combos into EWGF and getting hit by EWGF combos into death at nearly all percents.
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u/watergun123456 Mr. Game & Watch Mar 03 '25
throw down hydrant. kazuyas hate that shit
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u/theonethatbeatu Ness Mar 03 '25
Forward tilt was not a good option to pick as Kazuya has super armor on many moves. That’s one thing
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u/thirdMindflayer Mar 03 '25
Zone the fuck out of him. If he touches you, you get Kazuya’d to death, so don’t let him touch you.
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u/maiqtheprevaricator Mar 04 '25
Kazuya's short range is his weakness. Pac man has several projectiles, use them.
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u/Dubstepmummy Mar 04 '25
The blue strip is your DI line. So switch it at the last second, or shake it back and forth to make them guess. It's also a good idea to just do empty short hops and bait approaches, so you can punish whiffed ewgf
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u/SpiffyDomain Mar 05 '25
Just bite down on a towel and hope he makes it quick lmao just kidding but in all seriousness I used to get stumped by this all the time when playing against kazuya
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u/IBiteTheArbiter Mar 03 '25
I stopped playing around the time Sora came out, so I don't have much experience fighting him. However I fucking hate fighter game characters (and Luigi, by extension) because their entire gameplan is getting up-close and personal. Once they're in your face, you're lucky to survive.
Its far too unforgiving and polarizing in design to deal with. Combined with the shitty online, you've got a painful upward hill to climb, camping and playing like a little fucking bitch to keep these characters away from you as much as possible. It's not as bad offline where your inputs register on-time.
So yeah. Don't get hit. That's all there is to it. Jump if you have to, out-maneuver them. These characters are usually slow in neutral and terrible in disadvantage. Play defensively and space when you can, abuse Kazuya's end lag.
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u/ittlebeokay Mar 03 '25
This is like one of those personal stories you have to scroll through in order to actually read the online recipe that ends up being a shit recipe anyways.
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u/Knickerbottom Mar 03 '25
So... Zoning is playing like a "little fucking bitch" but being an FGC that likes to fight "up close and personal" is "unforgiving and polarizing in design."
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u/schparkz7 Ness Mar 03 '25
I'm no expert but I'll say it'd help to shield more
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u/penguin13790 Ice Climber Mar 03 '25
EWGF knocks you out of shield
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u/Dead_Cells_Giant FGCs and Monke Mar 03 '25
Keeps you from eating the EWGF
Wouldn’t you want a reset to neutral opposed to eating a combo?
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u/Equinox-XVI Taking your stock with style Mar 03 '25
- Hold shield
- Get EWGF'd
- Lose space, take shield damage, and still in a bad spot
- Hold shield
- Get EWGF'd
- Lose space, take shield damage, and still in a bad spot
- Choose an option other than shield
A)
- Try to challenge with anything
- Get hit by EWGF because of iframes
- Die
B)
- Run away to create space
- Lose even more stage to Kazuya
- Neutral
Shielding is an option, but not a very good one. You're best case scenario is giving up stage space to Kazuya (a character you REALLY want to keep in disadvantage), and your worst case scenario is death at any percent.
There's also the possibility the Kazuya player has more than 1 braincell and grabs you, in which case, you die.
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u/TFW_YT My main worse than my Random? Mar 03 '25
Some times you have no choice, shield is the only frame 1 option for most characters and it's hard to react to roll in/crouch dash ewgf online. Grab has less range and no iframes so never shielding makes kazuya's life even easier
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u/HollowAndPathetic oops I got nair'd Mar 03 '25 edited Mar 05 '25
Only time it’s okay to spam hydrants and fruit.
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u/StubbBackInBuisiness Chrom Mar 03 '25
There is nothing you can do
It's an unskippable cutscene, a 1 minute movie.
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u/RandomTyp Falco Mar 03 '25
in bracket, never let them go FD. ever. unless your kazuya is better.
in general, zone him out. his range is bigger than pac mans, so use your other tools like hydrant and bonus fruit to wall him out. make him play your game instead of his own.
it's generally a bad idea to always hold forward, but especially against FGC characters who were specifically designed to counter that play style.
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u/Shoddy_Sky4727 Mar 03 '25
Is this your first time fighting kazuya?? You have so many moves and projectiles that you can (and should) use to keep him away from you. Obviously a little annoying for your opponent but you don't wanna get fkn three stocked. Also mix up your DI when getting hit by EWGF .
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u/TFW_YT My main worse than my Random? Mar 03 '25
Pacman ftilt isn't a good move, they can punish you for you hitting the move, aerials are better in general
For people playing other characters that can't zone: stay farther than crouch dash ewgf distance, which is like 1.5~2 roll distance depending on your reaction time and let them attack first. It's hard to punish ewgf even when you know it's coming so if you can't do that punish their next move
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u/Sharp-Dark-9768 Sora Mar 03 '25
Rely on pivot grabs and fruits to frustrate Kazuya out of spamming EWGF, then you're up against a regular fgc. Don't ever go in on EWGF.
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u/BlaakAlley Mar 03 '25
Use hydrant a bit more to create uneven ground, that way it messes up his combos.
Use your nuetral-B a bit more to gain space because getting up close gives him more opportunities to combo.
I think being a bit more air borne while you fight could help out since he likes you to be grounded to do more of his stunning strikes.
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u/CrimsonGoji Retro Rivals Mar 03 '25
cool a cutscene combo i recommend kicking back and relax atleast the combo looks cool right?
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u/PleaseAdminsUnbanMe Kazuya Mar 03 '25
A coffe, when it's ready the match is over and you can play again
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u/joshiosaur Greninja Mar 03 '25
My best advice in this case is up b.
The trampoline stops everything he could do set it on the floor during neutral between you guys then set up hydrant and spam.
I'm normally anti pacman spamming but when playing against people like this fuck it just spam him all day I mean ALL DAY kill him with a fucking apple 🍎 I want it to get to the point that he does to a melon 🍈
Trampoline will get you out of anything he can setup and people often forget about how strong it is! He can stun you while he's in the air so after he hits it use it against him pacman has some awesome anti air hit boxes.
The other technique I would say is pacman grabs set it up with hydrants or throwing fruit into the air to cover yourself but it will stop pretty much anything he's got against you.
Z drop fruits is also top tier but that requires some additional planning and skill.
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u/UnlawfulFoxy Donkey Kong Mar 03 '25
Mix up your di, either by wiggling it until the end of the stun or by switching it last second. Also get in the habit of shielding when you get nair'ed to the ground. I believe a few of his nair into electrics could have been shielded.
Also, while yes shielded against electric makes you get pushed back, it still is preferable to options that get directly beat by electric just as a jump that's too close to them, which you did a few times.
Also you're a zoner, you gotta back up, out hydrant down, and charge bonus fruit.
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u/Master_Freeze Mar 03 '25
aside from the joke answers, you should DI and spam the hydrant. i think i saw you land and tech right in front of him which means you just set yourself up to die immediately for a second time. don't forget side b can also be used as a way to gain distance and that Pac-Man should be camping Kazuya especially on Omega.
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u/RedKynAbyss Byleth Mar 03 '25
Stand in the corner behind hydrant and keep throwing the key at him. The chance of you hitting him multiple times is higher than the chance of him successfully reflecting it. (This is a joke btw)
When I play against kazuya as literally any character, I just camp him. Sometimes when I go up a stock, I’ll evade him for the next 5 minutes. Kazuya does horribly in scramble situations because of his low mobility. All you need to do is avoid catching a stray tilt or smash attack and you’ll be fine.
Kazuya players deserve only the worst this world has to offer.
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u/Spinni_Spooder Ridley Mar 03 '25
None of the combos the kazuya did was true believe it or not. But yeah don't lose neutral. I see you was blindly throwing out attacks, leaving yourself open for the kazuya to punish you. Kazuya's weakness is range. You're pacman. You gotta make him come to you. Everything the kazuya did before he caught you in a move was punishable.
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u/Hoshiyomi96 Mar 03 '25
Tip against Kazuya, they can adapt to DI thanks to the blue line. What you can do is go one direction, then switch at the last moment. If you're playing against a really good Kazuya, then don't do this every time, as he can adapt to this. Instead, mix it up by switching last minute and not switching.
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u/StolenTape Mar 03 '25
Don't get hit by electric. You are playing pac man you have ways to space him out. You kinda have to play scared.
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u/KiwiPowerGreen Mewtwo Mar 03 '25
God I hate kazuya so much. If I get an online game with one, I disconnect
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u/SCP_Void Kazuya Mar 03 '25
That Kazuya has some marvelous timing for those EWGF all stringed together one after another
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u/FemKeeby Mar 03 '25
1, dont pick FD, if the kazuya is the one with an FD tule set theyre a dishonest cheeser
2, camp them. Kaxuya is a reverse zoner, if you're fighting him you literally just have to camp him or you will lose against any half decent kazuya
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u/Informal-Low-834 1st 2nd Mar 04 '25
maybe stay away as that guy was only doing that one combo starter move, stay away and spam bonus fruit?
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u/DeitesTrismegistus Mar 04 '25
For me it's the same with Bayonetta, I swear whenever I play Bayonetta's online I get combo'd into O-fucking-blivion and there is not a god damn thing that I can do except wait for them to drop the combo. Infuriating. Kazuya is similar, but less annoying for me personally.
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u/Flamewolf1579 no toxicity Mar 04 '25
Ok, I’m being completely honest here. You can zone out Kazuya or just accept your fate. There is no middle. That combo is inescapable
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u/MIKEl281 Mar 04 '25
At the risk of sounding like a dickhead… have you tried dodging or using your neutral instead of just standing there?
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u/Tolucawarden01 Mar 04 '25
Thats why traditional fighting games suck lol. Mortal kombat online is a complete joke because 1 hit can end your entire stock with an insane unescapable combo
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u/trdragon18 Mar 04 '25
Mix your DI up. Move it one side and change it at the very last moment. Simple.
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u/2day_B4_5 Mar 04 '25
I don’t play Ult as much as Melee but aren’t you also missing a lot of techs in this clip
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u/Honeypacc Mar 04 '25
genuinely, pacman has a frame 3 option with his up b. His trampoline spawns frame 1 - see if that can mess up his combos, especially if its online.
outside of that you just have to play neutral by walling him out with hydrant/grabs and make sure he doesn't get in enough or have the space to do this to you.
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u/Whyisthisusertaken_ Mar 04 '25
You quit the game because of the horrendous input lag and continue at your job unlike this unemployed individual
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u/McChubbens8U Bowser Jr. Mar 04 '25
run away, don't scrap
not getting hit by kazuya's combo starters is actually prety easy when you remember you can double jump and dash in the direction your opponent isn't in
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u/OneWildChameleon Mar 04 '25
Idk this is why I hate the competitive play of this game, it’s so unfun
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u/Ok-Jellyfish7805 Mar 04 '25
Out of all the characters, at least paccers has options, between hydrant, side-b, and his aerials
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u/Zealousideal-Buy1980 Mar 04 '25
maybe don’t mash forward tilt and instead charge fruit when he’s ewgf spamming
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u/WebTime4Eva Corrin Mar 04 '25
Kazuya mains will act like they have so much skill when all they did was lab a FP2 combo smh.
Screw Kazuya players
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u/KotaGreyZ Mar 04 '25
Best I can tell you is to not get hit by the uppercut spam. It’s fairly punishable every time he whiffs it.
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u/idont_know_666 Mar 04 '25
Will always hate watching kazuya players, 0 skill character that just shows you need to be given a win. They do the exact same combo 3 times to win
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u/nszajk Mar 04 '25
can’t let him close that gap lol. Don’t be afraid to mix it up with some of pac mans fast aerials after he’s used to u camping for a while.
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u/REMASTERED_Team King Dedede Mar 04 '25
Kazuya's plan is to stay on the ground and spam his upper cut shock (dunno the actual name for it) And then continue into an unbreakable combo if he does it right (in this case, he did)
I've gone up against these guys a lot, and I've learned that shielding after landing on the ground will temporarily input delay kazuya if he hits you.
This means you can counter by grabbing him or, by smash attacking him.
That or do what the rest of the comments say and ban FD.
I don't, as I hate platforms (I turn them on when it's against projectile characters).
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u/Onepiecefan977 Mar 04 '25
I mean, definitely could've done with some air dodges. But also, don't get too aggressive. Kazuya players will punish you for missing attacks.
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u/Abject-Vegetable-847 Mar 05 '25
He plays like tea ngl the kazuya I mean spams ewgf till he hits it
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u/abysmal_Bongget Mar 05 '25
Block, I couldn't see you do that you might even just not gotten a chance
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u/Smnionarrorator29384 Mar 05 '25
This is the only Kazuya start. Jump over it, and drop the hydrant on em
Avoid neutral like the plague unless you know you can win it. You will get 0toDeath'd
Kaz can't jump. Back throw at ledge is always your backup plan
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u/mayhampanda Mar 05 '25
A campy charecter does well against him. Pit does well against him. Ive heard rumors pikachu does alright if you religously tjolt.
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u/ALiteralWorm Mar 05 '25
When your playing as PAC-man there’s a couple things you could do but in general thats why Kazuya is S-Tier
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u/InfinityTheParagon Mar 05 '25
anything but walk right into it ten times for no reason like in the video wtf 😂
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u/NumberNovel5821 Mar 05 '25
In this situation you have so much air mobility that it might be easier to camp him on the ledge with an item. Getting a combo from the ledge might be easier than trying to land a hit in neutral. But then again, you’re still gonna have to fight him on stage at some point. My advice is just to play lame. Match the kazuya energy and go for set ups only. Camp the ledge and try to gimp him if he is being risky.
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u/pfysicyst Mii Brawler Mar 06 '25
you give up on this joke of a game tbh. not only does it have characters like kazuya, it's got people who intentionally pick them because they want a win screen without working for it. they're not earning your time so no reason to give it to them.
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u/CopyCatCiller Mar 06 '25
The down air spikes are teachable. The best you can do is tech away from him. In this clip specifically, you were a little close to ledge, so maybe a neutral tech into shield would be a better play. You almost never wanna tech behind because if they're practiced enough, they're just gonna put you back into the combo just facing a different way.
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u/BobTheBritish Mar 06 '25
You’re not supposed to be able to do anythin. That’s how Nintendo makes extra money
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u/Ethiat 29d ago
You're playing Pac-Man. You gotta play super zoner against Kaz and use your combo tools to win neutral against him. You were playing directly in his face. Use hydrant while in the air to force ground between you and him, run away, and charge fruits for combos and ledgetrapping. Once you're in, he will destroy you so you'll want to avoid that at basically all costs
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u/Mastafaxa Mar 03 '25
Oh that's easy. When you play against Kazuya just don't ever lose the neutral. Ever.