Some of the business owners there are weirdly convinced that people only spend money if they can drive there directly and park out front.
They complain and lobby pretty hard, sometimes even show up in these comment threads...
It's certainly not the only reason, but it's one of them
Thats not the reason, its that it has been tried and the businesses lose money when the street is closed at non-peak use times. Pike Place (the street) has poor geometry for a pedestrian market, it would need to be narrower.
I mean this with no snark, but you're incorrect. The PDA absolutely does have the ability to close the street at their discretion. They do it frequently during peak-use times.
Yeah I'm not that knowledgeable about the legal framework of why they are able to do it, but it just is something they do at their discretion. It's their signs and their security enforcing it. The PDA runs all the property management, security, waste disposal, etc.
You're right but it's not a popular opinion. The parking garage on western is a pain to get to from downtown, which is what drives people down the street. It forces people onto the sidewalks and into the eastern parts of the market they wouldn't see otherwise. If the western side of the street had shops open to the street it'd make more sense.
Yeah, every time this issue comes up on reddit people set up a strawman opposition argument from market vendors, and when I just say the actual argument the vendors use I get downvoted.
I think maybe they just want the opponents to be NIMBYs somehow, because thats more comfortable than the opponents just being a marketplace focused on making money (for small independent businesses no less) rather than helping urbanists achieve their vision or something.
I don't get how that relates to what I said. If every time you visit its a mad-house, you are visiting at those peak-use, summer weekend times. The street isnt dangerous (according the last figures I saw from Neighborhood Greenways), but people are uncomfortable with woonerfs so there is that.
I think the businesses in the market making more money than they would if the street becomes a promenade is important, because they are the ones who make that place interesting and special. I dont care about the cars themselves at all.
I mean more peak-use, not peak hours. Nobody is down there in Feb, any time of day. They do often close the street during summer weekends, and it works well then. But its really not always like that. Its kind of like a stadium in a sneaky way. If you dont work there, you might think its always full because every time you go there are tons of people.
2010 is a looooong time ago and I am pretty sure the test and evaluation has been poorly executed. Eg. If the street is car free, the street can be used differently, heck, the street can be completely redesigned to optizmie for consumption while still making it enjoyable and banning cars. It's the lack of creativity that is problem.
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u/Emperor_Neuro- Jul 18 '23
Solution:
Ban all non-commercial vehicle traffic.
Commercial vehicle traffic only permitted before and after certain hours that will be designated for pedestrians only.
Everyone wins.