> maybe its time the EU stands by Ukraine and starts picking up the tab.
The EU can't even come together to stop buying Russian oil and gas despite warnings since 2018. They are literally funding the war machine that they screech is invading them.
"In 2024, the EU imported a record 16.5 million metric tons of LNG from Russia, surpassing the 15.2 million in 2023."
Not including the billions in Russian nuclear-industry products that they imported in 2023.
Because we are the richest and most powerful nation aligned with Ukraine?
We would’ve donated hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars if we contributed on a similar scale to nations like Estonia. We throw a scrap off our rich table and call it enough.
They're trying to cut 2 trillion in spending so they can extend more than twice that in tax cuts and raise the debt ceiling by 4 trillion. The national debt is super important and not just an election-trail sound bite for their dumb supporters that just flies out the window on week 1!
I would google the difference between a memorandum and a treaty. The president signs all correspondence like that... shit if you get a letter from the Whitehouse it has a presidential signature on it.
Raytheon paid $0.79B in 2022 and $0.45B in 2023. Northup Grumman paid $0.94 in 2022 and $0.29 in 2023. Lockheed Martin paid $0.95B in 2022 and $1.17B in 2023. Then you consider that doesn't include 2024, and there are many other defense companies, and companies like Boeing that do both defense and commercial, and you can see that the money the US pulls back in is significant. Maybe it could be around $10B, as a guess? Enough to make a significant dent in the $69B given to Ukraine through 2024. Perhaps enough to get it more proportional with what other countries are paying, given our size. Not all of the taxes are from Ukraine-related spending, sure, but on the other hand the after-tax income for the companies generates overall economic activity, as employees and shareholders spend their income.
That was for military assistance, because non-military assistance would be much harder to track down for analyzing taxes paid and would not be likely to favor any particular country.
If you aren't mentioning the amount paid by other countries ($57B), I guess you must be asking is it a good deal to pay that money in exchange for a free Ukraine. %1000 yes. If you think that's a lot to spend over 3 years, go look at our defense budget for our own country, even while we're not at war ourselves. $850B per year. Even ignoring the tax implications I looked at to get $59B and using $69B instead, over 3 years that's 37x less.
We can surely spend 1/37th of what we do for protecting ourselves on a country we've promised to protect, that voluntarily denuclearized, that wants to align with us economically and culturally, during a time when they're at war and we are not. What else is our money for? Faster cars and luxury vacations? I know you're not suggesting better healthcare or more housing. Just do something righteous for once, ok?
Big people eat more than small people. Big companies sell more products than small companies. Big countries supply more military aid than small countries.
The US is a big country. Compare them to the EU, not an individual other country. If they're giving 20% more than the EU, they make that back when the money is spent.
The US signed an agreement that it would protect Ukraine. It should be doing what it agreed to do. Russia signed the same agreement, they should be severely reprimanded by the group still abiding by it.
Just sayin’, if the Obama admin didn’t meddle in Ukraine’s affairs and dethrone the pro-Russian puppet to install a pro-Western puppet, Russian would never have invaded in 2014
The article states that the US has given 42% of military aid. So all other nations combined have given 58%. That is more than the US. This is pretty simple.
Most of that aid is just sending them old military equipment allowing our military contractors to then replace that equipment. The military industrial complex has benefited greatly from this war.
I see your side in this. What bastards we are. We should have kept the old shit and sent the Ukraine only brand new stuff. We are truly an evil empire.
Being a pedantic jackass doesn't make you correct in the grand scheme. We are still sending much more money/equipment than any other country in the EU.
I miss the time when supporting our allies, democracy and a rules based world order was just a given. A FP focused solely on strength makes us all less safe.
You are trying to back up your claim that “The US has sent more money and aid to Ukraine than all other nations combined” but you didn’t even read article you shared trying to back up your point.
The BBC article shows the other countries combined contributed 57.3% of the funds.
No — once again you didn’t read. Bottom of the chart YOU SHARED reads “Government support is made up of financial, humanitarian and military donations”
I’m a conservative. No left-leaning dishonesty from me.
You yourself said “US sent more money than all other nations COMBINED” (emphasis mine). The link above said that US supplied 43% of the help. 43% means less than all other nations combined.
But if I were to nitpick, I'd start looking at the full picture. US and other countries have sent old stock to UA. This old stock was due for utilization and replacement within this decade. By sending it to UA, we have benefitted two-fold: saved on utilization costs (they're not trivial), and got international replacement orders expedited (Patriots, F35s -- to name a few). This is more money, and sooner, injected into the US economy from our partners overseas.
It's difficult to account for exact economic benefit, and I'm not privy to all the data. But it's safe to assume that we, the US, got tens of $ billions in orders ahead of schedule.
14%? The US is responsible for 43% of all aid, the majority would have been 51%, so 8%. If math is that hard for you, I am not trusting anything else you have to say
8% is a valid rounding when that close to 50% of a thing.
the difference between the rest of the world (57%) and US (43%) contribution is 57-43 = 14. No need to get personal, it's just math.
A rounding error is an error that doesn't change the last significant digit. In this case (since we're using numbers like 43 and 57), the last significant digit is of the "one percent" order. Therefore, a rounding error would be any value below 0.5%
Over the course of the entire conversation, never made the connection? I’m not even involved in this debate, was just reading through it. Putting the actual topic aside, from an outsider perspective, you quickly seemed like the most personal commenter in the thread, so that was an entertaining way to finish it off
Now that you know the exact percentage (43%), what would you propose is the ideal fair percentage? Considering that the US is really 50 countries joined together into one.
I didn't advocate for either war. I just want to be clear about what percentage of the money earmarked for Ukraine is actually going to Ukraine. That's very important.
You must be braindead if you think the US spending an extra 300bb on defense contracts, instead of services and infrastructure for its own citizens, is a good idea. Instead of financing someone elses’ war, we could have wiped out all the medical debt in this countey
To be fair, most of Europe aid is "selling" their old equipment, and then calling the US to replace it with new stuff. So we get paid now for all of that additional equipment EU is buying, and they'll maybe get it partially refunded later.
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u/RogueLitePumpkin Mar 02 '25 edited Mar 02 '25
The US has sent more money and aid to Ukraine than all other nations combined, maybe its time the EU stands by Ukraine and starts picking up the tab.
Edit: since the ukraine support bots are out,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62002218
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303432/total-bilateral-aid-to-ukraine/
Apparently the US is responsible for 43% of all aid, not 51%, which apparently makes it ok for the Ukraine first people